Snickers diet?
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OP, the basic argument you are making is a valid one. It's the old "is a calorie a calorie?" argument which Lyle McDonald discusses in detail here.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html
If you want to look into the science of nutrition you can't do any better than that site, every article is a gem.
Nothing wrong with the odd Snickers bar (apart from the trace of trans fats which have been shown in many studies to have some links to certain cancers and chd). The big physiological problem with trying to lose weight while eating too many of such foods is that the high carb and refined sugar content spikes your blood glucose which in short term leads to more hunger and cravings and in the long term can lead to insulin resistance and diabetes.0 -
fat is not the prefered fuel of the body if you have buggered up your metabolism through dieting, especially if you are near to your goal weight. your body adapts to survive and would rather burn muscle - than fat stores that are hard to access - when there is a big calorie deficit. you have to put fat into your body to encourage it to use your fat stores.
if stored fat was the preferred fuel the weight would be dropping off us all and we wouldn't need advice
Every time you BREATHE you're using fat as energy. What runs all the processes in the body, breaking bonds, transporting vitamins and minerals... etc... most energy in the body comes from fat. There are a few organs that run on glucose, the brain being one of them.
The issue with using protein as energy, is due to intensity, or "lack of protein" your body will use amino acids when supplies are short. If you're not consuming enough protein amino acids from the muscle will be used to repair vital organs, and yes converted to glucose( IN HIGH INTENSITY SITUATIONS), such as weight lifting.
Sorry, but no...fat is not the body's preferred source of energy. It's actually the food type the body least prefers...carbs and proteins are much more efficient for the body to break down to a usable form (glycogen) and use for energy.
Stored fat is there as a means of storage so if you're ever in a starvation type situation you don't drop dead. The body doesn't like using these stores if it doesn't have to.
It's favorite energy source are carbohydrates. They're simple enough to break down ( a whole process involving ATP to ADP).
What don't you guys understand??? FAT produces the most ATP per molecule... Anyone who is semi educated in metabolic pathways would tell you this. A good example is low intensity exercise and high intensity exercise. At low intensity, what is the energy source mostly used? What is the "Fat burning zone?" low intensity.... As intensity increases, the metabolic pathway changes, to a glucose based system. What does "Aerobic even mean?" with oxygen, you burn most fat in your aerobic zone.
Aerobic is based on oxygen and the kreb cycle. Uses Fatty acids, and O2(oxygen) to make pyruvic acid, which is then converted to CO2 and H2O...
Glucose is used in the anaerobic system.... If you're sitting at your desk, or just watching tv laying in bed, are you in a anaerobic state? NO... you're aerobic, burning fat through the kreb cycle.
Thank you! It cracks me up when people think they have the info from little snippits. Glad to hear from someone who has actually studied this.
Why do I believe this guy? Because I am studying nutrition and everything he says here is like quoting from my book. True story.
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It's the same reason there is no magic pill or slop in a box (just add water) that can replace your whole diet. There is a vast amount of things that we don't know about how are foods affect our bodies.
Can you survive on your snickers diet? Probably Will you thrive on a snickers diet? Magic 8 ball says "outlook not so good"0 -
I know what its like to struggle with my body (the same way some people struggle with satire)
hehehe0 -
Please explain.I don't understand exactly where my motivation is to change my tasty tasty lifestyle?
You're cutting maybe 10-15 years off your life. If you want to see your grandkids you need to get real. That's it. You can be thin even if you eat nothing but the Snickers. But you'll have high medical bills and die young.
As long as I take a multivitamin I am good.
:laugh: :flowerforyou:0 -
I just cancelled my contract with my trainer, ate a personal size pizza, and am currently chewing a full pack of Mentos juice blast gum. I'm feeling sexy right now :laugh:0
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What don't you guys understand??? FAT produces the most ATP per molecule... Anyone who is semi educated in metabolic pathways would tell you this. A good example is low intensity exercise and high intensity exercise. At low intensity, what is the energy source mostly used? What is the "Fat burning zone?" low intensity.... As intensity increases, the metabolic pathway changes, to a glucose based system. What does "Aerobic even mean?" with oxygen, you burn most fat in your aerobic zone.
