when people don't know what they're talking about...
love4fitnesslove4food_wechange
Posts: 6,897 Member
in Chit-Chat
Why do they feel compelled to offer advice that's grounded in nothing more than some random "conventional wisdom" or "diet myth" that lacks any scientific validity?
I understand differing viewpoints--2 sides that both have support--but I'm talking about individuals who would respond with something like...
"Oh, so you're not losing--definitely stop eating at 7pm. Then you'll get result. Everything you eat turns to fat at night."
as opposed to...
"Studies demonstrate that individuals are more likely to consume EXCESS calories at night, however, this isn't a hard and fast rule because you can account for nighttime snacking in planning your day. It isn't the time of day, per se, that causes fat gain but merely consuming more calories than you expend. If you cut out nighttime eating you're more likely to maintain a calorie balance conducive to weight loss or weight maintenance."
Do you get what I'm saying? I just don't understand WHY people feel knowledgeable enough to offer advice if INSIDE they know they have no real reason to believe what they're spewing.
Thoughts?
I understand differing viewpoints--2 sides that both have support--but I'm talking about individuals who would respond with something like...
"Oh, so you're not losing--definitely stop eating at 7pm. Then you'll get result. Everything you eat turns to fat at night."
as opposed to...
"Studies demonstrate that individuals are more likely to consume EXCESS calories at night, however, this isn't a hard and fast rule because you can account for nighttime snacking in planning your day. It isn't the time of day, per se, that causes fat gain but merely consuming more calories than you expend. If you cut out nighttime eating you're more likely to maintain a calorie balance conducive to weight loss or weight maintenance."
Do you get what I'm saying? I just don't understand WHY people feel knowledgeable enough to offer advice if INSIDE they know they have no real reason to believe what they're spewing.
Thoughts?
0
Replies
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Oooh! My favorite: "You have to eat at 1,800 calories a day and you have to eat 6 small meals a day and make sure you're eating every 2 hours."
Sorry but for me 1,800 calories is way too much and I've done the 6 small meals and gained weight doing that and I wasn't eating anything unhealthy -- 1/2 cup yogurt? 1/2 cup cottage cheese? Fruit? Veggies?! Yup. Gained weight doing that.
People just like to think they know what they're talking about because it's what they've heard or what the Omnipotent "THEY" have said.0 -
This threw me off a lot when I first started on MFP. So much conflicting info with no back-up. I had no idea what to do.
I still believe I know nothing about diet and exercise and what is best, but man, coming on here and seeing so much information being thrown at you with no reason is overwhelming and misleading for someone who is just starting out.0 -
Is this a trap? You're slamming people for offering advice, but asking opinions?
Okay. I'll bite.
The more life experience a person has, the more likely thay are to offer up what has worked for them or what they have experienced. It ain't all pearls of wisdom, but neither should it be dismissed if it doesn't come with documented argument or doesn't happen to coincide with your own opinions.
When all is said and done, you have to use a little common sense. It also helps if you are looking for actual advice or just someone to agree with your opinion.0 -
Some people don't know what they're talking about, but many of them have no idea that they don't know what they're talking about.
When I decided I wanted to lose weight, I studied and researched and talked to experts like it was my job because that's just what I do when I want to get to the truth of what works and what doesn't. Some of it turned out to be right for me, and some of it didn't, but the only way for me to learn was through experience. Many people will turn to a friend or relative or their doctor or someone who has no idea how to eat or work out for fat loss, muscle gains, etc. And they just believe whatever they are told instead of doing their own research.0 -
when you point out that a response or advice is wrong suddenly you are violating the "isnt this a place for support?" motto. I am accused of being rude and a jerk by telling someone that the information they are providing is wrong. Too blunt? perhaps but wrong is wrong.0
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Oooh! My favorite: "You have to eat at 1,800 calories a day and you have to eat 6 small meals a day and make sure you're eating every 2 hours."
Sorry but for me 1,800 calories is way too much and I've done the 6 small meals and gained weight doing that and I wasn't eating anything unhealthy -- 1/2 cup yogurt? 1/2 cup cottage cheese? Fruit? Veggies?! Yup. Gained weight doing that.
People just like to think they know what they're talking about because it's what they've heard or what the Omnipotent "THEY" have said.
