Low Reps; Heavy Weights

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  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    Yeah, sounds like you probably need heavier weights if you're trying to bulk up.

    I do lighter weights and higher reps, for lean muscle building.

    FAIL!!!
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    Have coached a high school power lifting team...
    My advice is to start with endurance lifting of 12-14 reps at about 60-75% of your maximum lift (you are going to need bigger weights). Do 4 weeks of this. Then switch to a pyramid to build strength. (pyramid is starting at 10 then 8 then 6 then 4 then 2 reps--and if you are truly adventurous back out again). The pyramid should be 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% and 95% respectively. Once I month I had the kids do two lifts to exhaustion (bench and squat). With these lifts the girls would use the bar for bench and 135 for squats and the boys would use 50% of their max.( If you attempt this, make sure you have a spotter! This literally means lifting that weight until you can not move it again. AND make sure you give yourself 2 days recovery) You shouldn't be lifting any body part more than twice a week to allow for growth and repair. You can pyramid for 4 weeks and then go back to endurance for a week...keep rotating. I started with endurance so that the kids were using lower weight working on form, and because many of them wanted to lift by themselves...training in endurance lifting first allows you to complete more reps with better form at a higher weight. Good luck!

    Agree and disagree.

    1. You can lift the same body part twice a week (Max Effort vs. Dynamic Effort) but it should be a different type of training or done infrequently just to try and spark some growth / fight through a plateau.
    2. Yes, learn good form. Form breaks down as the weight gets heavier.
  • tgzerozone
    tgzerozone Posts: 160
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    I think this is probably one of the better explanations that you might benefit from:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081110193425AASa5ud
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,639 Member
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    Surely if you've gained strength, you have increase your muscle mass in order to lift more?!
    If that were entirely true then people on deficit should have much more muscle mass. Strength gain on deficit is more about nervous system activation and synergistic muscle involvement.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,639 Member
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    Low reps with high weights builds bulk, high reps with low weights build physique.
    Myth. This is an old adage that's been circulating for decades now.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,639 Member
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    Have coached a high school power lifting team...
    My advice is to start with endurance lifting of 12-14 reps at about 60-75% of your maximum lift (you are going to need bigger weights). Do 4 weeks of this. Then switch to a pyramid to build strength. (pyramid is starting at 10 then 8 then 6 then 4 then 2 reps--and if you are truly adventurous back out again). The pyramid should be 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% and 95% respectively. Once I month I had the kids do two lifts to exhaustion (bench and squat). With these lifts the girls would use the bar for bench and 135 for squats and the boys would use 50% of their max.( If you attempt this, make sure you have a spotter! This literally means lifting that weight until you can not move it again. AND make sure you give yourself 2 days recovery) You shouldn't be lifting any body part more than twice a week to allow for growth and repair. You can pyramid for 4 weeks and then go back to endurance for a week...keep rotating. I started with endurance so that the kids were using lower weight working on form, and because many of them wanted to lift by themselves...training in endurance lifting first allows you to complete more reps with better form at a higher weight. Good luck!

    Agree and disagree.

    1. You can lift the same body part twice a week (Max Effort vs. Dynamic Effort) but it should be a different type of training or done infrequently just to try and spark some growth / fight through a plateau.
    2. Yes, learn good form. Form breaks down as the weight gets heavier.
    Agree here. I put on the majority of my muscle from training each body part 2 times a week in the beginning, however my training was a heavy day (4x6 reps) and next session was moderate (3x8-12)


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • Chuckempire
    Chuckempire Posts: 44
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    5x5 is a great strength program, but if you looking to add some mass, you're better off doing 8-12 reps for muscle hyertrophy.



    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    I agree. Your body isnt used to the 9th, 10th and so on reps. Train to failure and you will build muscle quicker. Also your diet has to be in check.
  • Zichu
    Zichu Posts: 542 Member
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    I did work on Chest and Back yesterday for about 50 minutes. This morning, I was aching when I stretched my arms. Aches on my chest and the top of my back which is where I was targeting, so I feel pretty happy that I did it yesterday even though it felt slightly easy on some workouts.

    The only workout I had problems with was the Dumbbell Fly, my left arm is just so weak compared to my right and I want to build them both up equally. I had trouble lifting the same weight on my left arm compared to my right during this workout.

    I will be sticking to 5x5 for now and try my hardest with heavier weights, I do hope I get closer to being stronger and having a bigger muscle mass.