Aerobic is based on oxygen and the kreb cycle. Uses Fatty acids, and O2(oxygen) to make pyruvic acid, which is then converted to CO2 and H2O...
Glucose is used in the anaerobic system.... If you're sitting at your desk, or just watching tv laying in bed, are you in a anaerobic state? NO... you're aerobic, burning fat through the kreb cycle.
Thank you! It cracks me up when people think they have the info from little snippits. Glad to hear from someone who has actually studied this.
Why do I believe this guy? Because I am studying nutrition and everything he says here is like quoting from my book. True story.
OK after studying for my masters in nutrition for the last few years, and doing so much research my eyes hurt on nutrition and metabolism,
I'll explain why while all his facts are right, his overall conclusion is inaccurate.
Bear with me as this becomes super technical.
For a better understanding google the fed-fast cycle and skip over the really short explanations and go for the medical texts on it as they will give a much more in depth reasoning of why FAT is not the preferred fuel source of a person who is feeding regularly (whether in a deficit or not).
The human body has multiple metabolic pathways to aerobic respiration and ATP production. The main ones are (in order of preference) glycosis, aerobic respiration, the Krebs cycle (or citric acid cycle, or tricarboxylic acid cycle), and Oxidative phosphorylation. There are more but these are the main forms of energy generation that the body uses.
Because of many complex chemical processes in the body, glucose is created mainly in the liver from other saccharides and delivered throughout the body via the blood stream, glucose is taken up by cells and is used by almost all cells in the body, most aerobically, but some have no mechanism for aerobic respiration (such as red blood cells and cells in the central nervous system) and must be used as they are received and cannot be converted to glycogen for later use.
Because of the antagonistic properties of insulin against lipolysis (the process of releasing triglycerides from fat cells for energy use as free fatty acids in the body), when the body is fed a meal including carbohydrates in any significant quantities, blood sugar levels rise rapidly and stay high for about 3 to 4 hours, during this time, insulin levels block the homeostatic release of triglycerides into the blood, keeping free fatty acid levels low, and allowing for the conversion of extra glucose into triglycerides (mainly in the liver), which stimulates adipocyte(fat cell) uptake of the triglycerides, thus increasing fat storage. After the fed state is over and insulin and blood sugar levels drop, (called the post-absorptive state), the body no longer has excess glucose in the blood, this triggers hormonal responses and the amount of fat being used as energy rises, unfortunately, because muscle cells need glucose and will not release it to overall body consumption, certain hormones are released and will counteract some of the fat use (epinephrine and neoepinephrine), these hormones stimulate glycongenolysis (the conversion of glycogen to glucose for energy production in a cell) and the body begins to utilize stored glycogen in cells.
As to the energy use of FFA's (Free Fatty Acids) vs glucose, it is true that triglyceride conversion produces about twice as much energy as does glucose, but unfortunately, in humans, the process needed to do this is much more involved and requires more steps to complete (please read Fatty Acid Metabolism, and do some research into the chemical reactions in the body during the Early Fasting State) than does the conversion of glucose to energy, therefore when glucose and fat are both in good supply, the body will use more glucose for energy than it will fat, while there's no "all-or-nothing" principle in cells that participate in normal aerobic respiration, the process that is given precedence in the cell (and more specifically in mitochondria) is glucose conversion to ATP molecules and AMP which will kick off other processes (such as the krebs cycle, utilizing some of the FFA's)
The short of it is, the body prefers glucose to fats for energy except for, and unless there isn't enough glucose being taken in to allow for it. Semi-educated people may not get this, but those of us who've studied this field for years, and have done research and have lived it as professionals, know better.
Please note that this explanation is NOT about what happens during aerobic exercise, the system changes then, different hormones are released, and by necessity (see my part about glucose availability above) FFA's are used in conjunction with, and to a point more than, glucose for energy.
Since none of this is opinion, and all of it is well documented fact, I'm not going to have a debate about it. If' you'd like to learn more, please research the Fed-Fast state, Human Metabolic Pathways, and metabolic homeostasis.
sorry for the long, drawn out reply.
