Vegan vs Health
Replies
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You can't change their minds because they're right.
Sorry. I completely respect veganism for moral reasons but it's not a healthier way to live.
Agree about it not necessarily being healthier. The moral reasons I just don't get. Those that go vegan must be wired differently to feel overly compassionate towards using animals for food. This is not meant offensively. For example some folks may have impulse control issues which is due to a certain area in the brain.
Maybe the ones who aren't vegan are missing some wiring for compassion and empathy.
This is not meant offensively.0 -
Vegans as a group are statistically healthier than vegetarians or omnivores.
What statistics? Last I checked there are no concrete statistics one way or another on ANY way of eating to substantiate these claims. The basis for veganism being healthier resonates with people because it SOUNDS like it should be healthier, however flies in the face of biology, biochemistry and other evidence to the contrary.
I've met some pretty dang sickly vegans, my sister's boyfriend being one of them. The guy is just pale, thin, frail and not at all manly. Suffers from testosterone/estrogen imbalance and gets sick constantly. My sister went paleo and as a compromise feeds him a ton of fat from plants and he's getting better, but the guy could really use a good steak and the animal fats that go along with it.
That's interesting because I'm vegan and my legs are built like a horse.
Ditto.
Not to mention, elephants are vegan and hell, they have legs like... elephants! Hmm where do they get their protein? lol0 -
Maybe the ones who aren't vegan are missing some wiring for compassion and empathy.
This is not meant offensively.
Pure awesome.0 -
Oh man. I'd love to be a vegan, but I have trouble maintaining my protein goals as a pescetarian who eats the fish on occasion. I actually would go cold turkey on meat, and then begin the gradual switch from veggie to vegan. It gives you a chance to feel the VEGGIE POWER instead of a gradual energy increase. You'll be like, "Damn, I feel like a CHAMPION THIS WEEK" instead of wondering if maybe you feel better because of the vegs.
Try not to rely on soy too much, since you're a lady. Definitely stack up on the elder grains (yeah, that's what I like to call 'em, and what?) quinoa, kamut, farra, millet. All have decent protein ratings and a quinoa is even complete as far as amino acids go. If you get a good variety of foods you'll be perfect. Taking D and B12 supplements are a good idea, too.
If you make a decision to buy cruelty free products and see how expensive they are, you'll slowly remove them from your diet naturally. Cage free, happy chicken eggs are expensive. Grass fed joy cow milk? Expensive as eff. Cheese from that cow? ridonkculous. And by then you'll know how to cook balanced meals from plant sources. GO TEAM.0 -
I think it's unhealthy for young children who're developing still but you're definitely developed so I say just go for it! I can't wait to go vegan once I move out of the house and am buying my own food.0
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I think it's unhealthy for young children who're developing still but you're definitely developed so I say just go for it! I can't wait to go vegan once I move out of the house and am buying my own food.
" Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate **for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.**" -- Position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada: vegetarian diets
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/128260280 -
I recommend reading, googling or even searching YouTube anything by:
Jeff Novick
Dr. Joel Fuhrman
Dr. Neal Barnard
Dr. John McDougall
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn
John Robbins
Dr. Michael Klapper
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
A whole foods, vegan diet is extremely healthy!!
Best of luck!0 -
I think it's unhealthy for young children who're developing still but you're definitely developed so I say just go for it! I can't wait to go vegan once I move out of the house and am buying my own food.
Please read "Disease Proof Your Child" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. Lots of great research on why a vegan or near vegan diet is optimal for a growing child.0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?0
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Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.
There's the rub, these kids are not being fed soda and cookies, they are being fed a plant based diet with no animal products or dairy. Many have died, and the parents tried for their negligence:
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
This is NOT propoganda by the site in the link, but real world examples of babies dying on vegan diets. There have also been documented cases of vegan babies with diseases like rickets, brain damage and other developmental issues. In some cases the issues are reversed by introducing animal milk and meats.0 -
This is topical for me because my partner has just been diagnosed with pernicious anaemia (a deficiency in vitamin B12, which from what I read is produced by bacteria and is mainly found in animal foods or yeast) as well as a severe vitamin D deficiency. He does eat very healthily, cooks a lot, eats loads of fruit and veg, combines vegetable proteins, always buys organic, etc. He has been a strict vegetarian since we met when we were 18 (we are now 45), and he is aware of the nutritional content of everything he puts in is mouth. He doesn't even eat cheese made with animal rennet. However, about six months ago, he found out his cholesterol was slightly high, so he cut down his dairy consumption, includng eggs, to the absolute minimum. And for the last three months his health has been so awful that he has missed work, which is unheard of for him.
