Protein/carbs intake for muscle gain and weight loss

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  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Interesting, he pimps supplements for pre/intra/post while working for a supp company

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lteJ3w_moUg&feature=related

    And the fact that he mentions arginine in a positive light makes me question him

    Among other studies showing the ineffectiveness of arginine

    Liu TH, Wu CL, Chiang CW, Lo YW, Tseng HF, Chang CK. No effect of short-term arginine supplementation on nitric oxide production, metabolism and performance in intermittent exercise in athletes. J Nutr Biochem. 2009 Jun;20(6):462-8.

    Greer, Beau K; Jones, Brett T. Acute Arginine Supplementation Fails to Improve Muscle Endurance Or Affect Blood Pressure Responses to Resistance Training. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research: July 2011 - Volume 25 - Issue 7 - pp 1789-1794.

    Walberg-Rankin J, Hawkins C, et al. The effect of oral arginine during energy restriction in male weight trainers. J Strength Cond Res. 1994;8:170–7.
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
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    Interesting, he pimps supplements for pre/intra/post while working for a supp company

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lteJ3w_moUg&feature=related

    And the fact that he mentions arginine in a positive light makes me question him

    Among other studies showing the ineffectiveness of arginine

    Liu TH, Wu CL, Chiang CW, Lo YW, Tseng HF, Chang CK. No effect of short-term arginine supplementation on nitric oxide production, metabolism and performance in intermittent exercise in athletes. J Nutr Biochem. 2009 Jun;20(6):462-8.

    Greer, Beau K; Jones, Brett T. Acute Arginine Supplementation Fails to Improve Muscle Endurance Or Affect Blood Pressure Responses to Resistance Training. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research: July 2011 - Volume 25 - Issue 7 - pp 1789-1794.

    Walberg-Rankin J, Hawkins C, et al. The effect of oral arginine during energy restriction in male weight trainers. J Strength Cond Res. 1994;8:170–7.
    He didnt mention any brand of supplement in the article, Pimping supplements is the reason I usually dont buy M&F but this issue had numerous NFL. players training programs and meal plans in it, like Clay Matthews, Ray Lewis and Peyton Hillis so I bought it. If an article even mentions a particular brand of supplement than I stop reading.
  • AeolianHarp
    AeolianHarp Posts: 463 Member
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    What is your name and what is your profession and I will google you to decide who I should listen too.
    You do understand that his players and the players from every other team in the NFL. are trained by the top trainers in the world and have the best nutrionist's providing their meal plans that are very similar to the Jets right? If this Dr. didnt know his stuff his players wouldnt follow his advice and he would have been out on the street in no time. For me to follow you without knowing your credentials would be illogical.

    Goodness gracious you're dense. You simply regurgitate the same bologna. Who cares who I am? Truth isn't in my name or my profession. I have no other way to explain such a simplistic line of thought to you. You literally would have to be dumb as bricks not to understand what I'm saying. To reiterate, whether something is true or not is not dependent on one's profession or reputation, yah dig? If you don't then stop posting.

    Now, do you know what broscience is? It's simply implementations that do not produce improved results but also do not impede results. In essence, they make no difference. This person can implement a whole bunch of stuff and still allow individuals to produce great results.

    You're also missing another point of mine. I'm not saying what he's suggesting for NFL athletes is right or wrong but rather that it is wrong for you. You don't need complicated, unnecessary bull**** like that. There is some evidence that elite athletes who train multiple times a day need a vastly different diet. But no one here is that. None of us need it. Even powerlifters and bodybuilders would probably not benefit from that unless they trained multiple times a day.

    I cannot say anything else more clearly. Either improve your reading comprehension or continue to revel in your own ignorance.
  • missprincessjenny
    missprincessjenny Posts: 104 Member
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    You said you tried HIIT but quit because you didn't want to break the machine. I was told by two trainers if I do it by increasing the incline on the treadmill to ten and take it to zero it will still work. I refuse to run on the treadmill. I fell once. It does get my heart rate up. It does make me sweat. I walk at 3.5-4.0 mph.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
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    You said you tried HIIT but quit because you didn't want to break the machine. I was told by two trainers if I do it by increasing the incline on the treadmill to ten and take it to zero it will still work. I refuse to run on the treadmill. I fell once. It does get my heart rate up. It does make me sweat. I walk at 3.5-4.0 mph.
    I'm building up to running for 30 mins at 6mph and will then try do an hour. I will go back to HIIT later perhaps.

