Just can't seem to get there!
eokane96
Posts: 4
Hey everyone, How would you suggest that I shred off some fat, but also build muscle? I burn at least 900 calories a day just working out, and I eat about 2500 calories. I'm not seeing the results that I want though. What does anyone suggest?
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Replies
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you didnt really give a lot of details about your exercise, but i would suggest lifting heavy - if you dont already. cut back on cardio if thats all you do. technically you cant gain much muscle while at a deficit (unless youre very new to lifting) but it will help keep the muscle you have, and when the fat goes away theyll look more defined.
i lift 3x/week, and do cardio 2x...for a weekly total of 3.5 hours. last month i lost a pound a week, and from jan 1st to feb 12 i lost 20 inches over all.0 -
Hey everyone, How would you suggest that I shred off some fat, but also build muscle? I burn at least 900 calories a day just working out, and I eat about 2500 calories. I'm not seeing the results that I want though. What does anyone suggest?
What are you doing to burn 900?0 -
running and body weight in the AM, rowing in the afternoon0
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you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....0
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Oky, I wasn't sure. I guess I'll just have to start lifting!0
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you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
Why not? I'm doing that right now. 5% down BF and increased strength on all lifts. Absolutely possible.
The the OP, caloric surplus on lifting days, deficit on non lifting days. Good luck.0 -
you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.0 -
Oky, I wasn't sure. I guess I'll just have to start lifting!
yes yes yes. I started lifting heavy about, oh, 6 weeks ago and I've started to notice the fat going down and muscle going up from a decreasing BF%age. good luck!0 -
Can't really do both at the same time. To gain muscle you'll add fat and vice versa. You just need to decide what's more important to you first.Hey everyone, How would you suggest that I shred off some fat, but also build muscle? I burn at least 900 calories a day just working out, and I eat about 2500 calories. I'm not seeing the results that I want though. What does anyone suggest?
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Strength increase isn't the best marker for indicating you're building muscle. While some athletes who had a long lay off and return to lifting can build back some muscle lost, the average person practically really can't on a deficit.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
Why not? I'm doing that right now. 5% down BF and increased strength on all lifts. Absolutely possible.
The the OP, caloric surplus on lifting days, deficit on non lifting days. Good luck.
Strength gain is more about your nervous control system while on calorie deficit. You may be using more synergists in your lifts than previous lifts which would explain the strength gain. Not uncommon.
And you need surplus on REST days to build muscle since that's when they are rebuilding.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Ok but what if you want to continue burning fat by doing cardio 5 times a week, but just want to tone by flabby arms by strength training with weight machines (ie triceps, biceps, chest, shoulder n back)? Is this doable?0
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Can't really do both at the same time. To gain muscle you'll add fat and vice versa. You just need to decide what's more important to you first.
i'm sure you have probably explained before .. but can you expand or point me somewhere to read? When I started working out heavily ... i gained about ~8lbs. Now I've lost those 8 lbs and I'm going down again and now i'm seeing my BF% go down. So I know i'm losing fat and gaining muscle. was the inital gain the fat gain you mentioned? Or am i just completely wrong?0 -
you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
Such a shocker, so back in '05 when I lost body weight and increased muscle mass, I did was wrong. I have also been lead to believe that by increasing your muscel mass you would increase you metabolism and thus burn more calories, equaling more fat burn.0 -
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Explain increase in lifts?
Again, calorie surplus on lift days, deficit on rest, cardio days.0 -
People will gain water weight from working out. It's common. Think about it, to gain 8lbs of muscle you have to have consumed 600 calories daily over your set calories and have all those calories become muscle (1 pound of muscle is about 600 calories). So 8lbs of pure muscle is 4,800 calories surplus. To gain muscle, you HAVE to gain weight. To gain weight you have to have a calorie surplus. Not all of those calories will become muscle, some will become fat and some will be stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle.i'm sure you have probably explained before .. but can you expand or point me somewhere to read? When I started working out heavily ... i gained about ~8lbs. Now I've lost those 8 lbs and I'm going down again and now i'm seeing my BF% go down. So I know i'm losing fat and gaining muscle. was the inital gain the fat gain you mentioned? Or am i just completely wrong?
You're seeing more definition, so you may think you're seeing muscle being built, but it's just an illusion. You lift weights to try to RETAIN what muscle you have since weight loss will take away fat and muscle in the process.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Yeah, we must be out of the loop.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.0 -
you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
Why not? I'm doing that right now. 5% down BF and increased strength on all lifts. Absolutely possible.
The the OP, caloric surplus on lifting days, deficit on non lifting days. Good luck.
thanks I was wondering how to do that! hadn't considered the deficit and surplus0 -
you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
Why not? I'm doing that right now. 5% down BF and increased strength on all lifts. Absolutely possible.
The the OP, caloric surplus on lifting days, deficit on non lifting days. Good luck.
This works! Cut your cardio and up your heavy lifting. Try a 5x5 program that incorporates compound lifting. I am assuming you don't do this based on your OP stating you work with body weight only. I went from 21% to 14% in 8 weeks following proper nutrition and heavy lifting. Good luck!0 -
(sorry to hijack)
but wow, that really sucks. illusions are lame.0 -
People will gain water weight from working out. It's common. Think about it, to gain 8lbs of muscle you have to have consumed 600 calories daily over your set calories and have all those calories become muscle (1 pound of muscle is about 600 calories). So 8lbs of pure muscle is 4,800 calories surplus. To gain muscle, you HAVE to gain weight. To gain weight you have to have a calorie surplus. Not all of those calories will become muscle, some will become fat and some will be stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle.i'm sure you have probably explained before .. but can you expand or point me somewhere to read? When I started working out heavily ... i gained about ~8lbs. Now I've lost those 8 lbs and I'm going down again and now i'm seeing my BF% go down. So I know i'm losing fat and gaining muscle. was the inital gain the fat gain you mentioned? Or am i just completely wrong?
