You will lose your lean mass if you just do cardio
michellekicks
Posts: 3,624 Member
I would like to see some scientific proof that you'll lose lean mass or become "skinny fat" by just doing cardio. Honestly, I haven't lifted weights since my early 20's. I've run, done yoga, done martial arts for years... I had a DEXA scan done in 2004 at 29 years of age that showed I have 120 lbs of lean mass and I had one done a few weeks ago that showed the same 120 lbs of lean mass. I haven't lifted a single weight in that time and my diet has been all over the board, two pregnancies... not to mention 8 years have passed.
So... why is it that people are told not to do cardio only? If you already have a decent muscle base, why not just burn off the fat? I don't understand. It seems pretty hard to lose muscle... there was a time I wanted to.
So... why is it that people are told not to do cardio only? If you already have a decent muscle base, why not just burn off the fat? I don't understand. It seems pretty hard to lose muscle... there was a time I wanted to.
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I'd like to see the answer too. I'm currently just doing cardio but have been contemplating starting some strength training. When I lost my weight before (I gained it all back when I got pregnant) I did strength training and got a little too muscular for my liking. I had those bumps on my neck and I thought it was a little too much.
The point is, I don't want them again. Nor do I care about cut arms and my thighs are already muscular enough. I've been searching the interwebs for a strength training routine that doesn't build you up, but I'm nervous about all the ones I've seen.0 -
You've just stated that you do yoga (static strength resistance training), martial arts (involves explosive strikes and kicks which is anaerobic and considered resistance training). So you JUST haven't been doing cardio only.I would like to see some scientific proof that you'll lose lean mass or become "skinny fat" by just doing cardio. Honestly, I haven't lifted weights since my early 20's. I've run, done yoga, done martial arts for years... I had a DEXA scan done in 2004 at 29 years of age that showed I have 120 lbs of lean mass and I had one done a few weeks ago that showed the same 120 lbs of lean mass. I haven't lifted a single weight in that time and my diet has been all over the board, two pregnancies... not to mention 8 years have passed.
So... why is it that people are told not to do cardio only? If you already have a decent muscle base, why not just burn off the fat? I don't understand. It seems pretty hard to lose muscle... there was a time I wanted to.
And lean mass doesn't ALWAYS mean muscle. You can get higher density in your bones, organs can gain mass etc.
But there have been studies done that show if protein balance is insufficient, muscle breakdown occurs.
Not much of a problem for the average runner of course - a jog around the block or even a 5k is not the same as a distance runner in training who does a half-marathon every day, and sprinters probably come under the strength training header since they're doing brief spurts of anaerobic activity.
Cyclists however can easily wind up with elevated protein breakdown - good thing you guys tend to drink lots of sugar water (sports drink). Insulin inhibits the breakdown of muscle protein...
And you do want to replace the glycogen stores pretty much immediately for optimal sports performance(Sports Med; 21(1), 7-17, 1996.) - it does make a difference for both us lifters and you endurance guys.
Plus, if glycogen stores remain remain low, muscle protein breakdown can result and lead to loss of muscle mass (Journal of Applied Physiology; 48, 624-629, 1980) - again not neccesarily a concern for the once-around-the-block amateur, but for the long distance/long duration crowd who spend hours on the elliptical, definitely.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
The optimum quote being "if protein balance is insufficient". I did a 15 min Medline search one day just because of this stupid argument and came up with a dozen or so studies showing that endurance athletes (some up to 2 hrs a workout) who remained in nitrogen balance (i.e. protein intake was sufficient to meet needs) lost ZERO muscle mass even after doing hours of cardio only.
You have to keep this in perspective, however. There is a natural loss of muscle mass that occurs throughout life, probably starting in your mid-30s. There is also a loss of muscle mass that can occur when maintaining sizable calorie deficits.
So there are compelling reasons to include resistance exercise as part of a workout routine. But someone, esp a younger person, who is eating at maintenance is not going to continually lose muscle mass from doing a lot of cardio. Of all the dumb fitness ideas being foisted upon the public, this ranks in the top 5. Your body WILL adapt to what it is asked to do, so if all a person does is cardio, then they are going to have a body that is built to do a lot of cardio. You will have the muscle mass necessary to maintain that routine and your activties of daily living, but no more.
