Starvation Mode

Sarauk2sf

When you eat insufficient calories to fuel basic body functions (starvation mode), your body does not burn fat for energy - it's simply doesn't have the fuel for that.

So in your world the tens of thousands of calories in fat storage isn't available as fuel ?

How do people lose fat on PSMF diets - is that because they eat plenty of protein or because the calories are above some magic number.

Properly doing PSMF diets required refeeds, diet breaks and a very careful approach to what is being eaten. If a VLCD was all about just fat loss, why would these be required?

chicpeach

So in your world the tens of thousands of calories in fat storage isn't available as fuel ?

Think about this way. It's the day before payday and you're trying to get home. You've got $10. You're driving your car and the gas gauge reads empty. There are two gas stations across the street from one another. With no traffic on the road, you could turn left just as easy as right. One station has gas for $9 a gallon. The other station, has gas for $4 a gallon.

Are you gonna try to tell me that you would spend your last $10 for slightly more than a gallon of gas, when you could get 2 1/2 gallons of gas for the same money?

yarwell

If you are trying to lose weigh starvation mode will slow this process as your body will attempt to retain everything you eat as it is running on the system of a low calorie (unhealthy) diet.

So we spent millions of years evolving a system that at the very moment we need to use the reserves we're carrying the "body" tries to deny itself access to the very reserves that it is carrying for precisely that moment - to fuel its essential processes ?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, now does it ?

Organ: "Help, I need to use some of the fat !" Brain (or whatever) "No chance, I haven't eaten yet".

Sure, it slows down optional processes to make the reserves *last longer* but this is a measurable reduction well documented and even built into mathematical models. If there's still an abundance of fat reserves the body can be fuelled for a good old while from them in conjunction with enough protein - the priority fuel - and other stuff we can't make.

You can go down the road and buy a nutritionally complete 600 calorie diet plan (use for 6-8 weeks max as per the instructions) or you can go to iHop and eat 5000 calories and be nutritionally incomplete. It's a bit more subtle than one magic number.

ebonijo2

I've posted on this plenty before, with lots of f-bombs.

Starvation mode is a myth. If you have excess body fat, your body goes to this primarily as its energy source. Could you lose some lean mass if you didn't eat anything at all? Sure. If you had 100lbs of pure body fat though, your body is going to seek that out as an easy energy source.

Will your metabolism slow down? Not by any substantial amount. Your metabolism encompasses the entirety of all processes that make your body work, and allow you to exist and function. Will you feel like butt here or there? Maybe, but unlikely. Hell on a recent thread I proved this wrong by eating about 500 calories a day of nothing but water, almond milk, and whey protein powder. Did this for days, did weightlifting, martial arts, and my normal 13 hour shifts at work fine. It's kind of pointless, but you can do it, and you will lose fat.

Starvation mode only really exists when you are actually starving, eg in a DPRK work camp, making bigger rocks into smaller rocks.

I’m sorry if you are not a medical professional you can not know what long term damage you are doing to your body. You may be able to function for a couple of week’s maybe even years. But a continuous diet that does not provide you with a full nutritional value, you are harming natural body function that you are unaware of. And like what a gentleman posted before your metabolic starvation is different than you felling hungry.

yarwell

Think about this way. It's the day before payday and you're trying to get home. You've got $10. You're driving your car and the gas gauge reads empty. There are two gas stations across the street from one another. With no traffic on the road, you could turn left just as easy as right. One station has gas for $9 a gallon. The other station, has gas for $4 a gallon.

Are you gonna try to tell me that you would spend your last $10 for slightly more than a gallon of gas, when you could get 2 1/2 gallons of gas for the same money?

Further proof that car analogies don't work. My gas tanks are far from empty, or I wouldn't be here. So I would drive right past and buy a beer instead.

How does the Thermic Energy of Food (ie effort required to eat and digest) compare with the equivalent for taking energy from adipose tissue ? I assume that's what you're alluding to with this analogy, though it was a bit lost on me,

zsesteacher

bump

yarwell

duplicate

yarwell

Properly doing PSMF diets required refeeds, diet breaks and a very careful approach to what is being eaten.

Some people advise this approach to a PSMF, but not all, it may be the best way.

Obviously I am referring to nutritionally complete diets with all the mins & vits and protein, essential oils etc you need to eat. not 500 calories a day of lettuce and lean chicken.

georgia98_98

Okay...everytime I complete my food and exercise log for the day, it says that "you are eating too few calories" in red...and it goes on to say that I may be putting my body into starvation mode. Okay...question. How is it that if you eat too few calories, you can put your body into starvation mode...but then doctors perform gastric bypass surgeries which in turn reduces the number of calories consumed far below what a normal person would consume. Wouldn't that put your body in starvation mode if all you could eat was a baby jar of food? I'm confused...can someone please clear this up for me? Thanks

When ppl have surgery, since there stomach is smaller they need the protein but not the calories, IDK about the rest, lol!!

