veggies and fruits...what do you think?!

zCarsAndCaloriesz

I track everything but spices.
I just like to know what I ate during the day, otherwise I tend to forget and go over my daily calorie goal. It make's things easier when you have a list right there with everything on it!!

mathjulz

I count the fruits for sure. A banana or an apple is around 75-100 calories (or a bit more) depending on size. A couple of those not counted could eat up your deficit for the day.

I generally count vegetables too. For one thing, I track fiber, so I want credit for those veggies! :laugh: And I try to get as close as possible to my goal, so if I'm eating vegetables and not logging I might be over. I am of the mindset that I should log everything that goes in my mouth (though I often don't :noway: )

Contrarian

I think you will find that most people track them. Weight Watchers doesn't, but that's a different program.

If you are counting calories, it is in your best interest to count ALL the calories.

SweetPickle007

Hi..well if your counting calories, then yes you need to record them. Fruit can be high in calories and can add up quickly...Vegetables have small amounts of calories, except starchy ones they have alot more.Good luck.

tldust

I count my fruits and veggies. They have calories too. And it's good to look back to see how well you're doing with your fruits & veggies.

umachanxo

I track them... I try to track everything that I eat. Though, I'll admit, sometimes at the end of a Saturday I may not log that 1/2 cup frozen yogurt...

But in the end, you do what's best for you. If you find tracking everything works better and keeps you in check, then you should do that. If you find you are losing comfortably not tracking fruits and veggies, then continue .

carld256

Once again, one of my main fields of interest is finding arguments AGAINST Taubes, Kendrick, etc.

Anything specific?

I'll do that when I have some time. I'm not going to buy his book though, so I'll have to see what I can dig up online.

I remember watching Tabues on one of those afternoon Dr shows with Jilllian Michaels where they were talking about exercise. Taubes, as I remember, doesn't think exercise is any benefit to losing weight. But when it came to the actual discussion all he had to fall back on was "Haven't you ever heard of working up an appetite?" as if that were some sort of solid scientific basis for his beliefs. He also said something about insulin and exercise, to which Michaels responded "There are all sorts of hormones released when you exercise, not just insulin." I don't think he even responded to her after that.

That was the first time I remember ever hearing anything about him, and it just set off all kinds of alarm bells.

yarwell

Taubes, as I remember, doesn't think exercise is any benefit to losing weight. But when it came to the actual discussion all he had to fall back on was "Haven't you ever heard of working up an appetite?"

They should have come here - "eat back your exercise calories" - QED

ThisisMiss

A calorie is a calorie, no matter how big or small. I count my fruits and veggies because fruits can be high in calories and although veggies are low in calories, it can sometimes be the line that takes me over my calories on bad days. (Not that I will eat less veggies, but it will fill me up more and help keep me from reaching for the bad stuff.)

NicNZ25

I count fruit, because it does add up! Like some else already said, a banana is 140 calories. A cup of grapes is 60, and I love grapes, I'll often eat 2 cups a day.

I count some veges (potato, sweet potato, tomato, corn, carrot I'll count if I eat alot of it that day, like sitting down with a stack of carrot sticks and some chilli lime yoghurt dip, but if its just a bit grated into a salad I don't worry about it) but if its green I don't usually count it, and if its just a small amount of something in a salad like 1/4 of a diced bell pepper, then I don't count it.

At this stage, working for me. If it stops working, then I might revisit it, but I seriously doubt that eating too many green veges will be the reason I stop losing weight. It certainly wasn't the reason I put it on!

Rocbola

Track EVERYTHING but don't ever limit the amount of fruits and veggies that you eat. Eat as much fruit and veg as you care for, but they do have calories, so track them. That's what i think, anyway.

heretocount

I had lost all my extra weight before and I didn't count them and I ate TON of fruit every day, I stuck to 1500 cals for everything else,

HOWEVER I did not know about eating back my exercise cals and I exercised a LOT and so I was prob in a state of starving lol

temp666777

"I'll do that when I have some time. I'm not going to buy his book though...
I remember watching Tabues on one of those afternoon Dr shows...
That was the first time I remember ever hearing anything about him, and it just set off all kinds of alarm bells."

I see, so you have seen him on TV. I have not actually seen Mr Taubes on TV.

I have read the 800 pages of incredibly detailed research in his two books.

I have about 20 monographs contra Taubes and I suppose 15 or so in agreement with Taubes, and any number of papers (dozens?)

My technical library on diet science is, I guess, pretty complete - maybe 50 books? (And 20 or so intriguing historic books on the topic.)

Well all the best

Christine1110

I count them...I love them! I don't eat starchy veggies and only some fruits right now : )

sk2775

I track everything (as best as possible). Fruits do have high amount of sugar, but it is good sugar. Vegetables do have higher amount of carbs, but its better to eat carbs then processed white bread. Just make good choices and you'll do fine.

temp666777

"although veggies are low in calories..."

