Considering running a full marathon...
montana_girl
Posts: 1,403 Member
I'm thinking about running a full marathon. I've ran a bunch of Half Marathons (and I'm signed up to do two more this year), but I feel it's time to challenge myself a bit more.
For those of you that have a run a full, what advice would you give to a novice marathoner? Training, pre-race, race day, recovery... whatever advice that comes to mind!
For those of you that have a run a full, what advice would you give to a novice marathoner? Training, pre-race, race day, recovery... whatever advice that comes to mind!
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Replies
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Sorry can't help out in the advice dept but I'm thinking about signing up for my first full marathon May 2013 - I'll be watching this thread!0
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can you break down your current running volume and schedule?0
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Training:
Run lots of miles, train smart and listen to your body. Assuming you aren't having injury issues, the more 20 milers the better. Also, it is ok to get ahead of your training plan in terms of long runs. If you are running halfs right now, then you wouldn't start a training program and drop your long run down to 8 miles. You would keep it at 12 or 13 and wait for the program to catch up.
Race day:
1) nothing new on race - sort out all your clothes, shoe and nutrition issues on your training runs (no buying new socks at the expo)
2) don't go out too fast
3) don't go out too fast
4) see 2 & 3...
Most importantly, enjoy the journey! To me nothing is more exciting then getting ready to run further (farther?) than you ever have before. Then you get to do it again and again. Pretty soon you say crazy things like, "I'm only running 15 this Sunday."0 -
Pick a respected training schedule and stick to it. I like runners world schedules but there are lots. Most critical to marathon training is avoiding injury. Most don't manage that and can mean failing to get to the start line or not being full prepared.
It is a significantly tougher training regime than half mara training and impacts upon your family/social life more. For example if you choose Sunday to be your long steady run, in the late stages of training you cn expect to be running for three hours plus on some Sunday's. This means early to bed, alcohol free Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon in the tub or on the sofa recovering. So, make sure you and your significant others are fully on board with it.
Pick a decent first marathon, read some reviews and pick a race that has good support, easy travel and is a suitable course.
For further tips closer to the event post back.
Best wishes.0 -
Depends on your goal for the full. If you want to finish, then simply follow a Hal Higdon novice training program.
http://www.halhigdon.com
If you want to hit sub-4:00, then you need to step it up. First thing you'll find is your weekly mileage needs to be increased a lot over what you need to do for a Half marathon. Believe me the 2nd half is WAY harder than the first half and the best way to train for that is to get used to running a lot more.
But either way, I'd start looking at the Hal Higdon site for ideas. The big thing on race day is to do even or negative splits. Don't waste too much energy early in the race.0 -
I just ran my first full marathon after what sounds like similar training to your's (several halves, a couple years of running under my belt). I followed Hal Higdon's novice program with a few adjustments based on my work schedule. Definitely get in 3-5 long runs of 16-20 miles. HH's novice 1 has you do a 16, an 18, and a 20. I wish I had done one more 16 or 18. With your running history, I would advise that your #1 goal just be to finish. You might have an idea of how fast you might run it, but depending on weather, day, etc., that can all get blown to pieces.0
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I am no athlete, but have run 3 marathons in my life and if I can do it most anyone can. Since you are already in shape to do a half-marathon and have completed many in the past, you are closer than you think to completing a marathon.
It is hard to give specific advice not knowing your current training schedule, but the marathon training schedule I followed for my first marathon lasted about 3 months and it had me running 3-4 times on weekdays of 3-4 miles each day and then on every weekend long runs or speed work. I had only been running about 3 months prior to starting the program with my longest run around 7 miles.