Umm well this is EXACTLY what is working for me. Usually we respond with that advice to the people that are starving themselves on 1200 calories/ day (netting 600ish after exercise) and they're stuck in a starving/binging cycle asking for help. Well guess what? This has worked miracles for me and many other people so I'm going to offer it.0 -
Is this a trap? You're slamming people for offering advice, but asking opinions?
Okay. I'll bite.
The more life experience a person has, the more likely thay are to offer up what has worked for them or what they have experienced. It ain't all pearls of wisdom, but neither should it be dismissed if it doesn't come with documented argument or doesn't happen to coincide with your own opinions.
When all is said and done, you have to use a little common sense. It also helps if you are looking for actual advice or just someone to agree with your opinion.
great post!0 -
Because that's 1 sentence vs 3, a whole lot more typing and the person is still unlikely to listen anyway. I used to post the study and the link. Then I realized most...and I said most...are looking for advice to confirm their own beliefs.0
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Just take advice from only people that are more fit than you.. problem solved...0
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when you point out that a response or advice is wrong suddenly you are violating the "isnt this a place for support?" motto. I am accused of being rude and a jerk by telling someone that the information they are providing is wrong. Too blunt? perhaps but wrong is wrong.
Agreed!!0 -
Because many people suffer from self-righteous indignation that tells them that they are right and everyone else is wrong. The internet becomes their outlet for this, and they do it to build their own self-esteem.0
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Because people are generally very lazy about doing their homework on diet myths and, strangely enough, seem to think that losing weight has to be incredibly difficult with a huge regimented schedule of eating, a list of "acceptable" foods, and a list of "approved" workouts. Why? Because that is what the media and advertising industry told them. "Dr. Oz says to take this supplement and eat 15 times per day and you'll drop those annoying 10 lbs this week!" "Turn your body into a fat burning machine by taking this energy drink 2x per day!" "Inject yourself with this hormone to stimulate MAXIMUM belly fat loss."
I will never understand this behavior either, but it seems to be the case. The saddest part about it is that these people continue to push out these myths and make weight loss seem impossible to others who really need to do it. Similarly, many of those folks try to follow all the silly rules and "diet" plans and fail as a result when eating less and moving more is all they really needed to do in the first place.0 -
thoughts?
I love you.
Thank you.
Youre awesome.0 -
Everyone think they know how to diet.0
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Just take advice from only people that are more fit than you.. problem solved...
Danger Will Robinson!0 -
when you point out that a response or advice is wrong suddenly you are violating the "isnt this a place for support?" motto. I am accused of being rude and a jerk by telling someone that the information they are providing is wrong. Too blunt? perhaps but wrong is wrong.
So very much THIS.
You can shove support. I'm here to learn. I can look in a mirror and tell myself I'm the prettiest girl in the world. What I need from MFP is sound advice on nutrition and exercise.
If you want everyone to tell you what a GOOD JOB you're doing go to your friends on your page. If you want the truth, well that's what the forums are for. You just have to wade through a bit of nonsense, but you can find it.
Good advice: Trust long time users who have reached their goals. Ignore whoever signed up last week and wants to tell you what they heard on Dr. Oz.0 -
LOLJust take advice from only people that are more fit than you.. problem solved...
Danger Will Robinson!0 -
Oooh! My favorite: "You have to eat at 1,800 calories a day and you have to eat 6 small meals a day and make sure you're eating every 2 hours."
Sorry but for me 1,800 calories is way too much and I've done the 6 small meals and gained weight doing that and I wasn't eating anything unhealthy -- 1/2 cup yogurt? 1/2 cup cottage cheese? Fruit? Veggies?! Yup. Gained weight doing that.
People just like to think they know what they're talking about because it's what they've heard or what the Omnipotent "THEY" have said.
Umm well this is EXACTLY what is working for me. Usually we respond with that advice to the people that are starving themselves on 1200 calories/ day (netting 600ish after exercise) and they're stuck in a starving/binging cycle asking for help. Well guess what? This has worked miracles for me and many other people so I'm going to offer it.
