You will lose your lean mass if you just do cardio
Replies
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Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/112246600 -
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..0 -
It feels like balance has been thrown out the window now with fitness - it always seems people are extreme-cardio, or extreme-weight lifting.
I prefer doing both.0 -
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..
Right, the studies that you are thinking of are outdated - what I posted is more recent.
I realize that 30-40 cal/lb of muscle is still the common belief (despite it being wrong), but it's better than what used to be spread (100 cal/lb).
In terms of fat loss, the benefits of weight training are more indirect - it's more to do with what happens during the weight training bout, and afterwards (glycogen depletion and the calories needed to synthesize the muscle and the training needed to maintain that muscle later on). But as far as raising metabolic rate, adding on muscle is negligible.0 -
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..
Right, the studies that you are thinking of are outdated - what I posted is more recent.
I realize that 30-40 cal/lb of muscle is still the common belief (despite it being wrong), but it's better than what used to be spread (100 cal/lb).
In terms of fat loss, the benefits of weight training are more indirect - it's more to do with what happens during the weight training bout, and afterwards (glycogen depletion and the calories needed to synthesize the muscle and the training needed to maintain that muscle later on). But as far as raising metabolic rate, adding on muscle is negligible.
You forgot hormonal response, which goes far beyond glycogen depletion and calories.0 -
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html
Linking this as Lyle is also backing the idea of muscle burning about 6cals/lb.0 -
Can you elaborate? What are you referring to specifically?
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..
Right, the studies that you are thinking of are outdated - what I posted is more recent.
I realize that 30-40 cal/lb of muscle is still the common belief (despite it being wrong), but it's better than what used to be spread (100 cal/lb).
In terms of fat loss, the benefits of weight training are more indirect - it's more to do with what happens during the weight training bout, and afterwards (glycogen depletion and the calories needed to synthesize the muscle and the training needed to maintain that muscle later on). But as far as raising metabolic rate, adding on muscle is negligible.
You forgot hormonal response, which goes far beyond glycogen depletion and calories.0 -
Well said Azdak!0
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Can you elaborate? What are you referring to specifically?
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..
Right, the studies that you are thinking of are outdated - what I posted is more recent.
I realize that 30-40 cal/lb of muscle is still the common belief (despite it being wrong), but it's better than what used to be spread (100 cal/lb).
In terms of fat loss, the benefits of weight training are more indirect - it's more to do with what happens during the weight training bout, and afterwards (glycogen depletion and the calories needed to synthesize the muscle and the training needed to maintain that muscle later on). But as far as raising metabolic rate, adding on muscle is negligible.
You forgot hormonal response, which goes far beyond glycogen depletion and calories.
I'm talking about growth hormone, adrenalin, etc. I'm on my phone at the moment so I'm not going to go into great detail, but you can look at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409
For the uninformed (very simplified), growth hormone...among other things...is basically a sign post for your body to burn fat (sort of like nitrous oxide in a car, only for fat burning), and maintain lean mass. What this means in even more simplified terms, is that strength training tells your body to release hormones that keeps your body burning fat specifically. Again, this goes way beyond simple calories in vs calories out, or the other things you mentioned.0 -
These type of forums always make me laugh. Cardio versus strength in some form or fashion. Peeps the bottom line is do you. If what you are doing works for you and you like the results then f what others may say or think. What I have noticed is that peeps tend to want to elevate what they do best over what someone else does best. Just do you and do it well. For my own dime I believe a mix of cardio and strength is good for cross training purposes and keeps your workouts fresh. A mix also avoids a fitness plateau. I guess its human nature to elevate what you do best.0
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Bump0
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Just to give you my advise. I started over a year ago working out and weight training. I was around 155lbs, after gaining nearly 70lbs with a pregnacy. It took me until my daughter was 2 to realize I didnt like the extra weight. So I did NOT chaneg my horrible eating habits yet within 6 months I had lost over 30 pounds. I did all this by weight lifting, not heavy but often; this was not cardio/running. I hated running, but we built in cardio by doing walking lunges and such. That put me around a good goal weight of 125. I was happy with this but then I soon realized that I wanted to be lean. I started eating the right way and within 2 weeks I have lost 6 more pounds and several inches. The right way of eating is watching your fat and carb intake. I have increased my protein intake as well. With this I am eating ALL the time, almost 5 meals a day. So when people say oh man your loosing to much weight I look at them and say "Do you see what I am eating? I eat all the time, just not junk and processed foods." So It can be done with the right calorie intake and right types of foods! But now I do both Cardio and Lifting, I do about 10 to 15 mins of Running before a 30 min workout (lifting) and 10 mins after. GOOD Luck and hapy lifting!0
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Whenever you lose weight you lose a combination of lean body mass and fat. So by adding resistance training you can minimize the loss of muscle.0
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Just to give you my advise. I started over a year ago working out and weight training. I was around 155lbs, after gaining nearly 70lbs with a pregnacy. It took me until my daughter was 2 to realize I didnt like the extra weight. So I did NOT chaneg my horrible eating habits yet within 6 months I had lost over 30 pounds. I did all this by weight lifting, not heavy but often; this was not cardio/running. I hated running, but we built in cardio by doing walking lunges and such. That put me around a good goal weight of 125. I was happy with this but then I soon realized that I wanted to be lean. I started eating the right way and within 2 weeks I have lost 6 more pounds and several inches. The right way of eating is watching your fat and carb intake. I have increased my protein intake as well. With this I am eating ALL the time, almost 5 meals a day. So when people say oh man your loosing to much weight I look at them and say "Do you see what I am eating? I eat all the time, just not junk and processed foods." So It can be done with the right calorie intake and right types of foods! But now I do both Cardio and Lifting, I do about 10 to 15 mins of Running before a 30 min workout (lifting) and 10 mins after. GOOD Luck and hapy lifting!