For the long runs, every third weekend I would increase my miles by 2 and then the following weekend I would do half the distance of the previous week. On the third weekend the program had me do a 5k – 10k speed run. For example, I kicked off my 3 month marathon training with the 3-4 weekday runs and a 12 mile run on the weekend. The following week the long run was 6 miles. The third weekend I did a 5k for speed work. The fourth weekend the long run was 14 miles. Then on the fifth weekend the long run was 7 miles. Sixth weekend another speed work run. I followed this pattern increasing my weekend mileage up to a long run of 20 miles, and then tapered 3 weeks to the marathon. My taper consisted of the usual 3-4 runs on weekdays, but my weekend long days went down to 10 miles and then 5. On the week of the marathon I did a few 3 mile runs and then my last run was 2 miles 2 days before the marathon. I rested as much as possible the day before.
This is the least mileage I would recommend for anyone to do a marathon and most marathon runners do far more. As a slow runner only wanting to finish my first marathon and walk as little as possible, this worked for me. If you have enough time, for my last marathon I also added a few extra weeks in my training so that if I struggled with a long run, I could repeat before moving on and increasing mileage. Or you can use the extra weeks as to rest week or recover if you are feeling fatigued or injured.
If those miles don’t sound like enough, you can also increase midweek mileage every few weeks. For example, for my last marathon I increased my Wednesday mileage a little each week, beginning with 4 mile runs and ending with a 10 mile midweek run which I did the last week of training before I tapered. You can also do long runs every other weekend and integrate your speed work into your weekdays, or do no speed work at all. There are so many ways to train and the key is to find what works for you. Basically you want a pattern of increasing miles/energy spent over a few weeks, followed by a week where mileage is less which allows you to recover before increasing mileage again.
Learning how to fuel and hydrate yourself is important also and how people do this varies greatly. Use your long runs to experiment. My last marathon I had a gel about every ½ hour to 45 minutes along with a salt tab. I drank a little water at the aid stations, and it probably varied between 8-20 ounces an hour, depending on what I felt like.
You have a really good base, much better than I ever had. Increase mileage gradually over a period of months. Have your weekly mileage increase up to around at least 30-40 miles per week the few weeks or month before tapering. Allow for rest and recovery. If you miss a run, even a long run, it isn't the end of the world. You can still meet your goal.
Finally, the marathon is a long distance, but it is such a realistic goal for most people. You will be more tired and have more pain than you did in the half-marathon but it isn’t that bad if you train. 26.2 miles seemed like a lot to me before my husband starting doing ultramarathons of 30, 50 and 100 miles. It is amazing what the body can do when you train it properly. Sounds like you are well on your way.0 -
Bump. I'm in the same boat. :bigsmile:0
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I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.0 -
I've done one full, and lots of half marathons. My recommendations are to do at least one 20 miler, two if you have time, the last one being at least 4 weeks before your marathon. Listen to your body on the training runs....if something hurts enough to change your gait, then STOP. I'd also suggest one day of strength training, or two shorter sessions each week. I found that my form sucked when I got tired (about 17 miles in), and strength training my upper body and core helped immensely. Relax, have fun, and ENJOY it!0
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I've run 10 marathons now, some training with people and most of them training alone. The best advise I can give you is to find a partner that has run a marathon or a marathon training group (most running stores have groups or info about groups). You will get the best advice from people who can see how you are progressing and potential problems. Best of luck !!!!0
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Nobody has mentioned strength training? Do you just stop all strength training while you are training? And if so, do you find that you lose a significant amount of muscle? Does anyone mix in cross training (biking, swimming) as well?0
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I've done 4 full marathons. It is an amazing and grueling experience. It's as much a test of your will power and emotional fortitude as it is of your physical endurance. My suggestions are do a long training plan.... like 20 weeks instead of trying to cram into a 12 or even 16 week plan. Stuff comes up... and it's nice to get 2 or 3 20 milers under your belt. Work out all the kinks in your training... what clothing feels good, how to fuel and hydrate during the run, etc. For my training - I tried to do two short runs per week of either 3 or 4 miles. I did one long run and one medium run which was half the distance of my long. For example if I was scheduled to run 16 mile long run that week... I might do two 3 mile runs, an 8 mile medium run, and the 16 mile long run. I usually tried to incorporate some kind of speed work into one of the short runs.... but not always.
