Crazy Problem at Work..advice plz
Replies
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Apparently after everyone left, when she came out from behind the bar, he was literally half naked, wanting to have sex.call me rough or an ahole even but .. You work at a bar you drink and hang out after hours **** happens. In a perfect world you could say blah blah there's no excuse for this behavior but guess what? She can A.) keep her job and say something to the guy or B.) quit ........ people put themselves in situations sometimes and this seems like one
Yeah, you're an as*hole. Sounded to me like she was AT WORK doing her job and he was off his shift....
But she was prob wearing a skirt, and so she asked for it, right?
seems she was there after close
and no im not playing she was asking for it ...... I'm just saying as an adult you shouldn't put yourself in situations where things like that can happen ..... hrmmm my boss is drinking and no one is around ...0 -
Well, he didn't rape her or beat the hell out of her, so while he did sexually harass her, he didn't actually DO anything to her.
Actually, he did DO something to her. Something illegal. Something WAY out of line.
The fact that he didn't rape her doesn't change that he violated her and broke the law.
If I hold up a liquor store at gunpoint, but I don't shoot the clerk, the judge doesn't say, Well it was awfully good that you didn't kill the clerk.....I have to face the consequences of the laws I broke.
It's up to her to press charges, but I cannot believe how cavalier the attitude contained in that comment is.0 -
I don't think you should have your balls busted for what you said.... you are right, it could have been much worse and damn you were called at 0300 and didn't exactly know that was coming. So with that being said, you have a bit of a sticky situation here.
She called you directly confiding in you about the situation so even though you didn't ask for it, the ball has been thrown in your corner and you could be wrong for not acting on it in one form or fashion. Not only is it moraly correct to not ignore the situation, you have a legal obligation to it especially if the situation arises again and she does get raped.
If he did it once, then the chances of it happening again at some point in time with her or another female employee are very high especially if the situation is not handled.
I do not agree that he should be sued nor do I agree that his family should be destroyed over the situation and if it's a town of 7000 people his whole life might be in the balance right now. That doesn't excuse him for what he did, but anyone here that has ever been drunk more than a few times in their life has done something really stupid, whether it was drinkiing and driving, mailbox baseball, mooning someone, or coming on to a woman agressively. I know there is a line drawn in the sand between agressive and assualt.
First and foremost her safety needs to be addressed. Under no cirumstances should she be left alone with him at this point so long as she works there at least until the situation is addressed and fixed. How you go about it, is up to you but it is a must.
Second, you need to have a real one on one personal private conversation with her. You need to see how she feels now and you need to document it, i.e. at least take notes. But the main thing you need to do is find out how she really feels about it. What I mean is, does she feel she was assualted, was she harrassed, or was she embarrased. Finding out the level of what she feels happened ot her will help assit you in taking the correct course of action.
3rd, figure out a course of action. Yes she needs her job, but ultimatly her safety is the main concern. If she feels assualted then the situation needs to be handed to the authorites. If she feels harrassed then in my own opinon that puts it in the middle. You can take it to the authorities criminal or civil court or you can handle it in house. If she feels her true safety was not at risk and she may just be more embarrassed or what not of the situation then I would handle it in house.
Which ever course of action is taken it needs to be agreed on between you and the lady. Nothing about this can be un done and even though we all do stupid stuff when drinking, it't not excusable. But, each course of action has it's consequences from light to permanent and life destroying and that needs to be examined before taking the course of action because it cannot be undone once started. Whatever action is decided on, then that is what you should stick with and be decisive about it.
I wish you luck on that situation as it's not an easy one to be in and it has a lot of factors to consider as it's not a cut and dry siutation when you where not there and are stuck in the middle.
***DISCLAIMER**** I'm not a lawyer nor am I affiliated with any form of law office. This is solely solicited advice and my own opinion.
****SOURCE**** 16 years of Army service, currently serving, and have seen a ridiculous amount of these "types" of situations....
This actually pretty much covers everything.
Even sort of the steps to take, depending on other details.
I'm probably gonna either copy/paste this, or email that whole part to her.
That's a very clear outline of what has happened, and what could.
