Beginning to think it's Calories consumed vs. NET instead

zoodalia

Everyone is different and I don't presume to know what works for anyone else. However, on the advice of many people on here, a while back I tried eating back my workout calories and very quickly my weight loss came to an abrupt halt (and I actually started gaining). I don't see the necessity in eating everything back, I see the necessity in eating good foods that will keep the body running.

pg1girl

I only struggled with net calories when I started working out. Before I was working out, net calories were fine because I had no exercise to speak of, which meant calories consumed = net calories.

My TDEE is 2600 and my BMR 1600. MFP used to set net goal for 1700 net calories. I would try to reach that goal, but found myself eating about 2500-2600 calories a day to do so. This seemed counter intuitive since that's how much I would eat to MAINTAIN and I wanted to lose.

Now I ignore net. I pay attention to my TDEE and BMR. I always consume above my BMR and I take my deficit from my TDEE. I eat about 2200 calories a day which is a 400 calorie deficity from TDEE. Basically I target somewhere less than TDEE but more than BMR for calories consumed.

Here's another way I think of it:

I have 12 lbs to lose, which means I have 42,000 calories in excess storage (3500 calories = 1 lb, so 12 lb x 3500 = 42,000 calories). I need to burn those storage calories off.

I burn a total of 2600 calories from living/breathing/pumping blood (BMR) and exercise/normal life. But I feed my body 2200 calories a day and then it uses 400 calories from my 42,000 calories of storage to cover my energy needs of 2600 calories. I am whittling my 'storage' calories, or excess pounds away at 400 cal/day.

ETA: And I meant to say that this took trial and error over a 2 month plateau for me to figure out. Once I figured out that I was eating enough calories to maintain my weight, it was no suprise I wasn't losing. Then it took a few more weeks to find the sweet spot. At a 400 calorie deficit I lose about 0.5 lb/week. I'm also doing heavy lifting and very close to my goal weight, so I'm not surprised.

Exactly this!!!!! Since I started doing the same I have noticed about .5 per week loss. The problem is, is people are too Impatient to do it slowly and correctly!

tabinmaine

What about a marathon runner? Net comes into play there. What about if you want to keep your muscle mass? Your body will eat away at your muscles if you dont feed them. You will loose, but will it be fat or muscle? Never net under 1200 (give or take 100, depending on the person). Do you want to be skinny or healthy....I vote for healthy.

I am not advocating eating under 1200 calories at all....... I am saying that many eat their TDEE and don't eat back what they exercise off...... even if it's under their BMR..... 1200 calories is just simply a #, it could be someone's BMR or it could be 400 calories below

katscoots

It depends on how honest you are with your tracking and it probably depends on a lot of different factors for different people. I always eat back my exercise calories. I am a religious logger of what I eat. I weigh and measure my food. Also, you have to be honest about your activity level when setting up the "net" requirements. I have a desk job - yes, I move around a little and I exercise about an hour a day - but for most of the day - i am sitting at a computer or in a meeting or in a car. I'm constantly moving at home, but i still consider my daily life only lightly active.

The way MFP has it set up has worked for me. I'm down 20 lbs since December.

My TDEE is higher than my "net", but all in all I probably end up eating that many calories when I exercise and eat back my exercise calories regardless of the "net"

pg1girl

The issue is people not understanding the terms they are using. Or, they are underestimating the calories they are actually eating, or overestimating their burn.

For example, just in this thread someone said they don't know why anyone would eat over BMR.

BMR means basal metabolic rate. It is the number of calories they would feed you if you were in a coma, just to keep you alive.

I said that and I know perfectly well what it means. Once you take activity calories earned and eaten back out of the equation, if you eat over your BMR you will gain weight. If you lose, that would just mean that the calculated BMR isn't correct for you (which it often isn't). You have to consume (absorb) less calories than your body will use in order to lose weight.

People on this site rely very heavily on BMR and TDEE calculation formulas when those are just formulas for the average person. It's only going to be a rough estimate on a personal level.

I hate to say this but no.....you totally do not get what BMR is if this is your explanation.

aj_31

bump

loseweightjames

I think it's different for everyone. I've been eating back my exercise calories for awhile now and I'm not losing any weight so this week I started to eat near maintenance and not eat my exercise calories back. I'm sure I'll be below my BMR some days but over the week I bet I'll be pretty close to it or even a bit over.

I don't believe it's just physics. Some people's bodies respond to stress differently then others. Mine goes into shut down mode if I do too intense cardio and my belly starts to expand despite the calorie deficit. Others can eat a diet full of sugar and lose weight, others can't.