And whoever said - don't go out too fast on race day was 10000000% right. It's tempting, but 26.2 miles is a long way to go and you don't want to crap out at mile 10.0 -
First of all, I just listen to arc918 when I've got marathon questions... :flowerforyou: I agree with everything he said above. I'm certainly no expert, but am happy to share what I know!
I just ran my first marathon in January and loved it so much that I'm currently picking my 2nd marathon for this coming fall/winter. So my first bit of advice is: totally do this! It's an amazing experience to train for and ultimately complete... you'll definitely thank yourself. So pick a race and get started!
As far as training, there are plenty of training plans out there, all of which are pretty similar, so just find one that you like and go with it. They're usually either 16 or 20 weeks. If the race you pick is further away than that, just keep building a solid base for now until it's time to start training. Follow the plan, don't skip any long runs, but generally listen to what arc918 said about listening to your body. Your whole plan won't be blown if you run 3 miles on a Thursday when you were scheduled to run 5. Just don't skip the long runs!
Obviously make sure you've got a good pair of shoes, though you probably already do since you've run several half's.
Use your long runs to practice your race day nutrition & hydration; a lot of people do different things in this regard, but I eat a gel every 3 miles with water (the water stops at most races are generally 3 miles apart). This is a lot more than other people seem to take, but it was what my "coach" told me to do, so that's what I did. Experiment with different gels/drinks/etc. until you find something you like and your tummy tolerates. The nutrition is one of the biggest differences between running a half and a full, IMHO. You can get through a half without worrying about nutrition at all, but most people need to fuel a full more carefully.
If you don't have one and can afford it, invest in a Garmin watch (or the like) to help with pacing. Mine is totally my BFF... otherwise, I'd end up going out way to fast every time and dying on the back end. However you do it, pacing is the other really key difference - it's just critical to hold yourself back early on to make sure you've still got something in the tank later on.
Other than that (and most importantly) have fun!!!! Take the training seriously, but remember that you're doing this for fun and to take on a challenge!
Best of luck to you - keep me posted when you pick your race!0 -
A lot of good advice so far...
Find a good training plan and stick to it, maybe an 18 week one for your first marathon. I just came off my 11th marathon, so currently I use a 16 week training schedule, with 3 running days, 3 strength days, and a rest day or an easy run (you may want to put in a rest day for yourself). A typical week looks like:
Monday - Strength (core/weights)
Tuesday - Easy Run
Wednesday - Hill Repeats
Thursday- Strength (squats, deadlifts, lunges etc)
Friday - Speed or Tempo runs
Sat - Strength or rest
Sunday - Long run
I do 3 weeks on and then a rest week were all my runs are easy. I will typically run 20 miles 3x during a training cycle. Remember to taper off before the marathon, so you're not tired. I would do my last 20 miler 3 weeks before, then a 12 miler two weeks, an 8 miler the week before.
Good Luck!0 -
Nobody has mentioned strength training? Do you just stop all strength training while you are training? And if so, do you find that you lose a significant amount of muscle? Does anyone mix in cross training (biking, swimming) as well?
I ST 3 days a week, and run the other 4.0 -
Nobody has mentioned strength training? Do you just stop all strength training while you are training? And if so, do you find that you lose a significant amount of muscle? Does anyone mix in cross training (biking, swimming) as well?
I didn't do any strength training at all while I trained for my first (and I still gained 2 lb. of muscle while training, so go figure). This time, I'm going to incorporate some simple upper body strength training (say, push-ups and some simple dumbbell exercises) to help with hills. I was also supposed to do some core work during my last training program that I wasn't exactly religious about, so I intend to work that in, also.