And that's awesome that it's working for you but my point is there is no blanket "You must eat this much to lose weight." As I stated in my post I have tried the small meals, eating more calories while continuing to exercise as hard as I do and I didn't drop any weight but found myself gaining. What works for you might not work for me or some one else.0 -
I just think...wouldn't it be nice if what works for one worked for all. If we all needed the same calories and to burn the calories in the same way for it to work this would be a lot easier.0
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LOLJust take advice from only people that are more fit than you.. problem solved...
Danger Will Robinson!
Hehe! Here's why I think that's a slightly dangerous piece of advice...
For example, my mother's friend is "seeing a doctor" in Chicago who has this GREAT medicine called HCG. She's lost 30lbs in 30 days under the supervision of a DOCTOR. Her sex drive is back, she feels amazing, has all this energy, etc...
Well, she's lost a hella lot more than my mother doing it the old fashion way... cutting calories & walking essentially. So, of COURSE this sounds appealing to her. Her friend is having more success!
Doesn't make it right...
But I hate the HCG diet, so let's be clear on that *LOL*0 -
In Tom Venuto's round up of 2011 he made these points:
It’s more important than ever to embrace evidence-based fitness. There are so many scams online today in weight loss, health and fitness and the internet can deliver them so persuasively and quickly before they come and go, you must learn to demand proof before you buy into anything. Investigate before you invest. Logic and common sense help, but I’m talking about science; peer reviewed, published research. And remember what Carl Sagan said: the more extraordinary the claims, the more extraordinary the evidence must be.
Don’t get so caught up in research papers that you ignore real world results. The greatest philosophy of all: see what the research says. See what the real world says. Take BOTH into consideration. Ultimately the results from your “experiment of one†are what count. Recent conversation: Reader: “Hey Tom, some of that stuff you bodybuilders do is ‘broscience’ …. Tom: “Thanks for your opinion. Now, let me show you my trophy roomâ€
The best signature file I’ve seen all year. Scientific literacy is important, but this signature file gave me the best chuckle of the year: “Bro science: a term used by the scientific and pseudo-scientific community to try to discredit people who often have more experience and better results, but may not be able to argue as well about unimportant things on the internet.â€
Which I agree with completely.0 -
Oooh! My favorite: "You have to eat at 1,800 calories a day and you have to eat 6 small meals a day and make sure you're eating every 2 hours."
Sorry but for me 1,800 calories is way too much and I've done the 6 small meals and gained weight doing that and I wasn't eating anything unhealthy -- 1/2 cup yogurt? 1/2 cup cottage cheese? Fruit? Veggies?! Yup. Gained weight doing that.
People just like to think they know what they're talking about because it's what they've heard or what the Omnipotent "THEY" have said.
Umm well this is EXACTLY what is working for me. Usually we respond with that advice to the people that are starving themselves on 1200 calories/ day (netting 600ish after exercise) and they're stuck in a starving/binging cycle asking for help. Well guess what? This has worked miracles for me and many other people so I'm going to offer it.
And that's awesome that it's working for you but my point is there is no blanket "You must eat this much to lose weight." As I stated in my post I have tried the small meals, eating more calories while continuing to exercise as hard as I do and I didn't drop any weight but found myself gaining. What works for you might not work for me or some one else.
When you state that it doesn't work (and insult the entire plan) that is just as offensive to me as if I stated it's the only way to lose weight. I would never say it's the only way, but if I see someone asking for help, and they appear to be in the same boat I was in, I will offer it. :flowerforyou: (no hard feelings just debating)
Generally I've come to believe there are various ways people can lose weight and people should experiment to see what works best for them. What works for me now probably wouldn't have worked for me 20 lbs ago. I also agree it's obnoxious when some dingbat tries to tell you avocados are fatty and you shouldn't eat them while they're eating a cheeseburger *eye roll*0 -
LOLJust take advice from only people that are more fit than you.. problem solved...
Danger Will Robinson!
Hehe! Here's why I think that's a slightly dangerous piece of advice...
For example, my mother's friend is "seeing a doctor" in Chicago who has this GREAT medicine called HCG. She's lost 30lbs in 30 days under the supervision of a DOCTOR. Her sex drive is back, she feels amazing, has all this energy, etc...
Well, she's lost a hella lot more than my mother doing it the old fashion way... cutting calories & walking essentially. So, of COURSE this sounds appealing to her. Her friend is having more success!
