What do doctors know? (warning: rant)

Marll

alrighty then :huh:

Exactly. I'll not convince anyone in this thread, and I'm still not saying come to MFP for a medical opinion, but if you really think that you can blindly trust anyone in the medical profession to do a good job you are either very trusting or a fool. Long story short, do your own research, educate yourself on your conditions and ask questions, if something doesn't seem right, call them on it.

grinch031

I tend to trust specialists with a good reputation, but not so much general practitioners. But when it comes to dietary advice, I can't trust any of the health organizations, so I certainly won't trust a doctor.

watboy

My good friend was diagnosed with Copd In 2007 he was wrong it was Lung Cancer. A family member was told her pain was all on her head and the Dr. even laughed at her, she had to go to 5 different Dr.s over 6 years and it turns out she had a rare form of arthritis. So sometimes Drs. get it wrong. Sometimes they get it right.

alrighty then :huh:

Exactly. I'll not convince anyone in this thread, and I'm still not saying come to MFP for a medical opinion, but if you really think that you can blindly trust anyone in the medical profession to do a good job you are either very trusting or a fool. Long story short, do your own research, educate yourself on your conditions and ask questions, if something doesn't seem right, call them on it.

MasterZeddicus

and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

And where is this mindblowing "fact" from? My guess is somewhere the sun doesn't shine. That is such complete and utter bull. Do me a favor and don't post BS on the internet and claim it as a fact when it is nothing more than garbage you made up based on your own personal bias. Chances are the same nurses you are badmouthing are the same people often catching errors that could potentially be killing the people you love made by others- orders by doctors, miscalculations by pharmacy. Sure, human error happens, sometimes by nurses. But 1/4 of the decisions in their shift. What a freaking crock of crap.

Thank you! And well said!

Actually it was a statistic from Mgill university in montreal, they were studying the effect of pressure, stress, and overtime hours on nurses and the way they handle decision structures. I will gladly ask for the study from the references section in the library and make a copy if you are interested. \essentially it showed that the fallibility of an average nurse working in a hospital environment was 1/4 decisions, during a double shift that became nearly half.

aboadle

Most doctors are idiots and only have a career because of that MD title. I've met way more crappy doctors than good ones. I typically don't trust anything they say beause each time I've had an issue I've had to argue with a doctor and eventually prove that I am right.

I can't imagine anyone so highly motivated just to get a title that they suffer through not just a medical degree, but an entire medical career! The learning doesn't stop once you graduate, only increases. I'd like to meet anyone who has the will power to go through all of those hours of training and pretending to care about the sick and dying just for the title. It's unimaginable. I'm not sticking up for doctors here, I agree that some don't have very good people skills and may come to hate their jobs (like anyone right?), but just for the title? Hmm.

MasterZeddicus

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.

The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.

That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.

As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).

Many valid points here!

I'm not saying all doctors are bad - but seriously - most doctors offices book appointments every 10 minutes, sometimes 20. How much can your doctor really cover in that short of a time?

a) not to burst your bubble here, but just about everything is a business. And yes, businesses are in the business to make money, but that doesn't mean they're out to screw you over. A lot of people do like to help people and find what's right for them

b) That's why you go to the same doctor consistently. I have had my share of health problems in the past and since they know my history and my body is makes it much easier. They have also put in the time and effort to figure out what the problem was and how I can go about controlling the source.

Damn people for trying to make money! Oh wait, I guess that means me too b/c i like money

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you obviously didn't read my whole post. Read my response to another who posted the same thing as you did on the first page, (My post may be on the second) and maybe you'll understand. It was enough for the first person to remove his comment, maybe youll learn enough about context to do the same.

lizzzylou

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.

The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.

That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.

As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).

Many valid points here!

I'm not saying all doctors are bad - but seriously - most doctors offices book appointments every 10 minutes, sometimes 20. How much can your doctor really cover in that short of a time?

a) not to burst your bubble here, but just about everything is a business. And yes, businesses are in the business to make money, but that doesn't mean they're out to screw you over. A lot of people do like to help people and find what's right for them

b) That's why you go to the same doctor consistently. I have had my share of health problems in the past and since they know my history and my body is makes it much easier. They have also put in the time and effort to figure out what the problem was and how I can go about controlling the source.

Damn people for trying to make money! Oh wait, I guess that means me too b/c i like money

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you obviously didn't read my whole post. Read my response to another who posted the same thing as you did on the first page, (My post may be on the second) and maybe you'll understand. It was enough for the first person to remove his comment, maybe youll learn enough about context to do the same.

