veggies and fruits...what do you think?!

Rocbola

Track EVERYTHING but don't ever limit the amount of fruits and veggies that you eat. Eat as much fruit and veg as you care for, but they do have calories, so track them. That's what i think, anyway.

heretocount

I had lost all my extra weight before and I didn't count them and I ate TON of fruit every day, I stuck to 1500 cals for everything else,

HOWEVER I did not know about eating back my exercise cals and I exercised a LOT and so I was prob in a state of starving lol

temp666777

"I'll do that when I have some time. I'm not going to buy his book though...
I remember watching Tabues on one of those afternoon Dr shows...
That was the first time I remember ever hearing anything about him, and it just set off all kinds of alarm bells."

I see, so you have seen him on TV. I have not actually seen Mr Taubes on TV.

I have read the 800 pages of incredibly detailed research in his two books.

I have about 20 monographs contra Taubes and I suppose 15 or so in agreement with Taubes, and any number of papers (dozens?)

My technical library on diet science is, I guess, pretty complete - maybe 50 books? (And 20 or so intriguing historic books on the topic.)

Well all the best

Christine1110

I count them...I love them! I don't eat starchy veggies and only some fruits right now : )

sk2775

I track everything (as best as possible). Fruits do have high amount of sugar, but it is good sugar. Vegetables do have higher amount of carbs, but its better to eat carbs then processed white bread. Just make good choices and you'll do fine.

temp666777

"although veggies are low in calories..."

Don't forget that things like POTATOES and CARROTS are incredibly high in calories and incredibly high in sugar.

"Veggies" are tricky because they vary greatly. All "meat" is about the same, and all "fats" are roughly the same.

But the different veggies are from different planets.

saraann4

if it contains calories, sugar, sodium, whatever, it gets logged. fruits and veggies have calories so it gets logged

kristinamariemc

I stick to the "old" WW program (pre-Points Plus) just because I know it like the back of my hand and didn't really feel like learning the new one. Anyway, 99.9 of all fruits on this program were 1 point, and most all vegiies were "free."

RonSwanson66

"If you want to read cherry-picked science that ignores any study that disagrees with it then read Gary Taubes"

I'm really keen to find books or papers AGAINST Taubes, Dr Wolfgang Lutz, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, etc.

For sure, if you know of any, please let us know!

Once again, if you have a great paper, book, etc, which is "anti" Taubes, please let us know!

You are correct that Taubes is a journalist, not a Doctor. Nebertheless his analysis in "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is pretty conclusive - I've never seen it described as "cherry picked".

EL-OH-EL.

If you've never seen it described as cherry-picked, then you haven't been paying attention.

Can you state the or a particular study you had in mind that Taubes "ignores" or .. ??

Once again, one of my main fields of interest is finding arguments AGAINST Taubes, Kendrick, etc.

Anything specific?

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/search/label/Gary Taubes Fact Check


http://weightology.net/?p=265


http://weightology.net/?p=251


http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/11/brief-response-to-taubess-food-rewad.html

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html


"My problem with Taubes has nothing to do with his personality. Just the fact that he gets mostly everything wrong and I find it amusing watching him do the same thing he criticizes the cholesterol folks for: picking a hypothesis and then cherry picking data on it.

I'd note that if you're using a 1927 medical textbook as a primary reference on fat metabolism, you may not be in a position to claim that you've spent 'years doing exhaustive 'research'." ~Lyle McDonald


“If the facts don’t fit in with his yarn, he ignores them.” — Barbara Rolls, an obesity expert at Pennsylvania State University

“Taubes quoted me, but misrepresented my views. I was greatly offended at how Gary Taubes tricked us all into coming across as supporters of the Atkins diet. What a disaster.” — John Farquhar, professor emeritus of medicine at Stanford University’s Center for Research in Disease Prevention

“It’s not clear how Taubes thought he could ignore—or distort—what researchers told him. The article was written in bad faith. It was irresponsible.” — F. Xavier Pi- Sunyer, director of the Obesity Research Center at St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center in New York.