I think everyone should try different approaches and find what allows them to lose weight and keep it off!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

it's not "just physics", otherwise no one would be fat. Everyone's body is different. Even medication has "side effects" because.... you guessed it...... everyone's body is different, and some people experience those side effects while others do not.

I lived with a girl that ate 4,000+ calories a day and stayed under 120 lbs for 2.5 years without exercise. Some people just have that metabolism, but she was "skinny fat" since she got winded walking up the stairs.

ElHombre23

Everyone is different and I don't presume to know what works for anyone else. However, on the advice of many people on here, a while back I tried eating back my workout calories and very quickly my weight loss came to an abrupt halt (and I actually started gaining). I don't see the necessity in eating everything back, I see the necessity in eating good foods that will keep the body running.

This...

EbAbYgONhArD2013

BMR should be stricken from the nutritional landscape, it's apparently too confusing.

I CON CURR

ars1075

Pardon me, but what does BUMP mean? Confused on the difference between BMR and total goal calories?:embarassed:

mamapuddin17

bump to read laler

Fat_2_Fit_Mommy

Ok I'm confused what is TDEE??

lorierin22

The issue is people not understanding the terms they are using. Or, they are underestimating the calories they are actually eating, or overestimating their burn.

For example, just in this thread someone said they don't know why anyone would eat over BMR.

BMR means basal metabolic rate. It is the number of calories they would feed you if you were in a coma, just to keep you alive.

I said that and I know perfectly well what it means. Once you take activity calories earned and eaten back out of the equation, if you eat over your BMR you will gain weight. If you lose, that would just mean that the calculated BMR isn't correct for you (which it often isn't). You have to consume (absorb) less calories than your body will use in order to lose weight.

People on this site rely very heavily on BMR and TDEE calculation formulas when those are just formulas for the average person. It's only going to be a rough estimate on a personal level.

I hate to say this but no.....you totally do not get what BMR is if this is your explanation.

Agreed...BMR is not have many calories you burn in a day w/out any exercise, it is how many you burn if you are not functioning at all (like someone else said...in a coma). If you get out of bed you have already used more calories than your BMR. Eating between BMR and TDEE will allow you to lose weight.

andreanicole686

You should eat back half of how many calories you burn during exercise. NOT ALL. So if your goal is 1500 and you burn 500 calories your net would be 1,000 so you need to eat back 250 calories at a minimum. If you don't eat within 30 minutes of working out you lose half of your workout. I think it's more of what type of calories and foods people are putting into their bodies then eating back exercise calories. It also depends on a million different factors, age, gender, etc.

ars1075

:huh:

tabinmaine

You should eat back half of how many calories you burn during exercise. NOT ALL. So if your goal is 1500 and you burn 500 calories your net would be 1,000 so you need to eat back 250 calories at a minimum. If you don't eat within 30 minutes of working out you lose half of your workout. I think it's more of what type of calories and foods people are putting into their bodies then eating back exercise calories. It also depends on a million different factors, age, gender, etc.

:huh:

zsaoosh

I have a question.. I still have not figured this all out yet and I have been using this for almost 2 months now.. According to the calculator on this site it says my BMR is 2,280 ... after putting in my weight, height, age, sex, MFP gave me a calorie allowance of 1870 daily.. Is this too much? Should I lower it to 1200? I have a lot of weight to lose, so how important is it that I eat back my exercise calories?? Thanks for any info!

This site is not good with BMR since it doesnt know how much of you is actually fat and actually muscle. (This site says my BMR is 1360 but I went in the bod pod and it said I was 1189) Go the the gym and ask someone to get your body fat %. 1200 is pretty low for anyone but your BMR seems pretty high, unless you have ALOT of muscle. The more you have to loose, the lower you can go with cals. I was told by health and welness to eat a little above my BMR (I am eating 1350) . And if you work out, dont eat back your work out cals unless you net under 1200. So if you eat 1500 cals and work off 300, eat back 100. But this site is also pretty bad at saying you lost 600 cals for cleaning your house, when you only worked off 50. If you lift weights (which everyone should to help loose weight) you should eat a little more to feed your muscles.

neanderthin

What about a marathon runner? Net comes into play there. What about if you want to keep your muscle mass? Your body will eat away at your muscles if you dont feed them. You will loose, but will it be fat or muscle? Never net under 1200 (give or take 100, depending on the person). Do you want to be skinny or healthy....I vote for healthy.