Again, keep in mind that I am NOT saying resistance exercise is unimportant. For overall health and long-term weight loss success, I think it is crucial. I am just trying to differentiate that from the Broscience idea that doing cardio will cause you to waste away to nothing.0 -
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And we've agreed on this before. I think what does make the difference is that many endurance athletes will use carbs instead of protein/carb packs for refueling thereby having an impact on lean muscle. But looking at that perspective of an endurance athlete, many aren't interested in any muscle gain at all since it affects their speed and time in their sport.The optimum quote being "if protein balance is insufficient". I did a 15 min Medline search one day just because of this stupid argument and came up with a dozen or so studies showing that endurance athletes (some up to 2 hrs a workout) who remained in nitrogen balance (i.e. protein intake was sufficient to meet needs) lost ZERO muscle mass even after doing hours of cardio only.
You have to keep this in perspective, however. There is a natural loss of muscle mass that occurs throughout life, probably starting in your mid-30s. There is also a loss of muscle mass that can occur when maintaining sizable calorie deficits.
So there are compelling reasons to include resistance exercise as part of a workout routine. But someone, esp a younger person, who is eating at maintenance is not going to continually lose muscle mass from doing a lot of cardio. Of all the dumb fitness ideas being foisted upon the public, this ranks in the top 5. Your body WILL adapt to what it is asked to do, so if all a person does is cardio, then they are going to have a body that is built to do a lot of cardio. You will have the muscle mass necessary to maintain that routine and your activties of daily living, but no more.
Again, keep in mind that I am NOT saying resistance exercise is unimportant. For overall health and long-term weight loss success, I think it is crucial. I am just trying to differentiate that from the Broscience idea that doing cardio will cause you to waste away to nothing.
I'll have to say that most people who concentrate only on cardio to lose that I've PERSONALLY known or met, were usually not the best in nutrition and lacked proper macronutrient content.
Consequently I ALWAYS meet lifters who's body's don't change for the same reason.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Thank you so much for some scientific support for what us runners have sussed empirically for years. Enough protein, a bit of resistance and we're sorted.0
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it seems here on this site, when people say "cardio" some will assume that means extended duration type cardio that will result in loss of muscle. And when people talk about weight lifting and all the "GO HEAVY or you aint doing anything" seems to assume everyone wants to be a big muscled body builder.
the truth is, the majorty of people here do not need to worry about "too much cardio" and they do not need to immediately start "lifting heavy". there are many benefits to a moderate weight lifting regimen without taking the risk of injury.
If you are significantly over weight and your doctor has approved cardio, it is unlikely that you will do too much. you will most likely tire out first before you start losing muscle.
just keep moving and lifting something, even if its your own body weight.0 -
I've been searching the interwebs for a strength training routine that doesn't build you up, but I'm nervous about all the ones I've seen.
Google "Visual Impact for Women." I think it costs something like $50. I have no connection to it.0 -
Personally, I don't want to be a big muscled body builder, but I greatly prefer my higher muscle mass (and higher body fat) look to that of a lower muscle mass that many runners seem to have.
I'm the one in yellow. I prefer my arms and legs over the arms and legs of the two girls ahead of me. I'd love to be as fast as they are, because they cream my *kitten* in races. We're all in the same age group (35-39). They're not skinny fat. They have low body fat, but also a lower muscle mass.
And I'm not all that muscular, as you can see when relaxed in normal clothes. But I'm not anywhere near a "runner's build."
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And we've agreed on this before. I think what does make the difference is that many endurance athletes will use carbs instead of protein/carb packs for refueling thereby having an impact on lean muscle. But looking at that perspective of an endurance athlete, many aren't interested in any muscle gain at all since it affects their speed and time in their sport.The optimum quote being "if protein balance is insufficient". I did a 15 min Medline search one day just because of this stupid argument and came up with a dozen or so studies showing that endurance athletes (some up to 2 hrs a workout) who remained in nitrogen balance (i.e. protein intake was sufficient to meet needs) lost ZERO muscle mass even after doing hours of cardio only.
You have to keep this in perspective, however. There is a natural loss of muscle mass that occurs throughout life, probably starting in your mid-30s. There is also a loss of muscle mass that can occur when maintaining sizable calorie deficits.
