What do doctors know? (warning: rant)
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LabRat529
Posts: 1,323 Member
Okay... so I'll be the first to tell you that the M.D. or Ph.D. behind your name is not magic. It does not make you a god. It does not make you infallible. But good heavens. I keep seeing people post about something their doctor suggested and then a whole bunch of people who are NOT DOCTORS come in and tell that person, 'oh, doctors aren't experts in nutrition, you should ignore their advice' or 'only you can decide what's right for your body' or whatever.
It makes me grouchy. (Unless you're ignoring Dr. Oz. HE makes me grouchy and I'd rather you ignore him, but that's another rant...)
Because... here's the deal. Maybe doctors don't have the classes upon classes upon classes about diet and nutrition that a dietitian has, BUT they do have classes upon classes upon classes about how the human body works.
The human body is incredibly complicated and it's pretty tough to learn everything there is to know about the human body. That's why there are specialists. A general practitioner could never learn it all. And so, yes, doctors aren't going to have all the answer and it is always a good idea to question the information they give you and it's always a good idea to ask for a referral to a specialist if you think it would be helpful.
HOWEVER... the flippant attitude that some people have about doctors (and scientists) is crazy. Odds are, your general practitioner is going to know a heck of a lot more about the human body than an accountant or computer scientist or even a biochemist or pharmacologist/neuroscientist (like me) on MFP.
Please don't dismiss your doctors' advice on a whim or on the council of an MFPer. Read, study, learn what you need to know so that you can be a good consumer. Push for the care you need... but don't be foolish. Don't ignore medical advice unless you've got a good reason to believe your doctor is wrong.
I don't even ignore my doctors' advice... I DO make them explain their rational to me and if I disagree, I'll tell them I disagree and I'll tell them why... but in the end, I follow their advice.
Now of course if they're suggesting Paleo, feel free to label them a quack and move on**.
**I'M KIDDING! I'm kidding. Paleo works for some people and some doctors will recommend it because they've seen good results. I'm just biased against Paleo.
It makes me grouchy. (Unless you're ignoring Dr. Oz. HE makes me grouchy and I'd rather you ignore him, but that's another rant...)
Because... here's the deal. Maybe doctors don't have the classes upon classes upon classes about diet and nutrition that a dietitian has, BUT they do have classes upon classes upon classes about how the human body works.
The human body is incredibly complicated and it's pretty tough to learn everything there is to know about the human body. That's why there are specialists. A general practitioner could never learn it all. And so, yes, doctors aren't going to have all the answer and it is always a good idea to question the information they give you and it's always a good idea to ask for a referral to a specialist if you think it would be helpful.
HOWEVER... the flippant attitude that some people have about doctors (and scientists) is crazy. Odds are, your general practitioner is going to know a heck of a lot more about the human body than an accountant or computer scientist or even a biochemist or pharmacologist/neuroscientist (like me) on MFP.
Please don't dismiss your doctors' advice on a whim or on the council of an MFPer. Read, study, learn what you need to know so that you can be a good consumer. Push for the care you need... but don't be foolish. Don't ignore medical advice unless you've got a good reason to believe your doctor is wrong.
I don't even ignore my doctors' advice... I DO make them explain their rational to me and if I disagree, I'll tell them I disagree and I'll tell them why... but in the end, I follow their advice.
Now of course if they're suggesting Paleo, feel free to label them a quack and move on**.
**I'M KIDDING! I'm kidding. Paleo works for some people and some doctors will recommend it because they've seen good results. I'm just biased against Paleo.
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I love you so much.
:flowerforyou: 0 -
like!0
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I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.
Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.
The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.
That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.
As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).0 -
Most of the instances I've seen include the standard "eat 1200 calories a day and exercise to lose weight". In the meantime, your general practitioner is thinking, "Why is this person here asking me about nutrition? I hope they don't notice that I'm not even going to bother taking body fat measurements.. I hope they leave soon."0
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I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.
Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.