    The way it seems at the moment, I could spend all day on the treadmill and I wouldn't lose any weight. My net calories are low
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
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    What is your name and what is your profession and I will google you to decide who I should listen too.
    You do understand that his players and the players from every other team in the NFL. are trained by the top trainers in the world and have the best nutrionist's providing their meal plans that are very similar to the Jets right? If this Dr. didnt know his stuff his players wouldnt follow his advice and he would have been out on the street in no time. For me to follow you without knowing your credentials would be illogical.

    Goodness gracious you're dense. You simply regurgitate the same bologna. Who cares who I am? Truth isn't in my name or my profession. I have no other way to explain such a simplistic line of thought to you. You literally would have to be dumb as bricks not to understand what I'm saying. To reiterate, whether something is true or not is not dependent on one's profession or reputation, yah dig? If you don't then stop posting.

    Now, do you know what broscience is? It's simply implementations that do not produce improved results but also do not impede results. In essence, they make no difference. This person can implement a whole bunch of stuff and still allow individuals to produce great results.

    You're also missing another point of mine. I'm not saying what he's suggesting for NFL athletes is right or wrong but rather that it is wrong for you. You don't need complicated, unnecessary bull**** like that. There is some evidence that elite athletes who train multiple times a day need a vastly different diet. But no one here is that. None of us need it. Even powerlifters and bodybuilders would probably not benefit from that unless they trained multiple times a day.

    I cannot say anything else more clearly. Either improve your reading comprehension or continue to revel in your own ignorance.
    You are the one that is dense and need to improve your reading comprehension!! I stated numerous times that I do not time my meals and not important for the avg joe. I was just pointing out that meal timming is not a myth!! That is it!! If it was, elite athletes wouldnt time their meals.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
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    Could you guys not PM each other or something
  • Ripken818836701
    Ripken818836701 Posts: 607 Member
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    Could you guys not PM each other or something
    Sorry, I apologize in my part of hi jacking your thread.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
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    I'm still none the wiser about what I'm getting wrong. Today I have had 1928 calories, also increased my protein. I won't have anything more today of calorific content. Yet I've been doing this for months and still weigh the best part of 20 stone....

    I basically have almost half my TDEE and I don't buy that I'm in 'starvation mode', as I've been doing this for months as well as exercising and just am not losing a single pound as far as I can see.
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
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    I'm still none the wiser about what I'm getting wrong. Today I have had 1928 calories, also increased my protein. I won't have anything more today of calorific content. Yet I've been doing this for months and still weigh the best part of 20 stone....

    I basically have almost half my TDEE and I don't buy that I'm in 'starvation mode', as I've been doing this for months as well as exercising and just am not losing a single pound as far as I can see.

    How much cardio and strength training are you doing regularly?

    Do a high intensity cardio and strength training routine and eat 75% of your TDEE (recalculate weekly). Make sure you don't skip out on your workouts because they will lower your TDEE. Eat 30%fats + protein with 40% carbs for macros (lower carbs on days you don't work out). This will help you lose body fat and help maintain lean muscle mass, try it out for at least a week and you'll see some difference.
  • Tabsta
    Tabsta Posts: 28
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    I work on approx 50/30/20, you need carbs to exercise properly and efficiently, you wouldn't go for a long drive without fuelling up would you?

    As long as the carbs are good carbs and not processed crap then its fine. i do quite a bit of cardio in my job so need the energy..but i also take in about 1.5g per kg of bodyweight of protein daily through food or whey protein shakes. Obviously if you can manage on fewer carbs/calories each day then the body fat will reduce quicker..

    As the well known Tom Venuto says 'feed the muscle, burn the fat' ... and i agree with an earlier comment, you dont need to immediately take recovery protein within 30 minutes etc of exercise, as long as you stick to your daily goals and burn the fats, but FEED the muscle..

