Just can't seem to get there!
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People will gain water weight from working out. It's common. Think about it, to gain 8lbs of muscle you have to have consumed 600 calories daily over your set calories and have all those calories become muscle (1 pound of muscle is about 600 calories). So 8lbs of pure muscle is 4,800 calories surplus. To gain muscle, you HAVE to gain weight. To gain weight you have to have a calorie surplus. Not all of those calories will become muscle, some will become fat and some will be stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle.i'm sure you have probably explained before .. but can you expand or point me somewhere to read? When I started working out heavily ... i gained about ~8lbs. Now I've lost those 8 lbs and I'm going down again and now i'm seeing my BF% go down. So I know i'm losing fat and gaining muscle. was the inital gain the fat gain you mentioned? Or am i just completely wrong?
You're seeing more definition, so you may think you're seeing muscle being built, but it's just an illusion. You lift weights to try to RETAIN what muscle you have since weight loss will take away fat and muscle in the process.
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You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.0 -
I did. Think about competitive power lifters. They compete in weight classes. They CAN'T go up in weight in their class yet want to increase strength. They do it through training correctly and learning how to involve SYNERGIST muscles.
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
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Explain increase in lifts?
Again, calorie surplus on lift days, deficit on rest, cardio days.
You are incorporating more synergist muscles in your lifts where you didn't before.
And you BUILD muscle on rest days not on days you lift. So to be in deficit on rest days wouldn't help in building muscle. To build muscle you have to add weight.
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Surely synergistic muscles would apply to new lifters primarily with rapid gains in strength but at the same time be subject to increase in size as strength increases?
At its most basic, any muscle fiber needs increased size to perform extra work?0 -
No I'm not. Unless you're in the category of the exception I mentioned above, building muscle on calorie deficit is almost impossible. It would defy the law of thermodynamics. To build muscle you have to add weight. That means a TOTAL calorie surplus. Think about it. If what you say is true, then why in the world would competitive bodybuilders bother to "bulk up" in the off
You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.
season? Why not just build muscle based on what you're saying and stay lean and cut WHILE still adding muscle? Because it doesn't happen that way.
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I did. Think about competitive power lifters. They compete in weight classes. They CAN'T go up in weight in their class yet want to increase strength. They do it through training correctly and learning how to involve SYNERGIST muscles.
It's true. While there are some exceptions (obese/very overweight on a lifting program, athlete returning after long layoff, newbie who has NEVER weight lifted before) it's practically IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle on calorie deficit. The misconception that people see is that their muscle definition is showing after body fat % is being reduced giving them the illusion that they are building muscle when in fact they really aren't.you can't shred fat and build muscle at the same time....
What? Wow - I need to tell my body this cause it didn't get your memo.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Explain increase in lifts?
Again, calorie surplus on lift days, deficit on rest, cardio days.
You are incorporating more synergist muscles in your lifts where you didn't before.
And you BUILD muscle on rest days not on days you lift. So to be in deficit on rest days wouldn't help in building muscle. To build muscle you have to add weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't know this. Thanks a bunch! I'm going to read more on muscle building.0 -
No I'm not. Unless you're in the category of the exception I mentioned above, building muscle on calorie deficit is almost impossible. It would defy the law of thermodynamics. To build muscle you have to add weight. That means a TOTAL calorie surplus. Think about it. If what you say is true, then why in the world would competitive bodybuilders bother to "bulk up" in the off
You're talking pure weight. BF % can be lowered while building muscle.
season? Why not just build muscle based on what you're saying and stay lean and cut WHILE still adding muscle? Because it doesn't happen that way.
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I would classify body builders as the exception. Extreme gains and extreme losses, AND rarely natural at that.0 -
Not necessarily. Again think power lifters. Using techniques in overload progression and explosion training can increase strength without increasing size.Surely synergistic muscles would apply to new lifters primarily with rapid gains in strength but at the same time be subject to increase in size as strength increases?
At its most basic, any muscle fiber needs increased size to perform extra work?
I have clients (males) who want to increase strength without gaining weight or size. So I train them on technique and how to involve more synergist muscles to assist with higher poundages in their lifts.
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Why would that change the process on what you've said though? If you state that it can be done, it shouldn't matter if it's a body builder or not. And enhancement would only enhance what you've stated.I would classify body builders as the exception. Extreme gains and extreme losses, AND rarely natural at that.
If you're stating you can build muscle on calorie deficit, then the application shouldn't change because of a profession.
