Would like to share my research with you...

gingerveg

Thanks I've been very interested in this topic since my body got pushed out of whack from antibiotics. Now I drink kombucha and try to OD on the probiotics whenever possible. BTW there was this awesome Science Friday (NPR) where the guest explained that he (and hus team) found the appendix to be a "probiotic farm" of sorts. I thought it was interesting how little research we have on this subject. It made me want to get into the field and start mapping the wee beasties

singinghorse

Fantastic write-up, thank you!

This subject is something I've been interested in for years from a veterinary standpoint. My horse has been through several long courses of Doxycycline for Lyme over the years (60 days on average, one treatment lasted 90 days) along with having intestinal damage from NSAIDs. She is also highly insulin resistant. It took a lot of trial and error to find a high dose probiotic supplement that actually works for her. She has also been through several veterinarian-prescribed courses of glutamine which have helped her GI tract tons.

And this also reminded me that I need to order more probiotics for myself

mmapags

Bravo! Most awesome thread!!

daysofmylife

Most informative thread thus far! Thank you!!! BRAND NAMES of probiotics and fiber suppliments would be so helpful and most appreciated! Realizing I have been buying and taking the "wrong stuff" and don't want to make that mistake again.

sarahmichelle876

So a lot of you who have been here a while know me. For those who don't, I'm a 2.5 year PhD student studying the gut microbiome, obesity, and skeletal muscle. I would like to share what I've uncovered so far because I think it's cool, and also because it gets lonely having no one to talk to that knows about my stuff. :sad:

After I post this I'll be gone for about 3 hours, so I hope the thread doesn't die. :laugh: Anyway, here it goes:

Your intestines are packed with multiple trillions of bacteria. Every person has a different profile of bacteria, just like a finger print. When you were born, you had none, but as you were exposed to bacteria during birth and for the 2 years following, your gut became 'colonized'. These bacteria are your 'gut microbiome'.

Everyone has a mix of healthy and harmful bacteria. Healthy bacteria keep your intestines covered in mucous, they digest fiber to make gas and some fatty acids for your intestinal cells to 'eat', and they kill harmful bacteria. Harmful bacteria are covered with something called lipopolysaccharide (LPS) which causes a type of inflammation in your body. This isn't like a bruise or an illness; it's almost undetectable, but it causes things like insulin resistance. It might also cause obesity and type 2 diabetes in the long run. When the harmful bacteria die, the LPS comes off of them and floats around in your intestine.

The LPS can bind to fat that you eat and be carried into circulation. This isn't that bad, though, because it ends up being deactivated in your liver. When LPS leaks between your intestinal cells, that's a problem. Your intestine can become 'leaky' if you are obese and/or diabetic. It can also be leaky if you happened to be 'colonized' with bad bacteria. If you have a very leaky gut, more LPS escapes and causes problems.

A big problem with LPS is that it can mess up your skeletal muscle metabolism. Skeletal muscle--the kind that moves your body--is the largest metabolically active organ in your body. LPS can make your muscle unable to use fat for energy. Instead it can only use glucose. The fats are deposited around the muscle cells which eventually causes the muscle to become insulin resistant as well. This means you have a lot of insulin, glucose, and fat in your blood stream, which leads to obesity.

I am looking at ways to make more healthy bacteria grow. You can do this by eating a high-fiber diet, flax seeds, preobiotics (like inulin fiber), and taking probiotics in very high doses (in the billions of cells per day). Avoiding a high-fat, high-sugar diet is a way to prevent harmful bacteria from growing.

I hope you guys found this a little bit interesting at least. There is much more to the picture but this is the main part. I could go into all the hormones and everything but that would take forever! Just wanted to let you know that obesity is more than what you eat. It's what's inside you, eating!

This is really interesting. I'm a microbiology student and have never heard of the LPS surving the destruction of the cell. It's fascinating. I'll have to ask my professor about it Monday. I only really focused on the immune response though lol. This is very interesting.

sarahmichelle876

WOW! It is funny because I just found out I have H pylori and my doc. said something about my colon ? She told me to eat a high fiber diet as well... I wonder if this is why I am experiencing all my stomach cramps.. I do have a question though... What can you tell me about H pylori? I have read all about it but can it affect me the same as described in your post?