He is convinced that his severe anaemia and vitamin deficiency are nothing to do with his diet, but I am not so sure. What he chooses to eat is his call, of course, and I do appreciate the importance of sourcing ethically farmed meat, and the damage animal food production causes to the environment, but my personal opinion is that he should eat a more varied diet, by which I mean he should at least increase his dairy consumption. At the moment, I am very skeptical of claims that a totally vegan diet is healthy, and personally, I would think carefully about restricting your diet in the way you describe.0 -
This is topical for me because my partner has just been diagnosed with pernicious anaemia (a deficiency in vitamin B12, which from what I read is produced by bacteria and is mainly found in animal foods or yeast) as well as a severe vitamin D deficiency. He does eat very healthily, cooks a lot, eats loads of fruit and veg, combines vegetable proteins, always buys organic, etc. He has been a strict vegetarian since we met when we were 18 (we are now 45), and he is aware of the nutritional content of everything he puts in is mouth. He doesn't even eat cheese made with animal rennet. However, about six months ago, he found out his cholesterol was slightly high, so he cut down his dairy consumption, includng eggs, to the absolute minimum. And for the last three months his health has been so awful that he has missed work, which is unheard of for him.
He is convinced that his severe anaemia and vitamin deficiency are nothing to do with his diet, but I am not so sure. What he chooses to eat is his call, of course, and I do appreciate the importance of sourcing ethically farmed meat, and the damage animal food production causes to the environment, but my personal opinion is that he should eat a more varied diet, by which I mean he should at least increase his dairy consumption. At the moment, I am very skeptical of claims that a totally vegan diet is healthy, and personally, I would think carefully about restricting your diet in the way you describe.
Agreed. These types of things I've seen over and over and the vegan in question normally denies any wrong-doing of their diet because they are clinging to it for moral reasons. My sister's boyfriend is the most sickly man I've ever met in my life, and he's been eating a strict vegan diet for about 25 years. When I say that I could break the guy in two, that's not even just a saying...
She went paleo after being vegan for years, gaining weight and getting progressivly sicker. He refuses to change, but she makes sure that he gets tons of fat in his diet in the form of coconut oil, cut out soy and now he's not nearly as sick, but certainly not the poster boy for good health.
She (my sister) had been feeding her son a vegan diet for 4 out of his 5 years (either by proxy with breast milk on a vegan diet, or directly) and he had developmental issues, didn't grow normally, speech problems, and problem solving issues. She says that's done nearly a 180 degree turn since changing him to a paleo diet. Her boyfriend is not the father of her son, so no genetics played a role in that directly.0 -
Vegans as a group are statistically healthier than vegetarians or omnivores.
Where did you see these stats?
From my own experience, research and words from my own Dr tend to lean otherwise0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.
There's the rub, these kids are not being fed soda and cookies, they are being fed a plant based diet with no animal products or dairy. Many have died, and the parents tried for their negligence:
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
This is NOT propoganda by the site in the link, but real world examples of babies dying on vegan diets. There have also been documented cases of vegan babies with diseases like rickets, brain damage and other developmental issues. In some cases the issues are reversed by introducing animal milk and meats.
These babies were starved and neglected. Now should we blame omnivorism for the meat-eating parents who starve and neglect their babies? And while we're at it, let's indict the parents of obese children who are fed an omni diet. There are a lot of those we can point to.
How about the vegan tots who DON'T make headlines for having d-bags for parents?
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.
There's the rub, these kids are not being fed soda and cookies, they are being fed a plant based diet with no animal products or dairy. Many have died, and the parents tried for their negligence:
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
This is NOT propoganda by the site in the link, but real world examples of babies dying on vegan diets. There have also been documented cases of vegan babies with diseases like rickets, brain damage and other developmental issues. In some cases the issues are reversed by introducing animal milk and meats.
These babies were starved and neglected. Now should we blame omnivorism for the meat-eating parents who starve and neglect their babies? And while we're at it, let's indict the parents of obese children who are fed an omni diet. There are a lot of those we can point to.
How about the vegan tots who DON'T make headlines for having d-bags for parents?
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren
Who said there isn't abuse and neglect with other people? The point is that these children died as a direct result of being fed a vegan diet during times in which they should not be. The ONLY time you're going to hear about an omivourous child dying due to malnutrtion is when they are NOT FED AT ALL, or not in sufficient quantities...not because the nutrtion of the diet is lacking in general.