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Here's my theory. If it's bunk, please let me know. I think what some people think is new muscle being built is actually the muscles they already had being activated and strengthened. By becoming activated and stronger, they get firmer which is something you can feel and also means the muscles are becoming tighter and, thus, taking up less space which corresponds with the inches being lost. And they might be able to see those muscles while flexing and working out, even if they're normally covered by a little extra fat still there giving further illusion to the idea that they're growing more muscles.
I'm basing this on the fact that I, along with many others here who lift heavy, get smaller. I restarted exercising in August after finally healing from a bad back injury. Aug-Dec I was lifting lower weights/higher reps. Since December, I've switched to heavier weights/lower reps. I am seeing amazing changes in my body composition. I have bicep and tricep muscles that pop for the first time in 20+ years! My quads are rock solid. My hamstring/glute area is getting firmer and my legs are getting longer, LOL. Well, really my butt is lifting so, from the back, it just makes my legs look longer. I know I can't build new muscle while eating in a deficit. But due to body composition changes, I have gone done one pant size with just minimal loss in scale weight since lifting heavy and those smaller pants are already getting loose in the thighs because my saddlebags are also shrinking. While I haven't gone down a size in my shirts during this time, they hang much looser on me. And, of course, since I'm still a newbie I'm see a steady progression in the weights I can lift, getting heavier and heavier all the time.
The scale weight means little to me anymore. I'm loving getting stronger and smaller. Once I get to the size I want, i.e. when I get rid of the layers of fat hiding my muscles (especially still noticeable on my thighs, butt, saddlebag area, and upper arms), and I have no idea at this time what weight that will be, I will start eating in a surplus and lifting to try to build more muscles.0 -
Am I able to gain muscle weight without gaining fat also? That's how I should have phrased my question. Calories are just a number, so I am okay with increasing my intake on given days (what matters is what the calories are composed of).
So perhaps through doing 4 day of cardio a week, and 3 days weights, could I potentailly gain muscle weight and not fat?0 -
Yes you can, it will take longer, and I'd say it's more difficult working out the diet, but you still need to be over your maintenance calories , take in good fats (i.e canola, flaxseed, olive) and stick to clean lean meat and complex carbs.
It would be easier to go way over your calorie maintenance (i.e. 1000 cals or so) and then bulk up from there. You will gain probably at least as much fat as you do muscle, which then need to be worked off again. The gains would be quicker though.
But... if you are currently overweight, I wouldn't say the last mentioned option would be the best. I'd follow the first one then.0 -
Ok but what if you want to continue burning fat by doing cardio 5 times a week, but just want to tone by flabby arms by strength training with weight machines (ie triceps, biceps, chest, shoulder n back)? Is this doable?
Firstly, apologies, I'm not attacking your post or anything. I would just like to know what you understand from Toning. Asking because I don't think this term exists. Muscle shape is determined by genetics as far as I know and there is no way of toning them. You can either build or lose muscle according to me. If you mention toning your flabby arms, I imagine you need to cut the fat as so that your muscles are more noticeable (and build them bigger if they are not big enough according to you)
According to me, in order to be able to see your muscles, you need to use a combination of building the muscle and loosing the fat around it. Toning doesn't exist, unless it is a synonym for losing fat.0 -
It's almost impossible to gain muscle without fat while surplusing your calories. For about every pound of muscle you gain, you'll gain a minimum .3 pounds of fat and in most cases more. And not to kid you it's HARD to gain muscle. Unless you have some really great genetics, a pound or two of lean muscle a month would be about tops.Am I able to gain muscle weight without gaining fat also? That's how I should have phrased my question. Calories are just a number, so I am okay with increasing my intake on given days (what matters is what the calories are composed of).
So perhaps through doing 4 day of cardio a week, and 3 days weights, could I potentailly gain muscle weight and not fat?
So again, you'd have to evaluate what your goals are.
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THIS. "Toning" is a word that was morphed over to yoga and pilates so that "muscle conditioning" sounded more feminine.Ok but what if you want to continue burning fat by doing cardio 5 times a week, but just want to tone by flabby arms by strength training with weight machines (ie triceps, biceps, chest, shoulder n back)? Is this doable?
Firstly, apologies, I'm not attacking your post or anything. I would just like to know what you understand from Toning. Asking because I don't think this term exists. Muscle shape is determined by genetics as far as I know and there is no way of toning them. You can either build or lose muscle according to me. If you mention toning your flabby arms, I imagine you need to cut the fat as so that your muscles are more noticeable (and build them bigger if they are not big enough according to you)
According to me, in order to be able to see your muscles, you need to use a combination of building the muscle and loosing the fat around it. Toning doesn't exist, unless it is a synonym for losing fat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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