DOMS, Overtraining, and Deload Weeks
joejccva71
Posts: 2,985 Member
I figured it was time for another thread because 1) I was bored, and 2) It's been a week or so since people have thrown darts at my picture on the wall.
So with that being said I'd like to talk about DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) and the differences between having successful progressive overload....and training until you are blue in the face causing more harm than good.
A lot of people get all giggly and happy when they get DOMS or they get really sore after a day of hard training at the gym. I should let people know ahead of time that just because you get DOMS does NOT mean you are building muscle mass and/or gaining strength.
In a one sentence explanation of what DOMS is: DOMS is soreness due to the body's inflammatory response to exercise and training.
It is NOT a reliable factor that you are gaining strength, mass, and progression. It IS a factor that if you are continuing to do the same exercises and you continue to get DOMS every time, then you are most likely overtraining. This is especially true if your diet is spot on. This is also the same reason why bodybuilders and athletes do not do FST-7 training every single time they work out. FST-7 training is an entirely different subject and won't get into it here.
If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS.
If you find yourself plateau'd on a particular bodypart, exercise or amount of weight, then you might want to think about taking a "deload week" which is a period of time where you either:
1. Do less volume, but keep the same intensity of your training for a week.
2. Do less weight, but keep volume and intensity up for a week.
2. Take an entire week off.
To be quite honest, you SHOULD be taking a deload week once every 6-8 weeks anyways to give your Central Nervous System a break. It makes a difference.
Anyways, I hoped this thread helped.
-J
So with that being said I'd like to talk about DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) and the differences between having successful progressive overload....and training until you are blue in the face causing more harm than good.
A lot of people get all giggly and happy when they get DOMS or they get really sore after a day of hard training at the gym. I should let people know ahead of time that just because you get DOMS does NOT mean you are building muscle mass and/or gaining strength.
In a one sentence explanation of what DOMS is: DOMS is soreness due to the body's inflammatory response to exercise and training.
It is NOT a reliable factor that you are gaining strength, mass, and progression. It IS a factor that if you are continuing to do the same exercises and you continue to get DOMS every time, then you are most likely overtraining. This is especially true if your diet is spot on. This is also the same reason why bodybuilders and athletes do not do FST-7 training every single time they work out. FST-7 training is an entirely different subject and won't get into it here.
If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS.
If you find yourself plateau'd on a particular bodypart, exercise or amount of weight, then you might want to think about taking a "deload week" which is a period of time where you either:
1. Do less volume, but keep the same intensity of your training for a week.
2. Do less weight, but keep volume and intensity up for a week.
2. Take an entire week off.
To be quite honest, you SHOULD be taking a deload week once every 6-8 weeks anyways to give your Central Nervous System a break. It makes a difference.
Anyways, I hoped this thread helped.
-J
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Replies
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Thanks for this Joe. I think the long deload (knee injury) did a lot of good for my legs.
I didn't know about the DOMS though. I usually like that feeling since it makes me feel like I've successfully pushed myself hard enough.0 -
Also to addon to what I said about DOMS. If you are changing up your routine so you are doing different exercises to work different muscle groups, and you get DOMS...then that is a different story and it's fine.
Just wanted to be clear.0 -
I like this post. Thanks for the information. I was planning on taking a break after I finish my current program and always take a week or 2 off just because I feel my body needs a break.0
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So here's my current lifting schedule:
Mondays: arms and shoulders (and thanks to you) including rotator cuff
Wednesday: chest and back
Friday: legs (squats, deads, legpresses, calf raises)
I normally do sets of 5x4 up to 8x4 depending on the weight and the lift. Usually the last rep in the set is difficult but not impossible.
Am I pushing too hard? Should I back off. I really want to keep making strength gains in my upper body especially. My legs seem to have stalled out since my knees have been injured so I'm easing back into my leg lifts.0 -
Thanks for the information. I consistently have to deal with the doms, but that would be because I have not focused on strength training much. DOMS is what tends to stop me from wanting to workout. I don't focus much on weights, but body weight and have just started to do some of the crossfit workouts. I'm going to take the advice and be mindful of how the muscle soreness behaves while I'm starting the strength training.0
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I figured it was time for another thread because 1) I was bored, and 2) It's been a week or so since people have thrown darts at my picture on the wall.