-SHBoss16730 -
well, it's as much about how LONG the body takes to digest food as it is about what kind of food it is. By that I mean, things that are highly processed are easy to break down in the body, which means all the nutrients are transfered to the body in a very rapid progression, besides it being turned into fat it spikes the blood sugar which, if done regularly can lead to insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. Foods with complex carbohydrates need their bonds broken before the polysaccharides can be turned into glucose.
So that's the first problem you have to understand.
second, vitamin pills aren't broken down in the body the same way food is, so receiving your micro-nutrients all via vitamins might keep you alive, but it's not how the body was designed to work, it's far less efficient, and will eventually cause long term deficiencies, it may take years for these problems to manifest, but it will happen.
the third part is about fat itself.
even though fat is a fuel source, it's not the one the body likes to use, the body likes glucose, and will always try to use that first for most things, eating a lot of highly processed food increases fat stores, which causes the body chemistry to change and ultimately leads to health problems (such as the above mentioned diabetes for example, among others).
these are some top of my head answers to your questions.
hope they help clear it up for you.
Insulin spikes don't cause insulin resistance. Excess body fat in the blood stream causes insulin resistance, which has nothing to do with insulin spikes. Insulin spikes are normal and necessary for proper nutrient absorption.
Also, I think the "fat is vs fat is not the preferred fuel source" argument is based on miscommunication. Fatty acids are not a preferred fuel source, however, excess glycogen will be converted to glycerol and stored as fat. Then glycerol gets converted back into glycogen as needed and used. So, "fat" (glycerol) is being burned, but "fat" (fatty acids) are not. At least, that's how it was explained to me, as I'm not a nutrition major.0 -
Well I am more interested in being healthy than I am just losing weight. You apparently are not. Do whatever you want. It's your body.0
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well, it's as much about how LONG the body takes to digest food as it is about what kind of food it is. By that I mean, things that are highly processed are easy to break down in the body, which means all the nutrients are transfered to the body in a very rapid progression, besides it being turned into fat it spikes the blood sugar which, if done regularly can lead to insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. Foods with complex carbohydrates need their bonds broken before the polysaccharides can be turned into glucose.
So that's the first problem you have to understand.
second, vitamin pills aren't broken down in the body the same way food is, so receiving your micro-nutrients all via vitamins might keep you alive, but it's not how the body was designed to work, it's far less efficient, and will eventually cause long term deficiencies, it may take years for these problems to manifest, but it will happen.
the third part is about fat itself.
even though fat is a fuel source, it's not the one the body likes to use, the body likes glucose, and will always try to use that first for most things, eating a lot of highly processed food increases fat stores, which causes the body chemistry to change and ultimately leads to health problems (such as the above mentioned diabetes for example, among others).
these are some top of my head answers to your questions.
hope they help clear it up for you.
Insulin spikes don't cause insulin resistance. Excess body fat in the blood stream causes insulin resistance, which has nothing to do with insulin spikes. Insulin spikes are normal and necessary for proper nutrient absorption.
Also, I think the "fat is vs fat is not the preferred fuel source" argument is based on miscommunication. Fatty acids are not a preferred fuel source, however, excess glycogen will be converted to glycerol and stored as fat. Then glycerol gets converted back into glycogen as needed and used. So, "fat" (glycerol) is being burned, but "fat" (fatty acids) are not. At least, that's how it was explained to me, as I'm not a nutrition major.
what?
Insulin resistance is caused by sustained high levels of insulin in the blood (if you notice, I said "if done on a regular basis, meaning sustained high levels of blood glucose and therefore insulin), which can be caused by blood sugar levels, excess body fat in the blood stream is not the cause of insulin resistance, and in truth, high insulin levels actually inhibits triglycerols from being widely dispersed as insulin triggers reesterification of FFA's in the blood (fat storage). When cellular insulin receptor proteins are bombarded over the long term with insulin, it becomes more difficult for the insulin to open the cell to blood glucose, which means less glucose is taken up by the cells, this is called metabolic syndrome or pre-diabetes.0 -
So, what you're saying is, people should stop eating so often, as the very act of eating spikes insulin. Protein and carbs individually can both spike insulin at similar levels, and eaten together, can actually spike insulin even higher than each one alone. I see the problem is essentially people eating too often, and keeping insulin levels constantly elevated. Like you had said before, if insulin spikes last for 3 hours at a time before coming down, and people eat every 3 hours in order to stick to some arbitrary "eat x number of meals a day" plan, then insulin would remain constantly elevated, which could lead to insulin resistance. It's really not the size of the spike, but the length of time it's raised that seems to cause problems.
