Herbal Magic?

hailzp

If it ain't weed it ain't magic.

gbg49229

So they treat testicular cancer with s drug, what do they do once it is gone? do they do anything to prevent it from coming back? NO! I know people that have thyroid trouble, they go on a pill for the rest of there life, most are ok with this, some educate and realize that those darn "herbal" meds that the fda didnt approve correct the problem and then you dont need any meds! I also know people that have type 2 diabetes, they thought they were stuck on insulin and all the crap the fda approved, then, once again, those darn unapproved "herbal" things got in the way and now, they are free of insulin and everything!

Nice story, is it filed in the anecdotes =/= data section of the clinical trials library?

That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. One or two isolated "cures" are observed which may or may not have anything to do with the products used and then they are touted as "evidence". It may interest you to know that millions of diabetics have gone on to live very normal lives thanks to insulin whereas many would have simply died prematurely. How many millions of people died annually from pneumonia before the advent of antibiotics? How many hypertensive people would have died prematurely from heart attack or stroke were it not for effective medications?

There's a difference between treatment and prevention. You ask about preventing testicular cancer from coming back, considering the fact that no one knows exactly why many cancers occur (risk factors have been identified but the actual genetic process that turns a healthy cell into a cancerous one will make some researcher rich and famous when it's definitively identified) .

Surprise! There's no global conspiracy on the part of drug companies to make us sick and keep us sick.

great argument! and you help prove my point so for that I thank you! millions just keep taking insulin with out EVER, I will say it again so that you understand real clear, with out EVER getting off of it, they just keep taking it, meanwhile there health continues to decline because there body is not doing the things it should! Suprise, there is a conspiracy (atleast in the U.S.A.). they spend apx 20 BILLION dollars a year to "find" a cure for cancer, yet in many other country's they cure cancer with those darn ol "herbs" you dislike so much, and do it very cheap compared to chemo and radiation! And you obviously do not know much about cancer, because they know a lot of causes of cancer, toxins in the body, and a breach of the immune system! want to know how Americans get so many toxins in there body? our food, does a food company put just anything in there they want? nope, has to be approved by the FDA! now, as far as conspiracy, the fda approves things like....meat glue, tuna scrape, pink slime, ammonia in your food, before you spout off, google those things, then look on the back of say a bottle of ranch, what is maltodetrin? disodium phosphate? monosodium glumate? disodium inosinate? disodium guanylate? sorbic acid? yum, sorbic acid sounds pretty good for me! I dont know why any one would EVER question the FDA when they approve those kind of yummy ingredients for us to eat, in fact, now that I have read your comments, and I watched all the videos on the things in our food I may have to change my mind and think the fda has my best interest in mind............I am thinking...................wait, nah I still think they are a business and dont give a **** about people!

Aperture_Science

Huge drug companies- which are not in business of making people well, but merely keeping them sick, because if they actually cured their clients, where is their business?

You actually believe this????

I do!....you dont? name something they have cured?

Beta blockers are keeping millions of people alive, Anesthetics seem to do a pretty good job, testicular cancer is now treatable with drug therapy rather than castration. I only mention these because I was involved in the registration of these types of drugs with the world wisde health authorities and I can assure you that for these submissions there was no payment to the FDA or even a "cosy" relationship. The FDA were tough, hard, and often very, very demanding of me and my colleagues. I've also had the dubious pleasure of an FDA inspection at the company I worked. It was frightening, their level of professionalism was only surpassed by their dogged refusal to accept glib answers: They dug, and dug until they could go no further or had exposed a problem.

So they treat testicular cancer with s drug, what do they do once it is gone? do they do anything to prevent it from coming back? NO! I know people that have thyroid trouble, they go on a pill for the rest of there life, most are ok with this, some educate and realize that those darn "herbal" meds that the fda didnt approve correct the problem and then you dont need any meds! I also know people that have type 2 diabetes, they thought they were stuck on insulin and all the crap the fda approved, then, once again, those darn unapproved "herbal" things got in the way and now, they are free of insulin and everything!

