Considering running a full marathon...

grinch031

I've now read all these posts. Run for the hills! Not that any of it's bad advice (well, most of it isn't). But, you're hearing 17 opinions based on people's bodies / fitness / aptitude for running. Again, all good people - but based on their views. Go buy a book on marathon training, especially one for a first timer. Galloway, Higdon, etc. Then stick to it. AFTER that, if you love running and are addicted, start modifying based on your results, and like minded and like bodied people.

Best of luck.

This is really a pet peeve of mine when elite runners jump in saying that novices should be doing the same thing as them. 99% of these novices would get too discouraged and quit altogether. I am shooting for a 3:35 marathon this weekend and I wouldn't recommend my own training program to a novice, because mine is rather high intensity although moderate in volume (40-45mpw). I do lots of hill and speed work to compensate for lower volume. I could do higher volume but would have to lower the intensity to sustain it, which I find boring as hell, plus I'd have to sacrifice even more time from my family to do so.

brandyk77

Its true that median marathon times are increasing, but only because running is growing. There are more novice runners doing marathons than ever before. I haven't seen any evidence that people get injured because they don't run enough miles to support their long runs or the marathon race. The only evidence I've seen is that increasing either intensity or volume too quickly can lead to overuse injuries. But plenty of people get injured in both the novice and more experienced categories.

So if everyone needs to run 60 mpw in order to run their first marathon, what percentage of those runners will ever hit that weekly volume without getting injured? Probably very few.

So what happens when you discourage people from running marathons because you tell them they aren't running enough, registration drops and marathon races start disappearing because they need runners to cover the cost of having them. I think having more races is good for all of us.

Hmmm..my experience has been that most people who try to train for a marathon w/o an adequate base do get injured. Most often it is ITB, bursistis, PF, overuse and muscle imbalance type of stuff.

There is nothing wrong with wanting people to have a good base so they actually enjoy the process and the race. If you have to walk at mile 18 because you are in good enough shape, you aren't having a good time.

And the 50 mpw base was what I felt comfortable with based on my past BAD experiences with being undertrained. (I am hardly a freak of nature or an elite runner - 50 mpw is really not all that much if you are running something everyday, have 1 quality speed workout, 1 mid week long run and a weekend long run).

I would caution any runner who doesn't have at least 25 mpw for a year against training for a marathon. There is no rush. They will continue to have marathons. Do it smart.

CarsonRuns

So maybe the solution is to not train for a marathon until you can handle a decent amount of mileage?

Not trying to be snarky but it is just common sense. The fact that the average marathon time is increasing means more and more people are not only taking part but taking part undertrained. This is why people get injured. I speak from experience as I went into my first one severely undertrained and injured due to newbie stupidity. It took me a couple of years before I felt comfortable enough with my base to train for another one. And by base, I mean 50 mpw for 6 months.

and I echo the importance of a mid week higher mileage run.

Bingo!

I think that there is a public perception that you aren't a "real runner" until you have done a marathon. So not true. You can put in the same number of miles for 5K training as you do for marathon training. You don't have to run a marathon and you shouldn't until you body is able to handle it. I was running for 6 years before I even thought about it and then I still had a lot of work to do. I think that some of the running stores are to blame for this too, along with Team in Training and similar organizations. They get people to buy into the hype (and the merchandise!) of the marathon, completely ignoring the fact that they are "training" people for a marathon that just aren't physically ready to take that on. They usually end up hurt or hating the experience. It's a shame.

That and there is the bucket list mentality too. So many people just want to check it off their list and that's fine, but at least get yourself properly prepared so it doesn't suck (as much).

grinch031

Its true that median marathon times are increasing, but only because running is growing. There are more novice runners doing marathons than ever before. I haven't seen any evidence that people get injured because they don't run enough miles to support their long runs or the marathon race. The only evidence I've seen is that increasing either intensity or volume too quickly can lead to overuse injuries. But plenty of people get injured in both the novice and more experienced categories.