You're seeing more definition, so you may think you're seeing muscle being built, but it's just an illusion. You lift weights to try to RETAIN what muscle you have since weight loss will take away fat and muscle in the process.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.0 -
I did. Think about competitive power lifters. They compete in weight classes. They CAN'T go up in weight in their class yet want to increase strength. They do it through training correctly and learning how to involve SYNERGIST muscles.
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Explain increase in lifts?
Again, calorie surplus on lift days, deficit on rest, cardio days.
You are incorporating more synergist muscles in your lifts where you didn't before.
And you BUILD muscle on rest days not on days you lift. So to be in deficit on rest days wouldn't help in building muscle. To build muscle you have to add weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Surely synergistic muscles would apply to new lifters primarily with rapid gains in strength but at the same time be subject to increase in size as strength increases?
At its most basic, any muscle fiber needs increased size to perform extra work?0 -
No I'm not. Unless you're in the category of the exception I mentioned above, building muscle on calorie deficit is almost impossible. It would defy the law of thermodynamics. To build muscle you have to add weight. That means a TOTAL calorie surplus. Think about it. If what you say is true, then why in the world would competitive bodybuilders bother to "bulk up" in the off
You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.
season? Why not just build muscle based on what you're saying and stay lean and cut WHILE still adding muscle? Because it doesn't happen that way.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I did. Think about competitive power lifters. They compete in weight classes. They CAN'T go up in weight in their class yet want to increase strength. They do it through training correctly and learning how to involve SYNERGIST muscles.
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Explain increase in lifts?
Again, calorie surplus on lift days, deficit on rest, cardio days.
You are incorporating more synergist muscles in your lifts where you didn't before.
And you BUILD muscle on rest days not on days you lift. So to be in deficit on rest days wouldn't help in building muscle. To build muscle you have to add weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't know this. Thanks a bunch! I'm going to read more on muscle building.0 -
No I'm not. Unless you're in the category of the exception I mentioned above, building muscle on calorie deficit is almost impossible. It would defy the law of thermodynamics. To build muscle you have to add weight. That means a TOTAL calorie surplus. Think about it. If what you say is true, then why in the world would competitive bodybuilders bother to "bulk up" in the off
You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.
season? Why not just build muscle based on what you're saying and stay lean and cut WHILE still adding muscle? Because it doesn't happen that way.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I would classify body builders as the exception. Extreme gains and extreme losses, AND rarely natural at that.0 -
Not necessarily. Again think power lifters. Using techniques in overload progression and explosion training can increase strength without increasing size.Surely synergistic muscles would apply to new lifters primarily with rapid gains in strength but at the same time be subject to increase in size as strength increases?
At its most basic, any muscle fiber needs increased size to perform extra work?
I have clients (males) who want to increase strength without gaining weight or size. So I train them on technique and how to involve more synergist muscles to assist with higher poundages in their lifts.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Why would that change the process on what you've said though? If you state that it can be done, it shouldn't matter if it's a body builder or not. And enhancement would only enhance what you've stated.I would classify body builders as the exception. Extreme gains and extreme losses, AND rarely natural at that.
If you're stating you can build muscle on calorie deficit, then the application shouldn't change because of a profession.
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Here's my theory. If it's bunk, please let me know. I think what some people think is new muscle being built is actually the muscles they already had being activated and strengthened. By becoming activated and stronger, they get firmer which is something you can feel and also means the muscles are becoming tighter and, thus, taking up less space which corresponds with the inches being lost. And they might be able to see those muscles while flexing and working out, even if they're normally covered by a little extra fat still there giving further illusion to the idea that they're growing more muscles.
I'm basing this on the fact that I, along with many others here who lift heavy, get smaller. I restarted exercising in August after finally healing from a bad back injury. Aug-Dec I was lifting lower weights/higher reps. Since December, I've switched to heavier weights/lower reps. I am seeing amazing changes in my body composition. I have bicep and tricep muscles that pop for the first time in 20+ years! My quads are rock solid. My hamstring/glute area is getting firmer and my legs are getting longer, LOL. Well, really my butt is lifting so, from the back, it just makes my legs look longer. I know I can't build new muscle while eating in a deficit. But due to body composition changes, I have gone done one pant size with just minimal loss in scale weight since lifting heavy and those smaller pants are already getting loose in the thighs because my saddlebags are also shrinking. While I haven't gone down a size in my shirts during this time, they hang much looser on me. And, of course, since I'm still a newbie I'm see a steady progression in the weights I can lift, getting heavier and heavier all the time.
The scale weight means little to me anymore. I'm loving getting stronger and smaller. Once I get to the size I want, i.e. when I get rid of the layers of fat hiding my muscles (especially still noticeable on my thighs, butt, saddlebag area, and upper arms), and I have no idea at this time what weight that will be, I will start eating in a surplus and lifting to try to build more muscles.0 -
Am I able to gain muscle weight without gaining fat also? That's how I should have phrased my question. Calories are just a number, so I am okay with increasing my intake on given days (what matters is what the calories are composed of).
So perhaps through doing 4 day of cardio a week, and 3 days weights, could I potentailly gain muscle weight and not fat?0
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