H. pylori is natural guy flora, but if its in over abundance it can cause gastritis and stomach ulcers. It does contain an LPS, so I assume it can affect you like this, but like I said its normal flora. Everyone has it.

TeriLynnSpano

Bump to save....VERY INTERESTING!!!!:happy: I would love to know what brand of probiotics and fiber would be best, thanks!:bigsmile:

catapultlaunch

bump

Oishii

Bumping because it's fascinating.

Sarauk2sf

Tagging to read later

EvgeniZyntx

Would this article be a precursor or part of related work?

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/56/7/1761.abstract

Thanks for sharing your work here.

mslainie

Thanks for sharing!

kymarai

Great thread! I am currently dealing with a body out of balance. Too many cortisone shots and antibiotics in the past year! My sister told me to buy acidophiles pills which I started a week before the DR put me on Provella. Balancing seems to be moving slowly though, has been 4 weeks. I am glad to know I can increase the probiotics with no risk. I have changed my diet to limit seriously any processed foods, yeasts or sugars. I try to eat at least one cup of plain Greek yogurt a day. Looking forward to the day when my body balances out and I can once again enjoy a cookie or glass of wine with no side effects. Thank you for the great info!

PS: My weight loss has gotten better even though close to goal, so that has been an upside to probiotics and clean eating!

songbyrdsweet

During sepsis, the ability of the body to prevent muscle wasting is impaired resulting in loss of skeletal muscle. In addition, skeletal muscle handling of carbohydrate becomes less efficient. These changes could result in delayed recovery, prolonged rehabilitation and in severe cases mortality of patients. It is still unclear how these changes occur in the human skeletal muscles but animal experiments suggest that protein molecules that are released during sepsis are responsible for these changes. Due to the biological differences between animals and humans in metabolic rate and stability, disease susceptibility and response to infection, simple translation of knowledge from animals to patients could be highly misleading.

LPS are an integral part of the bacterium, the bacteria need to be present for what you are describing to take place. Where is the research that indicates that my gut bacteria are floating around in my circulation and if they were I would be septic.

We aren't studying septic levels. We infuse/inject with low-dose LPS to induce endotoxemia. EU/mL are around 2-5 rather than 10+ which is indicative of sepsis.

Also, the actual bacteria aren't circulating, only the LPS that has been released from the cell wall upon lysation of the Gram negative bacteria. It still isn't clear how the LPS exits the gut and enters circulation, but the leading theory is that it leaks through the paracellular spaces when their tight junction proteins are compromised in some way.

songbyrdsweet

So a lot of you who have been here a while know me. For those who don't, I'm a 2.5 year PhD student studying the gut microbiome, obesity, and skeletal muscle. I would like to share what I've uncovered so far because I think it's cool, and also because it gets lonely having no one to talk to that knows about my stuff. :sad:

After I post this I'll be gone for about 3 hours, so I hope the thread doesn't die. :laugh: Anyway, here it goes:

Your intestines are packed with multiple trillions of bacteria. Every person has a different profile of bacteria, just like a finger print. When you were born, you had none, but as you were exposed to bacteria during birth and for the 2 years following, your gut became 'colonized'. These bacteria are your 'gut microbiome'.

Everyone has a mix of healthy and harmful bacteria. Healthy bacteria keep your intestines covered in mucous, they digest fiber to make gas and some fatty acids for your intestinal cells to 'eat', and they kill harmful bacteria. Harmful bacteria are covered with something called lipopolysaccharide (LPS) which causes a type of inflammation in your body. This isn't like a bruise or an illness; it's almost undetectable, but it causes things like insulin resistance. It might also cause obesity and type 2 diabetes in the long run. When the harmful bacteria die, the LPS comes off of them and floats around in your intestine.