After I run this marathon, I may take on a tri, so will definitely work in biking and swimming then! But the best training for running is running, so I just stuck with that for my first time.0 -
^^ agree with this.Pick a respected training schedule and stick to it. I like runners world schedules but there are lots. Most critical to marathon training is avoiding injury. Most don't manage that and can mean failing to get to the start line or not being full prepared.
It is a significantly tougher training regime than half mara training and impacts upon your family/social life more. For example if you choose Sunday to be your long steady run, in the late stages of training you cn expect to be running for three hours plus on some Sunday's. This means early to bed, alcohol free Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon in the tub or on the sofa recovering. So, make sure you and your significant others are fully on board with it.
Pick a decent first marathon, read some reviews and pick a race that has good support, easy travel and is a suitable course.
For further tips closer to the event post back.
Best wishes.
I did my first marathon last month (London) & enjoyed it so much I put in for next years!! Don't think I will get in but I will puck another at similar time that's easy to get into. It's my biggest fitness achievement & still buzzing from it!!
Just make sure u get ur training right & also go & get ur trainers checked out by a specialist shop plus ur gait. If necessary get new ones. Don't kid urself old ones will be ok. I had some ITB issues past 16mi which was pretty painful & slowed my race down - had physio & discovered I overpronate all the time which gets exaggerated when running long distance. I have since got new trainers but in hindsight I should have got checked out on Jan. It's all a learning curve though.
Marathon training is different to half mara just as AS says. The latter stages of training do take up half ur weekend time but I found this ok & quickly settled into a routine. I found it all quite easy to stick to but I am better with having a program to follow!! I also got well into the nutrition side.
If u want any more advise or help message me or feel free to friend me. I am not an expert just a normal person who 2 years ago could only run the distance between 2 lamp posts & this year I ran my first marathon!!
Go for it & good luck!!!! :flowerforyou:0 -
I've only done 2 marathons but my suggestions are
1.Listen to arc
2. You can never start building early enough to run one. Safely build as high a mileage base as your body & free time allow.
3. Run a lot of your miles easy
4. Keep a mid week "semi-long" run that is half your weekend long run distance.
5. Plans are great, but they are only general guides, not written in stone. Tweak accordingly to suit your needs.0 -
I've never successfully run a full. Be prepared that your body might rebel as you do your first very long runs. My training went well until I had an ITband flare on my first 18 mile run and I'm still figuring out how to humor my leg into the marathon distance. Cross train especially leg strength. Anything you can do to strengthen your core and upper body will only help you. Don't get all jazzed up about a time goal for your first marathon distance run-if you complete it you're a rock star
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That's awesome that you want to run a full marathon. I just recently ran my first full and have run multiple halfs. Make sure to get in at least 5 long run of 16+ miles. Having a running buddy is great too. I never went over 20 before running the full. Eat a lot of carbs the night before and make sure to eat a similar breakfast to what you have been eating during your other long runs. Also, make sure to drink A LOT of water and/or gatorade during the marathon. I was absolutely starving around mile 20 and the gatorade helped. I also ate tootsie rolls. A lot of marathons hand out something that will help if you start getting hungry and need fuel. Another great thing to eat is a small piece of a snickers bar. In the marathon that I ran at mile 22 they were handing out very small bites of snickers and that helped me get my energy levels back up. The last 5k I would say is the hardest so make sure to prepare for that. The other miles seemed to fly by. Make sure to pick a marathon with a good route so you aren't bored while you are running. Consider doing it in a different town that you have never run in before. After you finish the marathon, your legs will most likely be completely dead. Make sure to drink lots of fluids and rest. I took off 2 days after running the marathon but most people take off more. Only 1% of people ever run a marathon. It's one of the best feelings in the world when you cross that finish line. Good luck! You can do it! 0
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Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice! :flowerforyou: Will definitely use a lot of it if (when) I start training.