Thank you, you've helped quite a bit.0 -
Apparently after everyone left, when she came out from behind the bar, he was literally half naked, wanting to have sex.call me rough or an ahole even but .. You work at a bar you drink and hang out after hours **** happens. In a perfect world you could say blah blah there's no excuse for this behavior but guess what? She can A.) keep her job and say something to the guy or B.) quit ........ people put themselves in situations sometimes and this seems like one
Yeah, you're an as*hole. Sounded to me like she was AT WORK doing her job and he was off his shift....
But she was prob wearing a skirt, and so she asked for it, right?
seems she was there after close
Most bartenders have to be there after close to clean up/close up.
Wow....0 -
Apparently after everyone left, when she came out from behind the bar, he was literally half naked, wanting to have sex.call me rough or an ahole even but .. You work at a bar you drink and hang out after hours **** happens. In a perfect world you could say blah blah there's no excuse for this behavior but guess what? She can A.) keep her job and say something to the guy or B.) quit ........ people put themselves in situations sometimes and this seems like one
Yeah, you're an as*hole. Sounded to me like she was AT WORK doing her job and he was off his shift....
But she was prob wearing a skirt, and so she asked for it, right?
seems she was there after close
Ya, bar closes at 2am, the boss was left in there as she shut everything and did the till.
We often give him a ride home.
Well, we USED to ............0 -
As someone who has tended bar in a rough and tumble bar or two...and really needed the job...maybe, just maybe since the boss has a hard time being the one to assure the safety of his employees, he should hire an extra hand to be be around so that there are always two people on at a time. You know, the buddy system...0
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It just sounds like a recipe for disaster0
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I had no clue what to say. Other then 'thats weird as hell' and..well at least you're home and safe. I was NOT expecting to hear anything as nuts as this.
I really still don't know what to say.
OK - a few thoughts here:
1. Affirm to her that this does fit in the category of sexual harassment and attempted sexual assault. Validate her feelings of being violated, scared and confused. Don't downplay it again.
2. If she can't/won't leave the job, help her develop a safety plan. Involve others that work late at the bar. Like NO ONE is left alone with just the boss at the end of the night - keep up a buddy system. NO ONE gives him a ride home, let him know you will be either calling a cab or his wife to pick him up if he is unsafe to drive. NO ONE goes in a room/office alone with him with the door shut.
3. Help her recognize that she has options both to call the police to report it, or to make a record so that when this gets out (small town and all that) she has the option to fight being fired using sexual harassment/hostile work environment laws. She doesn't have to use these options, it will help her feel stronger just knowing she has them.
4. Have two staff meet with the boss WHEN HE IS SOBER (not necessarily your friend) to let him know that his behavior gets really out of hand when he has been drinking, that he has scared and propositioned some employees while drunk, and that in order to keep everybody safe, you are going to be following the safety plan (see #2).
Hopefully she will be able to find a different job quickly since she will never feel safe working with him at night again.0 -
As someone who has tended bar in a rough and tumble bar or two...and really needed the job...maybe, just maybe since the boss has a hard time being the one to assure the safety of his employees, he should hire an extra hand to be be around so that there are always two people on at a time. You know, the buddy system...
Ya, there was 2 female bartenders, I don't understand how/when the other one left. Usually at the end we BOTH LEAVE TOGETHER. Male, or female.0 -
It's sexual harassement and nothing to make light off. Being a sloppy drunk does not excuse his behavior either. If I was the woman it happened to..I would have left him in his bar with his pants around his ankles and could have cared less if he got home or not. I would have quit then and there and the next morning be hitting the pavement looking for a new job. I know economy is bad but that does not mean you should stay in a threatening position of employment. Make light of it...go ahead. The drunken boss got away with it this time...next time it could be uglier. I know you painted the small town picture but what kind of backwards small town is it that you are not willing to take care of your own. This is 2012 NOT 1960. Protect the drunken boss and pretend it didn't happen??
I would advise your friend to press charges OR at least find another job. As a man and a gentlemen you might want to mention your boss's bad behavior to him since he won't remember himself (which is hardly an excuse)
You're super angry.
I don't feel like making fun of me, or how I'm dealing with the situation to be very helpful.
Go hit the treadmill.
They may be angry, but if they have been in a similar position, they may have cause. You telling them to "go hit the gym" is about as normal as telling your FEMALE coworker, it could have been worse. Your male....