So if everyone needs to run 60 mpw in order to run their first marathon, what percentage of those runners will ever hit that weekly volume without getting injured? Probably very few.

So what happens when you discourage people from running marathons because you tell them they aren't running enough, registration drops and marathon races start disappearing because they need runners to cover the cost of having them. I think having more races is good for all of us.

Hmmm..my experience has been that most people who try to train for a marathon w/o an adequate base do get injured. Most often it is ITB, bursistis, PF, overuse and muscle imbalance type of stuff.

There is nothing wrong with wanting people to have a good base so they actually enjoy the process and the race. If you have to walk at mile 18 because you are in good enough shape, you aren't having a good time.

And the 50 mpw base was what I felt comfortable with based on my past BAD experiences with being undertrained. (I am hardly a freak of nature or an elite runner - 50 mpw is really not all that much if you are running something everyday, have 1 quality speed workout, 1 mid week long run and a weekend long run).

I would caution any runner who doesn't have at least 25 mpw for a year against training for a marathon. There is no rush. They will continue to have marathons. Do it smart.

I would bet the majority of runners don't like running enough or could even sustain 50 mpw without getting injured. The build-up process is the problem. It would take way too long to properly build up the distance and they would probably lose interest. If Higdon's programs were so ineffective, they would probably be adjusted. The truth is they are sufficient for most novice runners who have modest goals. My wife ran a Higdon novice program and ran the entire 26.2 miles without issue. Sure she could improve her time with more miles, but for that race her goal was to finish.

According to that link I posted earlier, the average runner only runs 4 days a week between 20-27 miles. Of course this doesn't apply to a marathon runner, but I'm just showing the majority of runners aren't *that* serious about running.

CarsonRuns

Its true that median marathon times are increasing, but only because running is growing. There are more novice runners doing marathons than ever before. I haven't seen any evidence that people get injured because they don't run enough miles to support their long runs or the marathon race. The only evidence I've seen is that increasing either intensity or volume too quickly can lead to overuse injuries. But plenty of people get injured in both the novice and more experienced categories.

I have.

So if everyone needs to run 60 mpw in order to run their first marathon, what percentage of those runners will ever hit that weekly volume without getting injured? Probably very few.

Many, if they build their base in a smart and consistent manner over time.

So what happens when you discourage people from running marathons because you tell them they aren't running enough, registration drops and marathon races start disappearing because they need runners to cover the cost of having them. I think having more races is good for all of us.

I think we could do without quite a few races (Rock and Roll, for instance) and there are many races that don't need to have 30K participants. It would be nice to not have to sign up for a marathon 9 months in advance because it sells out in a week. How am I supposed to know where I will be in my training 9 months from now? Road running has become too much of a business. These companies are filling their coffers full in the first week of registration and not always providing the best running experience.

grinch031

Its true that median marathon times are increasing, but only because running is growing. There are more novice runners doing marathons than ever before. I haven't seen any evidence that people get injured because they don't run enough miles to support their long runs or the marathon race. The only evidence I've seen is that increasing either intensity or volume too quickly can lead to overuse injuries. But plenty of people get injured in both the novice and more experienced categories.

I have.

So if everyone needs to run 60 mpw in order to run their first marathon, what percentage of those runners will ever hit that weekly volume without getting injured? Probably very few.

Many, if they build their base in a smart and consistent manner over time.

So what happens when you discourage people from running marathons because you tell them they aren't running enough, registration drops and marathon races start disappearing because they need runners to cover the cost of having them. I think having more races is good for all of us.

I think we could do without quite a few races (Rock and Roll, for instance) and there are many races that don't need to have 30K participants. It would be nice to not have to sign up for a marathon 9 months in advance because it sells out in a week. How am I supposed to know where I will be in my training 9 months from now? Road running has become too much of a business. These companies are filling their coffers full in the first week of registration and not always providing the best running experience.