I am not advocating eating under 1200 calories at all....... I am saying that many eat their TDEE and don't eat back what they exercise off...... even if it's under their BMR..... 1200 calories is just simply a #, it could be someone's BMR or it could be 400 calories below

TDEE includes exercise calories. The confusion is in the formulation of the calorie out side of the equation which would look something like this BMR/RMR + TEF + TEA + SPA/NEAT) + Change in Body Stores. Trying to figure that out on paper is impossible on an individual basis and why multiple posts trying to figure it all out. The easiest way is to record what you eat for 2 or 3 weeks while your living your life (which includes everything, yes exercise too) and average your daily calories and when your weight becomes stable from calorie adjustment then divide to give you your daily average calorie consumption, create a deficit from there.

ElHombre23

Here's one more LOL Eat for fuel don't because some general equation tells you to eat.

Jacwhite22

I think most of the time this is a result of underestimating calories eaten and/or overestimating calories burned.

analubobadilla

What TDEE stands for????

zukkiz

Okay so I figure things out a little differently, since I am a breastfeeding mommy.

I calculate my BMR just as anyone else does and it comes to 1499.

I then do the Fat2FitRadio idea of eating the TDEE of my goal weight, which is 150 lbs. So that TDEE is 1696. This is all set towards sedentary. Trust me I am not sedentary I am a mom of 6 (5 of which are boys).

I have to add in only 300 calories for breastfeeding since my little one is 10 months old.

My TDEE would be 1996, basically 2000.

This week I started to eat about that much daily and net around 1700-1800. I haven't exercised this week really, but when I do I eat a lot of them back. (I use a HRM)

I weigh in "officialy" tomorrow, but this week I am already down 2.5 pounds. That will make 32 pounds lost since January.

You see though we all have different genetics, and what works for me might not work for others.

I don't believe in going to far from your BMR or under 1200 just because I would not be able to function.

I like your thought process, and eating for "the future you"

Thanks. It's working for me.

For everyone out there, I just hope you all find what works for you. For the most part we are all here trying to become healthier, I wish that for everyone!

gypsybug

I've started navigating these waters myself and about two weeks ago I bumped up my daily calories to my BMR (1460) and I endeavor to eat at 15-20% off my TDEE (2270). I have been trying to net my BMR on days I do heavy cardio. Now, my head has been scrambling all over the place trying to wrap around all the numbers and the acronyms and the PLETHORA of opinions....it's quite exhausted.

I have a BodyMedia Fit. Last night I finally got around to reformulating my goals on there (that I never met because I was not losing at 1200 a day). I have almost a year of data on there to go by.

When I plugged in the goals I have decided to go for ... .my eventual goal weight, a 1/2 lb a week loss and that I intend to be Very Active (defined on body media as 60 minutes of moderate activity such as walking, 30 minutes of vigorous activity like jogging and 10,000 steps a day, general movement) it told me to burn 2315 and consume 2065. Period.

No BMR no NET no strength vs cardio no macros tweaking. It does not care HOW I get there, as long as 30 minutes of it is vigorous (over 6 METS), 60 of it is moderate (3-6 METS) and to get the steps, keep my butt moving throughout the day doing my chores, walking to stores, taking care of life.

I think the TDEE is the starting point. Once you have that you can find a good cut amount. Your macros should be tweaked according to your activity or personal needs or whatever it is you want to go for.

I have found that I can have a day where I do such intense cardio, that I NET under my BMR. KNOWING EXACTLY how much I have burned for the day, I can say that if I had eaten the extra in order to NET my BMR, I would in fact have gone over my TDEE for that day. Would it have really mattered in the long run? No. Because there were plenty of days where my deficit would have been a bit larger and would cover that difference.

So.....this is where my logic is at this moment. Is it right? I dunno. And I'll likely change my mind tomorrow. This was just last night's revelation lol......

bcattoes

The issue is people not understanding the terms they are using. Or, they are underestimating the calories they are actually eating, or overestimating their burn.

For example, just in this thread someone said they don't know why anyone would eat over BMR.

BMR means basal metabolic rate. It is the number of calories they would feed you if you were in a coma, just to keep you alive.

I said that and I know perfectly well what it means. Once you take activity calories earned and eaten back out of the equation, if you eat over your BMR you will gain weight. If you lose, that would just mean that the calculated BMR isn't correct for you (which it often isn't). You have to consume (absorb) less calories than your body will use in order to lose weight.