And I will say I am kinda angry with you, as a female I've been in a similar position myself and almost didn't "escape" with nothing happening to me. I didn't tell anyone @ work, or call the cops and managed to force myself to go back to work until he DID IT AGAIN and this time is was worse!
I know you are trying to help her without making things worse for her or the boss, but you also need to stop and think about how this could be mentally effecting her. Men (and I'm sorry if this offends) often take light on sexual harassment issues. They are mostly the perprators of the crimes and NOT on the receiving end. Many also don't see what they are doing as SOMETHING wrong to the woman.... or most don't care.
Not many men would admit to being "raped". And if they do, they are almost never "blamed" for whatever reasons.
Now.... as to your friend & coworker, she needs to address this with the boss, either with you as backup or maybe the other female (one who works in the police) and make sure this DOESN'T happen again. Or she can quit.... Either way, remember that this has effected her negatively - you said she called you crying - if it's just "pushed under the rug" it leaves the chance of it going south quickly.0 -
As someone who has tended bar in a rough and tumble bar or two...and really needed the job...maybe, just maybe since the boss has a hard time being the one to assure the safety of his employees, he should hire an extra hand to be be around so that there are always two people on at a time. You know, the buddy system...
Ya, there was 2 female bartenders, I don't understand how/when the other one left. Usually at the end we BOTH LEAVE TOGETHER. Male, or female.
Exactly something went wrong here.0 -
& Your response to her was "It could of been worse"...that's just crazy.
He could've actually raped her, or beat the hell outta her.
I feel it coulda been way worse.
That's not crazy at all.
I'm thankful it didnt' escalate.
perhaps if you are privy to some information that makes you feel that the boss is capable of escalating such a situation, then you should have let the girls know so that they would have been more on their guard?0 -
I'm gonna say, that everyone in this thread is RIGHT in their suggestions and input.
If this instance happened 1000x over, there's no 100% perfect way to handle it.
So thanks for information and advice, regardless of what ends up happening.
Also, hopefully this thread can somehow help others in the future, if something similar somehow happens. (heaven forbid)
One thing I think we can all agree upon, if you want to pick up a women, flashing her seems to be the wrong course of action.0 -
I didn't read through the entire thread...but go with her when she confronts your boss...let her know that you believe her and that you're behind her 100%. And it will also let him know that he's a pervert, and that he should re-think his drinking habits. Give her courage to stick up for herself0
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^^^This, especially if you are willing to be there with her when she confronts him. If there is a witness to the conversation, he's much less likey to fire her and much less likely to do it again. She should also make it clear that there will be no more rides home, someone else can come and get him. In a car, she's in danger of having an accident while fending him off. Yes, the police could be called, but I totally get the point of not doing it because you need the job. I probably would not report it, but I would let him know exactly what happened, what won't happen again, and I'd have a witness to the entire conversation.The situation can't be ignored. As uncomfortable as she may feel she should talk to him about it, especially since there are many levels to the relationships. He needs to be told what he did and acknowledge his behavior. If she ignores it is more likely to occur again. If you feel comfortable with it, it would be good for you to be there with her as moral support. He needs to know this isn't a secret because the secrecy gives him more power and again increases the likelihood he may do it again. It is an uncomfortable situation. It may be just a one time thing and no matter what she does wouldn't happen again but I think my advice above may be her best course of action if she needs the job and can't/doesnt want to severe ties. Best of luck to her and you!0 -
I don't think you should have your balls busted for what you said.... you are right, it could have been much worse and damn you were called at 0300 and didn't exactly know that was coming. So with that being said, you have a bit of a sticky situation here.
She called you directly confiding in you about the situation so even though you didn't ask for it, the ball has been thrown in your corner and you could be wrong for not acting on it in one form or fashion. Not only is it moraly correct to not ignore the situation, you have a legal obligation to it especially if the situation arises again and she does get raped.
If he did it once, then the chances of it happening again at some point in time with her or another female employee are very high especially if the situation is not handled.
I do not agree that he should be sued nor do I agree that his family should be destroyed over the situation and if it's a town of 7000 people his whole life might be in the balance right now. That doesn't excuse him for what he did, but anyone here that has ever been drunk more than a few times in their life has done something really stupid, whether it was drinkiing and driving, mailbox baseball, mooning someone, or coming on to a woman agressively. I know there is a line drawn in the sand between agressive and assualt.