And that begs the point, if a vegan diet is not nutritionally sound for a developing human body, what in the world makes anyone think that it is good for the human body ANY time in life?
Look, I get the moral or ethical objections to eating meat. But to pass off veganism as some magical pathway to health is silly at best. You won't get any argument from me that much of the diet of anyone should probably be comprised of vegtables and fruits (preferrable much more vegtables than fruits), but the place in the human diet for animal proteins is well established and necessary for proper hormonal balance, and in the case of children, proper development and health.0 -
I'm vegan, my son's father is, and so is my 7 year old son. I don't assume that it is a magical pathway to perfect health. A healthy person requires a nutritionally balanced diet (and at least moderate exercise) - vegan, paleo, vegetarian, 'standard' diet.
My son is growing well, he's not fat, he's not skinny. He's the perfect build for his age. He has had bloodwork to make sure he isn't deficient in anything. He loves eating vegetables and blah blah blah. We also consult multiple doctors yearly for their opinions. He's at the top of his class and won a president's physical fitness award in gym.
Those deaths have nothing to do with being vegan - but with the parents ineptitude.
Some people are not and should not be vegan - sometimes a persons body just cannot handle it or they just can't do it.
But to act like it's a death sentence for a kid is flat out ridiculous and I think you know that. Those deaths have nothing to do with being vegan - but with the parents ineptitude.
Yeah, I can see how he is totally moments from death. 0 -
I would highly recommend Dr. Joel Fuhrman as a great resource for information about a plant-based diet. Check out his website, http://www.drfuhrman.com/ for science-based information.
One of my favorite vegan websites for recipes is fatfreevegan.com, and theppk.com.
Good luck!0 -
I'm vegan, my son's father is, and so is my 7 year old son. I don't assume that it is a magical pathway to perfect health. A healthy person requires a nutritionally balanced diet (and at least moderate exercise) - vegan, paleo, vegetarian, 'standard' diet.
My son is growing well, he's not fat, he's not skinny. He's the perfect build for his age. He has had bloodwork to make sure he isn't deficient in anything. He loves eating vegetables and blah blah blah. We also consult multiple doctors yearly for their opinions. He's at the top of his class and won a president's physical fitness award in gym.
Those deaths have nothing to do with being vegan - but with the parents ineptitude.
Some people are not and should not be vegan - sometimes a persons body just cannot handle it or they just can't do it.
But to act like it's a death sentence for a kid is flat out ridiculous and I think you know that. Those deaths have nothing to do with being vegan - but with the parents ineptitude. Yeah, I can see how he is totally moments from death.
Huh, I must have missed the part in my posts where I said that all children die from vegan diets....
The point still stands that without ensuring that proper levels of nutrients are provided to a child there are going to be issues. You sound like a good parent that is making sure that you son gets what he needs, but there are plenty who follow a vegan diet that assume that it is nutritionally sound and the best way for a body to get nutrients. My point still stands that these people are misguided by the information available and not properly educated. In contrast if the mother and child are fed an omni diet, with no other outside factors, there are less likely to be health issues.
The other issue is that many vegans totally cut out fats, which are essential to processing many of the vitamins and nutrients that the body needs. The most effective and efficient way of getting these fats are, and always will be, by eating animals. It appears likely that you ensure your son is getting fats in some way, for he looks healthy, but again many do not do this and babies and children suffer.
Fat and cholesterol are very important components in human milk. In fact, the milk from a healthy mother has about 50 to 60 percent of its energy as fat. The cholesterol in human milk supplies an infant with close to six times the amount most adults consume from their food. This is not by accident...
When a woman has many children, the level of fat in her milk usually decreases with each succeeding child. This will not happen, however, if the mother maintains a high quality diet. Traditionally, in some parts of the world, such as China, the new mother is given a diet very high in animal fat that includes 6-10 eggs a day and almost 10 ounces of chicken and pork for at least a month after the birth of her infant. This diet ensures that the level of fat in her milk is as high as possible.0 -
I didn't realize we were being extremely literal. :P Sorry, I know you did not say it was a death sentence - I'm sorry if it seems I was putting words in your mouth. I'm just very sarcastic and snarky and it was the wrong time to be it. All I'm saying it's very possible and personally I don't feel it's hard to raise a healthy nutritionally balanced monster vegan child.
