What will make you fatter...?

neanderthin

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance, which if there was a metabolic advantage would now be common knowledge based on those studies.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

neanderthin

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Anomalia

Battle of the studies.

neanderthin

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

What do you mean by increased energy expenditure?

Acg67

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Did you look at figure 2 on the increases in EE between the 2 diets?

yoovie

Let's assume you are currently maintaining on 2,000 calories a day .......

already disqualified.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Did you look at figure 2 on the increases in EE between the 2 diets?

This whole study is nonsense to me simply because there is at least 250g of carbs. You using this as evidence of no metabolic advantage must be based on a false premise that fat storage/EE is somehow linear with the amount of carbs vs. fat. Hence I think having a high base amount of carbs is going to invalidate the results when it comes to the metabolic advantage between a high and low carb diet (or in this case overfeeding).

I'm not saying there is a metabolic advantage, but I'm not buying this study as prove against it either.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

What do you mean by increased energy expenditure?

Basically that they may do more activity because the diet might motivate them in subtle ways because they feel more energized. In other words they aren't chronically hungry anymore because their body in one way or another thinks its starving. Instead of wanting to eat, they want to be active.

Acg67

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Did you look at figure 2 on the increases in EE between the 2 diets?

This whole study is nonsense to me simply because there is at least 250g of carbs. You using this as evidence of no metabolic advantage must be based on a false premise that fat storage/EE is somehow linear with the amount of carbs vs. fat. Hence I think having a high base amount of carbs is going to invalidate the results when it comes to the metabolic advantage between a high and low carb diet (or in this case overfeeding).

Woah slugger, where did you get the idea this was to debunk metabolic advantage? I've already done that with weight loss studies.

But did you not find it interesting that despite the greater CHO in the CHO overfeeding diet and therefore more insulin, there wasn't a significant amount more fat gained by the high CHO diet?

nsblue

if i eat more cals than what is good for my maintenance... and do not exercise more... i will gain...no matter what the food.... plain n simple.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Did you look at figure 2 on the increases in EE between the 2 diets?

This whole study is nonsense to me simply because there is at least 250g of carbs. You using this as evidence of no metabolic advantage must be based on a false premise that fat storage/EE is somehow linear with the amount of carbs vs. fat. Hence I think having a high base amount of carbs is going to invalidate the results when it comes to the metabolic advantage between a high and low carb diet (or in this case overfeeding).

Woah slugger, where did you get the idea this was to debunk metabolic advantage? I've already done that with weight loss studies.

But did you not find it interesting that despite the greater CHO in the CHO overfeeding diet and therefore more insulin, there wasn't a significant amount more fat gained by the high CHO diet?

I don't think weight loss and weight gain are necessarily equal as it pertains to fat storage and EE. I will agree its unlikely that there is a true metabolic advantage in weight loss, but I remain unconvinced that its not possible as it pertains to weight gain. That is why I want an overfeeding study on keto vs. non-keto.

I already know that the concept of DNL is misused by many low-carbers. I don't think there is a linear relationship between CHO, insulin, and subsequent fat storage and EE either. I think once CHO is high enough, then a disordered body becomes a fat storing machine and dietary fat pours right into the adipose tissue and EE doesn't compensate enough to overcome that.

Joneses17

I would go with either because excess carbs convert to fat. I personally consume more carbs than fat so that's where I would get in trouble.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I guess if you eat 1000 calories, you eat 1000 calories. I don't think it matters.

Changed my mind:

But, if you were eating less than 20g of carbs a day, you would lose weight if you ate the 1000 additional calories of just fat. Been there, done that. Dr Adkins

I'm not sure you understood the original question, you'd be eating in a surplus. So even if you were consuming 20g of carbs a day, do you still think you'd lose weight consuming 1,000 cals over your maintenance requirement

Yes, it's the premise of Dr Adkins' diet. As long as you keep your carbs to less than 20g, you can eat thousands and thousands of calories of meat and fat and you will still lose weight. I did it years ago and lost 30 pounds in about 6 weeks. Your body needs sugar (carbs) to metabolize protein and fat, so your body does not recognize the protein and fat as useable nutrition and ignores it. Now, if you eat more than 20 grams of carbs a day, you would be in big trouble. You would gain weight very rapidly. You must, diligently, account for every single carb that you consume.

First, it is DR ATKINS, not Adkins.

Secondly, who told you that your body ignores the protein and fat as usable nutrition? It gets digested the same as carbs when it hits the stomach.

Also, I have successfully lost weight on The Atkins nutritonal approach going through all 4 phases and add in the foods according to the carb ladder and I continued losing weight and then went on to maintenance.

