Low carb -help?
Replies
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That makes him an engineer, not a scientist. Also, he stopped writing about about physics and aerospace when he was discredited writing about both subjects for unethical behavior, including falsifying evidence to support his writing.
He's not a reliable source for anything, especially nutrition.
This. His lack credibility totally. Read James Kreiger's (who actually a nutritionist) critique of Taube's book. To think of him as credible is a joke quite honestly.0 -
That makes him an engineer, not a scientist. Also, he stopped writing about about physics and aerospace when he was discredited writing about both subjects for unethical behavior, including falsifying evidence to support his writing.
He's not a reliable source for anything, especially nutrition.
This. His lack credibility totally. Read James Kreiger's (who actually a nutritionist) critique of Taube's book. To think of him as credible is a joke quite honestly.
I'm pretty sure Taubes isn't the only guy who thinks carbs and insulin matter. Probably enough people on that bandwagon to at least make it something to not be trivially dismissed.0 -
Not really, the reason it can be trivially dismissed is because science has proven many times over that it's just not true. Protein spikes insulin just as much as carbs do. Heck, EATING spikes insulin, even if all you eat is fat. If the "insulin hypothesis" really held any merit, than the simple fact of eating, regardless of macro profile, would make you fat because it causes insulin levels to spike. Then there's also the little fact that insulin doesn't actually have anything to do with fat storage, and insulin causing fat storage is the entire premise of Taubes' theory. Everything about it is completely flawed, based on either a total lack of understanding of human physiology, or outright deception and misrepresentation of facts.That makes him an engineer, not a scientist. Also, he stopped writing about about physics and aerospace when he was discredited writing about both subjects for unethical behavior, including falsifying evidence to support his writing.
He's not a reliable source for anything, especially nutrition.
This. His lack credibility totally. Read James Kreiger's (who actually a nutritionist) critique of Taube's book. To think of him as credible is a joke quite honestly.
I'm pretty sure Taubes isn't the only guy who thinks carbs and insulin matter. Probably enough people on that bandwagon to at least make it something to not be trivially dismissed.0 -
Not really, the reason it can be trivially dismissed is because science has proven many times over that it's just not true. Protein spikes insulin just as much as carbs do. Heck, EATING spikes insulin, even if all you eat is fat. If the "insulin hypothesis" really held any merit, than the simple fact of eating, regardless of macro profile, would make you fat because it causes insulin levels to spike. Then there's also the little fact that insulin doesn't actually have anything to do with fat storage, and insulin causing fat storage is the entire premise of Taubes' theory. Everything about it is completely flawed, based on either a total lack of understanding of human physiology, or outright deception and misrepresentation of facts.That makes him an engineer, not a scientist. Also, he stopped writing about about physics and aerospace when he was discredited writing about both subjects for unethical behavior, including falsifying evidence to support his writing.
He's not a reliable source for anything, especially nutrition.
This. His lack credibility totally. Read James Kreiger's (who actually a nutritionist) critique of Taube's book. To think of him as credible is a joke quite honestly.
I'm pretty sure Taubes isn't the only guy who thinks carbs and insulin matter. Probably enough people on that bandwagon to at least make it something to not be trivially dismissed.
Ok, so what about Dr Peter Attia? Are you calling him an idiot, too? Attia also states that carbs and insulin matter.0 -
I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
I prefer to get my nutritional information from people with actual; advanced degrees in nutrition. Guys like Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon.0 -
I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos0 -
If you're on a low carb diet then that means you are suppose to be eating lots of meat.
Wrong. Moderate protein intake for low carb.
To the OP............a lot of vegetables are low in carbs. Pair with a dip for a snack that gives you fat, protein and carbs in one shot.
With dinners and such use butter and steam, grill or roast your veggies.0 -
just eat the carbs and maintain a daily calorie deficit…
there is nothing wrong with carbs and they do not make you fat..
I am assuming you have no underlying medical condition that would make you sensitive to carbs..0 -
"If you love carbs, there's no reason not to eat them. I routinely eat 200-300 grams of carbs a day. There's no benefit to low carb dieting compared to any other diet."