I knew someone once who ate an orange... he got knocked over by a bus the following day therefore eating oranges is bad for you. Same argument.

If any health care company want to register a herbal treatment as a therapy that is possible. Organise some clinical trials, prove a decent efficacy to side effect effect profile and prove that you can control the dosage and hey... you've got yourself a fully registered therapeutic you can see in the US!

Or, alternatively, they can claim it's "just a food stuff" and not do the safety/efficacy work but then they should STFU about how it cures everything from warts to brain tumors because until they have done the studies.... they have proved NOTHING.

they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont. Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing, the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China

they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont.

Some herbal remedies have been tested and showed efficacy and safety. Some have been tested and failed to show efficacy or are unsafe, and others have never been tested. But your original statement was about the dubious business practices of drug companies, who you accuse (in cahoots with the FDA), of keeping people sick and/or reliant on their products for profit. But now you seem to be claiming that governments should pay herbal companies to attempt to register products through the FDA in order for them to be sold as a registered medicine? If you think the FDA are such a bunch of crooks why are you bothered about using tax payers money to jump through the regulatory hoop?

Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing,

(Ignoring the fact that you just called me a clown). When a herbal product has had no study or meta study performed on it: nothing has been proved. When it has had a studies which do prove something that is a different matter. You asked for someone to provide examples of modem medicines that have cured disease. I did that. I've never said that all herbal remedies are ineffective, but you seem to be saying all ARE effective? or are you saying something else?

the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China

The FDA is an American organisation. Chinese data from properly conducted clinical studies would only be of interest to the FDA if they were presented this as part of a US application. But I suspect you are talking about years of accumulated anecdotal evidence in this China statement?

Dauntlessness

Put the money toward a personal trainer. I am sure you will get longer better faster results

Pookylou

there is a conspiracy (atleast in the U.S.A.). they spend apx 20 BILLION dollars a year to "find" a cure for cancer, yet in many other country's they cure cancer with those darn ol "herbs" you dislike so much, and do it very cheap compared to chemo and radiation! !

What are these magic cancer curing herbs? My gran has cancer, sure hope you can help her out.




Twaddle.

gbg49229

Huge drug companies- which are not in business of making people well, but merely keeping them sick, because if they actually cured their clients, where is their business?

You actually believe this????

I do!....you dont? name something they have cured?

Beta blockers are keeping millions of people alive, Anesthetics seem to do a pretty good job, testicular cancer is now treatable with drug therapy rather than castration. I only mention these because I was involved in the registration of these types of drugs with the world wisde health authorities and I can assure you that for these submissions there was no payment to the FDA or even a "cosy" relationship. The FDA were tough, hard, and often very, very demanding of me and my colleagues. I've also had the dubious pleasure of an FDA inspection at the company I worked. It was frightening, their level of professionalism was only surpassed by their dogged refusal to accept glib answers: They dug, and dug until they could go no further or had exposed a problem.

So they treat testicular cancer with s drug, what do they do once it is gone? do they do anything to prevent it from coming back? NO! I know people that have thyroid trouble, they go on a pill for the rest of there life, most are ok with this, some educate and realize that those darn "herbal" meds that the fda didnt approve correct the problem and then you dont need any meds! I also know people that have type 2 diabetes, they thought they were stuck on insulin and all the crap the fda approved, then, once again, those darn unapproved "herbal" things got in the way and now, they are free of insulin and everything!

I knew someone once who ate an orange... he got knocked over by a bus the following day therefore eating oranges is bad for you. Same argument.

If any health care company want to register a herbal treatment as a therapy that is possible. Organise some clinical trials, prove a decent efficacy to side effect effect profile and prove that you can control the dosage and hey... you've got yourself a fully registered therapeutic you can see in the US!

