Protein

tigersword

Depends on goals. For a sedentary person maintaining weight, roughly 0.5 g/lb of total body weight is all that's required. For someone that's more active and trying to maintain lean mass during weight loss or muscle building I personally go with 1 g/lb of lean body mass.

going of what you have said there, im 241lb 22% body fat i dont think i dont think hitting 300g is a problem ; )

Based on 1 gram per pound of lbm, your goal would be 187. 300 is fine if you prefer, but probably way more than you need.

Matt_Wild

i try and hit 300 gram of protein a day, but im a body builder and need high levels of protein, any protein that is not used by your body will just be passed, no need to worry

lol

protein doesnt build muscle..calories and exercise does. this is called 'bro-science'

Of course protein builds muscle. I honestly cannot believe someone could be as daft as to post this. In fact, without protein it is impossible to build muscle since we are a human body made of amino acids - protein. We are amino acid based life forms. Our organs, finger nails, hair - everything, is made of protein, amino acids.

It is the only nutrient that can build muscle. Without the carbs and fats available in smaller amounts, you will struggle to put on mass and also for the ATP process to aid protein synthesis into muscle but don't be silly - this ain't bro science, its scientific fact.

Either that or the 600g+ of protein I usually take in is a waste.

Matt_Wild

Depends on goals. For a sedentary person maintaining weight, roughly 0.5 g/lb of total body weight is all that's required. For someone that's more active and trying to maintain lean mass during weight loss or muscle building I personally go with 1 g/lb of lean body mass.

going of what you have said there, im 241lb 22% body fat i dont think i dont think hitting 300g is a problem ; )

Based on 1 gram per pound of lbm, your goal would be 187. 300 is fine if you prefer, but probably way more than you need.

A body builder needs much more than 1g/lb of lbm. Arguably 1.5-2g/lb of body weight.

kcragg

I am over on protein every day. I think the protein settings on MFP are too low. Protein is good!

tigersword

i try and hit 300 gram of protein a day, but im a body builder and need high levels of protein, any protein that is not used by your body will just be passed, no need to worry

lol

protein doesnt build muscle..calories and exercise does. this is called 'bro-science'

Of course protein builds muscle. I honestly cannot believe someone could be as daft as to post this. In fact, without protein it is impossible to build muscle since we are a human body made of amino acids - protein. We are amino acid based life forms. Our organs, finger nails, hair - everything, is made of protein, amino acids.

It is the only nutrient that can build muscle. Without the carbs and fats available in smaller amounts, you will struggle to put on mass and also for the ATP process to aid protein synthesis into muscle but don't be silly - this ain't bro science, its scientific fact.

Either that or the 600g+ of protein I usually take in is a waste.

Mostly a waste, I would guess. It's also scientific fact that your body manufactures the majority of the protein it needs. I have yet to find real scientific support that any body building regimen requires a ridiculous level of protein to achieve, while I have been on body building websites that have given out the 1 gram per pound of lean body mass recommendation for mass gain. I don't know of anybody anywhere actually recommending any amount of protein anywhere near 600 grams, or even half that. Most scientists and doctors would consider that toxic levels of intake, honestly, unless you weigh 450 pounds or so.

Matt_Wild

Mostly a waste, I would guess. It's also scientific fact that your body manufactures the majority of the protein it needs. I have yet to find real scientific support that any body building regimen requires a ridiculous level of protein to achieve, while I have been on body building websites that have given out the 1 gram per pound of lean body mass recommendation for mass gain. I don't know of anybody anywhere actually recommending any amount of protein anywhere near 600 grams, or even half that. Most scientists and doctors would consider that toxic levels of intake, honestly, unless you weigh 450 pounds or so.

Clearly I'm wasting it all.

You are talking trash. Look up essential amino acids. You cannot make muscle without digesting muscle. You're body may recycle its own but that will only allow you to stay at the existing weight you are and eventually smaller.

I know some of the best body building minds in the UK, I work for one of the biggest body building brands in the world and yet you've read a website that tells you 1g per lb is enough. I coach dozens of people to contest shape. I know my beans.

PLEASE also provide me with ONE item of scientific proof about toxic levels of protein? (see mine below).

Other than you're gut instinct , can you tell me where you gained the information other than reading forums and websites? Because it is on the internet, does not make it true.

Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?


Source


Department of Physiological Chemistry, Institute of Physical Education and Kinesiotherapy, Free University of Brussels, Belgium.


Abstract


Excess protein and amino acid intake have been recognized as hazardous potential implications for kidney function, leading to progressive impairment of this organ. It has been suggested in the literature, without clear evidence, that high protein intake by athletes has no harmful consequences on renal function. This study investigated body-builders (BB) and other well-trained athletes (OA) with high and medium protein intake, respectively, in order to shed light on this issue. The athletes underwent a 7-day nutrition record analysis as well as blood sample and urine collection to determine the potential renal consequences of a high protein intake. The data revealed that despite higher plasma concentration of uric acid and calcium, Group BB had renal clearances of creatinine, urea, and albumin that were within the normal range. The nitrogen balance for both groups became positive when daily protein intake exceeded 1.26 g.kg but there were no correlations between protein intake and creatinine clearance, albumin excretion rate, and calcium excretion rate. To conclude, it appears that protein intake under 2. 8 g.kg does not impair renal function in well-trained athletes as indicated by the measures of renal function used in this study


PMID: 10722779 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


AND ALSO


They concluded that a protective effect of high-casein diet against CsA-induced proximal tubular damage was observed in Sprague–Dawley rats. Lacroix et al. studied the effects of a very-high-protein diet in rats over a period of 6 months. Forty eight Wistar rats received either a normal-protein diet (14% protein) or a very-high-protein diet (50% protein). No nephrocalcinosis, no area of collagenous sclerosis, and no hypercellularity were detectable. Also, endothelial and mesangial cells were normal and so were surrounding tubules.