You can't seriously be serious.0 -
Okay... so I'll be the first to tell you that the M.D. or Ph.D. behind your name is not magic. It does not make you a god. It does not make you infallible. But good heavens. I keep seeing people post about something their doctor suggested and then a whole bunch of people who are NOT DOCTORS come in and tell that person, 'oh, doctors aren't experts in nutrition, you should ignore their advice' or 'only you can decide what's right for your body' or whatever.
When my BW came back with high cholesterol, my doctor referred me to a dietician. He told me straight out that he doesn't know enough about nutrition to advise me on it.
Most of my family are in the medical field (doctors, nurses and support staff) and they'll tell you many doctors aren't very well-versed on nutrition.0 -
I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.
Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.
The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.
That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.
As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).
Many valid points here!
I'm not saying all doctors are bad - but seriously - most doctors offices book appointments every 10 minutes, sometimes 20. How much can your doctor really cover in that short of a time?0 -
OP, I totally agree. And if I feel my doc might be wrong I will get a second or third oppoin, do some research myself and way the pros and cons. You are right docs isnt gods, but i bet they know alot more then a used car salesman on mfp0
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I wrote a post responding to MasterZeddicu's second paragraph. Then I saw that he made my exact point in his fourth paragraph. So I edited all the content out of my post. I disagreed with the first two paragraphs . . . until I saw the caveats further into his post.0 -
:blushing: :blushing: :blushing: Should learn not to post between clients......0
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Most of the instances I've seen include the standard "eat 1200 calories a day and exercise to lose weight". In the meantime, your general practitioner is thinking, "Why is this person here asking me about nutrition? I hope they don't notice that I'm not even going to bother taking body fat measurements.. I hope they leave soon."
I've never met a doctor with that attitude. I've never met one that hopes a person will leave soon or that a person doesn't notice they're not running the appropriate tests. Most primary care doctors that I've encountered do what they can with the knowledge that they have... and then they send you to a specialist if/when they think you need one.
Doctors, like every other profession, come in different flavors of 'competent'. You do, occasionally, find a quack or moron. However, the majority are well-trained professionals and it boggles me that MFPers are so quick to discard the advice on an MD because they think that the IT tech knows more about diet than their doctor.0 -
Please don't dismiss your doctors' advice on a whim or on the council of an MFPer. Read, study, learn what you need to know so that you can be a good consumer. Push for the care you need... but don't be foolish. Don't ignore medical advice unless you've got a good reason to believe your doctor is wrong.
^^^^^^ I like this
You must educate yourself, knowledge is power, ask questions, BE HONEST, and you will make good choices!!!0 -
They definitely know considerably more than the average person, but considerably less than a dietitian.
Think I'll call up my plastic surgeon and ask him what he thinks about Atkins.0 -
Hmmm I love my doctor, she is fantastic and has been 100% supportive with my weightloss and using MFP. The thing is I dont think everyone is comfortable with their practitioners to question a diagnosis or advice, I also think that many are not asking questions or the right ones. Anytime my doctor says/suggests something that would send me in enought of a tizzy to post on a public forum how "stupid/wrong/crazy" they are I flat out question it. I always get an explaination or we talk it out. either way I never leave my doctors office with an uneasy feeling. NEVER. She is always ready and able to answer and explain always. It is really up to you to ask and question if you dont like it, ask about it. If your doctor is that terrible and you dont trust them find a new doctor (yes I know this cant always happen overnight but start looking then.) by the way I had to find this doctor, I had a few before that diddnt work for me.0
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When my BW came back with high cholesterol, my doctor referred me to a dietician. He told me straight out that he doesn't know enough about nutrition to advise me on it.
Most of my family are in the medical field (doctors, nurses and support staff) and they'll tell you many doctors aren't very well-versed on nutrition.
And that, in my opinion, is the sign of a good doctor... BUT despite him advising that he doesn't know enough about nutrition to help you... he STILL probably knows way more than the people so quick to give advice on MFP.0 -
Most of the instances I've seen include the standard "eat 1200 calories a day and exercise to lose weight". In the meantime, your general practitioner is thinking, "Why is this person here asking me about nutrition? I hope they don't notice that I'm not even going to bother taking body fat measurements.. I hope they leave soon."
