Would like to share my research with you...

treetop57

Thanks!

theartichoke

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! Wonderful information!

naomi8888

Hi Songbyrd, I hadn't given much thought to this before but I take a low dose antibiotic (Minocycline 50mg twice a day) for my skin.

Would this affect the gut bacteria? And if so should I take pro biotics or would the antibiotics kill them? Or is it a matter of spacing the dose so I take a probiotic at midday and the antibiotocs morning and night?

kiminikimkim

Thanks for the info, it all sounded new to me.

8kidsmom

Your intestines are packed with multiple trillions of bacteria. Every person has a different profile of bacteria, just like a finger print. When you were born, you had none, but as you were exposed to bacteria during birth and for the 2 years following, your gut became 'colonized'. These bacteria are your 'gut microbiome'.

Is there a way to better start your baby off to have the best results later? Proactiveness?

breastfeeding

songbyrdsweet

Hi Songbyrd, I hadn't given much thought to this before but I take a low dose antibiotic (Minocycline 50mg twice a day) for my skin.

Would this affect the gut bacteria? And if so should I take pro biotics or would the antibiotics kill them? Or is it a matter of spacing the dose so I take a probiotic at midday and the antibiotocs morning and night?

I would definitely suggest a probiotic and a fiber supplement. I'd aim for at least 5 billion cells per pill and take a couple. You can't take too many. The fiber will be important for proliferation of those bacteria. A low-dose antibiotic with a specific purpose isn't as harmful as a strong broad-spectrum antibiotic.

songbyrdsweet

Wow, very interesting.

I had always been lean-ish -- (95% for height, 50% for weight) until I was 15, where I was extremely sick and on antibiotics for a long time. I gained a ton of weight in that time and it's been there ever since.

I wonder.

Clearing out the gut and then recolonizing can definitely result in weight gain. Very interesting to hear about that in a human rather than a mouse.

badgerbadger1

I'm sorry, when you refer to "leaky gut" between the intestinal cells are you talking about a leak into the vascular space, interstitial space or peritoneal space?

So everyone can stay in on the convo, I will stay it's a leak between the cells.

The cells in your intestine are too far apart because the proteins that keep them together aren't being made.

I guess I need the proper physiological explanation to fully digest what you're saying.

songbyrdsweet

I'm sorry, when you refer to "leaky gut" between the intestinal cells are you talking about a leak into the vascular space, interstitial space or peritoneal space?

So everyone can stay in on the convo, I will stay it's a leak between the cells.

The cells in your intestine are too far apart because the proteins that keep them together aren't being made.

I guess I need the proper physiological explanation to fully digest what you're saying.

Okay...it appears to leak through the paracellular space. Enterocytes are held together by tight junctions...transmembrane receptors associate with one another across the paracellular junction and are held in place by anchor proteins attached to actin to allow for some contraction. LPS moves from the apical to the basolateral side of the enterocyte and empties into circulation if it's unbound, or into the lacteal if it's bound to a chylomicron. However, chylomicron-bound LPS is less of a risk as its lipid A portion is inactive when it's bound. Eventually the chylomicron is emptied and loses its ApoB48 apolipoprotein at which point it's considered LDL cholesterol. When oxidized this can bind the toll-like receptors competitively against LPS and doesn't cause such a severe inflammatory response. Or, the liver can take up the LDL along with its bound LPS (if it's still there and hasn't been picked up by a chylomicron in circulation) and acetylate the LPS, inactivating it. If the LPS is free and immediately enters circulation, it can bind to a TLR on skeletal muscle which causes the host of metabolic diseases associated with obesity. Free LPS can also bind TLRs in the intestine, but because the apical membrane is under constant LPS onslaught, TLR's are lowly expressed in normal conditions. However, obese individuals have greater TLR expression in the intestine which allows for some immune response (the TLRs are a major part of the innate immune system). Does that make more sense in terms of leakiness?

naomi8888

Thank you Songbyrd :flowerforyou:

songbyrdsweet

Very welcome! I'm glad you all enjoyed it. It was fun to write about my research in a relaxed setting and not for 'science'! ^_^

Sp1nGoddess

Save!