So really your stance from the last two posts is that most people really have no business running marathons, because let's face it most people would not be able to follow the path you've taken to get where you are in running. I happen to disagree because I don't think you need to be in supreme physical condition to take on the distance. You think it sucks to not have an easy time getting a respectable finish time because maybe you get so tired at the end, but I think it sucks training the way you did in your training log, running 10 miles a day at 9 minute pace. That would drive me crazy.

CarsonRuns

So really your stance from the last two posts is that most people really have no business running marathons, because let's face it most people would not be able to follow the path you've taken to get where you are in running. I happen to disagree because I don't think you need to be in supreme physical condition to take on the distance. You think it sucks to not have an easy time getting a respectable finish time because maybe you get so tired at the end, but I think it sucks training the way you did in your training log, running 10 miles a day at 9 minute pace. That would drive me crazy.

Don't put words in my mouth. My stance is that there are a lot of different race distances and all of them are worthy goals. I think that a slow build up over time to get to the marathon distance is the right thing to do. I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead. Set a goal of 2 hours and work hard to get there. Enjoy the process. Become a lifelong runner. I've seen so many instances of bucket list runners that get through the marathon and never want to run again. That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport.

As for my training plan, I actually enjoy running, so 10 miles at 9 minutes per is something that I like to do. Maybe you just don't like running?

grinch031

So really your stance from the last two posts is that most people really have no business running marathons, because let's face it most people would not be able to follow the path you've taken to get where you are in running. I happen to disagree because I don't think you need to be in supreme physical condition to take on the distance. You think it sucks to not have an easy time getting a respectable finish time because maybe you get so tired at the end, but I think it sucks training the way you did in your training log, running 10 miles a day at 9 minute pace. That would drive me crazy.

Don't put words in my mouth. My stance is that there are a lot of different race distances and all of them are worthy goals. I think that a slow build up over time to get to the marathon distance is the right thing to do. I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead. Set a goal of 2 hours and work hard to get there. Enjoy the process. Become a lifelong runner. I've seen so many instances of bucket list runners that get through the marathon and never want to run again. That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport.

As for my training plan, I actually enjoy running, so 10 miles at 9 minutes per is something that I like to do. Maybe you just don't like running?

Because most people running marathons have already run half marathons. That is the next logical step right?

I like running, but I obviously don't like it as much as you. Doesn't mean I'm not ready to run a marathon because my running isn't on par with yours.

I don't see how someone is going to hate running that 5 hour marathon more than they would hate running 10 miles a day over the course of a year or more just to get to where they can attempt that marathon so that its only 3 1/2 or 4 hours. If they want a good finish time, then your advice is reasonable. But I just don't think it applies to most of the people here with goals of just finishing.

Unless you can show me studies that marathon runners following modest training programs are getting injured at an alarming rate, what you are saying sounds like elitist snobbery to me.

FitForeverAgain

Seriously, you sound like an elitist running snob in your posts. Not saying you are, but that's how it comes across. Just because you can't imagine a 5 hour miserable run being worth it, to MANY people it is. And no, to most people it is not a RACE as you see it. It's a competition with one's self, with no intention of racing anyone. I, like many people, don't care for running. But, I put in 32 miles last week. I like the results it gives me, and the challenge to accomplish something that is difficult. I have no desire to run multiple marathons, and become a lifetime hard core runner (i.e. 50+ mile weekly base - which is alot of mileage). But, just because I don't want to be a running junkie, doesn't exclude me from paying my money, entering the same race you do, and finishing it.

Best of luck in your races, I bet we won't be sharing a beer at the end...I'll leave that for us competitors, and leave your racers to your own vices. (More base mileage after the marathon?)

So really your stance from the last two posts is that most people really have no business running marathons, because let's face it most people would not be able to follow the path you've taken to get where you are in running. I happen to disagree because I don't think you need to be in supreme physical condition to take on the distance. You think it sucks to not have an easy time getting a respectable finish time because maybe you get so tired at the end, but I think it sucks training the way you did in your training log, running 10 miles a day at 9 minute pace. That would drive me crazy.