Don't forget that things like POTATOES and CARROTS are incredibly high in calories and incredibly high in sugar.

"Veggies" are tricky because they vary greatly. All "meat" is about the same, and all "fats" are roughly the same.

But the different veggies are from different planets.

saraann4

if it contains calories, sugar, sodium, whatever, it gets logged. fruits and veggies have calories so it gets logged

kristinamariemc

I stick to the "old" WW program (pre-Points Plus) just because I know it like the back of my hand and didn't really feel like learning the new one. Anyway, 99.9 of all fruits on this program were 1 point, and most all vegiies were "free."

RonSwanson66

"If you want to read cherry-picked science that ignores any study that disagrees with it then read Gary Taubes"

I'm really keen to find books or papers AGAINST Taubes, Dr Wolfgang Lutz, Dr. Malcolm Kendrick, etc.

For sure, if you know of any, please let us know!

Once again, if you have a great paper, book, etc, which is "anti" Taubes, please let us know!

You are correct that Taubes is a journalist, not a Doctor. Nebertheless his analysis in "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is pretty conclusive - I've never seen it described as "cherry picked".

EL-OH-EL.

If you've never seen it described as cherry-picked, then you haven't been paying attention.

Can you state the or a particular study you had in mind that Taubes "ignores" or .. ??

Once again, one of my main fields of interest is finding arguments AGAINST Taubes, Kendrick, etc.

Anything specific?

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/search/label/Gary Taubes Fact Check


http://weightology.net/?p=265


http://weightology.net/?p=251


http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/11/brief-response-to-taubess-food-rewad.html

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html


"My problem with Taubes has nothing to do with his personality. Just the fact that he gets mostly everything wrong and I find it amusing watching him do the same thing he criticizes the cholesterol folks for: picking a hypothesis and then cherry picking data on it.

I'd note that if you're using a 1927 medical textbook as a primary reference on fat metabolism, you may not be in a position to claim that you've spent 'years doing exhaustive 'research'." ~Lyle McDonald


“If the facts don’t fit in with his yarn, he ignores them.” — Barbara Rolls, an obesity expert at Pennsylvania State University

“Taubes quoted me, but misrepresented my views. I was greatly offended at how Gary Taubes tricked us all into coming across as supporters of the Atkins diet. What a disaster.” — John Farquhar, professor emeritus of medicine at Stanford University’s Center for Research in Disease Prevention

“It’s not clear how Taubes thought he could ignore—or distort—what researchers told him. The article was written in bad faith. It was irresponsible.” — F. Xavier Pi- Sunyer, director of the Obesity Research Center at St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center in New York.

“The article (Big Fat Lie) was incredibly misleading. My quote was correct, but the context suggested that I support eating saturated fat. I tried to be helpful and a good citizen and I ended up being embarrassed as hell. He sort of set me up… I was horrified.” – Gerald Reaven, the pioneering Stanford University researcher, now emeritus, who coined the term, “Syndrome X.”

“I told Taubes several times that red meat is associated with a higher risk of colon and possibly prostate cancer, but he left that out.” — Walter Willett, chairman of Harvard’s nutrition department.


_______________________________________________________

Lipids. 1996 Mar;31 Suppl:S117-25.
Synthesis of fat in response to alterations in diet: insights from new stable isotope methodologies.

Hellerstein MK.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of California, Berkeley 94720-3104, USA.
Abstract

Synthesis of fatty acids, or de novo lipogenesis (DNL), is an intensively researched metabolic pathway whose functional significance and metabolic role have nevertheless remained uncertain. Methodologic problems that limited previous investigations of DNL in vivo and recent methodologic advances that address these problems are discussed here. In particular, deuterated water incorporation and mass isotopomer distribution analysis techniques are described. Recent experimental results in humans based on these techniques are reviewed, emphasizing dietary and hormonal factors that modulate DNL and quantitative significance of DNL under various conditions, including carbohydrate overfeeding. The somewhat surprising finding that DNL appears not to be a quantitatively major pathway even under conditions of surplus carbohydrate energy intake, at least in normal adults on typical Western diets, is discussed in depth. Nutritional and metabolic implications of these results are also noted, and some speculations on possible functional roles of DNL in normal physiology and disease states are presented in this context. In summary, methodologic advances have added to our understanding of DNL and its regulation, but many questions concerning quantitation and function remain unanswered.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

graelwyn

I track them. I eat a lot of veggies each day and a piece of fruit or two, but don't fret about it too much. Sooner reach for a pear than a 100g chocolate bar. (unless I am monstrously craving chocolate)