Also, here's a link to a study that links insulin resistance to fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1317665
And another:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/1243786rq457j84m/
I'll amend my statement of "excess body fat" to just "excess fat."0 -
Ok, I can't see your diary, but I was curious and made up something that sounds like a typical day for you. 2 fiber one bars for breakfast, beef and broccoli (actually one of the lower calorie items) and spring rolls from Panda Express, 3 slices of large peperoni pizza from Dominoes,and a 2.07oz snickers bar.I really don't get the difference on MFP between eating healthy, and just eating Fiber One bars (for regularity!), a multivitamin (so we don't get scurvy), and Snickers (for deliciousness) all day every day. <snip>
Basically I eat a lot of junk food (diary is open to friends, this much I know). I know I need to stop existing purely on diet soda, pizza, and Chinese food but right now it seems to be working for me. MFP works whether I eat a salad or a burger as long as I get my deficit. I know people who have existed for years without vegetables, yet I know they are critical, but I don't understand exactly where my motivation is to change my tasty tasty lifestyle?
Breakdown: 1640 cals. 71 fat (66 is max for 2k cal diet), 28 sat fat (22 max fir 2k cal), 206 carbs (around 275 for 2k), 24 fiber, 55 protein, ***3600** sodium (2300 max). And that's not including 35+mg sodium per can of diet cola.
At the very least you are over on fats and over 1.5 times the recommended sodium intake, and over on your saturated fats (which usually cause problems down the road). Might be a good idea to check to make sure your fats, carbs, fiber, protein, sugars,* and* sodium are within recommended ranges. I find it hard to believe a mostly fast-food diet would not send your sodium out of the ballpark (not to mention sat fats), unless you made some very careful choices.0 -
So, what you're saying is, people should stop eating so often, as the very act of eating spikes insulin. Protein and carbs individually can both spike insulin at similar levels, and eaten together, can actually spike insulin even higher than each one alone. I see the problem is essentially people eating too often, and keeping insulin levels constantly elevated. Like you had said before, if insulin spikes last for 3 hours at a time before coming down, and people eat every 3 hours in order to stick to some arbitrary "eat x number of meals a day" plan, then insulin would remain constantly elevated, which could lead to insulin resistance. It's really not the size of the spike, but the length of time it's raised that seems to cause problems.
Also, here's a link to a study that links insulin resistance to fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1317665
And another:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/1243786rq457j84m/
I'll amend my statement of "excess body fat" to just "excess fat."
There's a difference between normal blood sugar levels after a feeding and high blood sugar levels during the fed state, eating complex carbohydrates, fiber, and lean proteins will raise blood sugar levels in a normal way that is controllable in the body, eating simple carbs and sugary foods leads to massive doses of glucose entering the blood stream rapidly, which spike insulin to abnormally high levels, doing this once or twice a week or less just leads to what's commonly known as a "sugar high" for most people who are otherwise healthy, doing this daily can lead to insulin insensitivity and insulin resistance.
And you can't just amend your statement about body fat to dietary fat and wipe your hands, they're two completely different things, yes, high dietary fat intake has been associated with insulin resistance (if you notice, I said high blood glucose CAN be a cause of insulin resistance, not that it was the ONLY cause of insulin resistance).
Are you saying that you don't think consistently high blood glucose levels are a cause of insulin resistance?
and yes, there are plenty of studies to back this up as well.
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/10/5/512.full.pdf
http://www.ajcn.org/content/92/6/1359.full.pdf+html?sid=984f2d41-a240-4390-8d3e-ee5d5d21f998
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049597902262
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/5/965.full.pdf+html?sid=984f2d41-a240-4390-8d3e-ee5d5d21f998
(this one's not a direct report on it, but is related and had some good facts)
http://www.ajcn.org/content/92/6/1359.full.pdf+html?sid=984f2d41-a240-4390-8d3e-ee5d5d21f998
there's plenty more, but I found these first.