Pons M, Plante I, LeBrun M et al. Protein-rich diet attenuates cyclosporin A-induced renal tubular damage in rats. J Renal Nutr 2003; 13: 84–92

Sidesteal

A body builder needs much more than 1g/lb of lbm. Arguably 1.5-2g/lb of body weight.

1g/lb LBM is what is typically recommended as a minimum for non drug using bodybuilders. Keep in mind, that's a minimum. If someone is using dat-dere celltech then I could see a much higher dosage.

Lyle McDonald typically recommends 1.5g/lb lean mass.

tigersword

What about essential amino acids do I need to look up? The fact that there are 9 of them, and that your body can manufacture the other 13 amino acids needed for muscle building and tissue repair without any protein consumption at all?

As for too much being detrimental, here's a few things to read.

http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=251

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15532008.

http://journals.humankinetics.com/ijsnem-back-issues/IJSNEMVolume16Issue2April/AReviewofIssuesofDietaryProteinIntakeinHumans

As for where I got my numbers from, these articles, plus Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald's recommendations.

Lyle McDonald typically recommends 1.5g/lb lean mass.

Which is why I made the comment of 600 grams of protein being fine if you weigh 450 pounds to the guy who said he eats 600g.

andrejjorje

Wrong interpretation. Protein do build muscles. That's why they are called building blocks amino acids. Yes it needs conditions like exercise and generally speaking physical activity but this one of its role.

i try and hit 300 gram of protein a day, but im a body builder and need high levels of protein, any protein that is not used by your body will just be passed, no need to worry

lol

protein doesnt build muscle..calories and exercise does. this is called 'bro-science'

choirgirl1130

the macro goals on mfp are low on protein. if you've ever heard of "the zone" it's goals are 40% carb, 30% fat, 30% pro. it will help you moderate your carbs and even out your blood sugar levels from you home page click goal tab>scroll down and click change goals> choose custom options> then change your macro goals to 40% carb, 30% fat, 30% protein>click save changes. this will assist you in choosing foods throughout the day to help meet those goals. be sure to also include your fiber intake on your daily goals. it is important to hit your fiber goal too, as it will help you feel full throughout the day and keep your digestive sys from being sluggish due to higher protein intake
best wishes to you on your journey!

AnarchoGen

A body builder needs much more than 1g/lb of lbm. Arguably 1.5-2g/lb of body weight.

1g/lb LBM is what is typically recommended as a minimum for non drug using bodybuilders. Keep in mind, that's a minimum. If someone is using dat-dere celltech then I could see a much higher dosage.

Lyle McDonald typically recommends 1.5g/lb lean mass.

I'd take the advice of someone who has a real profile pic, who has results to show.

Sidesteal

Edit: nvm.

JenAiMarres

At 122 lbs..I strive to get in about 120ish grams of protein a day... Mfp protein goals are way too low...change your goals in your settings...good luck with your journey!

christinac1011

i always go over protein its what eats the fat away i even purposely add protein powder shakes the nutrients in it is what our bodys need especially on low cal diets worry more about sugar and carbs

JacksMom12

i always go over protein its what eats the fat away

Now, THAT is broscience.

MMarvelous

Are you using the MFP default protein settings? If so they are low. What kind of workout are you doing?

blondejillie

@IrishBlue62....bet you had no idea what a Cr@pstorm you would start with the bodybuilders in this thread. :sad:

kardsharp

Change your settings. Protein is ridiculously low on here. I changed mine right away.

How do you change them and how do you know what to change them too?

Matt_Wild

YOU said that you can grow with just calories. This isn't remotely true. You even just admitted there are 9 amino acids that the body cannot produce that it needs for muscle growth, Leucine esp.

Whilst my 600g protein is excessive for most (and I never said everyone should follow it), I know my body and I know what I need to make it grow. I could take in more carbs or fats but I'd rather have too much protein than not enough. Put it this way I've trained for 6 years and been sponsored now for 2 years - what I do, works which real people in the real world see and agree and this is me - http://gasparinutrition.co.uk/195.html

And I know from my own empirical results, what makes my body grow AND i've repeated it with clients and made them grow and cut them to show standard. I have regular blood tests with my Dr to ensure constant good health and my kidneys come back with results that exceed flow thro rates they can measure - it is unaffected by my protein consumption.

In terms of growth you need training to create the micro tears for your body to repair and this repair is done thro the mTOR signaling via protein, insulin and growth factors and will be impaired by energy deficiency (from your over all diet). mTOR plays key roles in cell physiology. mTOR regulates numerous components involved in protein synthesis, including initiation and elongation factors, and the biogenesis of ribosomes themselves.

As for your journals...

http://journals.humankinetics.com/ijsnem-back-issues/IJSNEMVolume16Issue2April/AReviewofIssuesofDietaryProteinIntakeinHumans - no study citied, no test subjects available and a lot "MAY". Far from conclusive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15532008. - was a 4 day study.

http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=251 - nearly every claim is unsubstantiated and indeed shown in the study I brought to the table to be wrong.


I cannot however be bothered to argue any more with someone who clearly has read a lot and thinks he understands it all so feels he can dish out a lot of bad advice. Ciao!

Matt_Wild

As for proof of what I say I would cite the guys I train:

Before and after



Before and after



I have loads more. What I do, works.

tigersword

I can do N=1 examples, too! You know who got results eating HALF the protein you say you eat?

This guy. Maybe you've heard of him.


You said yourself that without enough energy, your body won't grow. Eating those high levels of protein can cause issues, and even if it doesn't, at least half of what you're eating is being burned for energy, and not muscle growth or repair . Hence, wasted.