Spawn eats nuts, avocados, olive oil, and various other healthy fats. We use chia seeds, flax seeds, nutritional yeast, etc all in our daily meals. His cholesterol is perfect (I'd have to dig out the paperwork to get numbers), Iron levels are good, B12 levels are good, etc.
I will admit that I am not 100% how breastfeeding would have ended up in the end. I was only able to do it for a month before I had to go back on my medicine . . I had a choice between breastfeeding and drastically stunting his mental growth with me ending up in the hospital or him going on formula
Still upset about that. But I saw a nutritionist at the start of my pregnancy and after her giving me examples of a balanced diet for pregnancy and then for breastfeeding, I think we ended up doing pretty well.
You do have valid points/concerns and I acknowledge that. Most people (vegan or not) don't consider how easy it is to miss various nutrients, healthy fats, etc. But I read a little, talked to multiple medical professionals, and used common sense. I even talked to people who were raised vegan and went on to eat meat/dairy as an adult to see how they adjusted/what problems they had.
If a health problem arises or even he makes a choice to eat meat then we will all adjust. . But I seriously, as I keep whining, don't believe it's difficult if you have common sense and basic knowledge on how a human body works.0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.
There's the rub, these kids are not being fed soda and cookies, they are being fed a plant based diet with no animal products or dairy. Many have died, and the parents tried for their negligence:
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
This is NOT propoganda by the site in the link, but real world examples of babies dying on vegan diets. There have also been documented cases of vegan babies with diseases like rickets, brain damage and other developmental issues. In some cases the issues are reversed by introducing animal milk and meats.
These babies were starved and neglected. Now should we blame omnivorism for the meat-eating parents who starve and neglect their babies? And while we're at it, let's indict the parents of obese children who are fed an omni diet. There are a lot of those we can point to.
How about the vegan tots who DON'T make headlines for having d-bags for parents?
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren
Who said there isn't abuse and neglect with other people? The point is that these children died as a direct result of being fed a vegan diet during times in which they should not be. The ONLY time you're going to hear about an omivourous child dying due to malnutrtion is when they are NOT FED AT ALL, or not in sufficient quantities...not because the nutrtion of the diet is lacking in general.
And that begs the point, if a vegan diet is not nutritionally sound for a developing human body, what in the world makes anyone think that it is good for the human body ANY time in life?
Look, I get the moral or ethical objections to eating meat. But to pass off veganism as some magical pathway to health is silly at best. You won't get any argument from me that much of the diet of anyone should probably be comprised of vegtables and fruits (preferrable much more vegtables than fruits), but the place in the human diet for animal proteins is well established and necessary for proper hormonal balance, and in the case of children, proper development and health.
Well you need to take this up with the American and Canadian Dietetic Associations then, as they are the ones claiming that a vegan diet is nutritionally sound for all stages of life. And you need to get in touch with all the parents of vegan children, and tell them their children aren't healthy. You're qualified, right? I mean, you've totally read stories about vegan kids who died from being neglected so that trumps any real credentials or knowledge in the matter.0 -
Don't worry about the snark, we're having a debate so I'm not taking anything personally.
It just drives me crazy when people doggedly cling to something that is obviously damaging to a small child. If the child is not getting nutrition, not growing and doctors are cautioning them that their diet is inadequate to provide sustinance to a child that they are nursing, and they STILL do nothing to correct it they deserve anything the law can throw at them.
And again, I can see the ethical or moral decision making that leads someone to not want to consume animals. As an animal lover I understand that well, but to lead someone down the path that humans are meant to be vegan and evolved that way flies in the face of science. To also ignore any warning signs and accept diminishing health (that many experience, I've seen it first hand with people close to me, so I feel I have a place to comment) as "normal" seems foolish. To subject a child in their care to the same types of problems (when and if they do occur) and to do nothing is tragic. When my nephew had trouble developing, was falling FAR behind in school and genetics and environment didn't seem to be the factors, thankfully my sister was observant enough to see the warnings and he's done much better as an omni on a paleo diet. Many of the same tennants hold true for both, trying to eat whole, unprocessed foods, locally grown and hormone and chemical free, just one is eating animals in addition to produce.0 -
Except for the cases where children die from being forced to eat a vegan diet while developing right?
Vegan does not necessarily equate to healthy (i.e. Oreo cookies and soda are technically vegan).
I think parents need to make decisions for their children, but there is research to support a whole foods, plant-based diet:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/frequently-asked-questions-about-nutrition#VeganKids
http://www.kidsgethealthy.org/
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/nutrition/Pages/Vegetartian-Diet-for-Children.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
http://books.google.com/books?id=o2SwL-zK6O0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
The only vitamin that one cannot get from a vegan diet is B12. B12 is a bacteria found in dirt. One can get it from eating dirt, eating dirty produce, eating animals that eat food from the ground thus eating dirt, eating enriched foods, or supplementing.