Don't put words in my mouth. My stance is that there are a lot of different race distances and all of them are worthy goals. I think that a slow build up over time to get to the marathon distance is the right thing to do. I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead. Set a goal of 2 hours and work hard to get there. Enjoy the process. Become a lifelong runner. I've seen so many instances of bucket list runners that get through the marathon and never want to run again. That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport.

As for my training plan, I actually enjoy running, so 10 miles at 9 minutes per is something that I like to do. Maybe you just don't like running?

FitForeverAgain

FYI, the "elitist snobbery" line from the above post wasn't up as I was typing mine. Funny how such a word choice came from two separate people after reading the posts... Hmmm, maybe some truth to it.

Seriously, you sound like an elitist running snob in your posts. Not saying you are, but that's how it comes across. Just because you can't imagine a 5 hour miserable run being worth it, to MANY people it is. And no, to most people it is not a RACE as you see it. It's a competition with one's self, with no intention of racing anyone. I, like many people, don't care for running. But, I put in 32 miles last week. I like the results it gives me, and the challenge to accomplish something that is difficult. I have no desire to run multiple marathons, and become a lifetime hard core runner (i.e. 50+ mile weekly base - which is alot of mileage). But, just because I don't want to be a running junkie, doesn't exclude me from paying my money, entering the same race you do, and finishing it.

Best of luck in your races, I bet we won't be sharing a beer at the end...I'll leave that for us competitors, and leave your racers to your own vices. (More base mileage after the marathon?)

So really your stance from the last two posts is that most people really have no business running marathons, because let's face it most people would not be able to follow the path you've taken to get where you are in running. I happen to disagree because I don't think you need to be in supreme physical condition to take on the distance. You think it sucks to not have an easy time getting a respectable finish time because maybe you get so tired at the end, but I think it sucks training the way you did in your training log, running 10 miles a day at 9 minute pace. That would drive me crazy.

Don't put words in my mouth. My stance is that there are a lot of different race distances and all of them are worthy goals. I think that a slow build up over time to get to the marathon distance is the right thing to do. I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead. Set a goal of 2 hours and work hard to get there. Enjoy the process. Become a lifelong runner. I've seen so many instances of bucket list runners that get through the marathon and never want to run again. That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport.

As for my training plan, I actually enjoy running, so 10 miles at 9 minutes per is something that I like to do. Maybe you just don't like running?

montana_girl

I've now read all these posts. Run for the hills! Not that any of it's bad advice (well, most of it isn't). But, you're hearing 17 opinions based on people's bodies / fitness / aptitude for running. Again, all good people - but based on their views. Go buy a book on marathon training, especially one for a first timer. Galloway, Higdon, etc. Then stick to it. AFTER that, if you love running and are addicted, start modifying based on your results, and like minded and like bodied people.

Best of luck.

Thank you! I didn't realize asking for some general tips on running a full marathon would generate such a heated response. :ohwell:

I have the Jeff Galloway Marathon Book and plan to use the "To Finish" portion. I have no big time goal in mind, I just want to finish... and finish injury free. And if this means walking the last couple of miles, so be it.

For me running, even at my slow (but steadily getting faster) pace, is a huge accomplishment. I went from being a morbidly obese couch potato to someone who runs half marathons on a fairly regulary basis. So, for me, just crossing the finish line is goal... the accomplishment... and feeling overwhelming pride.

I'll never be first... or fast... but I will have a smile every time I cross the finish line. :bigsmile:

brandyk77

wow - so I guess wanting to do my best in my training and wanting to help people not make the same mistakes that I did when I started makes me an elitest snob. I had no idea.

Here is a very important difference

Elite snob - "oh my god, I can't believe you want to do a marathon and not run a sub 330. Is that even running? They should have a 4 hr cut off"

Me - "I think you should do whatever you can to properly prepare yourself to do YOUR BEST on race day. A good base and quality workouts are a great place to start. Here is some of my experiences with running over the past 10 years and the mistakes I have made. Please take from it what you will"

FYI, the "elitist snobbery" line from the above post wasn't up as I was typing mine. Funny how such a word choice came from two separate people after reading the posts... Hmmm, maybe some truth to it.