Or, alternatively, they can claim it's "just a food stuff" and not do the safety/efficacy work but then they should STFU about how it cures everything from warts to brain tumors because until they have done the studies.... they have proved NOTHING.

they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont. Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing, the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China

they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont.

Some herbal remedies have been tested and showed efficacy and safety. Some have been tested and failed to show efficacy or are unsafe, and others have never been tested. But your original statement was about the dubious business practices of drug companies, who you accuse (in cahoots with the FDA), of keeping people sick and/or reliant on their products for profit. But now you seem to be claiming that governments should pay herbal companies to attempt to register products through the FDA in order for them to be sold as a registered medicine? If you think the FDA are such a bunch of crooks why are you bothered about using tax payers money to jump through the regulatory hoop?

Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing,

(Ignoring the fact that you just called me a clown). When a herbal product has had no study or meta study performed on it: nothing has been proved. When it has had a studies which do prove something that is a different matter. You asked for someone to provide examples of modem medicines that have cured disease. I did that. I've never said that all herbal remedies are ineffective, but you seem to be saying all ARE effective? or are you saying something else?

the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China

The FDA is an American organisation. Chinese data from properly conducted clinical studies would only be of interest to the FDA if they were presented this as part of a US application. But I suspect you are talking about years of accumulated anecdotal evidence in this China statement?

want proof? In America 1 out of 2 men get cancer, 1 out of 3 women get cancer. more then any other country. France, 1 out of 70 people get cancer, in many other parts of the world (you know, when they eat all natural and use those darn ol "herbs") it is rare to even hear of cancer! Man, im glad I have today off,I love arguing common sense

gbg49229

there is a conspiracy (atleast in the U.S.A.). they spend apx 20 BILLION dollars a year to "find" a cure for cancer, yet in many other country's they cure cancer with those darn ol "herbs" you dislike so much, and do it very cheap compared to chemo and radiation! !

What are these magic cancer curing herbs? My gran has cancer, sure hope you can help her out.




Twaddle.

have granny see a hollistic doctor!

gbg49229

Beta blockers are keeping millions of people alive, Anesthetics seem to do a pretty good job, testicular cancer is now treatable with drug therapy rather than castration. I only mention these because I was involved in the registration of these types of drugs with the world wisde health authorities and I can assure you that for these submissions there was no payment to the FDA or even a "cosy" relationship. The FDA were tough, hard, and often very, very demanding of me and my colleagues. I've also had the dubious pleasure of an FDA inspection at the company I worked. It was frightening, their level of professionalism was only surpassed by their dogged refusal to accept glib answers: They dug, and dug until they could go no further or had exposed a problem.
[/quote]
So they treat testicular cancer with s drug, what do they do once it is gone? do they do anything to prevent it from coming back? NO! I know people that have thyroid trouble, they go on a pill for the rest of there life, most are ok with this, some educate and realize that those darn "herbal" meds that the fda didnt approve correct the problem and then you dont need any meds! I also know people that have type 2 diabetes, they thought they were stuck on insulin and all the crap the fda approved, then, once again, those darn unapproved "herbal" things got in the way and now, they are free of insulin and everything!
[/quote]

I knew someone once who ate an orange... he got knocked over by a bus the following day therefore eating oranges is bad for you. Same argument.
not really, the friend should of watched out for busses and ate the orange

If any health care company want to register a herbal treatment as a therapy that is possible. Organise some clinical trials, prove a decent efficacy to side effect effect profile and prove that you can control the dosage and hey... you've got yourself a fully registered therapeutic you can see in the US!
makes no sense, then you would be a fda doctor, fda wouldnt make money unless they alter the "herbal" meds, there fore we would have same conversation

Or, alternatively, they can claim it's "just a food stuff" and not do the safety/efficacy work but then they should STFU about how it cures everything from warts to brain tumors because until they have done the studies.... they have proved NOTHING.
[/quote]
they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont. Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing, the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China
[/quote]
they wont gladly test it, they hate it and do everything they can not to test it, and shut it down. including trying to ban fruit stands on the side of the road because they are not fda approved

they will gladly test it, all the govt has to do is give them just a little funding, but they wont.