People just need to eat more natural produce. Period.
There's the rub, these kids are not being fed soda and cookies, they are being fed a plant based diet with no animal products or dairy. Many have died, and the parents tried for their negligence:
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html
This is NOT propoganda by the site in the link, but real world examples of babies dying on vegan diets. There have also been documented cases of vegan babies with diseases like rickets, brain damage and other developmental issues. In some cases the issues are reversed by introducing animal milk and meats.
These babies were starved and neglected. Now should we blame omnivorism for the meat-eating parents who starve and neglect their babies? And while we're at it, let's indict the parents of obese children who are fed an omni diet. There are a lot of those we can point to.
How about the vegan tots who DON'T make headlines for having d-bags for parents?
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren
Who said there isn't abuse and neglect with other people? The point is that these children died as a direct result of being fed a vegan diet during times in which they should not be. The ONLY time you're going to hear about an omivourous child dying due to malnutrtion is when they are NOT FED AT ALL, or not in sufficient quantities...not because the nutrtion of the diet is lacking in general.
And that begs the point, if a vegan diet is not nutritionally sound for a developing human body, what in the world makes anyone think that it is good for the human body ANY time in life?
Look, I get the moral or ethical objections to eating meat. But to pass off veganism as some magical pathway to health is silly at best. You won't get any argument from me that much of the diet of anyone should probably be comprised of vegtables and fruits (preferrable much more vegtables than fruits), but the place in the human diet for animal proteins is well established and necessary for proper hormonal balance, and in the case of children, proper development and health.
Well you need to take this up with the American and Canadian Dietetic Associations then, as they are the ones claiming that a vegan diet is nutritionally sound for all stages of life. And you need to get in touch with all the parents of vegan children, and tell them their children aren't healthy. You're qualified, right? I mean, you've totally read stories about vegan kids who died from being neglected so that trumps any real credentials or knowledge in the matter.
Well since lobbying and cronyism are rampant in agencies like that, so I think that I'll stick to common sense and real world experience as well as carful observation to make my judgement calls. I don't need some agency to tell me what to eat and how bad I should feel if I'm not eating a certain way. I know that I feel like **** when I don't eat meat, and much better when I do. Considering that I have vegans in my family and others that I know personally in my life I have some qualifications to speak on the matter from a practical stand point.
Again considering that these children died, and medical examinations revealed that nutrition was to blame, I think that speaks volumes. If the child had been fed decidedly un-vegan (at last check there are NO vegan infant formulas on the market in the US AT ALL. Likely because companies don't want to be sued...) formula at the VERY LEAST, chances are they'd have lived. Granted, their parent are still f**cking mornons, but the child in many of these cases would have lived longer/long enough to be able to have a fighting chance.
I believe that breast milk is still considered vegan (to most, except the really deluded hardcore vegans), but if the nutrition in the milk is not sufficient to sustain the baby, you might as well starve the child outright anyway. Growing humans never have been, nor never will adapt to be vegan by nature, it's a simple fact of biology.0 -
Well since lobbying and cronyism are rampant in agencies like that,
No one has more effective or powerful lobbying than the meat and dairy industries.
I mean the discussion has taken a turn for the ridiculous here and I'm really done with it. Believe what you want, but be careful about what you post as fact and be willing to substantiate what you say with something more credible than "I know what I know and what I think is always right." LOL0 -
Well since lobbying and cronyism are rampant in agencies like that,
No one has more effective or powerful lobbying than the meat and dairy industries.
I mean the discussion has taken a turn for the ridiculous here and I'm really done with it. Believe what you want, but be careful about what you post as fact and be willing to substantiate what you say with something more credible than "I know what I know and what I think is always right." LOL
I'm pretty sure the grain industry, or I might as well call them the USDA here in the US is the most powerful of them all. That being said I don't take advice from meat councils or dairy councils either.
You can believe all you want that veganism is the superior diet and safe for all stages of life. Medical examinations of dead children would conclude otherwise.0 -
Pardon me if I repeat something that already has been said.
I was a lacto-ova vegetarian (ate dairy and eggs) from ages 10-41, and have now been a vegan for almost 8 years.
What I noticed right away after going vegan was that my abdomen didn't bloat anymore.