Chagama

1. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Lots of people will say that you are crazy, it's nuts to run that far, why are you killing yourself, etc. You can do it, don't listen to them.

2. The mental part is harder than the physical part. On days where the long runs aren't going well, or it's hot out, it's easy to start talking yourself into stopping. It's hard to keep going sometimes.

3. The feeling of accomplishment you get when reaching the finish line is amazing. No way to describe it, you have to experience it.

4. Agree with the people who suggest find a training plan and stick to it. Don't change plans in the middle. Different plans are based on different theories, and changing in the middle may lead to injury.

5. I use the FIRST plan. Don't know that it's better than any other, but it works for me, and there is some good science behind it. I also like plans that get you up to the 20 mile runs quicker. The plans that build up to one final 20 mile training run at the end. If that one day doesn't go well, it's a problem FIRST has a marathon plan for first time runners which I don't like for that reason. I have used it and had that problem. I prefer their regular plan, which is much harder, but has several 20 mile runs. Downside to FIRST - they've taken all their stuff off the website and you have to buy their book for $12. However it is a good book with lots of good information in it about running in general, exercise in general, nutrition, injuries, etc.

6. Experiment with what to eat before long runs, how much to drink, etc. during training. Everyone is different, and our bodies are all different. Get it figured out before the race. Don't do anything on the race day that you haven't done before.

7. To go along with that, run once or twice in the rain during training. It's normal to arrange running days around the weather, but it might rain on the marathon day, and it's good to have some idea what clothing works for you. I had that happen once, didn't know what to wear, and made some poor choices and had a less than phenomenal experience that day.

8. Have fun! Enjoy the training, getting outside, having the quiet time to yourself. Enjoy the race, too many people get so worried about pace and drinking and logistics that they forget to enjoy the experience.

grinch031

wow - so I guess wanting to do my best in my training and wanting to help people not make the same mistakes that I did when I started makes me an elitest snob. I had no idea.

Here is a very important difference

Elite snob - "oh my god, I can't believe you want to do a marathon and not run a sub 330. Is that even running? They should have a 4 hr cut off"

Me - "I think you should do whatever you can to properly prepare yourself to do YOUR BEST on race day. A good base and quality workouts are a great place to start. Here is some of my experiences with running over the past 10 years and the mistakes I have made. Please take from it what you will"

FYI, the "elitist snobbery" line from the above post wasn't up as I was typing mine. Funny how such a word choice came from two separate people after reading the posts... Hmmm, maybe some truth to it.

Well I was referring to Carson's posts but I don't think yours are far off. Why, because its not your business what 'YOUR BEST' is for another runner. Not everyone wants to run as much as you, and I don't see why they shouldn't run a marathon without following your advice, when there are actual experts on the subject who have other programs that cater to their goals.

I think you need to weigh the balance between the trade-off between the effort and risks in training vs the payoff on race day. Its not the same for everyone.

CarsonRuns

I'm sorry if my comments come off sounding elitist, but that is far from the truth. I think that some of what I have said has been twisted and taken out of context. I have disdain for the running industry and the direction in which it is going, but not for the runners themselves that want to get out there and run. I believe that many beginning runners are being misguided by the industry.

I don't know where you got the impression that I suggest a 50 mpw base before running a marathon. I have consistently advocated a base of 20 to 30 miles per week for a year before embarking on a marathon training program. Find my posts, you'll see that's true. Grinch, you keep throwing that number out 10 miles a day every day. I never said that was necessary for anyone. What my training program consists of is NOT what I would advocate for anyone UNLESS they have the base mileage that I have. Every runner is different and will require a different plan, so stop comparing my plan to what I give as advice. They are not the same. Period.

FitForeverAgain

They weren't aimed at your comments, and yes there is an important difference between what you quote. The likes of these comments fall closer to the latter than the former:

"I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead."