To answer a couple of questions that came up…
I have significant support to make the time commitment needed for training. My hubby ran a full marathon last year, and though he really has no interest in running another one (due to knee issues and he’s perfectly happy running half marathons), he knows that at this point I really want to challenge myself to see if I can finish a full.
My only goal is to finish, and finish at a point where I still feel physically okay (tired, achy, sore, but not injured).
I have two friends that are willing to run the full with me and one of the friends has completed several full marathons and was the one that pushed me to finish my first half marathon. We often run together so we’re very familiar with each other’s strengths and abilities, we know when to push each other and when to back off.
My friend who has run the full marathons has given me several suggestions on when and where to run my first full. Living in Montana, we want to train early spring/summer so we’re not contending with cold, ice, and freezing winds, so I am looking at doing a race over Labor Day weekend of 2013.
I currently run using the Galloway method (run 4 min/walk 1 min) and will continue with that method (though possibly changing the run/walk ratio) for training and running the full marathon. I have a 17 week schedule worked out and will begin training after our yearly half marathon, so I won’t be starting from “scratch.”
My current workout schedule is:
Sunday – 6 to 11 mile run (depending on where I am in my half training)
Monday – strength training
Tuesday – spin bike
Wednesday – 3 mile run
Thursday – rest
Friday – 3 to 4.5 mile run
Saturday – strength training
I think my two biggest hurdles will be the mental aspect and the learning to hydrate/fuel my body for the race. I have been experimenting with fueling (currently use Shot Bloks) on runs over 8 miles since my friend noticed I tend to start struggling around mile 9. And sure enough, once I started using the Shot Bloks, I didn’t struggle as much.
Now, to just over come that mental hurdle of running 26.2 miles…. I think that is what’s holding me back from totally committing to doing a full marathon…0 -
Now, to just over come that mental hurdle of running 26.2 miles…. I think that is what’s holding me back from totally committing to doing a full marathon…
Sounds like you're well on your way! A lot of the first marathon is a mental game...you'll run up to 20 miles, then kind of have to go on faith that your training was sound to get you through the last 6.2. I found that at some point, your perspective shifts, and 14 miles seems 'short'. I now think of 6 mile runs as 'light jogs'...this wasn't always so
As far as nutrition and hydration go, i take a powergel every 6 miles (about 45 minutes), and use my ring to judge how hydrated i am (if it slides around fairly easy on my finger, I'm good; if its falling off, I'm over-hydrated, if its stuck and won't budge, I'm dehydrated)0 -
I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.
My $.02 - I think 3, 5, 3 is not going to be nearly enough base mileage to "support" your long run. It will work ok at 12 or 14, but as you get toward 18 or 20+, more base mileage will really serve you well. Think 6, 8, 6 or 7, 8, 7 or something more along those lines.0 -
I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.
My $.02 - I think 3, 5, 3 is not going to be nearly enough base mileage to "support" your long run. It will work ok at 12 or 14, but as you get toward 18 or 20+, more base mileage will really serve you well. Think 6, 8, 6 or 7, 8, 7 or something more along those lines.
I'm not sure 4 days really enough. 7,8,7,20 has that LSD run at like 45% of the weekly mileage. I'd say something more like 7,12,6,8,20 would be better, but still not ideal.
ETA: The long run is not the end all, be all for marathon training, but just another cog in the wheel. Total mileage over time is what develops the systems that you need to be able to complete the distance. The mid-week, mid-long run shouldn't be overlooked.0 -
I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.
My $.02 - I think 3, 5, 3 is not going to be nearly enough base mileage to "support" your long run. It will work ok at 12 or 14, but as you get toward 18 or 20+, more base mileage will really serve you well. Think 6, 8, 6 or 7, 8, 7 or something more along those lines.
I'm not sure 4 days really enough. 7,8,7,20 has that LSD run at like 45% of the weekly mileage. I'd say something more like 7,12,6,8,20 would be better, but still not ideal.