“The article (Big Fat Lie) was incredibly misleading. My quote was correct, but the context suggested that I support eating saturated fat. I tried to be helpful and a good citizen and I ended up being embarrassed as hell. He sort of set me up… I was horrified.” – Gerald Reaven, the pioneering Stanford University researcher, now emeritus, who coined the term, “Syndrome X.”

“I told Taubes several times that red meat is associated with a higher risk of colon and possibly prostate cancer, but he left that out.” — Walter Willett, chairman of Harvard’s nutrition department.


_______________________________________________________

Lipids. 1996 Mar;31 Suppl:S117-25.
Synthesis of fat in response to alterations in diet: insights from new stable isotope methodologies.

Hellerstein MK.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of California, Berkeley 94720-3104, USA.
Abstract

Synthesis of fatty acids, or de novo lipogenesis (DNL), is an intensively researched metabolic pathway whose functional significance and metabolic role have nevertheless remained uncertain. Methodologic problems that limited previous investigations of DNL in vivo and recent methodologic advances that address these problems are discussed here. In particular, deuterated water incorporation and mass isotopomer distribution analysis techniques are described. Recent experimental results in humans based on these techniques are reviewed, emphasizing dietary and hormonal factors that modulate DNL and quantitative significance of DNL under various conditions, including carbohydrate overfeeding. The somewhat surprising finding that DNL appears not to be a quantitatively major pathway even under conditions of surplus carbohydrate energy intake, at least in normal adults on typical Western diets, is discussed in depth. Nutritional and metabolic implications of these results are also noted, and some speculations on possible functional roles of DNL in normal physiology and disease states are presented in this context. In summary, methodologic advances have added to our understanding of DNL and its regulation, but many questions concerning quantitation and function remain unanswered.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

graelwyn

I track them. I eat a lot of veggies each day and a piece of fruit or two, but don't fret about it too much. Sooner reach for a pear than a 100g chocolate bar. (unless I am monstrously craving chocolate)

small_ninja

Just adding to the trend:
I generally log everything I eat, and so that includes fruit and veges - I eat a lot of bananas and they're unfortunately pretty high in calories; often I have to think twice before grabbing a second banana coz I can't afford the calories :frown:

carld256

I see, so you have seen him on TV. I have not actually seen Mr Taubes on TV.

Well, that was a bit condescending. What I actually said, was that that was my first exposure to him, not my only.

cheesy_blasters

I log everything because I track my iron/calcium as well. I also like to see what I eat a lot of so I can switch it up if I find that I'm eating the same things every day.

keem88

i usually log veggies and fruits, b/c a salad can quickly turn to 200 calories, and a banana is 105. calories are still calories, sugar is still sugar. doesn't matter if it comes from a 100 calorie pack or a 100 calorie fresh fruit, still gotta log that ****

Thena81

some say that they dont eat them b/c of the carbs but they arent the same as bread/sugar carbs. i eat my fruit and loove it!! lol

mmapags

In case you haven't figured it out yet, our friend is an anti carb person. FTR, potatoes are a starch not a vegetable. Carrots are high in beta carotene, fiber and vitamin A, among other good things. With the possible exception of trans fats (which I would argue is not really a food) I think it is a fallacy to demonize any single food yet this individual does this regularly. Extremism is always so ...... well, extreme.

ETA: I count 'em all. if you are calorie counting, then you count the calories. Fruit and veggies have calories. Simple as that.

donnakay52

For me, every calorie counts, even the healthiest of them.

sarah3333

I used to give myself what I called "Free Foods" celery, cucumbers, spinach, and green peppers... but then when I added it all up one day and realized I had eaten like 150 calories of them, they didn't seem so free anymore so now I log everything.

sthrnchick

I personally log everything I eat...even the one starburst last night... I log all the veggies and fruits.

Sarauk2sf

Fruits are all sugar. Consider it carefully.

Some veggies have a lott of sugar. Potatoes and carroys are deadly.

Consider it carefully.