People on this site rely very heavily on BMR and TDEE calculation formulas when those are just formulas for the average person. It's only going to be a rough estimate on a personal level.

I hate to say this but no.....you totally do not get what BMR is if this is your explanation.

Agreed...BMR is not have many calories you burn in a day w/out any exercise, it is how many you burn if you are not functioning at all (like someone else said...in a coma). If you get out of bed you have already used more calories than your BMR. Eating between BMR and TDEE will allow you to lose weight.

Did I say "exercise"?

bcattoes

What TDEE stands for????

Total daily energy expenditure. A fancy way to say "calories out".

bcattoes

What about a marathon runner? Net comes into play there. What about if you want to keep your muscle mass? Your body will eat away at your muscles if you dont feed them. You will loose, but will it be fat or muscle? Never net under 1200 (give or take 100, depending on the person). Do you want to be skinny or healthy....I vote for healthy.

I like being both skinny and healthy. They are not mutually exclusive terms.

deksgrl

What TDEE stands for????

Total Daily Energy Expenditure. Also known as "Maintenance" calories. You wouldn't gain any or lose any, you would stay the same weight if you ate that much.

lorierin22

The issue is people not understanding the terms they are using. Or, they are underestimating the calories they are actually eating, or overestimating their burn.

For example, just in this thread someone said they don't know why anyone would eat over BMR.

BMR means basal metabolic rate. It is the number of calories they would feed you if you were in a coma, just to keep you alive.

I said that and I know perfectly well what it means. Once you take activity calories earned and eaten back out of the equation, if you eat over your BMR you will gain weight. If you lose, that would just mean that the calculated BMR isn't correct for you (which it often isn't). You have to consume (absorb) less calories than your body will use in order to lose weight.

People on this site rely very heavily on BMR and TDEE calculation formulas when those are just formulas for the average person. It's only going to be a rough estimate on a personal level.

I hate to say this but no.....you totally do not get what BMR is if this is your explanation.

Agreed...BMR is not have many calories you burn in a day w/out any exercise, it is how many you burn if you are not functioning at all (like someone else said...in a coma). If you get out of bed you have already used more calories than your BMR. Eating between BMR and TDEE will allow you to lose weight.

Did I say "exercise"?

It just doesn't seem to make sense what you are saying...yes, if you were in a coma and you were getting more than your BMR in a feeding tube you would gain weight...but it has no real life application. Everyone on these boards are using more than their BMR calories because they are awake and typing...so I guess I just don't get the purpose of what you are saying...

tabinmaine

What about a marathon runner? Net comes into play there. What about if you want to keep your muscle mass? Your body will eat away at your muscles if you dont feed them. You will loose, but will it be fat or muscle? Never net under 1200 (give or take 100, depending on the person). Do you want to be skinny or healthy....I vote for healthy.

I am not advocating eating under 1200 calories at all....... I am saying that many eat their TDEE and don't eat back what they exercise off...... even if it's under their BMR..... 1200 calories is just simply a #, it could be someone's BMR or it could be 400 calories below

TDEE includes exercise calories. The confusion is in the formulation of the calorie out side of the equation which would look something like this BMR/RMR + TEF + TEA + SPA/NEAT) + Change in Body Stores. Trying to figure that out on paper is impossible on an individual basis and why multiple posts trying to figure it all out. The easiest way is to record what you eat for 2 or 3 weeks while your living your life (which includes everything, yes exercise too) and average your daily calories and when your weight becomes stable from calorie adjustment then divide to give you your daily average calorie consumption, create a deficit from there.

I know that TDEE includes your exercise.... Total Daily Energy Expenditure ( everything you do in a week )

katscoots

It depends on how honest you are with your tracking and it probably depends on a lot of different factors for different people. I always eat back my exercise calories. I am a religious logger of what I eat. I weigh and measure my food. Also, you have to be honest about your activity level when setting up the "net" requirements. I have a desk job - yes, I move around a little and I exercise about an hour a day - but for most of the day - i am sitting at a computer or in a meeting or in a car. I'm constantly moving at home, but i still consider my daily life only lightly active.

The way MFP has it set up has worked for me. I'm down 20 lbs since December.

My TDEE is higher than my "net", but all in all I probably end up eating that many calories when I exercise and eat back my exercise calories regardless of the "net"

After researching TDEE - if i understand it correctly - it includes exercise expenditure in the total calorie calculation, so you wouldn't log your exercise and eat those calories back so to speak if just aiming to eat the calories at the TDEE level...