That's not to mention the various texts that all speak to the link between Blood glucose levels and insulin resistance.0 -
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Well, all through my 20s and 30s, I could eat junk and lose weight. And I looked fit and thin. As long as I did not go over on my calories, I lost weight no matter what I ate.
Once I got into my 40s...that no longer worked. I have to eat better now. The calories alone do not budge the scale or the body fat caliper.
So, now I eat more protein and less carbs. This is taking the weight off and body fat. I do 35/35/30 (protein/carbs/fat)...and this is working at my age.0 -
*SIGH*
Why would you NOT want to eat a healthy, balanced diet?
We live in an age where we have so much knowledge about nutrition, and so many resources available to us - and yet people still don't implement this knowledge in their own lifestyle.
I don't suppose cardiovascular disease, cancer, strokes and diabetes are on anyones bucket list... and these are largely preventable diseases of which diet plays a fundamental role. Sure if you want to lose weight, carry on with the fast food and soda with a calorie deficit and yes, sure enough you will lose weight. Weight however, is not the issue. Health is. Think long term and then perhaps you'll find motivation to make positive food-related behaviour changes.0 -
well, it's as much about how LONG the body takes to digest food as it is about what kind of food it is. By that I mean, things that are highly processed are easy to break down in the body, which means all the nutrients are transfered to the body in a very rapid progression, besides it being turned into fat it spikes the blood sugar which, if done regularly can lead to insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. Foods with complex carbohydrates need their bonds broken before the polysaccharides can be turned into glucose.
So that's the first problem you have to understand.
second, vitamin pills aren't broken down in the body the same way food is, so receiving your micro-nutrients all via vitamins might keep you alive, but it's not how the body was designed to work, it's far less efficient, and will eventually cause long term deficiencies, it may take years for these problems to manifest, but it will happen.
the third part is about fat itself.
even though fat is a fuel source, it's not the one the body likes to use, the body likes glucose, and will always try to use that first for most things, eating a lot of highly processed food increases fat stores, which causes the body chemistry to change and ultimately leads to health problems (such as the above mentioned diabetes for example, among others).
these are some top of my head answers to your questions.
hope they help clear it up for you.
the only way anything is made into fat is if it is not used, as long as there is a caloric deficit you will not make any more new fat.
will "junk food" fill you up? maybe in the short term, but whole foods ( chicken, tuna, eggs,.....) are more calorie dense and will keep you feeling full for longer.
personally I have a bowl of ice cream every night before bed ( if it fits in my calories)
just a bit of good reading here to for all the "clean" eaters that are sure to come for the show.
www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.../index.html0 -
the study was done on people and their offspring that have type 2, the real question what caused it. I'm willing to guess a caloric surplus. I guess it Kind of falls under the whole what came first theory.0 -
Also, I would like to state outright that I am not seriously advocating eating junk all day every day. I know that it is not healthy, I am trying to understand the science behind why. I was trying to use humor while at the same time gain knowledge. If I could market a Snickers Diet and make myself ridiculously rich I wouldn't do it. I know what its like to struggle with my body (the same way some people struggle with satire) and the only magic solution is to eat right and exercise.
If I was seriously pitching healthy eating to someone, I'd frame it like this...
1) Your digestive tract is a marvel. It's a finely tuned machine for extracting nutrients from food. Fibre is only part of how the system works, and a Fibre One bar or two, some vitamins and Snickers is not going to keep it running at optimum. And when it runs at optimum, you run at optimum. I like the comparison earlier of high octane versus low octane fuel.
2) A personal anecdote. I've done 1200 calories of junk food before (well, somewhat healthy, but with too many simple carbs and not enough protein). I was miserable, I was starving, I had zero energy. I wasn't dying, and I did lose weight, but I felt like crap. Fast forward to when I started eating healthy in January. Still 1200 calories, but moderate carbs from whole grains and fruits and veggies, lots of protein, moderate fat. I've given up my coffee. I still like coffee, I just don't need it to make it through the morning. A lot of my classmates marvel at my ability to hit the gym after 8 hours of class, while they're hitting the pillow for a nap. I'm rarely hungry (and if I am, it's because a class is running long and I haven't been able to eat on schedule). I feel like everything is working better.0
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