[/quote]
I don't agree. Read Gary Taubes book "Why We Get Fat" (amongst many others) and you may change your mind.
[/quote]
we get fat because we over eat food…
there are no "bad" foods…
just over indulgences on food...0 -
Checking out his website now.I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos
He never finished his residency, he left it to become a business consultant. He has a vested interest in supporting Taubes, as they own a corporation together. It would be bad for business if he didn't agree with him. Either way, I don't see advanced nutritional education in his studies, either (med school usually has at most 1 or 2 classes on nutrition unless the student is heading specifically into the nutrition/dietician field.)
I still wouldn't put him above guys like McDonald or Aragon, who have advanced degrees in nutrition.0 -
Checking out his website now.I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos
He never finished his residency, he left it to become a business consultant. He has a vested interest in supporting Taubes, as they own a corporation together. It would be bad for business if he didn't agree with him. Either way, I don't see advanced nutritional education in his studies, either (med school usually has at most 1 or 2 classes on nutrition unless the student is heading specifically into the nutrition/dietician field.)
He is an MD. Medical Doctor.0 -
That means he graduated medical school. He still never finished his residency, and he isn't practicing medicine in any sense of the word. He's a business consultant who runs a website and co-owns a company with a man that is well known for falsifying information to sell books at the expense of scientific fact and accuracy.
Checking out his website now.I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos
He never finished his residency, he left it to become a business consultant. He has a vested interest in supporting Taubes, as they own a corporation together. It would be bad for business if he didn't agree with him. Either way, I don't see advanced nutritional education in his studies, either (med school usually has at most 1 or 2 classes on nutrition unless the student is heading specifically into the nutrition/dietician field.)
He is an MD. Medical Doctor.
Dr. Oz is also a medical doctor. Does that make everything on his show correct or factual? You're using an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Just because he earned a degree as a doctor, doesn't make him qualified in nutrition. As I said, medical doctors (he's a general surgeon, so this certainly applies to his education) receive very little education in nutrition. There's a reason they have specialists like dietitians. Just like I wouldn't trust a dietitian to perform an operation on me, I wouldn't trust the advice of a general surgeon when it comes to specific nutritional needs.0 -
That means he graduated medical school. He still never finished his residency, and he isn't practicing medicine in any sense of the word. He's a business consultant who runs a website and co-owns a company with a man that is well known for falsifying information to sell books at the expense of scientific fact and accuracy.
Checking out his website now.I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos
He never finished his residency, he left it to become a business consultant. He has a vested interest in supporting Taubes, as they own a corporation together. It would be bad for business if he didn't agree with him. Either way, I don't see advanced nutritional education in his studies, either (med school usually has at most 1 or 2 classes on nutrition unless the student is heading specifically into the nutrition/dietician field.)
He is an MD. Medical Doctor.
Dr. Oz is also a medical doctor. Does that make everything on his show correct or factual? You're using an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Just because he earned a degree as a doctor, doesn't make him qualified in nutrition. As I said, medical doctors (he's a general surgeon, so this certainly applies to his education) receive very little education in nutrition. There's a reason they have specialists like dietitians. Just like I wouldn't trust a dietitian to perform an operation on me, I wouldn't trust the advice of a general surgeon when it comes to specific nutritional needs.
Trying to use the Dr Oz ploy to divert attention the other way? Here's what you stated:I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring
I provided evidence that Attia is a medical doctor. Your statement was FALSE, as you jumped to a conclusion without checking your facts. Suggest you state FACTS, and not falsehoods to drive your agenda.
Have a nice day.0 -
I think the bigger picture here is this.....when we are operating at a reduction in food intake, AKA calorie deficit, we are also taking in fewer carbs than what we were prior to reducing our overall intake.
Sure, in our deficit, we can choose to eat more carbs in our calorie plans, but we are probably still taking in less carbs than before.