ETA: The long run is not the end all, be all for marathon training, but just another cog in the wheel. Total mileage over time is what develops the systems that you need to be able to complete the distance. The mid-week, mid-long run shouldn't be overlooked.
Yeah but this is probably not what the majority of runners are doing. Probably the most popular training program for novices and intermediates is Hal Higdon. He has novice and intermediate programs that only hit the 30-40 mpw range.
http://halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
http://halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program
The novice program here peaks at 5, 10, 5, 20
The intermediate program here peaks at 5, 8, 5, 5, 20
Plus lets look at the median finish time for marathon runners in the US for 2010:
Males: 4:16:14
Females: 4:42:10
http://runningusa.org/node/76115
I agree the OP originally quoted is doing an insufficient training program and will probably end up walking the last couple miles, but I don't think we need to start going the other extreme either. The more people run, the higher the occurrence of injuries. Most people who don't have serious goals would probably be taking on less injury risk following a more modest Higdon-style training program.0 -
So maybe the solution is to not train for a marathon until you can handle a decent amount of mileage?
Not trying to be snarky but it is just common sense. The fact that the average marathon time is increasing means more and more people are not only taking part but taking part undertrained. This is why people get injured. I speak from experience as I went into my first one severely undertrained and injured due to newbie stupidity. It took me a couple of years before I felt comfortable enough with my base to train for another one. And by base, I mean 50 mpw for 6 months.
and I echo the importance of a mid week higher mileage run.I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.
My $.02 - I think 3, 5, 3 is not going to be nearly enough base mileage to "support" your long run. It will work ok at 12 or 14, but as you get toward 18 or 20+, more base mileage will really serve you well. Think 6, 8, 6 or 7, 8, 7 or something more along those lines.
I'm not sure 4 days really enough. 7,8,7,20 has that LSD run at like 45% of the weekly mileage. I'd say something more like 7,12,6,8,20 would be better, but still not ideal.
ETA: The long run is not the end all, be all for marathon training, but just another cog in the wheel. Total mileage over time is what develops the systems that you need to be able to complete the distance. The mid-week, mid-long run shouldn't be overlooked.
Yeah but this is probably not what the majority of runners are doing. Probably the most popular training program for novices and intermediates is Hal Higdon. He has novice and intermediate programs that only hit the 30-40 mpw range.
http://halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
http://halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program
The novice program here peaks at 5, 10, 5, 20
The intermediate program here peaks at 5, 8, 5, 5, 20
Plus lets look at the median finish time for marathon runners in the US for 2010:
Males: 4:16:14
Females: 4:42:10
http://runningusa.org/node/76115
I agree the OP originally quoted is doing an insufficient training program and will probably end up walking the last couple miles, but I don't think we need to start going the other extreme either. The more people run, the higher the occurrence of injuries. Most people who don't have serious goals would probably be taking on less injury risk following a more modest Higdon-style training program.0 -
So maybe the solution is to not train for a marathon until you can handle a decent amount of mileage?
Not trying to be snarky but it is just common sense. The fact that the average marathon time is increasing means more and more people are not only taking part but taking part undertrained. This is why people get injured. I speak from experience as I went into my first one severely undertrained and injured due to newbie stupidity. It took me a couple of years before I felt comfortable enough with my base to train for another one. And by base, I mean 50 mpw for 6 months.
and I echo the importance of a mid week higher mileage run.I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.
My $.02 - I think 3, 5, 3 is not going to be nearly enough base mileage to "support" your long run. It will work ok at 12 or 14, but as you get toward 18 or 20+, more base mileage will really serve you well. Think 6, 8, 6 or 7, 8, 7 or something more along those lines.
I'm not sure 4 days really enough. 7,8,7,20 has that LSD run at like 45% of the weekly mileage. I'd say something more like 7,12,6,8,20 would be better, but still not ideal.