Smart girl
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Pretty much sums it up. You would have to do hours on end of cardio. However, if you take two bodies. One that just did cardio to lose weight and one that lifted weights and did cardio. They would look totally different.I like the way this guy explains it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/does-cardio-burn-muscle/
The long and the short of it is the only way cardio will burn muscle is if you are over training....and over training would be running for hours and hours each day. So, I'm pretty sure that I don't need to worry about that. There are studies he refers to that demonstrate that fact.0 -
Can you elaborate? What are you referring to specifically?
yeh i can tell you from putting on muscle first hand... its more than 6 calories a day. ive read studies that it is upwards of 50-100 more calories per lb of muscle a day than 1lb of fat does, but from my experience i can eat much more than i used to... and even if it was only 6 extra calories is there anything else that increases the metabolic rate more than muscle mass does?Adding on muscle does increase metabolic rate - just not to any significant degree. The study below shows that adding on one pound of muscle means you burn an additional 6 calories per day. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle (which is not something that will happen overnight) means you burn an additional 60 calories per day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11224660
if anything its anaerobic exercise, and that goes hand in hand with muscle mass..
Right, the studies that you are thinking of are outdated - what I posted is more recent.
I realize that 30-40 cal/lb of muscle is still the common belief (despite it being wrong), but it's better than what used to be spread (100 cal/lb).
In terms of fat loss, the benefits of weight training are more indirect - it's more to do with what happens during the weight training bout, and afterwards (glycogen depletion and the calories needed to synthesize the muscle and the training needed to maintain that muscle later on). But as far as raising metabolic rate, adding on muscle is negligible.
You forgot hormonal response, which goes far beyond glycogen depletion and calories.
I'm talking about growth hormone, adrenalin, etc. I'm on my phone at the moment so I'm not going to go into great detail, but you can look at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409
For the uninformed (very simplified), growth hormone...among other things...is basically a sign post for your body to burn fat (sort of like nitrous oxide in a car, only for fat burning), and maintain lean mass. What this means in even more simplified terms, is that strength training tells your body to release hormones that keeps your body burning fat specifically. Again, this goes way beyond simple calories in vs calories out, or the other things you mentioned.
I agree that acute GH release will only serve to help lipolysis.
Here's another one. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/162131740 -
However, if you take two bodies. One that just did cardio to lose weight and one that lifted weights and did cardio. They would look totally different.
Absolutely agree here, and I think this is an important consideration.
Additionally, I think that often times with the general population of people trying to go from obese to healthy (for lack of a better way to describe it), they don't have a realistic image of what they will look like when they drop 50lbs from just doing diet + cardio and not touching a weight.
I don't know if I'm explaining myself well here. I think people have a misconception that they'll drop X amount of weight (by eliminating some soda and bread and running a few miles) and look moderately muscular and lean when they get there. I think this is often times not how it ends up. Relating it to the above quote, if they'd pick up a few weights along the way, things would look much, much better in the end picture. That goes for both genders.0 -
I think CalJur is right. I think you have to do you.