I did read you post in its entirety, but you didn't really take a stance. You don't get to take both sides and be wishy-washy about it. You don't like doctors. Research yourself b/c nobody knows your body better than you. But doctors are educated an know best. However, take what people tell you about your body with a grain of salt. Nice political answer.

mnkenned

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.

Also, that physical your describing is actually a pretty thorough physical if he's doing finger-rub and whatnot. Those are physical exam skills that a lot of doctors brush over these days but are legitimately part of it. Like I said, don't brush off something that you don't fully understand - just ask!
The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.

That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.

As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).

Indeed.

I was having issues sleeping and my GP prescribed me an anti depressant. I am the least depressed person I know! I never took it but now whenever I'm not feeling well I tell my husband I'm going to go to Dr. X to get an anti depressant.

I am not a big fan of doctors. My "physical" takes all of about ten minutes and it consists of me touching my toes and my doctor whispering a number in one ear while he rustles his hand in the other to see if I'm deaf. The most I've gotten out of a physical is that I have high arches. Seriously. (And no I don't go to him all the time, just use him as the reference for the spot you're forced to fill out when asked who your GP is on forms. I pretty much go to my gyno for everything)

Prescribing that antidepressant (I'm assuming it was trazadone) was actually a really well-informed and up to date move. It doesn't have the addictive properties of benzos or the weird side effects and morning grogginess of some other things like ambien, and most of all it works. It's used all the time - if you were weirded out by the drug class you should have just talked it out with your doctor instead of just dismissing it. That said, melatonin is a good alternative.

chuckles217

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.

Also, that physical your describing is actually a pretty thorough physical if he's doing finger-rub and whatnot. Those are physical exam skills that a lot of doctors brush over these days but are legitimately part of it. Like I said, don't brush off something that you don't fully understand - just ask!
The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.

That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.

As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).

Indeed.

I was having issues sleeping and my GP prescribed me an anti depressant. I am the least depressed person I know! I never took it but now whenever I'm not feeling well I tell my husband I'm going to go to Dr. X to get an anti depressant.

I am not a big fan of doctors. My "physical" takes all of about ten minutes and it consists of me touching my toes and my doctor whispering a number in one ear while he rustles his hand in the other to see if I'm deaf. The most I've gotten out of a physical is that I have high arches. Seriously. (And no I don't go to him all the time, just use him as the reference for the spot you're forced to fill out when asked who your GP is on forms. I pretty much go to my gyno for everything)

Prescribing that antidepressant (I'm assuming it was trazadone) was actually a really well-informed and up to date move. It doesn't have the addictive properties of benzos or the weird side effects and morning grogginess of some other things like ambien, and most of all it works. It's used all the time - if you were weirded out by the drug class you should have just talked it out with your doctor instead of just dismissing it. That said, melatonin is a good alternative.

Could have been trazodone but amitryptiline is another common one. Its falls in the class of try-cyclic anti-depressant but has efficacy in low dose for sleep aid. TCAs are also used for muscle pain. Its a class of medications that have broad implications that are legit uses.

MasterZeddicus

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased. Aside from the conspiracy on the modern medicinal society which you can get enough bullroar about by using google, I would also have to point to the statistics of how many doctors make mistakes, and the fact that a nurse working a normal shift will make an error in 1/4 of her decisions.

Also while your doctor is given tons and tons of classes, they don't do a bit of good if they don't know everything about YOUR body. Every time a doctor prescribes something to you it's based on best guess. Yes they take into account what you look like when you walk through the door, your description of the symptoms etc. However in the end it really is just a quick calculation of something that matches around those symptoms.

The only way to really be sure of anything is to research yourself, know your entire body, and really understand the concept of a drug and what it's made to accomplish. That or get a family doctor who should know pretty much everything about you after 5-10 years of seeing him on a regular basis including yearly physicals.

That all being said, at least a doctors guess is an EDUCATED one. So unless you truly have taken the time to educate yourself on your body and health, and how it all functions, you should definitely take your doctors advice. You may not like the advice, but it is a thousand times better than your best guess, and DEFINITELY a million times better than some random person posting online who hasn't even SEEN you in order to understand what symptoms you have that you don't even know about. Doctors are trained to take everything into account about you from the second you walk in the door, they see subtle things that you likely don't have a clue about.

As with anything, any advice someone gives you should be taken with a grain of salt. Something like your health you should definitely research and fully understand so that you can make an educated decision at any given time. Otherwise you leave yourself at the mercy of others, either your friend who thinks they're a know it all, a random man in a white coat (who you have no idea how well he did in med school), or the internet (good people and trolls a like.).