Wow. You seriously need to find a new doctor!0 -
I've never met a doctor with that attitude. I've never met one that hopes a person will leave soon or that a person doesn't notice they're not running the appropriate tests.
Sounds like you don't know many doctors, then. If you ask a doctor a question that is considerably outside of his scope of specialization which falls under a clearly defined separate medical field, I can guarantee you that he will raise his internal eyebrow about why you're asking him. It's like asking the local computer guy if he can fix the fax machine. Yeah, he probably can. But he secretly hopes you just call a fax guy, and you both know you'll get better results if you do.
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Wow. You seriously need to find a new doctor!
Tell ya what.. find me an instance of someone saying, "My doctor said I should eat 1350 calories per day." You won't find one. You'll find plenty of people being told to eat that magical 1200 number though.
Doesn't mean they're bad doctors. It means they're doctors that are untrained in answering the question they have been asked. It's not me who needs to find a new doctor.0 -
I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, .........
Do you get paid by your employer? Does your employer make money? Perhaps you should quit as they're biased......
Do you shop at a grocery store? Last time I looked Loblaws was a business? Maybe you better grow your own food.....
What's wrong with businesses making money? If it weren't for the "modern medical society" we would still see epidemics of measles (oh yeah, we are again because idiots don't get their children immunized), hundred if not thousands of people would die annually from polio and many of use would die before 40 from pneumonia.
Can you suggest a better alternative?
You didn't take my entire post into account when writing this and obviously did not follow the logic. Not all businesses are biased, not all hospitals are there to maximize profits. That being said there certainly are a lot that are. When you go to a restaurant some restaurants are true to their word and only use fresh ingredients, toss the junk. Some on the other hand bleach bad meat in order to serve it up to their customers. Do you know which is which?
My point was the conspiracy is bullroar (I quite literally wrote that. I suppose your eyes were too clouded with rage at what you thought you were reading, to bother taking in what I actually said.), which is why I didn't talk about it. However you always have to take something with a grain of salt and understand that not all doctors are there solely for your health, or even have good intentions. How well do you know the man/woman in-front of you?
That's why my closing statement was to take everything with a grain of salt, and ensure you understand enough to make a properly educated decision. I myself have been prescribed medication on many occasions which I really didn't need, and after further research and seeing a specialist wound up not taking as it would have done nothing to help the problem. Does that mean I distrust all doctors? No. There are a lot of them who went through med school for the sole purpose of wanting to help others. It does mean that I make sure I understand what I'm taking, and why I'm taking it, and I make sure to make it my business to understand a problem before I go see a doctor so I can make an educated decision on his advice.
Hope that clarifies everything for you, and that you can take the time to read a whole post and understand it's full context next time.0 -
They definitely know considerably more than the average person, but considerably less than a dietitian.
Think I'll call up my plastic surgeon and ask him what he thinks about Atkins.
I'll bet your plastic surgeon knows a lot more about nutrition than the computer science geek (who might not be a computer science geek at all) on MFP.
Probably, he'd roll his eyes at you and refer you to a dietitian/nutritionist.
You did read my post, right?
My point was NOT: go to any random doctor for nutrition advice. My point was that: even the general practitioner is a good bet for good advice and you shouldn't ignore the general practitioners' advice in favor of some random person on MFP. Example: If your doctor tells you to eat more, then you should probably eat more even if your friends tell you, "aww, honey... only you know what your body really needs!"
P.S. I know A LOT of doctors. I work in the medical field. 99% of the ones I know are genuinely compassionate and genuinely concerned about the well-being of others. They might occasionally be misguided and their knowledge might not be 100% up to date, but they still usually give good advice, and many are solidly informed. Unlike us MFPers, they don't get blown around *quite* as much by the winds of whatever is new and exciting. Some get sucked into fads. But it takes more work to lead a doctor astray about health than it takes to lead a car salesman.0
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