"That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport."

"I think we could do without quite a few races (Rock and Roll, for instance) and there are many races that don't need to have 30K participants. It would be nice to not have to sign up for a marathon 9 months in advance"

"That and there is the bucket list mentality too. So many people just want to check it off their list"

wow - so I guess wanting to do my best in my training and wanting to help people not make the same mistakes that I did when I started makes me an elitest snob. I had no idea.

Here is a very important difference

Elite snob - "oh my god, I can't believe you want to do a marathon and not run a sub 330. Is that even running? They should have a 4 hr cut off"

Me - "I think you should do whatever you can to properly prepare yourself to do YOUR BEST on race day. A good base and quality workouts are a great place to start. Here is some of my experiences with running over the past 10 years and the mistakes I have made. Please take from it what you will"

FYI, the "elitist snobbery" line from the above post wasn't up as I was typing mine. Funny how such a word choice came from two separate people after reading the posts... Hmmm, maybe some truth to it.

grinch031

I'm sorry if my comments come off sounding elitist, but that is far from the truth. I think that some of what I have said has been twisted and taken out of context. I have disdain for the running industry and the direction in which it is going, but not for the runners themselves that want to get out there and run. I believe that many beginning runners are being misguided by the industry.

I don't know where you got the impression that I suggest a 50 mpw base before running a marathon. I have consistently advocated a base of 20 to 30 miles per week for a year before embarking on a marathon training program. Find my posts, you'll see that's true. Grinch, you keep throwing that number out 10 miles a day every day. I never said that was necessary for anyone. What my training program consists of is NOT what I would advocate for anyone UNLESS they have the base mileage that I have. Every runner is different and will require a different plan, so stop comparing my plan to what I give as advice. They are not the same. Period.

I think its fair that you don't agree with the direction the running industry is going, although I disagree to an extent. As someone who has tried to go out and wing a marathon while under-trained, I know what its like to not be prepared, but I've also seen what a major difference even moderate improvements in training can do. This is why I support the more novice training programs that seem insufficient to you.

And in one post you recommended 7, 12, 6, 8, 20 which adds up to 53 mpw, which I think is kinda high and not necessary for a novice. Also part of my responses were to Brandy who advocates a 50 mpw base.

FitForeverAgain

That's appreciated. Like I said, my bet is that you're not a running elitist snob...it's that some of your comments come off that way. I understand your passion for the sport (even though we don't share it), and I think that gives you a different take on things. I respect that, and love that you're up in front of the pack and pushing the rest of us. Just a very different mindset of the "why" to run a marathon. Let's just mutually say we've got different reasons for running - and I'll let you have yours if you let me have mine.

I'm sorry if my comments come off sounding elitist, but that is far from the truth. I think that some of what I have said has been twisted and taken out of context. I have disdain for the running industry and the direction in which it is going, but not for the runners themselves that want to get out there and run. I believe that many beginning runners are being misguided by the industry.

I don't know where you got the impression that I suggest a 50 mpw base before running a marathon. I have consistently advocated a base of 20 to 30 miles per week for a year before embarking on a marathon training program. Find my posts, you'll see that's true. Grinch, you keep throwing that number out 10 miles a day every day. I never said that was necessary for anyone. What my training program consists of is NOT what I would advocate for anyone UNLESS they have the base mileage that I have. Every runner is different and will require a different plan, so stop comparing my plan to what I give as advice. They are not the same. Period.

CarsonRuns

They weren't aimed at your comments, and yes there is an important difference between what you quote. The likes of these comments fall closer to the latter than the former:

"I can't imagine why anyone would want to run for 5 hours and be miserable for a lot of it. It is a RACE, after all, isn't it? Train for a HM instead."

"That's just not healthy, especially if you are trying to grow the sport."

"I think we could do without quite a few races (Rock and Roll, for instance) and there are many races that don't need to have 30K participants. It would be nice to not have to sign up for a marathon 9 months in advance"

"That and there is the bucket list mentality too. So many people just want to check it off their list"

Nice. Why don't you quote the entire text. Like I said, being taken out of context.