The only people that gain weight back rapidly are those that do the induction (20 grams of carbs) for a time period and then REVERT back to their old eating habits. That holds to be true with any eating plan when you return to your old habits.

neanderthin

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

What do you mean by increased energy expenditure?

Basically that they may do more activity because the diet might motivate them in subtle ways because they feel more energized. In other words they aren't chronically hungry anymore because their body in one way or another thinks its starving. Instead of wanting to eat, they want to be active.

Wishful low carb advatage thinking....who are these exercise subjects, which exercises, what duration, what intensity, which foods, what kinf od study controls......assumptions and advantages are abound in every single promoted diet out there....low carb is no different, a more popular one recently and mostly based on how it helps people from overeating and of course the theories are amuck on the why.......no secret there, it's the increased protein compared to the popular SAD diet. Once protein is increased there are no studies showing keto diet are superior and if there was, like I said, the studies would ave beared that out.

Brandongood

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

Did you look at figure 2 on the increases in EE between the 2 diets?

This whole study is nonsense to me simply because there is at least 250g of carbs. You using this as evidence of no metabolic advantage must be based on a false premise that fat storage/EE is somehow linear with the amount of carbs vs. fat. Hence I think having a high base amount of carbs is going to invalidate the results when it comes to the metabolic advantage between a high and low carb diet (or in this case overfeeding).

Woah slugger, where did you get the idea this was to debunk metabolic advantage? I've already done that with weight loss studies.

But did you not find it interesting that despite the greater CHO in the CHO overfeeding diet and therefore more insulin, there wasn't a significant amount more fat gained by the high CHO diet?

I did. It confirms my belief and many others that the tracking of calories is more important than restricting yourself on carbs that you need for fuel.

grinch031

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

What do you mean by increased energy expenditure?

Basically that they may do more activity because the diet might motivate them in subtle ways because they feel more energized. In other words they aren't chronically hungry anymore because their body in one way or another thinks its starving. Instead of wanting to eat, they want to be active.

Wishful low carb advatage thinking....who are these exercise subjects, which exercises, what duration, what intensity, which foods, what kinf od study controls......assumptions and advantages are abound in every single promoted diet out there....low carb is no different, a more popular one recently and mostly based on how it helps people from overeating and of course the theories are amuck on the why.......no secret there, it's the increased protein compared to the popular SAD diet. Once protein is increased there are no studies showing keto diet are superior and if there was, like I said, the studies would ave beared that out.

If body fat mass is regulated (which we know it is) and stays consistent over a long period of time, why does protein intake make a difference? Are you suggesting that dieters who have success doing low-carb only gain weight off the diet because they automatically reduce protein? If that is the case, what is special about protein? Why does this throw off the body's set point over the long term?

grinch031

But did you not find it interesting that despite the greater CHO in the CHO overfeeding diet and therefore more insulin, there wasn't a significant amount more fat gained by the high CHO diet?

What I found interesting is that CHO led to more increased EE, but the net result was equivalent fat gain. Does this mean the CHO eater expended more energy but also gained the same amount of weight as the fat eater?

neanderthin

Are there any studies comparing overfeeding between a high carb diet and ketogenic diet? I think this would be the nail in the coffin of the metabolic advantage.

That's something you should have at the ready, considering your stance.

And what stance is that?

That you appear to believe a low carb diet does have a metabolic advantage.

Not really. I think in an ad lib environment, I think energy expenditure may increase naturally in some individuals when adopting a low-carb diet.

But I don't think this study demonstrates either way whether there is or isn't.

Anyways do you know of any studies comparing keto vs. non-keto? Do they exist?

What do you mean by increased energy expenditure?

Basically that they may do more activity because the diet might motivate them in subtle ways because they feel more energized. In other words they aren't chronically hungry anymore because their body in one way or another thinks its starving. Instead of wanting to eat, they want to be active.

Wishful low carb advatage thinking....who are these exercise subjects, which exercises, what duration, what intensity, which foods, what kinf od study controls......assumptions and advantages are abound in every single promoted diet out there....low carb is no different, a more popular one recently and mostly based on how it helps people from overeating and of course the theories are amuck on the why.......no secret there, it's the increased protein compared to the popular SAD diet. Once protein is increased there are no studies showing keto diet are superior and if there was, like I said, the studies would ave beared that out.

If body fat mass is regulated (which we know it is) and stays consistent over a long period of time, why does protein intake make a difference? Are you suggesting that dieters who have success doing low-carb only gain weight off the diet because they automatically reduce protein? If that is the case, what is special about protein? Why does this throw off the body's set point over the long term?

It's about calories, not protein as far as weight gain/loss is concerned and I don't believe in set points.