Fasting - does it work?

mfpcopine

As others have said, I would go to the Intermittent Fasting group and get links to websites and books on it. Yes, it can work, although nothing works for everyone.

There are many variations of IF. It is very flexible, which is one of its benefits. Fasting for 24 hours once or twice a week is the most extreme form. A more moderate version involves eating only during a prescribed window. I've been doing it several days a week for the last couple of weeks and while I'm still getting used to it, I find it very helpful. I fast for 14 hours after dinner and resume eating for a 10-hour window starting in the late morning or early afternoon.

Here are some sites or terms to Google:

Lean Gains
Fast-5
Eat Stop Eat
Mark's Daily Apple and Intermittent Fasting

Sidesteal

I'm still waiting to see if any long term studies have been done to validate whether or not the acute effects of fasting have merit when drawn out. Typically with all sorts of studies (insulin, protein intake, BCAA intake/etc) they show short term fluctuations or changes that seem to support whatever it is they are studying, but often times something compensatory negates it over the long term, making it (the short term changes) not nearly as relevant.

All that being said, I enjoy IFing due to the behavioral aspects of it (ghrelin being adaptive to behavior, stuffing my face at night, etc). I'm just not convinced of the physiological benefits. Put me in the Aragon camp for now but I'm always open to reading studies.

jodiex92

I'm looking to try this as I want to shed some bodyfat i'm already fairly lean (22% bodyfat) & aim to get down to 18-19%. I think something extra is needed to what i'm doing now.
How would I go about this?
On training days or not training days?
I think the none for 24hrs would fit me and then do you have a normal (healthy meal) after the fast or blow out?
Then the next day eat as you normally would?
Advice apreciated, thanks.

crisanderson27

"Look at those who are doing it. You will notice that very often they have the greatest results and have been here for a long time."

LOL... debatable.

Ahh, here comes the kid!

Hey Monty.

wuts up old timer.. still preaching IF??

Just talking about what works .

I'm looking to try this as I want to shed some bodyfat i'm already fairly lean (22% bodyfat) & aim to get down to 18-19%. I think something extra is needed to what i'm doing now.
How would I go about this?
On training days or not training days?
I think the none for 24hrs would fit me and then do you have a normal (healthy meal) after the fast or blow out?
Then the next day eat as you normally would?
Advice apreciated, thanks.

The thing about IF is that it's not really 'something extra'. It's actually very sustainable long term.

As for how to go about it...it's up to you. Some people fast before training days (meaning they work out fasted...I did this for a long time), others find they prefer to workout with some food in them, and so train on non fasting days. For the eating method, you fast 24hrs, have a sensible meal (not a 'blow out' as you said)...then continue eating normally the next day.

If you PM me your email, I'll send you some documentation that lays the 24hr method out more clearly.

The other method involves eating windows of 8hrs every day. Cycling your calories on lifting and non lifting days, along with cycling your macro from high protein to high carbs. This method is more for body builders looking to add muscle and cut fat at the same time.

monty619

"Look at those who are doing it. You will notice that very often they have the greatest results and have been here for a long time."

LOL... debatable.

Ahh, here comes the kid!

Hey Monty.

wuts up old timer.. still preaching IF??

Just talking about what works .

ha broscience works too... chicken, brown rice, and broccoli every meal 6 meals a day.. doesnt mean its superior or you cant get the same results eating other foods at different times. but you can get results. same concept for IF

alli_baba

All that being said, I enjoy IFing due to the behavioral aspects of it (ghrelin being adaptive to behavior, stuffing my face at night, etc). I'm just not convinced of the physiological benefits.

Same here. I've been doing IF for a while and I like it from a lifestyle perspective (and will continue to do it), but I'm not convinced it's a magic bullet for fat loss. Just my $0.02.

crisanderson27

ha broscience works too... chicken, brown rice, and broccoli every meal 6 meals a day.. doesnt mean its superior or you cant get the same results eating other foods at different times. but you can get results. same concept for IF

I agree completely lol...although, I'd more compare it to walking around the block, or riding a bike. Both will get you around the block...but one will get you there more quickly =p.

monty619

ha broscience works too... chicken, brown rice, and broccoli every meal 6 meals a day.. doesnt mean its superior or you cant get the same results eating other foods at different times. but you can get results. same concept for IF

I agree completely lol...although, I'd more compare it to walking around the block, or riding a bike. Both will get you around the block...but one will get you there more quickly =p.

yeh but if caloric total and macros are the exact same over an extended period of the time... no matter if you did IF, bro science, IIFYM... i mean is there some real evidence that hormonally you can become superior by not eating for an extended period of time? wouldnt you have weak points and strong points within a day without being consistent?

crisanderson27

ha broscience works too... chicken, brown rice, and broccoli every meal 6 meals a day.. doesnt mean its superior or you cant get the same results eating other foods at different times. but you can get results. same concept for IF

I agree completely lol...although, I'd more compare it to walking around the block, or riding a bike. Both will get you around the block...but one will get you there more quickly =p.

yeh but if caloric total and macros are the exact same over an extended period of the time... no matter if you did IF, bro science, IIFYM... i mean is there some real evidence that hormonally you can become superior by not eating for an extended period of time? wouldnt you have weak points and strong points within a day without being consistent?