Doesn't make it right...
But I hate the HCG diet, so let's be clear on that *LOL*
Well here's the thing... advice is only an advice.. at the end of the day you're going to do what you still feel is right for you... If you dont believe in HCG, then someone offering you to take it is something that you probably wont do... I take advice from people that I see being more fit than me visually... I'll ask for specifics on what exactly they did to get to that point. I'll take the advice, but in all reality, if it's not what I wanted to hear, I probably wont do it.
The *LOL* was there because I knew a story was coming...0 -
Is this a trap? You're slamming people for offering advice, but asking opinions?
Okay. I'll bite.
The more life experience a person has, the more likely thay are to offer up what has worked for them or what they have experienced. It ain't all pearls of wisdom, but neither should it be dismissed if it doesn't come with documented argument or doesn't happen to coincide with your own opinions.
When all is said and done, you have to use a little common sense. It also helps if you are looking for actual advice or just someone to agree with your opinion.
well put roaddog0 -
LOVE THIS!!when you point out that a response or advice is wrong suddenly you are violating the "isnt this a place for support?" motto. I am accused of being rude and a jerk by telling someone that the information they are providing is wrong. Too blunt? perhaps but wrong is wrong.
So very much THIS.
You can shove support. I'm here to learn. I can look in a mirror and tell myself I'm the prettiest girl in the world. What I need from MFP is sound advice on nutrition and exercise.
If you want everyone to tell you what a GOOD JOB you're doing go to your friends on your page. If you want the truth, well that's what the forums are for. You just have to wade through a bit of nonsense, but you can find it.
Good advice: Trust long time users who have reached their goals. Ignore whoever signed up last week and wants to tell you what they heard on Dr. Oz.0 -
Is this a trap? You're slamming people for offering advice, but asking opinions?
Okay. I'll bite.
The more life experience a person has, the more likely thay are to offer up what has worked for them or what they have experienced. It ain't all pearls of wisdom, but neither should it be dismissed if it doesn't come with documented argument or doesn't happen to coincide with your own opinions.
When all is said and done, you have to use a little common sense. It also helps if you are looking for actual advice or just someone to agree with your opinion.
THIS!!!0 -
What I've learned is to do the exact opposite of what is told to me. Once I did that everything fell into place.
Eat small meals throughout the day - I eat my biggest meal at night and don't eat a lot during the day.
Make whole grains the main part of your diet. I stopped eating them (along with flour) and feel normal for the first time in my life. This part is a long, long list of positive changes to my body that I won't go into.
Fat is bad for you. Fat makes you fat. Well, I eat more fat than anything and instead of getting fatter I got smaller - the smallest I have been in my entire life. And I eat lots of saturated fat (The body converts excess carbs into saturated fat and stores it. How in the hell is it so bad for us if we store fat as saturated fat? Mother Nature didn't not get it wrong.)
The diet world is full of misinformation based on flawed science. Doctors know nothing about nutrition. Most nutritionists and trainers only know what they believe to be true.
I will give advice that I know worked for me. I have been attacked more than once on this site for giving advice that goes against the conventional wisdom (it ain't just about calories. I have also learned this). I don't care, though. Some people will read it and try it. Some people won't. What is wrong advice for one person could be perfect advice for someone else.0 -
You're not eating enough:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0
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The *LOL* was there because I knew a story was coming...
I like talking too much... it's a character flaw right up there with my love of boobies. Forgive me ;-)0 -
Is this a trap? You're slamming people for offering advice, but asking opinions?
Okay. I'll bite.
The more life experience a person has, the more likely thay are to offer up what has worked for them or what they have experienced. It ain't all pearls of wisdom, but neither should it be dismissed if it doesn't come with documented argument or doesn't happen to coincide with your own opinions.
When all is said and done, you have to use a little common sense. It also helps if you are looking for actual advice or just someone to agree with your opinion.
I can't imagine why you'd think it's a trap unless you assume the OP's request for thoughts must necessarily mean she wants advice, which doesn't make much sense.
Additionally, I'm not sure why I would want to place any value on someone else's life experiences (at least with regard to weight loss and fitness) without also knowing why whatever technique worked for that person. If I'm going to make guesses, I'd prefer they be educated guesses.0
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