Trick and Treat - how healthy eating is making us ill & fat

Reinventing_Me

He didn't say that. You are confusing two different people.

I guess I don't know who is quoting who any more. My mistake. Who's on first? :ohwell:

AbbsyBabbsy

Our ancestors expended a tremendous amount of energy to obtain every single calorie they ate. I think that probably helped keep our cavebretheren thin, along with sporadic food supply. Driving to the market and buying a fatty steak butchered from a domesticated farm animal isn't exactly the same thing. Wild game tends to be leaner meat.

Or maybe I'm just trying to justify how much I hate fatty meat.

graelwyn

Life is about more than checking every morsel of food that enters my mouth has nutritional value, imo. By the time one had spent everyday checking each thing they ate had nutritional value, and that they were burning such and such number of calories a day, their focus entirely on perfecting their bodies, there wouldn't be much left of their lives to simply enjoy, and for me personally, and quite a few other human beings, part of life's enjoyment is having the occasional non nutritionally dense food item. But to each their own, I suppose. I am not overweight, I am far from it. I am relatively healthy, and I would rather go through my life having some of the foods I enjoy which are not so nutrient dense, alongside the many foods I eat that are nutritionally dense, than being anal about everything that goes in my mouth. And if that means I live a few years less, then so be it.

That's not what I'm saying to do. The original poster replied to one of my statements saying that the whole grain carbs I mentioned, from what she understood, "are still not very high in Vitamins, Minerals and Fiber. There is much more in veg, fruit and protein". I'm simply saying that is an incorrect assumption and that, perhaps, she should take a little bit of time to look up the difference between the whole grain carbs and the refined, particularly because she (or the book she quoted) seemed to group them all together. She also mentioned how she has no energy after eating carbs, which is why I brought up the whole grain in the first place. I don't check out every morsel of food I eat, but I do have a general knowledge of most things (good and bad). But at a time when I'm trying to figure out my body and why it reacts to certain foods the way it does (inflammation, etc.) and for those things that might be new to me I will take some time to look it up. A lot of times I was pleasantly surprised and determined I would work things into or out of my diet. Knowing helps me make a more informed decision. If I get tired and hungry an hour after I eat a bagel, I'm going to figure out what I can eat while still keeping my calories in check and getting the most I can out of my meal.

I guess I should have quoted, I was responding to the individual who said moderation is an excuse to eat things of little or no nutritional value.

Reinventing_Me

@graelwyn - Oh! Gotcha! I've really lost track of who said what. I guess the bottom line is we all have to do what we feel works for us as individuals. :drinker:

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I was going to stay out of this thread...........

Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.

Look up the term "orthorexia nervosa" and think about how it might apply to you.

That is some made up BS that is utter nonsense.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I was going to stay out of this thread...........

Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.

Look up the term "orthorexia nervosa" and think about how it might apply to you.

Orthorexia nervosa (also known as orthorexia) is a non-medically recognized term[a] first used by Steven Bratman to characterize people who develop an obsession with avoiding foods perceived to be unhealthy.

It doesn't apply to me at all as I don't avoid foods perceived to be unhealthy. I incorporate healthier, cleaner foods into my diet, but if I want some chips on occasion I will eat them. You're the one who said moderation is an excuse to eat things with little or no nutritional value, which to me implies that one shouldn't, which is more in line with the non-medically recognized term orthorexia nervosa.

How does it apply to you?

I said it and I have had several Dr's say the same thing. It is an excuse to eat crap food.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I find it very interesting that most of the deaths back then were from accidents, old age or infections. Today we have cancer and heart disease. I don't believe that everything he says is suited to me, but I believe that our diet has caused a deficiency in many important elements and the processed food has caused us to get ill.

People didn't live long enough to have diseases like cancer and cvd. No one really died of old age back then (assuming you're referring to the time when diets were mainly composed of meat and berries)

There is evidence found that says that many, many of our ancestors lived a very long time. The high child mortality (child birth) and injuries brings the average lifespan down.

meshashesha2012

Our ancestors expended a tremendous amount of energy to obtain every single calorie they ate. I think that probably helped keep our cavebretheren thin, along with sporadic food supply. Driving to the market and buying a fatty steak butchered from a domesticated farm animal isn't exactly the same thing. Wild game tends to be leaner meat.

thank you! this is something that every primal/paleo eater i know seems to overlook.

honestly i cant wait to see what the long term effects of this diet will be.

RonSwanson66

I was going to stay out of this thread...........