Many valid points here!

I'm not saying all doctors are bad - but seriously - most doctors offices book appointments every 10 minutes, sometimes 20. How much can your doctor really cover in that short of a time?

a) not to burst your bubble here, but just about everything is a business. And yes, businesses are in the business to make money, but that doesn't mean they're out to screw you over. A lot of people do like to help people and find what's right for them

b) That's why you go to the same doctor consistently. I have had my share of health problems in the past and since they know my history and my body is makes it much easier. They have also put in the time and effort to figure out what the problem was and how I can go about controlling the source.

Damn people for trying to make money! Oh wait, I guess that means me too b/c i like money

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you obviously didn't read my whole post. Read my response to another who posted the same thing as you did on the first page, (My post may be on the second) and maybe you'll understand. It was enough for the first person to remove his comment, maybe youll learn enough about context to do the same.

I did read you post in its entirety, but you didn't really take a stance. You don't get to take both sides and be wishy-washy about it. You don't like doctors. Research yourself b/c nobody knows your body better than you. But doctors are educated an know best. However, take what people tell you about your body with a grain of salt. Nice political answer.

Really I thought my stance was quite clear, in lieu of research and education a doctor is your best bet. Just understand that if you turn away from informing yourself you leave yourself entirely in the hands of an individual who's motives, skill, and understanding are all things you cannot gauge.

treetop57

You don't get to take both sides and be wishy-washy about it.

Who died and made you God, errrrrrr, I mean a doctor?

Kalynx

Some times suspicion is warranted. Sometimes doctors make horrible calls and should be questioned. It's the smug attitude of so many people that work in healthcare that gets in the way. I'm not saying that there aren't difficult patients, of course there are, but many times doctors are just as bad.

agree! my general practitioner seemed to think it was not out of the norm for me to gain 40 lbs in one months time, it took me complaining several times within the next month of shortness of breath, exhaustion, other symptoms for her to send me to heart specialist who immediately told me that my general practitioner had severely under prescribed my water pill dosage (she had me on 10 mg and he changed it to 80.) That and the fact I was recovering from the flu and viral pneumonia had caused the weight gain from fluid build up. He had me do a strict course of those water pills twice a day for a week and I lost 35 lbs of water weight ..yes in a week's time and immediately felt better.

When I went back to general practitioner a few months later for something else and frankly told her how disapointed I was in her judgement she just said that it was hard to diagnose and she couldnt have known - I have seen her for 10 years and she should have known something was up (ok I've always been heavy but come on, forty lbs in ONE month???)

When I voiced concerns to heart doctor of my G.P. he said "for a cold you go see her, for anything more serious you come to me"...and thats what I do, and he sends me to other specialists if out of his realm. Have found that doing my own research so I understand what is going on and what they are saying, questioning everything, asking for second or third opinions and being very vocal is what you have to do. I think I bug the doctors sometimes with my questions and making them repeat their answers in 'dumbed down terms' until I can walk out of the office understanding what they told me, but I dont care. Blind faith is not the way to go.

rml_16

When my BW came back with high cholesterol, my doctor referred me to a dietician. He told me straight out that he doesn't know enough about nutrition to advise me on it.

Most of my family are in the medical field (doctors, nurses and support staff) and they'll tell you many doctors aren't very well-versed on nutrition.

And that, in my opinion, is the sign of a good doctor... BUT despite him advising that he doesn't know enough about nutrition to help you... he STILL probably knows way more than the people so quick to give advice on MFP.

I agree that you shouldn't discount what your doctor says in 99.9% of cases. But I have seen some posts from people where their doctors have told them some pretty outrageous things about dieting. And I've personally encountered more than my share of docs who push supplements because they're making cash on the side.

Coming from a medical family, I guess I know a little more than the average person about what makes a good doctor and what to run from. But not everyone does.

bio_fit

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business. A business has a job to make money, and as such is biased.

Surely 'modern medicine in the USA'...?

cramernh

My Endocrinologist actually has a nutritional background as far as how food affects the body from a hormonal and chemical reaction stand. She also has enough training to advise a patient on a caloric restriction if necessary which - I found she was quite thorough. I discovered food sensitivities under her care.

My Dermatologist has a background in how food relates to his specialty as well. Discovered food sensitivities under his care.

The other side of this also is that.... I work in healthcare so I know the advice she gives me is sound, easy to understand and easy to follow.