    I would say my diet is pretty decent, I did have a deficit of 250kcal, but I scrapped that last week I think after hearing some good advice. So I am currently maintaining my calorie goal, and eating back my exercise calories, including the strength training calories I have burnt. Yesterday, I managed to get all my protein which is 150g and a bit more, my carbs were pretty low yesterday. I could easily do the same.


    Also, I am working on Abs today. I don't really know if there are any Ab workouts that use Dumbbells, but I found a workout that includes Floor Crunches, Horizontal Leg Raises and Plank.

    I wouldn't mind some ideas from people who have been working on abs and it's been working for them. Obviously, this has to be done at home with little to no equipment.
  • ravihira1892
    ravihira1892 Posts: 149
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    BUMP

    Also what are your actual goals? Gain lean muscle mass? bulk? tone? etc
  • JamesBurkes
    JamesBurkes Posts: 382 Member
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    Surely if you've gained strength, you have increase your muscle mass in order to lift more?!

    Unfortunately, no. A lot of initial strength gains can just come from getting used to the movement and working out how to do it better.

    Then additional strength gains can come from adaptations in the tendons and ligaments.

    All good news if you want to increase your bench press but just because you've doubled your bench doesn't mean you've now got double the pecs!

    Personally, I find I get better gains in size if I stick to around 8 reps or so. Unfortunately, I'm my own worst enemy and even though I always use good form I tend to use weights that make me fail at 5 or so. I've found this is good for getting stronger and it does add meat. But when I consciously restrain myself and go a little lighter for 8 or so, I tend to blow up like a balloon. 12 would be too light for me, I think, although I never do 12 apart from in warm-up sets....
  • jesusGuerrero12
    jesusGuerrero12 Posts: 3
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    5x5 is for strength more than likely ppl use it when theyre bulkin, but 8-12 is more for deffinition i guess you can call it?
  • ravihira1892
    ravihira1892 Posts: 149
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    surely even by doing say 3 sets of 5 reps & having your diet in surplus your bound to pack on muscle?
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    surely even by doing say 3 sets of 5 reps & having your diet in surplus your bound to pack on muscle?

    You will increase strength and some muscle with that routine, but you need a lot more volume to "pack on muscle".
  • Taylerr88
    Taylerr88 Posts: 320 Member
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    5x5 is for strength more than likely ppl use it when theyre bulkin, but 8-12 is more for deffinition i guess you can call it?

    first half is right.. but doing high reps does not give you definition. cutting bf gives you definition and nothing else.
  • mandypooh2103
    mandypooh2103 Posts: 289 Member
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    bump
  • ravihira1892
    ravihira1892 Posts: 149
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    surely even by doing say 3 sets of 5 reps & having your diet in surplus your bound to pack on muscle?

    You will increase strength and some muscle with that routine, but you need a lot more volume to "pack on muscle".

    How much volume are we talking about?

    So you saying in essence that...

    surplus diet + low reps and 90% strength for weights = gaining in strength + some muscle + fat gain

    and

    surplus diet + moderate reps say 8 reps + 70-80% strength for weights = muscle + fat gain?
  • Monkee_Magic
    Monkee_Magic Posts: 32 Member
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    Thanks for the good useable info.:happy:
  • auditorz
    auditorz Posts: 15
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    When you're a beginner do big compound lifts such as Squats, Deadlift, Bench, Overhead Press, Pullups. Only do a few of these moves each workout but add weight every workout. When you can't add weight switch up your routine. This may take a beginner 6 months or more on a proper program to stall. Or many people in the gym lift for years without progressive increases and never gain anything. Work smarter not harder.
  • blandrick
    blandrick Posts: 8
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    IMO to bulk up, first focus on getting strong. Do something like SL 5x5 or Westside 4SB until you gain some strength, IE at least 3 or 4 months solid of the program. Also, make sure your diet is in check. Once you can actually lift a fair amount of weight, you can focus on cutting or bulking or whatever it is that you want to do.

    The key is progressive loading, so like for Stronglifts your goal for squatting is to do 5 pounds more each workout than the last. When you stall you can deload and build back up, etc. When you start stalling, you'll have to start eating more, and my guess is that you'll bulk up just as a side effect of trying to get stronger. It's much harder to keep loading on more weight workout after workout if you're not eating enough.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,639 Member
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    surely even by doing say 3 sets of 5 reps & having your diet in surplus your bound to pack on muscle?

    You will increase strength and some muscle with that routine, but you need a lot more volume to "pack on muscle".
    This. Volume training in the 8-12 rep range has been the medium for the average person to pack on muscle. You have an incorporation of fast and slow twitch activation at medium levels for both. You are shooting for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy here and not myofibrillar.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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