I've checked my labs for iron, and low red blood cell anemia (iron is needed to make healthy red blood cells) which have been consistently good.
Recently I discovered that my vitamin D level was very low, and so have been taking a high dose of ergocalciferol (vegan form of vitamin D, otherwise known as vitamin D2) once a week that the MD prescribed, and after about 2 weeks I started feeling a lot better (I had been feeling really tired and just felt 'blah'). I've been noticing, too, that the intense craving I had for sugar completely resolved.
I did some research and found that there are just a few vegan foods that contain significant amounts of vitamin D, most notably UV-exposed mushrooms and nutritional yeast. Being exposed to sunlight for 15 minutes/day during the most intense part of the day (10 am - 2 pm), WITHOUT wearing sunscreen, is sufficient for us to make enough of our own vitamin D3; I've also read that this is effective if just your forearms and face are exposed (I guess there's no need to break out the bikini during your lunch break!). Another source advises to not clean the sun-exposed area with soap, as this washes away the vitamin D3 that your sun-exposed skin makes from a cholesterol substance called provitamin D3.
There are nutritional challenges with ANY diet. Since most people eat an omnivore diet, we don't think about deficiencies of the average diet, but there ARE deficiencies in the way MANY omnivores eat; and, or course, there are many diseases that go along with eating the average American diet.
There is a great book called 'Becoming Vegan,' written by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina, both registered dietitians (master's degree in nutrition). Another great book is called 'The China Study,' by Dr. T. Colin Campbell - it's a book about a 27-year study correlating diet with disease.
Anyway, I just want to say that a vegan diet is very do-able, and after a while it will become second nature and you won't even have to think about it and it will no longer feel 'hard,' as some people view it.
A great way to transition is to join a vegan group. I live in the Sacramento, California, area and we have a great vegan group here.0 -
That is a great response, Jecker. Thank you for posting it.0
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I just want to point out, "The China Study" has been thoroughly debunked as cherry picked nonsense.Pardon me if I repeat something that already has been said.
I was a lacto-ova vegetarian (ate dairy and eggs) from ages 10-41, and have now been a vegan for almost 8 years.
What I noticed right away after going vegan was that my abdomen didn't bloat anymore.
I've checked my labs for iron, and low red blood cell anemia (iron is needed to make healthy red blood cells) which have been consistently good.
Recently I discovered that my vitamin D level was very low, and so have been taking a high dose of ergocalciferol (vegan form of vitamin D, otherwise known as vitamin D2) once a week that the MD prescribed, and after about 2 weeks I started feeling a lot better (I had been feeling really tired and just felt 'blah'). I've been noticing, too, that the intense craving I had for sugar completely resolved.
I did some research and found that there are just a few vegan foods that contain significant amounts of vitamin D, most notably UV-exposed mushrooms and nutritional yeast. Being exposed to sunlight for 15 minutes/day during the most intense part of the day (10 am - 2 pm), WITHOUT wearing sunscreen, is sufficient for us to make enough of our own vitamin D3; I've also read that this is effective if just your forearms and face are exposed (I guess there's no need to break out the bikini during your lunch break!). Another source advises to not clean the sun-exposed area with soap, as this washes away the vitamin D3 that your sun-exposed skin makes from a cholesterol substance called provitamin D3.
There are nutritional challenges with ANY diet. Since most people eat an omnivore diet, we don't think about deficiencies of the average diet, but there ARE deficiencies in the way MANY omnivores eat; and, or course, there are many diseases that go along with eating the average American diet.
There is a great book called 'Becoming Vegan,' written by Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina, both registered dietitians (master's degree in nutrition). Another great book is called 'The China Study,' by Dr. T. Colin Campbell - it's a book about a 27-year study correlating diet with disease.
Anyway, I just want to say that a vegan diet is very do-able, and after a while it will become second nature and you won't even have to think about it and it will no longer feel 'hard,' as some people view it.
A great way to transition is to join a vegan group. I live in the Sacramento, California, area and we have a great vegan group here.0 -
Thank you for all your support!
And yes I'm thinking about change my diet step by step, as I currently eat a lot of fish!
I'll start eating only fish and then cut all the other animal products
I am in the same place as you - I've given up meats but not seafood. I still eat some eggs, but winding that down. Braggs Amino Acids (in with vinegars) is a staple for vegans. You can get all you need on a vegan diet - variety is key! I am the only person in my family that is heading down the vegan road - my niece is a pescitarian - but that is as close as I get in my family. Live for you and what feels right for your ideals.0
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