CarsonRuns

And in one post you recommended 7, 12, 6, 8, 20 which adds up to 53 mpw, which I think is kinda high and not necessary for a novice. Also part of my responses were to Brandy who advocates a 50 mpw base.

That's not base. That has a 20 in it, so that would reflect the high mileage week of a novice/intermediate program.

grinch031

And in one post you recommended 7, 12, 6, 8, 20 which adds up to 53 mpw, which I think is kinda high and not necessary for a novice. Also part of my responses were to Brandy who advocates a 50 mpw base.

That's not base. That has a 20 in it, so that would reflect the high mileage week of a novice/intermediate program.

Okay I guess my point really is that I don't think running that kind of mileage at any stage of training is necessary for a novice with modest goals. I think it is highly likely the average novice will end up injured simply trying to reach that level of weekly mileage no matter how slowly they try to build it up.

brandyk77

Also part of my responses were to Brandy who advocates a 50 mpw base.

I never said I advocated a 50 mpw base. I said that I built up to that as I wanted a great base before trying another marathon. That was my experience. I went down in flames and got hurt during my first go ahead and I didn't want it to happen again. And to a certain extent it worked. While I didn't race overly well, I did PR by over 30 min from my first attempt and this was after having a nasty bout of sickness the last month of quality training (it was resp so I had to reduce my mileage) and the weather being horrible for the race at 70F with 100% humidity.

As earlier stated, I believe that 25mpw for a year is a quality base for starting marathon training.

CarsonRuns

Okay I guess my point really is that I don't think running that kind of mileage at any stage of training is necessary for a novice with modest goals. I think it is highly likely the average novice will end up injured simply trying to reach that level of weekly mileage no matter how slowly they try to build it up.

Fair enough if you don't think it's necessary. It obviously depends upon the goal of the individual. I would dispute that the average novice would end up injured. I started with a base of about 30 miles per week before building to the mid 40s. I know I'm only a study of one, but I am average, and old to boot.

montana_girl

7. To go along with that, run once or twice in the rain during training. It's normal to arrange running days around the weather, but it might rain on the marathon day, and it's good to have some idea what clothing works for you. I had that happen once, didn't know what to wear, and made some poor choices and had a less than phenomenal experience that day.

8. Have fun! Enjoy the training, getting outside, having the quiet time to yourself. Enjoy the race, too many people get so worried about pace and drinking and logistics that they forget to enjoy the experience.

I never thought about training in the rain -- that is great advice! Thanks! :happy:

michellekicks

I love this thread and I want to thank everyone who put in their thoughts... I would love to run a full next year, but may hold off another year. I just really got back into running last year and I'm going to do my 2nd half this summer (first one was several years ago before kids, so it's like I'm a novice.)

I run about 20 miles/week now and my half is in August. If I consider a full it will probably be next fall/October.

grinch031

Also part of my responses were to Brandy who advocates a 50 mpw base.

I never said I advocated a 50 mpw base. I said that I built up to that as I wanted a great base before trying another marathon. That was my experience. I went down in flames and got hurt during my first go ahead and I didn't want it to happen again. And to a certain extent it worked. While I didn't race overly well, I did PR by over 30 min from my first attempt and this was after having a nasty bout of sickness the last month of quality training (it was resp so I had to reduce my mileage) and the weather being horrible for the race at 70F with 100% humidity.

As earlier stated, I believe that 25mpw for a year is a quality base for starting marathon training.

I know a lot of people that did Higdon novice 1 which doesn't advocate a strong base beforehand and did just fine finishing. Sure their times weren't good and maybe walked some, but they still enjoyed the challenge. I haven't seen some epidemic of injuries or hatred of the marathon from the runners following this plan.

Although I still recommend running a Half before attempting a full, because you get a feel for whether you enjoy it enough to want to put in the extra effort.

sheri02r

Some great advice here. Thanks!