I, for instance, weight 291lbs right now. I am carrying around a great deal of weight and lifting it as I do cardio is a bit of weight lifting. I do a summit hike that is super hard each day, up to swimming a mile easily, do core with arm weights and this week I will be adding a short weight circuit. But when a person is as obese as I am, they really need the cardio to burn the fat. I monitor my heart rate, keep it in the burn zone. My resting heart rate is : 67 but used to be 55. A person's past physical activity for years before they became obese and diet choices all affect how healthy their heart is , where they are with their lean muscle mass and how hard they can push themselves. You have to do you.0 -
I had to dig this example from another post I made on "skinny fat" but here is one example of what can happen if you only do cardio:
Here's an ABC news version that specifically shows a woman who lost 50lbs running and found herself skinny-fat, and had to incorporate resistance training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Qghel5mmM&feature=fvwrel
I personally love running, but also believe in lifting heavy, as well as hill running, cross training, HIIT, etc. I believe in doing it all!0 -
Lot of interesting answers here... I post to find it easier or as they say, bump.0
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Does anyone have a link to the original Penn State study that's been mentioned? Because this site seems to claim the opposite of what people are saying.STUDY #1: In this study, conducted at Penn State University, a group of women took part in a 12-week program of diet and exercise [2]. The women were assigned to one of four groups:
• The first group served as a control group, and did nothing.
• Group two followed a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet.
• Group three combined the same diet with regular aerobic exercise.
• The fourth group also followed the same diet, but added aerobic and resistance exercise (weight training).
As you might imagine, all three groups lost weight.
• The diet-only group lost 13.6 pounds.
• The diet plus aerobic exercise group lost 15 pounds.
• The women combining diet with resistance and aerobic exercise lost 15.4 pounds.
However, the loss of fat was greatest in the women who combined a low-calorie diet with aerobic exercise.
In fact, the women who trained with weights actually lost 3.7 pounds of muscle.
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/combo.htm0 -
Bumping for when I have more time to read later- I've just been doing cardio and have gotten a skinnyfat look that I dislike, but I'm really aprehensive/confused about how to get started doing strength training/weights.0
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Does anyone have a link to the original Penn State study that's been mentioned? Because this site seems to claim the opposite of what people are saying.STUDY #1: In this study, conducted at Penn State University, a group of women took part in a 12-week program of diet and exercise [2]. The women were assigned to one of four groups:
• The first group served as a control group, and did nothing.
• Group two followed a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet.
• Group three combined the same diet with regular aerobic exercise.
• The fourth group also followed the same diet, but added aerobic and resistance exercise (weight training).
As you might imagine, all three groups lost weight.
• The diet-only group lost 13.6 pounds.
• The diet plus aerobic exercise group lost 15 pounds.
• The women combining diet with resistance and aerobic exercise lost 15.4 pounds.
However, the loss of fat was greatest in the women who combined a low-calorie diet with aerobic exercise.
In fact, the women who trained with weights actually lost 3.7 pounds of muscle.
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/combo.htm
and this is why i hate when people quote any study as being absolute gospel for their opinions. studies are only as reliable as the participants chosen. anyone can find a study that will prove their point while of course they neglect the studies that contradict them. these studies (and the people who believe them wholeheartedly) also dont take into account someone's starting body composition and just want to believe that everyone will have the same results as the 100 people involved in a study
individuals should just do whatever form of exercise they like and that works for them and gives them the results they want.0 -
I find the idea that exercise falls dichotomously into "cardio" and "heavy-lifting" pretty useless, most people aren't either a body-builder or a marathon runner.0
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The only way cardio would make you lose lean mass is when you overdo it. If you look at any online articles or fitness magazines, they will tell you that cardio has its place but OVERDOING it will lead to loss of LBM as well. Also as with every fitness plan, diet is the main key. Many skinny-fat people either eat crap or have insufficient protein intake that is necessary to feed their muscles.
Like others have said, yoga, pilates & martial arts (by the way I practice Aikido & was a high yellow belter in Taekwondo before) have anaerobic movements. Also the warm-up that we do in martial arts involves some resistance training. One of my favorite warm-up is judo push-ups which targets multiple muscles. Also we do the hanging leg lifts as warm-up which targets the abs.
Cardio plays an important role in our overall health & as well as fat loss. The only difference is the way we are doing it.0 -
Does anyone have a link to the original Penn State study that's been mentioned? Because this site seems to claim the opposite of what people are saying.STUDY #1: In this study, conducted at Penn State University, a group of women took part in a 12-week program of diet and exercise [2]. The women were assigned to one of four groups:
• The first group served as a control group, and did nothing.
• Group two followed a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet.
• Group three combined the same diet with regular aerobic exercise.