ETA: The long run is not the end all, be all for marathon training, but just another cog in the wheel. Total mileage over time is what develops the systems that you need to be able to complete the distance. The mid-week, mid-long run shouldn't be overlooked.
Yeah but this is probably not what the majority of runners are doing. Probably the most popular training program for novices and intermediates is Hal Higdon. He has novice and intermediate programs that only hit the 30-40 mpw range.
http://halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
http://halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program
The novice program here peaks at 5, 10, 5, 20
The intermediate program here peaks at 5, 8, 5, 5, 20
Plus lets look at the median finish time for marathon runners in the US for 2010:
Males: 4:16:14
Females: 4:42:10
http://runningusa.org/node/76115
I agree the OP originally quoted is doing an insufficient training program and will probably end up walking the last couple miles, but I don't think we need to start going the other extreme either. The more people run, the higher the occurrence of injuries. Most people who don't have serious goals would probably be taking on less injury risk following a more modest Higdon-style training program.
Its true that median marathon times are increasing, but only because running is growing. There are more novice runners doing marathons than ever before. I haven't seen any evidence that people get injured because they don't run enough miles to support their long runs or the marathon race. The only evidence I've seen is that increasing either intensity or volume too quickly can lead to overuse injuries. But plenty of people get injured in both the novice and more experienced categories.
So if everyone needs to run 60 mpw in order to run their first marathon, what percentage of those runners will ever hit that weekly volume without getting injured? Probably very few.
So what happens when you discourage people from running marathons because you tell them they aren't running enough, registration drops and marathon races start disappearing because they need runners to cover the cost of having them. I think having more races is good for all of us.0 -
From an experienced marathoner, watch out stringing 20's together weekly. You'll want to increase your mileage gradually, and peak 3-4 weeks pre-marathon with a 22-25 miler. (I never go over 22.) Continuing that volume without resting with weeks in between with lighter volume (i.e. 14-17's) is a recipe for injury. And I'll bet you'll get better performance with the dropback weeks. Beyond that, I would also vary your mid-weeks. Do an EZ, Speed, RacePace with the race pace increasing in volume. Just my ideas.
Also, those that say you need a base mileage of 50 for 6 months are either highly accomplished runners, or freaks of nature. Most bodies can't do that volume that long and stay injury free, and most people are running a marathon for an accomplishment rather than a lifestyle. I train to a base mileage of approximately 25 miles for 2-3 months for my pre-training base - (3-4 runs per week, long run of an EZ 6-10).
You're going to get advice all over the board. You need to lay out your goals of WHY you want to do this, if it's something that a once and done, or a lifestyle you're adopting. And don't overcomplicate it. Find a good program that you trust, listen to your body for injuries, stay hydrated, eat cleanly - and kick it's *kitten*. Crossing the finish line of a marathon will be a defining moment in your life. Congratulations for taking the challenge.I guess people train a little differently. I know some marathoners, and I'm going to do one later this year. I am planning on training exactly the same as I do for the Half. 3, 5, 3, Long. The only difference is instead of 12 miles, I'll start extending those to 14, 16, 18, and 20. I'll probably just do the rest of my training running 20 on Saturday until race day. That's it. It's not really rocket science. Although, maybe there's more to it than that. The guys I know that run marathons, they do exactly as I said. 3, 5, 3, and then long on Saturday, week after week.
It's funny, as someone else mentioned, that my idea of a long run has changed significantly. I used to think 5 miles was a huge run. Now, that's a warm up. Ha! I find 10 mile runs kind of easy.0 -
I've now read all these posts. Run for the hills! Not that any of it's bad advice (well, most of it isn't). But, you're hearing 17 opinions based on people's bodies / fitness / aptitude for running. Again, all good people - but based on their views. Go buy a book on marathon training, especially one for a first timer. Galloway, Higdon, etc. Then stick to it. AFTER that, if you love running and are addicted, start modifying based on your results, and like minded and like bodied people.
Best of luck.0
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