Some herbal remedies have been tested and showed efficacy and safety. Some have been tested and failed to show efficacy or are unsafe, and others have never been tested. But your original statement was about the dubious business practices of drug companies, who you accuse (in cahoots with the FDA), of keeping people sick and/or reliant on their products for profit. But now you seem to be claiming that governments should pay herbal companies to attempt to register products through the FDA in order for them to be sold as a registered medicine? If you think the FDA are such a bunch of crooks why are you bothered about using tax payers money to jump through the regulatory hoop?
again, look at our food, you want to trust them, go ahead! I would rather look at the situation and the facts, but to each there own

Its easy for clowns to say they have proved nothing,

(Ignoring the fact that you just called me a clown). When a herbal product has had no study or meta study performed on it: nothing has been proved. When it has had a studies which do prove something that is a different matter. You asked for someone to provide examples of modem medicines that have cured disease. I did that. I've never said that all herbal remedies are ineffective, but you seem to be saying all ARE effective? or are you saying something else?
yes, I say herbal is effective, very effective, and your examples were bandaids on a severed arm, not cures, I thought it was a joke

the fda wont allow them to prove anything. And to correct you, they have proved in other parts of the world that it works, like China

The FDA is an American organisation. Chinese data from properly conducted clinical studies would only be of interest to the FDA if they were presented this as part of a US application. But I suspect you are talking about years of accumulated anecdotal evidence in this China statement?
[/quote]
want proof? In America 1 out of 2 men get cancer, 1 out of 3 women get cancer. more then any other country. France, 1 out of 70 people get cancer, in many other parts of the world (you know, when they eat all natural and use those darn ol "herbs") it is rare to even hear of cancer! Man, im glad I have today off,I love arguing common sense
[/quote]

Aperture_Science

You know what gbg49229 I can't be bothered with this conversation anymore. Chalk it up as a victory if you want to. Well done.

Best wishes.

gbg49229

You know what gbg49229 I can't be bothered with this conversation anymore. Chalk it up as a victory if you want to. Well done.

Best wishes.

thanks, have a great day

myjourney2

One of my co workers did Herbal Life. She didnt lose much weight but she did lighten her wallet quite a bit. She figured out it cost her almost $3000.00 to lose her 20 lbs. When she finally gave up on the plan she gained it all back plus some.

nitepagan

Cinnamon is reported to boost sugar metabolism and help in weight loss. Fennel is an aid in digestion. Neither will give you weight loss unless you are actively trying to loss weight, but with a good diet program can enhance your results.

wolfi622

EVERY Human male will eventually get prostate cancer if he lives long enough. EVERY human female will get ovarian or breast cancer if she lives long enough. It is a function of the human condition, not the FDA and Smith-Kline.

Eureka175

I did herbal magic for 6 months. I did lose weight however its extremly pricey. They make all there money when you buy the supplements. The location I attended actually wouldn't work with you unless you used supplements because otherwise you weren't truely doing the program. The calorie count was 900 a day. When i brought this up with the manager she got annoyed with me, even though i was having problems being light headed through the whole program.
The cost was about $300 plus a month. The other frustrating part was there employees have no training. They will tell you they do however I asked the girls in my location. None of them had any back round in nutrition and followed the same book I followed.
I ended up discontinuing the program and was really disappointed in everything they promised. I would never do the program again and would highly recommend another alternative.