First and foremost her safety needs to be addressed. Under no cirumstances should she be left alone with him at this point so long as she works there at least until the situation is addressed and fixed. How you go about it, is up to you but it is a must.
Second, you need to have a real one on one personal private conversation with her. You need to see how she feels now and you need to document it, i.e. at least take notes. But the main thing you need to do is find out how she really feels about it. What I mean is, does she feel she was assualted, was she harrassed, or was she embarrased. Finding out the level of what she feels happened ot her will help assit you in taking the correct course of action.
3rd, figure out a course of action. Yes she needs her job, but ultimatly her safety is the main concern. If she feels assualted then the situation needs to be handed to the authorites. If she feels harrassed then in my own opinon that puts it in the middle. You can take it to the authorities criminal or civil court or you can handle it in house. If she feels her true safety was not at risk and she may just be more embarrassed or what not of the situation then I would handle it in house.
Which ever course of action is taken it needs to be agreed on between you and the lady. Nothing about this can be un done and even though we all do stupid stuff when drinking, it't not excusable. But, each course of action has it's consequences from light to permanent and life destroying and that needs to be examined before taking the course of action because it cannot be undone once started. Whatever action is decided on, then that is what you should stick with and be decisive about it.
I wish you luck on that situation as it's not an easy one to be in and it has a lot of factors to consider as it's not a cut and dry siutation when you where not there and are stuck in the middle.
***DISCLAIMER**** I'm not a lawyer nor am I affiliated with any form of law office. This is solely solicited advice and my own opinion.
****SOURCE**** 16 years of Army service, currently serving, and have seen a ridiculous amount of these "types" of situations....
This actually pretty much covers everything.
Even sort of the steps to take, depending on other details.
I'm probably gonna either copy/paste this, or email that whole part to her.
That's a very clear outline of what has happened, and what could.
Thank you, you've helped quite a bit.
Very welcome. I hope all goes as well as possible....0 -
I'm gonna workout, have lunch and go in half an hour early (she works in the bar that's attached to our restaurant). And maybe talk to her. From my understanding, our boss isn't (and wont be) in today.
Maybe tonight I'll talk to her after work too.0 -
They may be angry, but if they have been in a similar position, they may have cause.
Well, comments like 'letting him get away with it' and 'be a man' , 'protect the boss' etc, directed at me, like i have some sorta obligation aren't really helping the situation. I could do nothing.
All I did was wake up, eat my oatmeal and ball outta control, like each and every other day of the year.
Just cause I haven't organized a lynch mob, or someone else on here has been sexually harassed, doesn't mean I should somehow be talked down to.
I bolded the important parts. ^0 -
If the situation is ignored, how far will he push the envelope next time?0
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it sounds like both of these people need help.
First, the woman - she needs a strong support system. "Nothing" may have happened but "something" did if she's crying and calling you at night for a friend to lean on - that something is emotional trauma and can linger in her mind for years to come. She needs to know that you're there for her no matter what, and that you'll hear her out regardless of who or what she needs to talk about. She clearly already trusts you as it is, but make sure that you verbalize your willingness to lend her an ear. Tell her that if she ever feels threatened, you'll be there for her. Make sure she does not have to be alone with this man - even if he really was just drunk and has no recollection. His behavior is not going to change how she reacts.
Second, the man - it sounds like you know his wife, great. Have him and her meet you and explain the situation gently - if the woman above can handle it (and only she will k now if she can) then have her come along, too. Otherwise, just explain that you're being a mediator as a friend and trying to resolve the situation before it potentially escalates. Explain to your friend and his wife that he got drunk one night recently and nearly sexually assaulted a fellow employee. He probably doesn't remember or even realize that his behavior has gone so far. Then ask him if he's willing to get help for his problem - as he clearly has one. (That is why his wife needs to be there.)
Both probably need outside help, therapy at the least, but he honestly needs to get control of his relationship with alcohol if he's possibly hurting other people when consuming it.0 -
Well, I think you are a good friend to follow up and be concerned. It's important to feel supported and safe when you are slinging drinks at a busy bar. Ultimately, however she chooses to proceed is her own choice. Best wishes to you both! I0
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