Your body doesn't need refueled every couple hours of the day in order to sustain usable energy levels, unless you train it to. I have incredible energy from the time I wake up, to the time I go to bed, in general...and I only eat after 1-2pm most days, and stop around 8-9pm. Prior to IF...I was grumpy in the mornings from being tired, always hungry (and I was eating decent meals every 4hrs or so), and often sleepy. With IF, my sleep is solid, within 5 minutes of getting out of bed I'm completely alert and ready to go, I'm not sleepy throughout the day...the list goes on.

As for studies that show this...both the leangains protocol, and eat stop eat both link studies that indicate this. For me though, the results are more than enough proof...both in myself, and in those that practice this (whether it be from convenience like myself, or from a belief in the hormonal benifits...which I also loosely subscribe to).

Huffdogg

The other method involves eating windows of 8hrs every day. Cycling your calories on lifting and non lifting days, along with cycling your macro from high protein to high carbs. This method is more for body builders looking to add muscle and cut fat at the same time.

Actually protein stays the same. You cycle carbs and fat, generally.

crisanderson27

The other method involves eating windows of 8hrs every day. Cycling your calories on lifting and non lifting days, along with cycling your macro from high protein to high carbs. This method is more for body builders looking to add muscle and cut fat at the same time.

Actually protein stays the same. You cycle carbs and fat, generally.

Some interesting reading for some of you guys:

http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebuildingmastermind/The_Leangains_Approach_Final.pdf

Huff, check out page 11, that's where it says high protein, and high carbs.

Huffdogg

Interesting wording. I wonder if he's basing that on macros (grams) totals. If so, it doesn't contradict what he has said before, but it's certainly confusing. I, and most people I know, keep protein at a steady 1g per lb of body weight. Yes, it's likely more than necessary, but it's easy math and I like protein anyhow. On rest days, that makes protein my highest macronutrient in terms of grams taken in (fat is only about half of that in second place). On lifting days, my protein stays the same, but the cycling of macros makes my carbs rocket up over 300g, making it dominant. Protein is "moderate" by comparison, but in actuality doesn't change. I'm curious if he's actually advocating something different, or just choosing to word it differently.

food for thought, certainly.

crisanderson27

Interesting wording. I wonder if he's basing that on macros (grams) totals. If so, it doesn't contradict what he has said before, but it's certainly confusing. I, and most people I know, keep protein at a steady 1g per lb of body weight. Yes, it's likely more than necessary, but it's easy math and I like protein anyhow. On rest days, that makes protein my highest macronutrient in terms of grams taken in (fat is only about half of that in second place). On lifting days, my protein stays the same, but the cycling of macros makes my carbs rocket up over 300g, making it dominant. Protein is "moderate" by comparison, but in actuality doesn't change. I'm curious if he's actually advocating something different, or just choosing to word it differently.

food for thought, certainly.

I think he chose to word it differently...as in practice I do the same as you. I was just calling the the same way he did.

delikium

so fasting can be combined with workouts?

crisanderson27

so fasting can be combined with workouts?

Definitely. Some prefer it that way. Martin from leangains believes that it's counter productive for building muscle...but that's not everyone's main goal.

glittersoul

Yes, it works well. It isn't for everyone. Some people will love it and do well with it and some will hate it. I did IF for awhile before I had my kids and I lost 130 lbs doing my own version of the warrior diet (Ori Hofmekler). Basically I ate one meal a day, essentially a 23 hr fast. I walked about 4 miles a day and had a strenuous job, but didn't purposefully do any other exercise. I am trying to fully get back to this because I felt my best with this lifestyle.

imbanter

i love this thread, i try to stay under my calories most days but it says im going into starvation mode. thank you everyone.

Intermittend fasting isn't 'staying under your calories'. You eat your calories, you just eat them withing a certain time period each day...or, you eat your maintenance 4-5 days a week, and don't eat for 24hrs 2-3 days a week.

Again, what benifit is there in a 12hr or so fast? Even the 16hr fast leangains recommends is a compromise. The true, scientifically proven benifits are just before, at, and just past the 24hr mark.

Source? Martin links studies that indicate that the hormonal responses occur around the 14-16 hour mark.

@Healthybodyhe: I'm guessing that you are responding from a position of ignorance here. I eat just as much now as I did before I started doing IF; I just do it more intelligently and within a specific window each day.