Moderation is nothing but an excuse to continue to eat things that have little or no nutritional value.

Look up the term "orthorexia nervosa" and think about how it might apply to you.

That is some made up BS that is utter nonsense.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Orthorexia&btnG=&as_sdt=1,38&as_sdtp=

tobnrn

Our ancestors expended a tremendous amount of energy to obtain every single calorie they ate. I think that probably helped keep our cavebretheren thin, along with sporadic food supply. Driving to the market and buying a fatty steak butchered from a domesticated farm animal isn't exactly the same thing. Wild game tends to be leaner meat.

thank you! this is something that every primal/paleo eater i know seems to overlook.

Agreed

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Our ancestors expended a tremendous amount of energy to obtain every single calorie they ate. I think that probably helped keep our cavebretheren thin, along with sporadic food supply. Driving to the market and buying a fatty steak butchered from a domesticated farm animal isn't exactly the same thing. Wild game tends to be leaner meat.

thank you! this is something that every primal/paleo eater i know seems to overlook.

honestly i cant wait to see what the long term effects of this diet will be.

Many of us hunt, scavenge and gather wild things to eat. Grow our own food, make our own soap, shampoo, deodorant, cleaning supplies, etc.

Also, meet with local farmers for clean and lean meats.

It is a clean lifestyle in so many ways.

Better health and no longer having ailments is the long term effects I am seeing. Dr's are pleased and encourage me to continue on.

seamonkey789

"Animals that eat a natural diet don't have smelly droppings."

Actually, I'm a pet food rep and this is not true. All dogs and cats are different. Some dogs, on natural food, depending on what is in it, will clear a room with stinky poop and gas. The company I work for is all natural and our competitor is all natural. I have people come up to me in the store wanting to switch off our competitor because their dog is reeking up their house.

Also, I have an allergy dog and both of my dogs were on a diet that was basically all meat, vegetables, and 1 carbohydrate source.

My little dog would get in bed with me and fart all night

Glucocorticoid

"Animals that eat a natural diet don't have smelly droppings."

Actually, I'm a pet food rep and this is not true.

The rest of it is not true either (because it's written by a moron).

PaleoPath4Lyfe

"Animals that eat a natural diet don't have smelly droppings."

Actually, I'm a pet food rep and this is not true. All dogs and cats are different. Some dogs, on natural food, depending on what is in it, will clear a room with stinky poop and gas. The company I work for is all natural and our competitor is all natural. I have people come up to me in the store wanting to switch off our competitor because their dog is reeking up their house.

Also, I have an allergy dog and both of my dogs were on a diet that was basically all meat, vegetables, and 1 carbohydrate source.

My little dog would get in bed with me and fart all night

I have 1 dog that has allergies also. My dogs eat mostly BARF diet and occasionally dry kibble, EVO. They have no smelly droppings and never fart anymore.

Dogs don't need carbs just like humans don't and fare better without them.

seamonkey789

"Animals that eat a natural diet don't have smelly droppings."

Actually, I'm a pet food rep and this is not true. All dogs and cats are different. Some dogs, on natural food, depending on what is in it, will clear a room with stinky poop and gas. The company I work for is all natural and our competitor is all natural. I have people come up to me in the store wanting to switch off our competitor because their dog is reeking up their house.

Also, I have an allergy dog and both of my dogs were on a diet that was basically all meat, vegetables, and 1 carbohydrate source.

My little dog would get in bed with me and fart all night

I have 1 dog that has allergies also. My dogs eat mostly BARF diet and occasionally dry kibble, EVO. They have no smelly droppings and never fart anymore.

Dogs don't need carbs just like humans don't and fare better without them.

Actually, dogs with sensitive stomachs need something like oatmeal, brown rice, or pumpkin in their diet. George's gas and stinky stools did not go away till he was put on a food with oatmeal and the food giving him gas, the only carbohydrate source was potato. Dogs do need some form of carbohydrates and are omnivores.

Cats are carnivores and do not need grain

Sprootles

I find it very interesting that most of the deaths back then were from accidents, old age or infections. Today we have cancer and heart disease. I don't believe that everything he says is suited to me, but I believe that our diet has caused a deficiency in many important elements and the processed food has caused us to get ill.

People didn't live long enough to have diseases like cancer and cvd. No one really died of old age back then (assuming you're referring to the time when diets were mainly composed of meat and berries)

There is evidence found that says that many, many of our ancestors lived a very long time. The high child mortality (child birth) and injuries brings the average lifespan down.