So with that being said I'd like to talk about DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) and the differences between having successful progressive overload....and training until you are blue in the face causing more harm than good.
A lot of people get all giggly and happy when they get DOMS or they get really sore after a day of hard training at the gym. I should let people know ahead of time that just because you get DOMS does NOT mean you are building muscle mass and/or gaining strength.
In a one sentence explanation of what DOMS is: DOMS is soreness due to the body's inflammatory response to exercise and training.
It is NOT a reliable factor that you are gaining strength, mass, and progression. It IS a factor that if you are continuing to do the same exercises and you continue to get DOMS every time, then you are most likely overtraining. This is especially true if your diet is spot on. This is also the same reason why bodybuilders and athletes do not do FST-7 training every single time they work out. FST-7 training is an entirely different subject and won't get into it here.
If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS.
If you find yourself plateau'd on a particular bodypart, exercise or amount of weight, then you might want to think about taking a "deload week" which is a period of time where you either:
1. Do less volume, but keep the same intensity of your training for a week.
2. Do less weight, but keep volume and intensity up for a week.
2. Take an entire week off.
To be quite honest, you SHOULD be taking a deload week once every 6-8 weeks anyways to give your Central Nervous System a break. It makes a difference.
Anyways, I hoped this thread helped.
-J
Excellent post.
Now I know why my shoulders are not getting stronger. I've been doing shoulder exercises with the same amount of weight for more than 3 months now & my shoulders still don't let me lift 5 lbs. heavier. :grumble:
Also I just upped my weights for bench press but the last time that I did it, my shoulders again didn't let me lift it & so I ended up doing dropsetsAlso to addon to what I said about DOMS. If you are changing up your routine so you are doing different exercises to work different muscle groups, and you get DOMS...then that is a different story and it's fine.
Thanks, I'm having it right now0 -
Bump0
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For some reason this didn't get to the top so I have to type out this nice long and useless sentence.
Carry on.0 -
Thanks for a great post, Joe! I must admit I'm frustrated at the moment. I'm stalled at weight (doing StrongLifts 5x5) and when I'm squatting the upper part of my quad where it meets your groin area hurts on one of my legs and I'm thinking maybe I do need a week of rest but am petrified I'll gain weight!!
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What should be done when you have DOMS that lingers for several days so you can get on with your life? Should those muscles be worked at all? Should they be fed more protein? and water? Any suggestions to reduce the time DOMS lasts?
Sorry if these are dumb nOOb questions, but thats what I am.
Thanks0 -
bump0
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What should be done when you have DOMS that lingers for several days so you can get on with your life? Should those muscles be worked at all? Should they be fed more protein? and water? Any suggestions to reduce the time DOMS lasts?
Sorry if these are dumb nOOb questions, but thats what I am.
Thanks
While you have DOMS you need to just stick to your normal rest/days off routine and your diet. The amount of time DOMS lasts depends on a number of factors including age, your current athletic conditioning state, diet, and your skeletal muscular system.
You don't need to feed your body extra protein in this state, but stick to your diet and training. Do your cardio fasted.0 -
Not a bad post Joe.
I always see people talking about "what a great workout" they had because they're sore.
I'd rather hit a PR and not be sore the next day, so I can continue training hard.
Deloads are definitely a good idea. I never take a full week off, but I reduce my work load for 4-7 days once a month. Keeps me feeling fresh and keeps injuries down.0 -
What should be done when you have DOMS that lingers for several days so you can get on with your life? Should those muscles be worked at all? Should they be fed more protein? and water? Any suggestions to reduce the time DOMS lasts?
Sorry if these are dumb nOOb questions, but thats what I am.
Thanks
Depends on the muscles. Typically if I have DOMS the next day, I'll work the muscles lightly.
If I do squats on tuesday, chances are I'll drag a sled on wednesday to promote recovery.
same thing with bench, the next day I'll typically do a few sets of pushdowns to get some blood flowing.
More food obviously helps recovery, but if you're trying to lose weight, that isn't really an option.
My go to things are creatine &contrast showers0 -
Whether or not people like Ian McCarthy or not, he does have a pretty decent video explaining muscle soreness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFK25FevjQ 0 -
Bumping for appreciation. It kills me every time I see someone saying something along the lines of "I had a great workout yesterday; I'm so sore!"0
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Any suggestions to reduce the time DOMS lasts?