Carbohydrate is carbohydrate. If you are eating fruit you are eating carbohydrate.

The ida that there are "good and bad" carbs is very controversial. Atoms are all the same. Carboydrate molecules are all the same.

If you want to read a huge pile of hard science on this very issue, buy Gary Taubes book, "Why we get fat." It is priceless. Don't go on rumours - get science.

A huge pile of something is right..

Kalynx

I track everything (as best as possible). Fruits do have high amount of sugar, but it is good sugar. Vegetables do have higher amount of carbs, but its better to eat carbs then processed white bread. Just make good choices and you'll do fine.

This! and a few others!

I try to add lots of fruit to my daily routine..sometimes its hit or miss or none at all ..I dont stress over the carbs too much because I know with those carbs I get tons and tons of random nutrients, vitamins and minerals that my body needs AND because its not man made it is good for my body to process for the most part. Low or sodium free too!! And usually a potassium bonus!!

I am type 2 diabetic but have controlled it for 7 yrs WITHOUT medication even when not trying to lose weight or be healthier, per say. My A1C tests every three to six months prove it. I do try to only have one meal a day that focuses on a man made carb, or potatos, (ok so like bread pasta or potatos - or if I have a sandwich for lunch, no heavy carbs at dinner!) and breakfast doesnt count because I function best with a good mix of all food types - carbs, proteins, dairy and fats.

Also have read that veggies and fruit digest better and help us absorb the goodies in them when eaten with fats...so brocolli and cheese, peanut butter and bananas.....butter or olive oil with any veggie pefectly acceptable!! (to me at least)

babynew

Log it all

Learn Alot

MoreBean13

Fruits are all sugar. Consider it carefully.

Some veggies have a lott of sugar. Potatoes and carroys are deadly.

Consider it carefully.

Carbohydrate is carbohydrate. If you are eating fruit you are eating carbohydrate.

The ida that there are "good and bad" carbs is very controversial. Atoms are all the same. Carboydrate molecules are all the same.

If you want to read a huge pile of hard science on this very issue, buy Gary Taubes book, "Why we get fat." It is priceless. Don't go on rumours - get science.

Some Carbohydrate Molecules:


Do they all look the same to you? Before you argue with me about this, let me qualify that I have a degree in chemical engineering and took graduate level specialty courses in food chemistry.

babynew

IMO
A Calorie is a unit of energy
Its up to Each of us to Determine Where they come from.
Good, Bad, Empty, Healthy

I choose Healthy. ..For Me
That * word Healthy is Individualized for each one of us.
Choose wisely for your personal needs
Good Luck :flowerforyou:

melaniecheeks

Which is more difficult - clicking the button to add a few tomatoes?

Or having to decide - is this a fruit? or a vegetable? or a starchy root? Will I count it or will I not? And then if I'm not losing weight I wont have a full record of what I ate to be able to analyse if its working or not??

Side-stepping the good-carb/ bad-carb theatre that's going on in the margins, personally I like to be able to look back in my diary for ideas for meals that worked well, and that means recording everything.

yarwell

Do they all look the same to you? Before you argue with me about this, let me qualify that I have a degree in chemical engineering

Me too. You should show us picture of the G,F and S molecules in a Mars bar and those in an orange for comparison.

By "molecules are all the same" I think they meant "regardless of source" ie fructose in HFCS is the same molecule as fructose in fruit.

peggymenard

The exchange has been interesting. For me, I'm sticking with the frutose and said goodbye to the sucrose and glucose. I have researched just about everything that goes in my mouth and I record everything. Fruits and veggies are not on my panic list.

NomiS6

I count them all, but thats me and it's your call to count them or not.

PercivalHackworth

The exchange has been interesting. For me, I'm sticking with the frutose and said goodbye to the sucrose and glucose. I have researched just about everything that goes in my mouth and I record everything. Fruits and veggies are not on my panic list.

Why such ose restriction ?

yarwell

For me, I'm sticking with the frutose and said goodbye to the sucrose and glucose

Most fruits have all three - so unless you're eating fructose out of a packet...........