You misunderstood me. 14-16hrs is where they begin, what's the benifit to 12hrs? THAT was my point. Also...if they begin at 14-16hrs, and level off at the 24hr mark as the studies show, you reap more of the benifits by fasting 24hrs. The reason Martin's (leangains) method is a compromise, is he's not doing it strictly to burn fat, you're also building muscle. Understand, by 'compromise' I don't mean anything negative. In Martin's method, the compromise is building muscle and burning fat, both excellent goals. In Brad's method, maintaining muscle and burning fat is the goal.

I hope that makes more sense now.

What in the world? Fasting is NOT healthy for you! Common sense here.

Look at those who are doing it. You will notice that very often they have the greatest results and have been here for a long time.

Because by not eating you are harming your body. Just because somebody has done it and has been here for a long time doesn't mean a thing. It's called anorexia. Your body NEEDS food. By not eating you're actually causing your metabolism to slow down when most people (correct me if I am wrong) want it to speed up. EAT. Your body needs it. You're not cleaning out your system by not eating, you're causing your organs to stop doing it's job. Who wants that? Like I said. Common sense.

Umm...do I look anorexic? I eat 3000 calories on lift days, and around 2000 on off days. Try forcing an anorexic to do that. And for the record I've been IFing for close to a year now. Please, inform yourself before crusading your way into a topic in which you have no knowledge or experience. I understand you have great intentions. In this case however, you're simply wrong.

imbanter

Thanks for ask of the info. I'm sold after all the reading. I'm not looking for a magic bullet or a short-term solution. I need something that fits my crazy travel schedule and lifestyle and something I can do for life. I'm excited to try this.

rahrahrita

It may work for some people... but I wouldn't do it. I get really irritable when I haven't eaten for more than 5 hours. Don't mess with me when I'm hungry!!!!

wackyfunster

It may work for some people... but I wouldn't do it. I get really irritable when I haven't eaten for more than 5 hours. Don't mess with me when I'm hungry!!!!

That goes away after about 3 weeks of regular fasting. I used to be borderline hypoglycemic, which made me REALLY grumpy when I didn't eat for more than 2-3 hours. After ~6 months of daily IF, I can go about 20 before I start feeling that way.

FitLink

I've read in a few threads people mentioning intermittent fasting. I'm still not totally clear but it appears the basic concept is you don't eat 16 out of the 24 hours but you consume your calories in the other 8 hours. So does this work or not?

16/8 is one setup. 19/5 or 20/4 seem more common. I do 19/5 personally; only eating between 4pm and 9pm. I don't think it's actually better for losing weight, I just find I consume fewer calories naturally om 19/5 and it allows me to have a big meal once a day. It's too short a period to affect your metabolism and for me, makes staying within my goals easier. YMMV

Try it. If you don't like it you can always go back.

FitLink

i think the best way to fast is not to do 24 hour fasting. but rather to fast from sun up to sun down. Wake up before sun up and get something to eat.. could be a light meal , fruits water or a heavier meal.. then don' t eat again until after the sun goes down. Don't eat heavy greasy foods. Keep it light and simple. drink as much water as you can when you are not in state of fasting

Why do you think this? What are the proven benifits of your method of fasting?

The point of fasting is to empty your system completely of food. This triggers changes in the hormonal responses in your body, which are benificial (in the first 24hrs) in helping speed your metabolism, as well as spiking growth hormone when combined with heavy strength training. Growth hormone is known to help maintain lean mass, and promote the oxidation of fat.

Again, what benifit is there in a 12hr or so fast? Even the 16hr fast leangains recommends is a compromise. The true, scientifically proven benifits are just before, at, and just past the 24hr mark.

Can you link to the science? Because I practice IF, but I sure don't claim it does anything beyond making it easier to keep my calorie count down. Increased metabolism seems a stretch. Is there peer reviewed research in major journals backing this?

FitLink

What in the world? Fasting is NOT healthy for you! Common sense here.

Can you back that up with some scientific research? Because I haven't seen any research indicating that short fasts are in any way "unhealthy." IF involves fasting for periods of 16 hours to just over 24 hours. I have seen no study ever that indicates not eating for periods that short are medically harmful.

Obviously, they're not something that will appeal to everyone. They work well for others of us. I practice 19/5 IF myself, and the OP was considering 16/8. That is plain and simple not at all harmful.

lion_queen

I have personally fasted for longer periods. 5-7 days. A few times. Not great for losing weight but really effective for health. Got rid of reactive hypoglycemic tendencies this way. Better to do it with juice so you don't shock your body. But I was young and impatient so a water fast worked. Most of us larger Americans can go without food for at least a month with no negative effect. Of course that's LARGER people not people under 200 lbs who just feel fat.

Fasting for health? This. Is. The. Most. Stupidest. Thing. Ive. EVER. Heard.