Sorry if these are dumb nOOb questions, but thats what I am.
Thanks
Here's some suggestions that can help with recovery, in no relevant order:
1. Adequate sleep.
2. Appropriate stretching pre-post workout (you could also add on other times to do this as well).
3. Regular foam rolling and/or massages
4. Cardio
5. Deloads/breaks from training
6. Adequate nutrition along with appropriate pre/during/post workout nutrition
7. Fish oils/multivitamin/other supplements
8. Epsom salt baths and/or contrast baths
9. Low intensity work in the pool0 -
Yup, people definitely confuse being sore or even just feeling beat to death after a workout as a sign of a good workout. Hell, some people aren't happy unless they are near to, or actually puking. The puking especially is a sign that something is wrong and can have negative ramification to your CNS. You wear your CNS out and you won't be training, you won't even feel like getting out of bed.
The term Deload gets tossed around a lot but is everybody here pretty clear of what actual Deload is? Because I get the impression people think it's a complete break from lifting but it's not.0 -
Yeah, I was getting minor DOMS constantly the last few weeks. I'm on a deload now.0
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I always hurt, 24 hours after i work a muscle group. If i dont, I know i didn't work it hard enough. Thats my reality.
I'm not talking about standing on an elliptical for an hour, I'm talking about tearing your body down brick by brick to make it bigger and stronger........
Arnold on becoming a champion:
“The only way to be a champion is by going through these forced reps and the torture and pain. That’s why I call it the torture routine. Because it’s like forced torture. Torturing my body. What helps me is to think of this pain as pleasure. Pain makes me grow. Growing is what I want. Therefore, for me pain is pleasure. And so when I am experiencing pain I’m in heaven. It’s great. People suggest this is masochistic. But they’re wrong. I like pain for a particular reason. I don’t like needle’s stuck in my arm. But I do like the pain that is necessary to be a champion.”0 -
You completely missed the point.0
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You completely missed the point.
elaborate as to what point i missed. I read this:
"If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS. "
and i disagree, when it comes to strength training, if the goal is to get stronger or bigger, you should be sore after. If the goal isn't to get stronger or bigger, then what exactly is the goal? Also, this is the first place i have ever heard people complain about being sore after working out..........and the fact that someone had to give it a name is even sillier.....0 -
Great post Joe, as usual.
I'm myself barely sore, but as you said, doesn't prevent a good training0 -
Great thread.
I would add that DOMS in inflammation in the connective tissue, rather than the muscle tissue itself.0 -
Thanks! I've always been bummed out when I didn't get sore, because it then felt like I didn't do enough.0
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You completely missed the point.
elaborate as to what point i missed. I read this:
"If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS. "
and i disagree, when it comes to strength training, if the goal is to get stronger or bigger, you should be sore after. If the goal isn't to get stronger or bigger, then what exactly is the goal? Also, this is the first place i have ever heard people complain about being sore after working out..........and the fact that someone had to give it a name is even sillier.....
Being sore after training doesn't mean jack as to getting stronger or building muscle mass.
Are you kidding me bro?0 -
Joe: Would you suggest a full break - or sort of a rotating break. No legs one week, no chest/arms another - or would that be counter-productive?0
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You completely missed the point.
elaborate as to what point i missed. I read this:
"If you are doing your routine after the first few times, and you don't get DOMS the day or two after, this doesn't mean that you didn't work hard enough. You do NOT need to change your routine just because you didn't get sore. So many people think they did something wrong because they didn't get DOMS. "
and i disagree, when it comes to strength training, if the goal is to get stronger or bigger, you should be sore after. If the goal isn't to get stronger or bigger, then what exactly is the goal? Also, this is the first place i have ever heard people complain about being sore after working out..........and the fact that someone had to give it a name is even sillier.....
Being sore after training doesn't mean jack as to getting stronger or building muscle mass.
Are you kidding me bro?
no I am not0 -
Awesome post Joe! This does put things in perspective.0
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and i disagree, when it comes to strength training, if the goal is to get stronger or bigger, you should be sore after
One of the main points was that soreness is NOT indicative of growth.
That would depend on the person. You are mistaken in the notion that soreness = growth. Growth = growth.If the goal isn't to get stronger or bigger, then what exactly is the goal?
If anything, you could argue that people who are sore all the time grow worse than those who do not. But that's highly variable.0
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