My PCP has known me since I was about 15 years old. He also became my daughter's PCP. He himself has admitted that he does not know alot about my current medical conditions because simply 'we are taught a generalized scope of information but because I chose to practice Primary Care, they dont necessarily expand on it too too much" - and he is absolutely correct. PCP's get the basics, a good foot-level to stand on. Then if it starts teetering within a subspecialty, thats when you get a recommendation to see a Specialist.

The one thing I tell my patients is that under no circumstances are you to leave an exam room without having a full understanding of what was explained to you. Ask all the questions you need to. Ask for reading material if necessary. Ask where you could consider finding out more. Patients need to be proactive in their care just as much as the doctor's they see.

I moderate one of the groups here on MFP and any time I see a medical-related post, I will always direct the person to take their medical question and seek the care from their physician(s). Too many people today dont question the right people - and by not going to their doctor's, they only make things worse for theirselves... if they dont question something they arent clear on, the pt will make it even worse.

margeauxhunt

I've never met a doctor with that attitude. I've never met one that hopes a person will leave soon or that a person doesn't notice they're not running the appropriate tests.

Sounds like you don't know many doctors, then. If you ask a doctor a question that is considerably outside of his scope of specialization which falls under a clearly defined separate medical field, I can guarantee you that he will raise his internal eyebrow about why you're asking him. It's like asking the local computer guy if he can fix the fax machine. Yeah, he probably can. But he secretly hopes you just call a fax guy, and you both know you'll get better results if you do.

[/quote]

I know many Doctors from many backgrounds and I can guarentee not one of the ones I know would react like this. They will help as much as they can. I think you need to find another Doctor.

m16shane

Q: You know what they call a doctor that graduates the absolute worst in the class?




A; A Doctor

Elizadolots

I would not put my faith in a dr where it concerns weight loss. I see them 10 minutes once every 2 years, and even then they are just rushed to put a conclusion to the case and move on to the next patient. If it is a specific medical problem that is persisting, ok fine. But as for weight loss, there are also as many opinions as dr's. They are not gods, as you so rightly stated. They should be experts on various symptoms, but quite often fail there as well.

squishycow7

I have a huge problem with modern medicine, specifically because quite simply it's a business

I do agree with this - medicine IS a buisness. hospitals are business. BUT that doesn't mean that PHYSICIANS are out for your money! it's not like they get incentive pay to put someone on a lot of (useless) drugs - assuming you don't see some jerk who crossed his fingers when he said his hippocratic oath, doctors DO want to heal/help/get you healthy.

that doesn't mean hospital administration feels the same. but when it's you and your doctor sitting alone in a room, they're not thinking "chaching," they're thinking "how can I help."

edit to add: but I can also see peoples' points about doctors not being the end-all for your nutrition/weight loss needs. I know mine didn't give me very helpful advice at my last physical - it wasn't BAD advice, but it wasn't complete, in my opinion. but again, if you have a good doctor, they WANT to help. and sometimes that means referring to another doctor. I think that's legitimate help.

AlsDonkBoxSquat

I agree . . . to an extent, and I disagree to an extent. First and foremost, it’s important to respect your doctor, and if you don’t trust and respect them to find one that you do, and it’s important to ask questions and seek the advice of a specialist. If you want a specialist do your research beforehand and request a specific one. If they get offended that you want a second opinion or to see a specialist run, do not walk, out the door.
I've had some ****ty **** **** crap-tastic doctors in my time. I've ended up in a 3 way conversation at the age of 18 with my psychiatrist, myself, and my mother because my internist was a pill pusher and put me on medication that should only be entered into with caution and we had to make a decision whether or not to institutionalize me during the withdrawal process. I watched this same doctor push pills at my mother for years masking her issues instead of addressing them the root of her problem. This was one of the more respected doctors in the area I grew up.
I had knee surgery on each knee twice by the age of 15 “to release pressure,” and this doctor was one of the most well respected specialists in the country at the time, a doctor for the us Olympic team, . . . when he suggested full reconstruction at the age of 16 we got a second opinion. When we told that doctor what was going on I swear he almost cried for me. He told me I should have never had surgery in the first place and sent me to physical therapy.
I have more stories, the fact is that no matter how much schooling a doctor has, they are sometimes wrong. I hope they’re wrong more with me than they are with most people, but I have a very difficult time finding quality care that fits into my more holistic view. Again, it’s important to respect your doctor, and if you don’t trust and respect them to find one that you do, and it’s important to ask questions and seek the advice of a specialist. I think some skepticism is healthy. While the human body hasn’t evolved much, the understanding about how it works has changed by leaps and bounds and you need to have a doctor who is as interested in staying current and being a student as much as practicing their field.