The LPS can bind to fat that you eat and be carried into circulation. This isn't that bad, though, because it ends up being deactivated in your liver. When LPS leaks between your intestinal cells, that's a problem. Your intestine can become 'leaky' if you are obese and/or diabetic. It can also be leaky if you happened to be 'colonized' with bad bacteria. If you have a very leaky gut, more LPS escapes and causes problems.

A big problem with LPS is that it can mess up your skeletal muscle metabolism. Skeletal muscle--the kind that moves your body--is the largest metabolically active organ in your body. LPS can make your muscle unable to use fat for energy. Instead it can only use glucose. The fats are deposited around the muscle cells which eventually causes the muscle to become insulin resistant as well. This means you have a lot of insulin, glucose, and fat in your blood stream, which leads to obesity.

I am looking at ways to make more healthy bacteria grow. You can do this by eating a high-fiber diet, flax seeds, preobiotics (like inulin fiber), and taking probiotics in very high doses (in the billions of cells per day). Avoiding a high-fat, high-sugar diet is a way to prevent harmful bacteria from growing.

I hope you guys found this a little bit interesting at least. There is much more to the picture but this is the main part. I could go into all the hormones and everything but that would take forever! Just wanted to let you know that obesity is more than what you eat. It's what's inside you, eating!

This is really interesting. I'm a microbiology student and have never heard of the LPS surving the destruction of the cell. It's fascinating. I'll have to ask my professor about it Monday. I only really focused on the immune response though lol. This is very interesting.

The LPS isn't necessarily 'surviving', it simply isn't deactivated until it reaches the liver to be deacetylated. Unless it is bound, the lipid A portion is available to attach to a receptor in circulation. Are you studying toll-like receptors?

songbyrdsweet

Would this article be a precursor or part of related work?

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/56/7/1761.abstract

Thanks for sharing your work here.

Cani is a favorite of mine! I've referenced her a lot in my literature review. Her research started long before mine and has definitely inspired some of our ideas.

songbyrdsweet

Fantastic write-up, thank you!

This subject is something I've been interested in for years from a veterinary standpoint. My horse has been through several long courses of Doxycycline for Lyme over the years (60 days on average, one treatment lasted 90 days) along with having intestinal damage from NSAIDs. She is also highly insulin resistant. It took a lot of trial and error to find a high dose probiotic supplement that actually works for her. She has also been through several veterinarian-prescribed courses of glutamine which have helped her GI tract tons.

And this also reminded me that I need to order more probiotics for myself

Awwwe, poor girl! Those NSAIDS will do a number. Glutamine/glutamate is the main amino acid utilized by intestinal cells, really interesting to see that it has been an effective dietary supplement. I'm glad you've found a helpful supplement!

songbyrdsweet

Most informative thread thus far! Thank you!!! BRAND NAMES of probiotics and fiber suppliments would be so helpful and most appreciated! Realizing I have been buying and taking the "wrong stuff" and don't want to make that mistake again.

I can't speak to all brands since I am only using one product in my research (and it is prescribed, not OTC) but as a general rule a multi-strain probiotic is better, and multiple-billions of bacteria are better.

FredDoyle

I didn't know that Leaky Gut was a recognized diagnosis. Wasn't it an invention of Wakefield for his 'autistic enterocolitis'?

amysj303

well, this is interesting because I was just reading about how a preganant woman's inflammatory response can cause auto-immune disorders in the children born to them. Our inflammatory response is higher today because we lack exposure to disease and parasites, which seem to control inflammatory response:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opinion/sunday/immune-disorders-and-autism.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

It even says probiotics taken by pregnant women could reduce the incidence of auto-immune diseases in their children.
"For people, a drug that’s safe for use during pregnancy may help. A probiotic, many of which have anti-inflammatory properties, may also be of benefit. Not coincidentally, asthma researchers are arriving at similar conclusions; prevention of the lung disease will begin with the pregnant woman. Dr. Parker has more radical ideas: pre-emptive restoration of “domesticated” parasites in everybody — worms developed solely for the purpose of correcting the wayward, postmodern immune system."

Sofitin2013

SO can you cure your leaky gut if you already have it?!