So there are compelling reasons to include resistance exercise as part of a workout routine. But someone, esp a younger person, who is eating at maintenance is not going to continually lose muscle mass from doing a lot of cardio. Of all the dumb fitness ideas being foisted upon the public, this ranks in the top 5. Your body WILL adapt to what it is asked to do, so if all a person does is cardio, then they are going to have a body that is built to do a lot of cardio. You will have the muscle mass necessary to maintain that routine and your activties of daily living, but no more.
Again, keep in mind that I am NOT saying resistance exercise is unimportant. For overall health and long-term weight loss success, I think it is crucial. I am just trying to differentiate that from the Broscience idea that doing cardio will cause you to waste away to nothing.
I'll have to say that most people who concentrate only on cardio to lose that I've PERSONALLY known or met, were usually not the best in nutrition and lacked proper macronutrient content.
Consequently I ALWAYS meet lifters who's body's don't change for the same reason.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer/Group Fitness Instructor
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
God knows how Bill Rodgers and Frank Shorter were even able to stay upright.......0 -
Personally, I don't want to be a big muscled body builder, but I greatly prefer my higher muscle mass (and higher body fat) look to that of a lower muscle mass that many runners seem to have.
I'm the one in yellow. I prefer my arms and legs over the arms and legs of the two girls ahead of me. I'd love to be as fast as they are, because they cream my *kitten* in races. We're all in the same age group (35-39). They're not skinny fat. They have low body fat, but also a lower muscle mass.
And I'm not all that muscular, as you can see when relaxed in normal clothes. But I'm not anywhere near a "runner's build."
Your legs are fabulous!0 -
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I like the way this guy explains it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/does-cardio-burn-muscle/
The long and the short of it is the only way cardio will burn muscle is if you are over training....and over training would be running for hours and hours each day. So, I'm pretty sure that I don't need to worry about that. There are studies he refers to that demonstrate that fact.0 -
I noticed more body changes as I decreased cardio to focus on more strength training. I don't have flab around my belly and hips anymore like some women who weigh a lot less. I'm happier with my body than I ever thought I would be without reaching my goal weight yet and I think that is mostly because of strength training0
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Personally, I don't want to be a big muscled body builder, but I greatly prefer my higher muscle mass (and higher body fat) look to that of a lower muscle mass that many runners seem to have.
I'm the one in yellow. I prefer my arms and legs over the arms and legs of the two girls ahead of me. I'd love to be as fast as they are, because they cream my *kitten* in races. We're all in the same age group (35-39). They're not skinny fat. They have low body fat, but also a lower muscle mass.
And I'm not all that muscular, as you can see when relaxed in normal clothes. But I'm not anywhere near a "runner's build."
Great example0 -
I would like to see some scientific proof that you'll lose lean mass or become "skinny fat" by just doing cardio. Honestly, I haven't lifted weights since my early 20's. I've run, done yoga, done martial arts for years... I had a DEXA scan done in 2004 at 29 years of age that showed I have 120 lbs of lean mass and I had one done a few weeks ago that showed the same 120 lbs of lean mass. I haven't lifted a single weight in that time and my diet has been all over the board, two pregnancies... not to mention 8 years have passed.
So... why is it that people are told not to do cardio only? If you already have a decent muscle base, why not just burn off the fat? I don't understand. It seems pretty hard to lose muscle... there was a time I wanted to.
1. if you dont regularly stimulate your muscle tissue you will lose muscle (use it or lose it)
2. cardio only will burn ur muscle IF
a. you dont eat enough essential proteins and fats to preserve muscle
b. you do too much cardio to the point where the body is under too much stress and breaks muscle down in order to become more efficient (cortisol)
c. you are at an extremely low body fat % and basically there is only muscle to burn
3. martial arts and yoga contains some calisthenics which you can use to gain some muscle tissue but not a lot so you can have some of ur muscle tissue from that
.. cardio is not necessary to become lean and ripped that can be achieved through diet, so if that is ur goal to just have great aesthetics then cardio isnt needed* but it can accelerate fat loss. what is needed is a great diet and great muscle building program, because the metabolic advantages muscle provides far surpasses cardiovascular benefits concerning permanent weight loss. cardio is great for the heart and health of course, but not necessary to do to lose weight.0 -
Penn State did a study and found that 22% ( on average) of a persons total weight loss will be made up of lean muscle if they only do cardio and not lift weights during their weight loss. This why most people who just do cardio while losing weight are not happy with their results even after they reach or surpass their goal.0
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Personally, I don't want to be a big muscled body builder, but I greatly prefer my higher muscle mass (and higher body fat) look to that of a lower muscle mass that many runners seem to have.
