Fact or Fiction?

tlhorsley
tlhorsley Posts: 141 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Protein.

How much can the body absorb during one meal?

Fact or Fiction, anything beyond 40g turns in to waste?

For every "study" I find saying do not consume more than 40g per meal I find another one saying that is just a myth.

Asked a trainer at the gym and he said it is closer to 20g's....

Totally confused. I want to consume enough protein throughout the day but don't want to waste any...
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Replies

  • autumnk921
    autumnk921 Posts: 1,374 Member
    Bump....This is something that I have been told different things about as well...I consume at least 60-70 when I drink one protein shake...I used to consume more at times but was told that this is not a good idea...It's just a waste of protein basically b/c your body will only use so much of it...So what is the REAL story???

    Great topic!! :)
  • cheesy_blasters
    cheesy_blasters Posts: 283 Member
    My nutritionist recommended that I get 20g several times a day and try to have protein in each snack I eat. She didn't say anything about not going over a certain amount or anything like that- just try not to be under.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    So....

    Are you thinking if you down a 20 oz Porterhouse your body doesn't bother to digest most of it because there is too much protein?

    This is a total myth, your body digests protein same as fat and carbs, you can't eat "too much" to digest.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    I haven't looked at stuff on a per meal basis, the daily nitrogen balance is dependent on calorie balance for one thing - ie are you gaining / losing / maintaining fat and generally on the grams protein per lb body weight.

    "The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can
    absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver’s capacity
    to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen"

    according to http://home.exetel.com.au/surreality/health/A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans.pdf

    I can see where a limit of 10g/h might lead to 20g per meal on the basis of two hours to absorb it.
  • tlhorsley
    tlhorsley Posts: 141 Member
    So....

    Are you thinking if you down a 20 oz Porterhouse your body doesn't bother to digest most of it because there is too much protein?

    This is a total myth, your body digests protein same as fat and carbs, you can't eat "too much" to digest.

    I don't know, that is why I am asking. I want to make sure I maximize the amount of protein I am eating/drinking.
  • tlhorsley
    tlhorsley Posts: 141 Member
    Anyone?
  • autumnk921
    autumnk921 Posts: 1,374 Member
    Bump...Would love to know if anyone knows this info at all...
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    It's not a myth. Your body can only absorb so much protein in a given time period, though I admit the science of the study I was reading was a bit over my head.
  • mcarter99
    mcarter99 Posts: 1,666 Member
    I had never heard that but I googled it and the first three articles said it's a myth. One even had supporting studies.

    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I think how it works is the body disassembles the compounds we eat and reassembles them as needed. This is why we have the term "essential fatty acids". They're the one thing our body must get directly from our diet. It can't create them from other compounds.
  • mlewon
    mlewon Posts: 343 Member
    wow..so many contrasting answers..
  • DoOrDoNotThereIsNoTry1
    DoOrDoNotThereIsNoTry1 Posts: 149 Member
    The body only needs 40-60 grams of protein to build and maintain muscle mass. You can however become toxic on too much protein. I had a friend how was having 80-120 grams per day. He became lethargic, tired, jaundice and kept doing it. Finally doctors realized he was poisoning himself. The excess protein caused his liver to overwork and thus his liver shut down and subsequent organs. If it would have been a few weeks longer before treated, he probably would not be around.
    Stick with 40-60, that will be plenty.
    And, to help breakdown proteins, drink some apple cider vinegar. It helps increase with protein digestion.
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I'm pretty sure we don't store protein.
  • bellygoaway
    bellygoaway Posts: 441 Member
    The answer to your question is a resounding "Yes!"

    Remember that too much of a good thing is a bad thing. In all my research on this, here is the best statement I ever came across...

    So what’s the take home message here? The research on this isn’t 100% crystal clear as there are a number of variables to be taken into account: Trainee age, training intensity, total amount of protein given per day, type of protein administered, and so on.

    The body will not store excess protein, but I don't think there is a specific number that is the same for everyone.
  • mcarter99
    mcarter99 Posts: 1,666 Member
    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I'm pretty sure we don't store protein.