I am a closet nutritionist & love this kind of stuff....

songbyrdsweet

Save!

I am a closet nutritionist & love this kind of stuff....

You don't have to keep it a secret haha

Robyn120

very interesting! thanks for sharing

Toddrific

I heard on NPR the other day that yogurt doesn't actually change the colonization of your gut, but actually just gets the bacteria that is already there to behave better. They also said you have to eat it like 3 times a week otherwise the effect wears off.

I'm curious if pre/probiotics are similar.

songbyrdsweet

I heard on NPR the other day that yogurt doesn't actually change the colonization of your gut, but actually just gets the bacteria that is already there to behave better. They also said you have to eat it like 3 times a week otherwise the effect wears off.

I'm curious if pre/probiotics are similar.

Well probiotics won't change the colonization either. I mean, you can't entirely re-colonize your gut. Probiotics 'enrich', which means adding good bacteria which will hopefully proliferate and help kill off the competing bad bacteria. It definitely takes time, weeks probably, but it's really hard to measure gut colonization in humans because we'd have to remove pieces of intestinal wall and live people don't like that. ^_^ We can measure it in mice fairly well though.

frugalmomsrock

Your intestines are packed with multiple trillions of bacteria. Every person has a different profile of bacteria, just like a finger print. When you were born, you had none, but as you were exposed to bacteria during birth and for the 2 years following, your gut became 'colonized'. These bacteria are your 'gut microbiome'.

Is there a way to better start your baby off to have the best results later? Proactiveness?

Breastfeeding!!!

http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=20

http://drjaygordon.com/pediatricks/startingout/supplement.html

(yes; I'm aware not everyone can... but that doesn't change that it's the way to give the baby better gut flora. Period).

joolie3

I am convinced now that I have a leaky gut and my intestines are being colonized and taken over by gooey evil.
Bleeeech. That said, can't say anything is probably more disgusting than the fat already there.

dianacannon89

YAY I was worried that I was overdosing on probiotics bc the box says take 1 but I always take two bc they are lower dosage then my previous pro-biotics but it looks like with some of your comments you cannot od on probiotics! That is great news! I have also heard pro-biotics are given to children help swing ADD, ADHD, and other behavioral disorders mood swings. Something about the happy hormones starting in the gut? Do you know anything about that?

AABru

You did a fabulous job breaking down scientific info AND footing questions (I teach high school Science). You have the making of a great professor! Good luck with your research!

Dwamma

WOW! Thank for the eye opener! Lost of good infor there!

Blessings! <><

PeggyWoodson

Hello,

This is my first day and I am just wondering how you all are losing weight? Is it just by tracking what you eat and exercising!?

Yes. I count carbohydrates and others count calories and I'm sure there are others who do other things on here to loose weight. I normally track my food and my exercise with this web site. I enjoy it and find it motivational.

MrsObundles

Very cool. Thanks for sharing!

12by311

Super interesting information. Do you suggest that people take a fiber and probiotic supplement daily?

samb330

Great post. Thanks for sharing. I know what I'm going to go out an buy tomorrow!:flowerforyou:

badgerbadger1

I'm sorry, when you refer to "leaky gut" between the intestinal cells are you talking about a leak into the vascular space, interstitial space or peritoneal space?

So everyone can stay in on the convo, I will stay it's a leak between the cells.

The cells in your intestine are too far apart because the proteins that keep them together aren't being made.

I guess I need the proper physiological explanation to fully digest what you're saying.

Okay...it appears to leak through the paracellular space. Enterocytes are held together by tight junctions...transmembrane receptors associate with one another across the paracellular junction and are held in place by anchor proteins attached to actin to allow for some contraction. LPS moves from the apical to the basolateral side of the enterocyte and empties into circulation if it's unbound, or into the lacteal if it's bound to a chylomicron. However, chylomicron-bound LPS is less of a risk as its lipid A portion is inactive when it's bound. Eventually the chylomicron is emptied and loses its ApoB48 apolipoprotein at which point it's considered LDL cholesterol. When oxidized this can bind the toll-like receptors competitively against LPS and doesn't cause such a severe inflammatory response. Or, the liver can take up the LDL along with its bound LPS (if it's still there and hasn't been picked up by a chylomicron in circulation) and acetylate the LPS, inactivating it. If the LPS is free and immediately enters circulation, it can bind to a TLR on skeletal muscle which causes the host of metabolic diseases associated with obesity. Free LPS can also bind TLRs in the intestine, but because the apical membrane is under constant LPS onslaught, TLR's are lowly expressed in normal conditions. However, obese individuals have greater TLR expression in the intestine which allows for some immune response (the TLRs are a major part of the innate immune system). Does that make more sense in terms of leakiness?