    I resistance train full body every other day, but not in massive quantities timewise, its quality not quantity. Try 'supersetting' to give your body a shock, see what happens.
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
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    I'll do resistance/weights about 3 times a week (sit ups, push ups ups, tricep extensions, bicep curls, dumbbell bench press, Dumbbell shoulder presses - I don't do anything on my back as I'm prone to lower back pain).

    I'll go on the treadmill a few times a week. I'm trying to build up to running for 30 minutes at 6mph without stopping. Currently what I'm doing is running for 4 minutes, then walking for 1 minute. I can do that now for 25 minutes. I will next try to do 30 minutes and then I'll lower the walking intervals until I can go the full 30 mins without slowing down.

    Given my size, I find the weights much more enjoyable than the cardio. Cardio with my frame is a nightmare tbh.I've been doing the weights for months and months - the treadmill I only started again about a month ago
  • Lukazetta
    Lukazetta Posts: 427 Member
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    I'll do resistance/weights about 3 times a week (sit ups, push ups ups, tricep extensions, bicep curls, dumbbell bench press, Dumbbell shoulder presses - I don't do anything on my back as I'm prone to lower back pain).

    I'll go on the treadmill a few times a week. I'm trying to build up to running for 30 minutes at 6mph without stopping. Currently what I'm doing is running for 4 minutes, then walking for 1 minute. I can do that now for 25 minutes. I will next try to do 30 minutes and then I'll lower the walking intervals until I can go the full 30 mins without slowing down.

    Given my size, I find the weights much more enjoyable than the cardio. Cardio with my frame is a nightmare tbh.I've been doing the weights for months and months - the treadmill I only started again about a month ago

    Keep at it with the cardio, make it as intense as possible w/out injuring yourself or not being able to recover by the next day.

    Look up information on HIIT on google and see if it will work for you. I suggest doing strength training before cardio because that way your body will be warmed up with a higher heart rate. Make the strength training intense as well, it's essential to not losing too much muscle mass while cutting body fat.
  • Tabsta
    Tabsta Posts: 28
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    Its not a quick fix, it never is, but i would personally concentrate on the cardio for a while, leave the weights or do just a little on each major muscle group, just a couple of times a week. (non isolation kit) and up your cardio. Try the low impact machines such as bikes, rowing machines, eliptical trainers (X-Trainers) etc so the impact on your frame isnt the same as running on the treadmill.
    Spend the spare time saved from reduction on weights to put into this extra cardio, bring your weight down first. Dont worry about protein etc for now, just keep your daily fat intake low, carbs as low as you can cope with (enough to support your cardio training, as my previous post suggests) and worry about resistance work/protein, 40/30/30 etc at a later time :o)
  • Tabsta
    Tabsta Posts: 28
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    At the risk of getting slated, just a quick comment on the stuff from page two, if i had 50 highly motivated athletes such as the NY Jets (or as im from England maybe Manchester United F.C. :o) .. then i'd be confident that whatever method i used to train and nourish them it would work?! .. Ive tried varying my eating habits, and there is nothing to suggest any one thing works any better than another?! .. Ive tried 'eating for exercise' and performed worse? and eaten very little and performed well? .. If people work hard enough and essentially 'do the right things' they will get the results they're wanting/looking for.. i dont believe there is a 'right or wrong way', just different ways...whatever works for individuals, its consistency and discipline that works...in my humble opinion :happy:
  • BaseToThePlace
    BaseToThePlace Posts: 27
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    Just like to say that I've lost almost 4 stone since I made this topic. I lost 3 stone in a really quick space of time and have looked pretty slim for a while now. My weight loss is a lot slower at the moment but I'm still losing usually a couple of lb per week maybe a bit less.

    I took advice from posters on bodybuilding.com to basically just go as low on carbs, fat and calories as possible, lift as heavy as I can and do 1g of protein per lb of body mass and it's worked wonders. I eat no more than about 1200-1300 calories on week days as well as a max of 50g carbs then at the weekend I pretty much do what I want.

    Instead of getting tired out from doing a few minutes running, I can now run 10k without getting that tired and still building strength doing weights. Starting to look pretty well built

    People on here may post bull**** about weight loss but what I've done worked for me and it's all I care about. I tried everything and nothing worked but hopefully soon I will have lost 5 stone.

    The low carbs and calories on week days has done wonders for me, I think when I first started it I lost well over half a stone in a single week

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