    Yeah, I guess it's more that we store the amino acids? I don't know. Here's a good article. I should've used the term "essential amino acids" above, probably (not essential fatty acids).

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/413631-does-the-body-store-protein/
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    Myth:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Myth:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

    ^ This right here.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    I can see where a limit of 10g/h might lead to 20g per meal on the basis of two hours to absorb it.

    Absorption time would be dose dependent. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that a meal of 60g would just take much longer to fully absorb?
  • marsbarxo
    marsbarxo Posts: 7
    The body only needs 40-60 grams of protein to build and maintain muscle mass. You can however become toxic on too much protein.

    ^^this. unlike fat and carbs, your body does not store extra protein. it basically uses what it needs from the protein that you consume, and gets rid of the rest. you can be toxic on too much protein, but it is also important to consume enough (although it is very very difficult for the average person to become protein deficient)
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    It's not a myth. Your body can only absorb so much protein in a given time period, though I admit the science of the study I was reading was a bit over my head.

    The way the myth was conceived was basically the construct of people bad at math who don't understand systems.

    Protein can only be absorbed so fast from various foods. This is pretty well known and the data is readily available.
    Somebody made the two following INCORRECT assumptions:
    1) That stacking is not allowed
    2) That the absorbtion takes place fully in the stomach, and the stomach is cleared within a fairly short period of time.

    Combine those two assumptions with the average protein absorbtion rate for food and you "discover" that there is maximum daily limit of protein that the body can absorb, and that the limit is quite low.

    The people that made that logical leap and made that "discovery" apparently ignored the data about protein utilization, that is the % of protein absorbed from various foods is dependant on the food itself and not the timing of eating; this myth absolutely has to be false if that is true.

    The problem is that both those assumptions are wrong. Protein absorbtion from a particular food can go on for many hours into the small intestine. While protein absorbtion from that meal will continue at the maximum rate for the food, the digestive system can handle multiple meals simultaneously. Thus the digestive system is stacking absorbtion and has much, much longer to do its thing than the creators of the myth thought.

    Like I said, just like there is a maximum absorbtion rate there is also a utilization rate. Funny thing is these tend to go hand in hand. Studies tend to include both pieces of information. If the body has a maximum daily absorbtion, utilization rate cannot exist as maximum daily absorbtion would be a boundary condition.

    And really common sense is all that is needed to debunk this myth. You don't for real believe that our body can only process one of the big 3 macronutrients at a limited quantity per day. The sniff test for any sort of thing like this is "would this be a good or bad evolutionary adaptation", having a limited capacity to process one of the macronutriets is obviously bad evolution.

    Where did this myth come from? It is obvious. There are a lot of people always fearful of they or them, seeing conspiracy in everything. Many people beleive that the need for elevated protein is just a myth created by suppliment companies and perpetuated by fitness mags to sell you stuff. This is not helped by the pitiful RDA on food labels and lack of any sort of useful official gov't guidance. Instead of performing actual trials on themselves to determine protein need (though creating an n=1 experiment for most is not something they are capable of doing well), they instead find ways to critque and push back against what they see as a conspiracy by greedy corporations by trying to bend science to fit what they want it to say.

    In this instance though they are flat out WRONG. That the body can only absorb X grams of protein a day is a myth.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I'm pretty sure we don't store protein.

    What do you think muscles are made of and where do you think the body gets protein when it doesn't have enough from dietary sources?
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    The body only needs 40-60 grams of protein to build and maintain muscle mass. You can however become toxic on too much protein.

    ^^this. unlike fat and carbs, your body does not store extra protein. it basically uses what it needs from the protein that you consume, and gets rid of the rest.

    Do you belong to a different species that doesn't have the capacity for gluconeogenesis?
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I'm pretty sure we don't store protein.

    What do you think muscles are made of and where do you think the body gets protein when it doesn't have enough from dietary sources?

    Excess protein is stored as fat, period, end of story.
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    Intuitively, I would think it's not true because we're hunter/gatherers biologically. We could get protein only several meals per week, or less. It would behoove our body to store it.