FitLink

I have personally fasted for longer periods. 5-7 days. A few times. Not great for losing weight but really effective for health. Got rid of reactive hypoglycemic tendencies this way. Better to do it with juice so you don't shock your body. But I was young and impatient so a water fast worked. Most of us larger Americans can go without food for at least a month with no negative effect. Of course that's LARGER people not people under 200 lbs who just feel fat.

THIS is another animal altogether. This isn't recommended for anyone unless he/she is under a doctor's supervision. This can be medically dangerous.

lion_queen

. I don't personally think 24 fasting its bad because it had been practiced for centuries in various religions.

those religions used to stone a women to death if she walked in front of her husband. fasting or not fasting should not be guided by religion.

^ This!

FitLink

I've read in a few threads people mentioning intermittent fasting. I'm still not totally clear but it appears the basic concept is you don't eat 16 out of the 24 hours but you consume your calories in the other 8 hours. So does this work or not?

If meal frequency actually had some kind of advantage then IF might qualify, but alas, meal freqency has no such advantage. what it does do is help people control their eating, and many may find they lose weight by default, based on that, much like what a low carb diet does for some.

I lose weight because I eat less and am less hungry on a 19/5 IF schedule, and I'm not alone.

crisanderson27

i think the best way to fast is not to do 24 hour fasting. but rather to fast from sun up to sun down. Wake up before sun up and get something to eat.. could be a light meal , fruits water or a heavier meal.. then don' t eat again until after the sun goes down. Don't eat heavy greasy foods. Keep it light and simple. drink as much water as you can when you are not in state of fasting

Why do you think this? What are the proven benifits of your method of fasting?

The point of fasting is to empty your system completely of food. This triggers changes in the hormonal responses in your body, which are benificial (in the first 24hrs) in helping speed your metabolism, as well as spiking growth hormone when combined with heavy strength training. Growth hormone is known to help maintain lean mass, and promote the oxidation of fat.

Again, what benifit is there in a 12hr or so fast? Even the 16hr fast leangains recommends is a compromise. The true, scientifically proven benifits are just before, at, and just past the 24hr mark.

Can you link to the science? Because I practice IF, but I sure don't claim it does anything beyond making it easier to keep my calorie count down. Increased metabolism seems a stretch. Is there peer reviewed research in major journals backing this?

Brad Pilon lists peer reviewed studies in the back of ESE, that are his basis for these claims. I don't have them saved, but if you're interested, that's a good place to look. I believe leangains.com also has a few linked, but that site is so disorganized it's tough to find anything twice.

I have personally fasted for longer periods. 5-7 days. A few times. Not great for losing weight but really effective for health. Got rid of reactive hypoglycemic tendencies this way. Better to do it with juice so you don't shock your body. But I was young and impatient so a water fast worked. Most of us larger Americans can go without food for at least a month with no negative effect. Of course that's LARGER people not people under 200 lbs who just feel fat.

Fasting for health? This. Is. The. Most. Stupidest. Thing. Ive. EVER. Heard.

I find it very hard to believe that it's the stupidest thing you've ever read. I mean, 'Most. Stupidest' is pretty stupid in and of itself. Fasting for LONG PERIODS for health is something that many people believe in. I don't...and agree with Fit's comment about being under a doctor's supervision if you intend to do it. I do believe that fasting short term has health benifits...my own experiences, and that of others (read some of the comments above) reinforce this. So in a way, unless you misspoke, you just told me that my belief 'Is. The. Most. Stupidest. Thing. You've. EVER. Heard.'

Kind of rude really.

leslturn8

So.......this is day three of my diet, i am starvin, i am eating and yet i can eat a big meal and still be starvin......im hungry right now! The things im curious about:
does over night count as a fast window? someone else seems to think?
i get dizzy with no food......i treadmill when i gym, does dizziness go away with hunger pains lol
besides this, so much has been said about having right meals 6 small over the day blah blah, now fasting is good and i am tempted to put my head in a bucket of water :sad:
i for the last two days have been SUPER hungry, so i eat a small/medium meal which use to quench me, now does nothing....
so today for example, at 10 i ate.....i was hungry at 11 again....and im about to go an eat again now before tea cos lets face it i am :explode: :grumble: :mad: :noway: :frown: :devil: when im hungry .......so is my i feel like im starving myself fasting rofl, benefitting me at all, i hate diets!

FitLink

All that being said, I enjoy IFing due to the behavioral aspects of it (ghrelin being adaptive to behavior, stuffing my face at night, etc). I'm just not convinced of the physiological benefits.

Same here. I've been doing IF for a while and I like it from a lifestyle perspective (and will continue to do it), but I'm not convinced it's a magic bullet for fat loss. Just my $0.02.

That's my position. I don't believe there's an added benefit other than it's been a lifestyle change that is helpful for me in keeping to my goals.