Sarauk2sf

Properly doing PSMF diets required refeeds, diet breaks and a very careful approach to what is being eaten.

Some people advise this approach to a PSMF, but not all, it may be the best way. Picking one at random.... http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/obesity/hic_psmf_diet_program.aspx does indeed refeed *at the end* but that's all.

Obviously I am referring to nutritionally complete diets with all the mins & vits and protein, essential oils etc you need to eat. not 500 calories a day of lettuce and lean chicken.

From the link, it is not clear, but it appears to really be for obese people. I do agree that the more overweight someone is, the less of an impact a short term VLCD has (other than the weight loss off course). However, I do not think you can say (which I am not sure whether you are on not, so sorry if you are not) that PSMF, especially without regular refeeds or diet breaks, is appropriate generally (i.e. for folks with less weight to lose).

Also. as I am sure you are aware, just because there are these diets out there, it does not mean that they are necessarily a good idea. And also, the one you referenced, is a doctor supervised one with doctor vists and lab work done through the process.

Quasita

Properly doing PSMF diets required refeeds, diet breaks and a very careful approach to what is being eaten.

Some people advise this approach to a PSMF, but not all, it may be the best way. Picking one at random.... http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/obesity/hic_psmf_diet_program.aspx does indeed refeed *at the end* but that's all.

Obviously I am referring to nutritionally complete diets with all the mins & vits and protein, essential oils etc you need to eat. not 500 calories a day of lettuce and lean chicken.

From the link, it is not clear, but it appears to really be for obese people. I do agree that the more overweight someone is, the less of an impact a short term VLCD has (other than the weight loss off course). However, I do not think you can say (which I am not sure whether you are on not, so sorry if you are not) that PSMF, especially without regular refeeds or diet breaks, is appropriate generally (i.e. for folks with less weight to lose).

Also. as I am sure you are aware, just because there are these diets out there, it does not mean that they are necessarily a good idea. And also, the one you referenced, is a doctor supervised one with doctor vists and lab work done through the process.

You just have to be careful because some people got extremely overweight because they VLCD'ed at first then binged... and the bigger someone is, the higher the VLCD number is. For me, right now, a "VLCD" diet, let's say half of my TDEE burn, is about 1700 calories. I wear a 24/7 calorimeter to measure my daily TDEE. anything under 1700 risks a relapse into starvation/anorexia.

Without the proper education, a person over 500 pounds could easily sabotage their efforts by dropping too low, and therefore burning more muscle than fat, and after that being weaker and more unable to move their 500 lbs mass because of it.

catlily43

I completely agree that the starvation mode is BS. I saw my doctor yesterday she told me that with my body frame and due to my disability and limits on working out that 1000 cal diet is acceptable for me and will be healthy as long as I get all my nutrional needs. I have ate under 1200 cals a day in the past and have lost weight without losing my muscle mass. If I ate 1800 plus cals a day even with health food I would gain. I am going to believe my doctor over anyone else here. She is a great doctor and is highly regarded and been in practice for over 30 years!

quirkytizzy

BWAHAHAHAHA! That's awesome.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

I completely agree that the starvation mode is BS. I saw my doctor yesterday she told me that with my body frame and due to my disability and limits on working out that 1000 cal diet is acceptable for me and will be healthy as long as I get all my nutrional needs. I have ate under 1200 cals a day in the past and have lost weight without losing my muscle mass. If I ate 1800 plus cals a day even with health food I would gain. I am going to believe my doctor over anyone else here. She is a great doctor and is highly regarded and been in practice for over 30 years!

I'm curious as to how you know you didn't lose muscle mass. Also curious as to what your disability is.

catlily43

I have mild Cerebral Palsy - it effects my lower extremities making it extremely hard for me to exercise. And as far as the muscle mass goes I have been going to physical therapy on and off my whole life, when I diet and when I don't. My strength in there is tested by what I can and can't do. There has never been a difference between when I eat under 1200 or I eat over 2000. I really don't think anyone can argue with a doctor who is very familiar with my body, as well as my disability. Last time I dieted which was about 5 years ago-I did the treadmill and some weights ate 700-900 cals per day lost weight and gained a ton of strength, muscle and mobility in my lower body. This may not work for some, but it works for me. Anytime I eat over 1000 cals per day I start gaining weight.

LFN88

It would seem for your particular circumstances catlily, your body does best on less than 1200 - that doesn't make starvation mode BS, it just means the average figure of 1200 doesn't apply to you.

I've spent the last 10 years yo yo dieting, after each fad crash diet I'd always end up heavier than I started with and the pounds would get even harder to shift - I'm so done with it. The only time I've sustained any kind of weight loss is when i went for moderation, it wasn't quick but it lasted a lot longer and it wasn't nearly as painful!