• The fourth group also followed the same diet, but added aerobic and resistance exercise (weight training).
As you might imagine, all three groups lost weight.
• The diet-only group lost 13.6 pounds.
• The diet plus aerobic exercise group lost 15 pounds.
• The women combining diet with resistance and aerobic exercise lost 15.4 pounds.
However, the loss of fat was greatest in the women who combined a low-calorie diet with aerobic exercise.
In fact, the women who trained with weights actually lost 3.7 pounds of muscle.
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/combo.htm
and this is why i hate when people quote any study as being absolute gospel for their opinions. studies are only as reliable as the participants chosen. anyone can find a study that will prove their point while of course they neglect the studies that contradict them. these studies (and the people who believe them wholeheartedly) also dont take into account someone's starting body composition and just want to believe that everyone will have the same results as the 100 people involved in a study
individuals should just do whatever form of exercise they like and that works for them and gives them the results they want.
And what was the protein intake, if I may ask?0 -
The only way cardio would make you lose lean mass is when you overdo it. If you look at any online articles or fitness magazines, they will tell you that cardio has its place but OVERDOING it will lead to loss of LBM as well. Also as with every fitness plan, diet is the main key. Many skinny-fat people either eat crap or have insufficient protein intake that is necessary to feed their muscles.
Like others have said, yoga, pilates & martial arts (by the way I practice Aikido & was a high yellow belter in Taekwondo before) have anaerobic movements. Also the warm-up that we do in martial arts involves some resistance training. One of my favorite warm-up is judo push-ups which targets multiple muscles. Also we do the hanging leg lifts as warm-up which targets the abs.
Cardio plays an important role in our overall health & as well as fat loss. The only difference is the way we are doing it.
But how do you define Overdoing it? Sort of the classic definition of overdoing cardio is causing muscle cannibalism, so it's a bit of circular logic0 -
The only way cardio would make you lose lean mass is when you overdo it. If you look at any online articles or fitness magazines, they will tell you that cardio has its place but OVERDOING it will lead to loss of LBM as well. Also as with every fitness plan, diet is the main key. Many skinny-fat people either eat crap or have insufficient protein intake that is necessary to feed their muscles.
Like others have said, yoga, pilates & martial arts (by the way I practice Aikido & was a high yellow belter in Taekwondo before) have anaerobic movements. Also the warm-up that we do in martial arts involves some resistance training. One of my favorite warm-up is judo push-ups which targets multiple muscles. Also we do the hanging leg lifts as warm-up which targets the abs.
Cardio plays an important role in our overall health & as well as fat loss. The only difference is the way we are doing it.
But how do you define Overdoing it? Sort of the classic definition of overdoing cardio is causing muscle cannibalism, so it's a bit of circular logic
That will depend on your program but generally speaking over an hour of cardio is too much unless you are training for an endurance sport. Endurance athletes eat more calories to support their training but many skinny-fat ones do not eat enough protein to support their muscles.0 -
The only way cardio would make you lose lean mass is when you overdo it. If you look at any online articles or fitness magazines, they will tell you that cardio has its place but OVERDOING it will lead to loss of LBM as well. Also as with every fitness plan, diet is the main key. Many skinny-fat people either eat crap or have insufficient protein intake that is necessary to feed their muscles.
Like others have said, yoga, pilates & martial arts (by the way I practice Aikido & was a high yellow belter in Taekwondo before) have anaerobic movements. Also the warm-up that we do in martial arts involves some resistance training. One of my favorite warm-up is judo push-ups which targets multiple muscles. Also we do the hanging leg lifts as warm-up which targets the abs.
Cardio plays an important role in our overall health & as well as fat loss. The only difference is the way we are doing it.
But how do you define Overdoing it? Sort of the classic definition of overdoing cardio is causing muscle cannibalism, so it's a bit of circular logic
That will depend on your program but generally speaking over an hour of cardio is too much unless you are training for an endurance sport. Endurance athletes eat more calories to support their training but many skinny-fat ones do not eat enough protein to support their muscles.
I agree with that. I run for more than an hour once or twice a week, but I'm in the habit of refueling with a protein shake with some fruit right after running. I don't want to gloss over the importance of resistance training, but I think that point has already been covered pretty well.
To me it seems obvious- whether you're weightlifting or distance running, you're causing micro tears to the muscle tissue. Amino acids are used for muscle repair. Protein is amino acids. You must consume enough protein.
BTW, I wasn't disagreeing with you about overtraining, just prompting you to clarify. 0 -
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