I second this.
I did herbal magic through recomendation of a friend. She was very successful with it at the time (she has gained most if not all of it back after)
It was incredibly expensive. You have to weigh in every other day or so. The average calorie count for me was 1100-1200 per day. The "herbal" vitamins made me feel sick and I ended up at the emergency room with numbness in my face and left arm/side. I then decided to quit the program, they did not refund the money (or balance remaining)
The employees had little to no training. Could not explain the vitamins. Plus I had one of them tell me that perhaps I wasnt losing weight (that weigh in) cause I had eaten a banana the previous day and a banana was a heavy fruit ....wtf?
All in all I can honestly say you can do better on your own, If you really need support, or a group perhaps look into WW or something similar. Although they may push their products alot you dont have to buy them or be on them to participate.

I did it for awhile, got stuck after 20 lbs loss. I did have a good experience though, as it was a little town centre, the two women working there were very knowledgeable and willing to work with me - I was able to do the program without supplements for awhile as well - the centre then became incorporated - new staff - had to follow the "rules" - same supplements for all, etc. - new supplements pretty much all contain caffeine which I reacted to... so I quit. Pricy as well.
As for the food portion - depending on which program they put you on:
QLP 1 - 1200 calories
2 fruit; 2 protein (@4-5oz serving each); 1 dairy; 2 starch; 3 vegetables; 1 "extra: (worth 100 cal)

QLP2 - 1500 calories
3 fruit, 3 protein, 1 dairy, 2 starch, 4 vegetables, 1 extra

Just to give you an idea...

You use your own food - not pre-packaged

BOLO4Hagtha

Just buy Healthy Choice or Lean Cuisine and use MFP. Same concept, a million times cheaper.

Would not recommend you eating those. They are full of preservatives and not worth the calories for the amount they give you. You can get twice as much food for the sample calories if you eat fresh produce and clean foods.

myfitnessnmhoy

Just buy Healthy Choice or Lean Cuisine and use MFP. Same concept, a million times cheaper.

Would not recommend you eating those. They are full of preservatives and not worth the calories for the amount they give you. You can get twice as much food for the sample calories if you eat fresh produce and clean foods.

Agreed. However, for a prepared ready-to-eat meal, they are better choices than many. That's not to say they are particularly healthy, though. Compared to home-prepared fresh food, they're junk. Compared to Swanson's Frozen or McDonalds, they're health food.

manderann

Oh... wrong kind of "herbal" magic. :laugh:

Katiemarie4488

Who has tried it,
and what was your experiance with it like?

If you are willing to waste money, just send me money to my paypal account


Seriously, you really don t need this

What is a waste. It seems quite sound:

"The Herbal Magic program offers a combination of private one-on-one personal coaching, real food bought at your grocery store, and natural health products.[6][8] It has weight loss programs designed for women, men, diabetics (type I and II), youth, women who are planning to conceive, breastfeeding mothers, and those with diagnosed heart conditions. The programs are designed to help clients lose weight at an average rate of two pounds per week. There are three key phases to the program including:

Phase 1: Weight Loss. During this phase, a personal health coach reviews the client’s medical history and food journal as well as recommends a meal plan with natural health products to optimize healthy weight loss. Once the goal weight is reached, the client enters Phase 2.

Phase 2: Stabilization. In this phase, the client and personal health coach work together to increase the amount of food intake while maintaining the client’s goal weight.

Phase 3: Maintenance. The length of the maintenance phase varies for clients based on the amount of weight lost during the weight loss phase. This is the phase intended to ensure the weight is kept off for good.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbal_Magic

Overpriced prepackaged meal service. Same principles apply. Calorie deficit. You can do do all that for free here on mfp.

/\ Yes, that.

MonicaT1972

Why waste your money. You have all you need here at your fingertips for FREE. Bank the money you would spend on the program for all the new clothes you will need!

Bellabang

I think your safest bet is good old fashioned diet and exercise. There is no "magic" to being healthy. You have to put in the work and effort and realize that it's a lifestyle change. You can log your own food on here and just try to learn as much as you can about getting healthy. It works for me and tons of other people. I'd hate for you to get ripped off because someone promises you something they can't deliver on. Diet and exercise will produce the results you want in a healthy way, I promise. It may take time, but it's fool-proof and free. Good luck!!