Yes. So you meant leaking into the vascular space. I thought we were making the jump to bacterial "leaking", which would of course result in a more severe reaction aka septicemia, however you're talking more at the biochemical/microbio level, so my confusion is thus alleviated. Thanks for sharing, and I'll have to research it further as it's relevant to my work.

jenniejengin

interesting, thanks

songbyrdsweet

I'm sorry, when you refer to "leaky gut" between the intestinal cells are you talking about a leak into the vascular space, interstitial space or peritoneal space?

So everyone can stay in on the convo, I will stay it's a leak between the cells.

The cells in your intestine are too far apart because the proteins that keep them together aren't being made.

I guess I need the proper physiological explanation to fully digest what you're saying.

Okay...it appears to leak through the paracellular space. Enterocytes are held together by tight junctions...transmembrane receptors associate with one another across the paracellular junction and are held in place by anchor proteins attached to actin to allow for some contraction. LPS moves from the apical to the basolateral side of the enterocyte and empties into circulation if it's unbound, or into the lacteal if it's bound to a chylomicron. However, chylomicron-bound LPS is less of a risk as its lipid A portion is inactive when it's bound. Eventually the chylomicron is emptied and loses its ApoB48 apolipoprotein at which point it's considered LDL cholesterol. When oxidized this can bind the toll-like receptors competitively against LPS and doesn't cause such a severe inflammatory response. Or, the liver can take up the LDL along with its bound LPS (if it's still there and hasn't been picked up by a chylomicron in circulation) and acetylate the LPS, inactivating it. If the LPS is free and immediately enters circulation, it can bind to a TLR on skeletal muscle which causes the host of metabolic diseases associated with obesity. Free LPS can also bind TLRs in the intestine, but because the apical membrane is under constant LPS onslaught, TLR's are lowly expressed in normal conditions. However, obese individuals have greater TLR expression in the intestine which allows for some immune response (the TLRs are a major part of the innate immune system). Does that make more sense in terms of leakiness?

Yes. So you meant leaking into the vascular space. I thought we were making the jump to bacterial "leaking", which would of course result in a more severe reaction aka septicemia, however you're talking more at the biochemical/microbio level, so my confusion is thus alleviated. Thanks for sharing, and I'll have to research it further as it's relevant to my work.

Ah, no, we are WAY lower than sepsis here, like 50 times lower. This is referred to as metabolic endotoxemia. People can have endotoxin levels up to 5 EU/mL plasma without feeling anything, and around 10 some issues arise. We generally see anywhere from 6-11 EU/mL after high-fat feeding in humans but we have taken some measurements much higher after a fat challenge (like 2 Jimmy Dean b-fast sandwiches in one meal). Some of our mice get low-dose LPS injections without entering sepsis as well.

songbyrdsweet

I am convinced now that I have a leaky gut and my intestines are being colonized and taken over by gooey evil.
Bleeeech. That said, can't say anything is probably more disgusting than the fat already there.

LOL fortunately the bacteria aren't visible so you are free from their gooeyness.

songbyrdsweet

YAY I was worried that I was overdosing on probiotics bc the box says take 1 but I always take two bc they are lower dosage then my previous pro-biotics but it looks like with some of your comments you cannot od on probiotics! That is great news! I have also heard pro-biotics are given to children help swing ADD, ADHD, and other behavioral disorders mood swings. Something about the happy hormones starting in the gut? Do you know anything about that?

Nah, you can't overdose. The gut is connected to the brain via nervous system and endocannabinoid system. Your gut can send signals to your brain about whether you need to eat and even can promote serotonin release. I wouldn't promote that over a Dr's rX though.