I'm the one in yellow. I prefer my arms and legs over the arms and legs of the two girls ahead of me. I'd love to be as fast as they are, because they cream my *kitten* in races. We're all in the same age group (35-39). They're not skinny fat. They have low body fat, but also a lower muscle mass.
And I'm not all that muscular, as you can see when relaxed in normal clothes. But I'm not anywhere near a "runner's build."
Lorina. Nice pictures. And your doggie is cute!0 -
Penn State did a study and found that 22% ( on average) of a persons total weight loss will be made up of lean muscle if they only do cardio and not lift weights during their weight loss. This why most people who just do cardio while losing weight are not happy with their results even after they reach or surpass their goal.
I would wager a guess that this study involved a low calorie diet too.0 -
Thanks everyone who took the time to respond. I suppose I consider weight training to be specifically lifting... I also do HIIT classes with 8-10 lb dumbbels and medicine balls and such, so if that counts for muscle preservation that could be part of it, along with the martial arts. I also do Insanity videos at home, which have some jumping, pushups and the like.
Despite my pic, I don't run to lose weight specifically. I came here to learn how to eat to fuel my running. I love running and want to run farther and faster. I need to lose the fat to do that, but I have had trouble losing fat while training for endurance races because of the amount of fuel required to stay in performance shape.
Sooo... thanks again. If anyone has anything further to add to the conversation, I'd love to keep reading.0 -
bump. Really interesting, need to read more than once to digest.0
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What do you consider to be a "" low calorie diet"" and how much do you want to lose??Penn State did a study and found that 22% ( on average) of a persons total weight loss will be made up of lean muscle if they only do cardio and not lift weights during their weight loss. This why most people who just do cardio while losing weight are not happy with their results even after they reach or surpass their goal.
I would wager a guess that this study involved a low calorie diet too.0 -
Here's my N=1 example.
Went from 210lbs to 154lbs in 9 months. Calorie controlled diet with approximately 150g protein averaged for day. Exercise choices was jogging, boxing & some bodyweight resistance exercise.
I went from fat to skinny fat. I know I lost a LOT of LBM. (no dexa scans or anything but by the end I could only bench 110lbs 1rm, which I previously did sets of 10 of) If I had my choice again, I would have done it slower and included resistance training from the start.
So for me, cardio only (even though I did do some other resistance training) definitely resulted in a large loss of LBM. I really wish I had a pic of me when I was twig skinny fat but unsurprisingly, not many photos taken in that time period
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Without defining how much cardio, at what intensity, etc., (and also looking at the rest of the training/diet/individual variance) the debate is meaningless . Cardio can even benefits when you are trying to gain muscle.0
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What do you consider to be a "" low calorie diet"" and how much do you want to lose??Penn State did a study and found that 22% ( on average) of a persons total weight loss will be made up of lean muscle if they only do cardio and not lift weights during their weight loss. This why most people who just do cardio while losing weight are not happy with their results even after they reach or surpass their goal.
I would wager a guess that this study involved a low calorie diet too.
I consider a low calorie diet eating anything less than BMR.
If I lose 20 more lbs without sacrificing lean mass, I'll be 20%BF and thrilled.0 -
I lost all my bulk mass with running now stepping back up on the weights as partner says i look to skinny as before i was stocky i still cycle and train muay Thai but i agree would rather of lost the bulk slower and done a lot more weights0
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Interesting replies. My personal experiences tend to correspond with the post Chris made...but it's nice to hear all of the commentary.0
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Also keep in mind that many people on here are overweight or obese, and lived a relatively sedative lifestyle before starting this jounrey. You may be in shape and have decent muscle mass, but many here do not. Doing strictly cardio will not build muscle or tone them. We need to mix up lifting and metabolic workouts to become stronger and healthier. Also, the more muscle mass we create will burn more calories. I can achieve the same calorie burn with a 30 minute, high intensity metabolic workout or a 60 minute run. I like running to challenge myself, but I'd much rather knock out a good strength/resistance workout. It's all personal preference, and what would work best to get you to your personal goal.0
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Yes but adding muscle will not burn a significant amount of extra calories.0
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Yes but adding muscle will not burn a significant amount of extra calories.
ur kidding right? its the largest metabolic booster there is..0
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