All of our bodies operate different based on multiple factors. Some can lose weight consistently eating 300+ grams of carbs per day..others gain weight if they eat more than 100 grams a day regardless of calorie intake. It's learning what our bodies accommodate by TRACKING our food over time and seeing how our body responds....and then adjusting to it accordingly.
This is the piece people get discouraged with. Anything worth having takes time, effort, and patience. Body health takes knowing the data, assessing it, and then putting a plan into place. As the body changes, the plan probably needs a tweak ever so often. Maybe it's just me. I'm not a doctor, just someone who's been on the weight loss journey for awhile.0 -
eat fruits and vegetables.... they are very healthy...fat in the cells is not good..personal opinion ...i have done both..low carb and high carb...had blood work done during both.....vegetarian diet was the best by far......hard to argue with the facts0
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I love how the low carb threads keep getting derailed into bickering matches over how they don't work. Low carb diets do work, and they work very well. I've been doing a LCHF diet since March 17, 2013. I've lost 165lbs. and gone from size 60 pants to size 44, 6x shirts to 2x. I have never felt better than I do now. I never get tired anymore, I have tons of energy, I'm never hungry, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, and my Acanthosis Nigricans( huge patches of velvety, discolored skin) has faded away.
Are my results going to be typical? No. I started out at 470lbs. I had a lot of extra fat to burn off. I also do intermittent fasting. But there are many people who do LCHF or Keto and have similar results. Just check out all the progress posts over at the keto subreddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
Also I thought you might like to read this. There are some NBA teams who have adopted a low carb diet. They are doing more of a paleo diet than a keto diet. They get at least 50 percent of their calories from fat, and no more than 25 percent each from protein and carbohydrates. Where on keto you would get 70% from fat, 25% protein and 5% from carbs.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24370416
"Within weeks of starting the program, Howard said his blood-glucose levels declined 80 percent. After increasing his consumption of healthy fats and decreasing processed carbs -- "No bread," Howard said -- all the blood markers that are indicative of heart health went in the right direction, too. After some initial lethargy during the detox phase, Howard said his endurance improved and his energy levels became more consistent. His body-fat percentage -- hovering around 5-6 percent his entire career -- dropped to 3 percent, he said."0 -
Your body needs carbs... but its very easy to blow that number out of the water. As soon as you have juice or something. If you are going to lower your carb intake(low carb dieting) then increase your protein intake. You'll help your muscles and teach your body not to latch on to carbs0
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I love how the low carb threads keep getting derailed into bickering matches over how they don't work. Low carb diets do work, and they work very well. I've been doing a LCHF diet since March 17, 2013. I've lost 165lbs. and gone from size 60 pants to size 44, 6x shirts to 2x. I have never felt better than I do now. I never get tired anymore, I have tons of energy, I'm never hungry, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, and my Acanthosis Nigricans( huge patches of velvety, discolored skin) has faded away.
Are my results going to be typical? No. I started out at 470lbs. I had a lot of extra fat to burn off. I also do intermittent fasting. But there are many people who do LCHF or Keto and have similar results. Just check out all the progress posts over at the keto subreddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
Also I thought you might like to read this. There are some NBA teams who have adopted a low carb diet. They are doing more of a paleo diet than a keto diet. They get at least 50 percent of their calories from fat, and no more than 25 percent each from protein and carbohydrates. Where on keto you would get 70% from fat, 25% protein and 5% from carbs.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24370416
"Within weeks of starting the program, Howard said his blood-glucose levels declined 80 percent. After increasing his consumption of healthy fats and decreasing processed carbs -- "No bread," Howard said -- all the blood markers that are indicative of heart health went in the right direction, too. After some initial lethargy during the detox phase, Howard said his endurance improved and his energy levels became more consistent. His body-fat percentage -- hovering around 5-6 percent his entire career -- dropped to 3 percent, he said."
Congrats, Tom. I'm on LCHF, too, and feel fortunate I discovered it and had the courage to try it. Here's another article on NBA, this one is on Kobe Bryant and the Lakers following their doctors advice and following a low carb, high fat diet:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1151964-kobe-bryant-and-lakers-team-on-paleo-diet-reports-examiner?hl=Kobe#posts-179697120 -
Im trying to eat less carbs but... it seems like every thing but meat has carbs? what kind of "snacks" are low carb?