Wrong. Infant mortality rates are NOT used to figure the 'average lifespan of paleo people', and neither are injuries. Skeletal remains with noticeable injuries that 'could' have caused death or 'most likely' caused death are noted as such, but they do NOT bring down the 'average' lifespan of paleo people as a whole. Paleo people reaching the age of 30 were old, but finding someone who may have been 50 is extremely rare. Neanderthals, by comparison, rarely reached their 30's.

When remains are unearthed approximate age is determined individually, not as a collective group.

auticus

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

cheesy_blasters

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

two thumbs way up.

Some things work for some people, some things work for others.

Glucocorticoid

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

Actually, I think he's a moron because he is spreading misinformation. Which has nothing to do with what you're implying. Because not everything is a "lifestyle" or "way of thought". There's this thing called science, it's more about "facts".

cheesy_blasters

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

Actually, I think he's a moron because he is spreading misinformation. Which has nothing to do with what you're implying. Because not everything is a "lifestyle" or "way of thought". There's this thing called science, it's more about "facts".

I interpreted this as a general reaction to the fact that the same debate happens every single time anyone posts about carbs/grains/etc. Everyone believes that they have the research and evidence that proves their opinion is right. However, people do well on grains and obviously some people believe they do well without them. When people continually try to beat their opinions into other people, it just doesn't work.

I didn't see it as a comment about the original article, since earlier in the thread he said that he didn't agree with it.

If I'm wrong, I apologize. That's just the way I read it.

Glucocorticoid

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

Actually, I think he's a moron because he is spreading misinformation. Which has nothing to do with what you're implying. Because not everything is a "lifestyle" or "way of thought". There's this thing called science, it's more about "facts".

I interpreted this as a general reaction to the fact that the same debate happens every single time anyone posts about carbs/grains/etc. Everyone believes that they have the research and evidence that proves their opinion is right. However, people do well on grains and obviously some people believe they do well without them. When people continually try to beat their opinions into other people, it just doesn't work.

I didn't see it as a comment about the original article, since earlier in the thread he said that he didn't agree with it.

If I'm wrong, I apologize. That's just the way I read it.

No one else used the term 'moron' aside from me, so I assumed it was directed toward me.

When people continually try to beat their opinions into other people, it just doesn't work.

In most cases, you're right. This is an interesting read
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

000WhiteRose000

Well I am always interested in learning and never think I have all the answers. Thanks guys.

auticus

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

Actually, I think he's a moron because he is spreading misinformation. Which has nothing to do with what you're implying. Because not everything is a "lifestyle" or "way of thought". There's this thing called science, it's more about "facts".

My response is in to this entire thread where people are using condescending terms towards each other and treating each other like morons for not following their own train of thought. It really isn't all about you.

My original reply was a neutral reply before things started getting "oh you're so stupid".

Glucocorticoid

I just love how humans always think that those that don't adhere to their lifestyle or way of thought are morons.

Carry on.

Actually, I think he's a moron because he is spreading misinformation. Which has nothing to do with what you're implying. Because not everything is a "lifestyle" or "way of thought". There's this thing called science, it's more about "facts".

My response is in to this entire thread where people are using condescending terms towards each other and treating each other like morons for not following their own train of thought. It really isn't all about you.

My original reply was a neutral reply before things started getting "oh you're so stupid".

Okay, so the bottom line is no one called you a moron. I just read your original post. If you want to think diets are "a way of thought", that's great. I wish you luck with your current way of thought. But realize that some folks look at things from a scientific perspective, and you making vague blanket statements like "carbs make us fat and ill" will be received with criticism/negativity.

plaz58

I agree that whatever works is the correct answer. I tend to agree with WhiteRose as to the carb/sugar combo - limiting these has worked for me. I have been on the Belly Fat Cure Diet (Jorge Cruise) since last August. The main theme is to limit (not eliminate) carbs and sugar to prevent the insulin spikes. I started reading labels and was amazed at how many items have a lot of sugar.

I am more full when I eat, don't feel like I deprive myself and this has morphed into a lifestyle change vs. diet. As a result, my body has drawn down and eliminated a lot of stored fat - especially around my stomach and back. I lost 35 lbs and went from a pant size 38 to 34. Even though I have not worked out routinely since August, my abs look great and body fat is the lowest it has ever been - a lot better then when I was working out every day doing the traditional calorie/fat diet and exercise routine.

Again, it won't work for everyone, but works for me! My wife even thinks I am "hot":)