    I'm pretty sure we don't store protein.

    What do you think muscles are made of and where do you think the body gets protein when it doesn't have enough from dietary sources?

    Excess protein is stored as fat, period, end of story.

    Not even close.

    while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    The body only needs 40-60 grams of protein to build and maintain muscle mass. You can however become toxic on too much protein. I had a friend how was having 80-120 grams per day. He became lethargic, tired, jaundice and kept doing it. Finally doctors realized he was poisoning himself. The excess protein caused his liver to overwork and thus his liver shut down and subsequent organs. If it would have been a few weeks longer before treated, he probably would not be around.
    Stick with 40-60, that will be plenty.
    And, to help breakdown proteins, drink some apple cider vinegar. It helps increase with protein digestion.

    Not sure if serious.....

    Is your friend 10 lbs?

    Ridiculously high levels over a long period of time has been linked to some kidney issues, but ridiculously high meaning 3x+ bodyweight in g, NOT 80-120g.

    If someone is getting ill from that small of an amount, they are either smller than midget tiny (thus it isn't a small amount) or they have some sort of other disease that makes their protein utilization abnormal.

    Groups like the Inuit don't have issues at all, and their natural diet has A LOT of protein well into the levels that are considered "unsafe".

    Pretty much any decent medical source or nutritionist will agree that up to 30-35% of your daily calories from protein is perfectly safe.

    If you are weightlifting and eating less than 1/g/lb LBM you are spinning your wheels, you are not taking in enough protein to repair your muscles at an optimal rate; a singificant increase in recovery and growth rate (if in a surplus) is expected if you up your protein intake.

    Think about it, every winter when all the plants die, prehistoric humans had meat to eat and little else. If "high" protein intake (80-120g is LOW not high) would poison them, I'm curious as to how the human race survived in areas with winters before the advent of civilization and things like grain cultivation.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,321 Member
    I haven't looked at stuff on a per meal basis, the daily nitrogen balance is dependent on calorie balance for one thing - ie are you gaining / losing / maintaining fat and generally on the grams protein per lb body weight.

    "The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can
    absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver’s capacity
    to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen"

    according to http://home.exetel.com.au/surreality/health/A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans.pdf

    I can see where a limit of 10g/h might lead to 20g per meal on the basis of two hours to absorb it.

    That would be assuming it just takes 2 hours to digest a meal. The reality is that full digestion takes a lot longer than 2 hours. Probably up to 8 (maybe more) depending on the meal make-up. So a meal higher in protein would simply take longer to digest.
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    The body only needs 40-60 grams of protein to build and maintain muscle mass. You can however become toxic on too much protein. I had a friend how was having 80-120 grams per day. He became lethargic, tired, jaundice and kept doing it. Finally doctors realized he was poisoning himself. The excess protein caused his liver to overwork and thus his liver shut down and subsequent organs. If it would have been a few weeks longer before treated, he probably would not be around.
    Stick with 40-60, that will be plenty.
    And, to help breakdown proteins, drink some apple cider vinegar. It helps increase with protein digestion.

    Not sure if serious.....

    Is your friend 10 lbs?


    There are some extremely rare metabolic disorders that result in the inability to properly metabolize protein. I'm guessing this is probably the case (if he isn't just making things up).

    Not at all relevant to the general population.
  • autumnk921
    autumnk921 Posts: 1,374 Member
    Myth:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/


    Thank you for this link....It really helps answer the question of amount of protein per meal....:happy:
  • happyfeetrebel1
    happyfeetrebel1 Posts: 1,005 Member
    My dietician said I need at LEAST 80g per day, but closer to 100 would be optimal :)
  • tlhorsley
    tlhorsley Posts: 141 Member
    Myth:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

    ^^ I think this seems to be the most beneficial thing I have read. Explained well.

    Sounds as if I want to have a 60g protein meal or shake then my body is going to use it and not throw 20-30g of it away.
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    Not even close.

    while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html

    I don't want to get into a link war but a quick google turned numerous sites that explained exactly how the body goes about turning protein into fat.

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