Peanut butter and celery is my go to snack. But any kind of nuts or cheese are good snacks.0 -
All of our bodies operate different based on multiple factors. Some can lose weight consistently eating 300+ grams of carbs per day..others gain weight if they eat more than 100 grams a day regardless of calorie intake. It's learning what our bodies accommodate by TRACKING our food over time and seeing how our body responds....and then adjusting to it accordingly.
so the laws of thermodynamics apply to some and not others?0 -
I love how the low carb threads keep getting derailed into bickering matches over how they don't work. Low carb diets do work, and they work very well. I've been doing a LCHF diet since March 17, 2013. I've lost 165lbs. and gone from size 60 pants to size 44, 6x shirts to 2x. I have never felt better than I do now. I never get tired anymore, I have tons of energy, I'm never hungry, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, and my Acanthosis Nigricans( huge patches of velvety, discolored skin) has faded away.
Are my results going to be typical? No. I started out at 470lbs. I had a lot of extra fat to burn off. I also do intermittent fasting. But there are many people who do LCHF or Keto and have similar results. Just check out all the progress posts over at the keto subreddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
Also I thought you might like to read this. There are some NBA teams who have adopted a low carb diet. They are doing more of a paleo diet than a keto diet. They get at least 50 percent of their calories from fat, and no more than 25 percent each from protein and carbohydrates. Where on keto you would get 70% from fat, 25% protein and 5% from carbs.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24370416
"Within weeks of starting the program, Howard said his blood-glucose levels declined 80 percent. After increasing his consumption of healthy fats and decreasing processed carbs -- "No bread," Howard said -- all the blood markers that are indicative of heart health went in the right direction, too. After some initial lethargy during the detox phase, Howard said his endurance improved and his energy levels became more consistent. His body-fat percentage -- hovering around 5-6 percent his entire career -- dropped to 3 percent, he said."
its the calorie deficit that you created that lead to lost weight….not IF, low carb, etc…those are just tools to create said deficit.0 -
That means he graduated medical school. He still never finished his residency, and he isn't practicing medicine in any sense of the word. He's a business consultant who runs a website and co-owns a company with a man that is well known for falsifying information to sell books at the expense of scientific fact and accuracy.
Checking out his website now.I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring, not a medical doctor with any training in nutrition.
Sorry, tigersword, you are wrong there. Dr Peter Attia is an MD. He started his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering and then had a change of heart following a profound personal experience, and decided he wanted to become a doctor. He enrolled a year later at Stanford Medical School, and later did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland and while there spent two years as a post-doctoral fellow at NIH in the National Cancer Institute as a surgical oncology fellow.
He did a wonderful TED Talk, here's the link. This guy is certainly no idiot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to carbs and insulin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Eta, grammar, typos
He never finished his residency, he left it to become a business consultant. He has a vested interest in supporting Taubes, as they own a corporation together. It would be bad for business if he didn't agree with him. Either way, I don't see advanced nutritional education in his studies, either (med school usually has at most 1 or 2 classes on nutrition unless the student is heading specifically into the nutrition/dietician field.)
He is an MD. Medical Doctor.
Dr. Oz is also a medical doctor. Does that make everything on his show correct or factual? You're using an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. Just because he earned a degree as a doctor, doesn't make him qualified in nutrition. As I said, medical doctors (he's a general surgeon, so this certainly applies to his education) receive very little education in nutrition. There's a reason they have specialists like dietitians. Just like I wouldn't trust a dietitian to perform an operation on me, I wouldn't trust the advice of a general surgeon when it comes to specific nutritional needs.
Trying to use the Dr Oz ploy to divert attention the other way? Here's what you stated:I'm not totally familiar with Attia, but he's also not a medical doctor. He's an engineer with a PHD in enginerring
I provided evidence that Attia is a medical doctor. Your statement was FALSE, as you jumped to a conclusion without checking your facts. Suggest you state FACTS, and not falsehoods to drive your agenda.
Have a nice day.
Attia being an MD does not make him a credible source on nutrition in any way unless that was his specialty which it clearly was not. MDs generally refer to Licensed Nutritionist or Registered Dieticians for nutritional issues.
Below is the link to James Kreiger's review of Taubes' book. FTR, Kreiger is a Licensed Nutritionist with a Masters in Nutrition along with a Masters in Exercise Science. Valid credentials as opposed to Taubes as Attia.
http://weightology.net/?p=265
Also, as Tigersworld mentioned a couple of times, protein triggers the release of insulin just as strongly as carbs. You seems to have ignored that in your appeal to authority with Attia and defense of Taubes. If that is the case, how is insulin the issue and both Attia and Taubes suggest?0 -
I've heard of protein causing an insulin response due to gluconeogenesis, but I was under the impression that didn't happen for all protein consumed - only protein that was in excess of what was needed. If protein spikes insulin just the same as carbohydrate, then why does protein not get listed as having a glycemic load? I thought that was the whole point of the glycemic index?
http://www.alsearsmd.com/glycemic-index/
Also, I thought that protein also triggered the release of glucagon as well as insulin, where carbohydrate only triggered the release of insulin. Does that make any difference?
Thanks in advance for the info.0 -
1. The glycemic index has been disproven as basically useless for any practical purpose, as the fact that adding protein and fat to a meal completely changes the insulin response from whatever the glycemic index would be for a given carb (higher in the case of protein, lower in the case of fat.)
2. Protein doesn't stimulate the release of glucagon. Low blood glucose triggers the release of glucagon, along with low insulin levels. Insulin and glucagon are opposing hormones, as one rises, the other lowers, they don't get released together.0 -
I've heard of protein causing an insulin response due to gluconeogenesis, but I was under the impression that didn't happen for all protein consumed - only protein that was in excess of what was needed. If protein spikes insulin just the same as carbohydrate, then why does protein not get listed as having a glycemic load? I thought that was the whole point of the glycemic index?
Thanks in advance for the info.
Protein doesn't have a glycemic load because it doesn't convert to blood sugar. (with the exception of gluconeogenesis in an absence of adequate carbs) You have hit on one of the main fallacies of the insulin hypothesis and the demonization of insulin.
As Tigersworld pointed out earlier in the thread, insulin's job is not to raise blood sugar or to store fat. It simply shuttles nutrients to where they are needed. If nutrient and energy needs are met, eg. a calorie surplus, the excess nutrients are stored as fat.
So, the key for weight loss always returns to the energy balance equation, no matter what the macronutrient makeup may be. That being said, is it sensible to overconsume carbs? Nope. Fats and protein are important. But that doesn't make carbs an evil to be eliminated. They have their function in the context of a total diet in healthy balance.
Some thoughts from Kreiger on the subject:
"1. The proposed metabolic advantage (MA) for low carb diets is a hypothesis, not a fact
2. There is inadequate data to support the MA hypothesis
3. There is inadequate data to reject the MA hypothesis
4. The MA hypothesis does not trump the concept of energy balance. It postulates inefficiencies in energy metabolism, which would translate to an increase in measured energy expenditure (due to heat loss) in a living organism. Thus, if the MA was true, "calories out" would increase for a given "calories in".
5. A definitive study examining 24-hour energy expenditure (using room calorimetry), comparing a ketogenic diet to a traditional diet (with matched protein intake) for subjects in an energy deficit, has not been performed. This is the only study that will adequately test the MA hypothesis in humans
6. Weight loss still requires an energy deficit. If a MA exists, it still cannot make up for an energy surplus or energy balance. To assert otherwise is to assert that energy can be created or destroyed out of thin air, or that human tissue can be created in the absence of any energy input. "
MInd you, Kreiger is self admittedly biased in favor of a MA for low carb but as he says, none has been discovered as yet and if it had, it would still not trump the energy balance equation.0
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