How important is the post-workout protein?

MariaLivingFit

I've read that it would be beneficial to drink a protein shake right after working out.

Currently, I workout from 5 - 6 am, eat breakfast at 8 am, and have a protein shake for my mid-morning snack at 10:30 am. Am I doing myself a disservice by not having the protein shake right after working out? How important is this really? I am just trying to decide if I should flip my meals and have the protein shake before breakfast. (ps - breakfast is usually cereal/oats or yogurt with berries).

Any suggestions? Thanks.

stfuriada

That's not true. The 'anabolic window' is a myth.

You can ingest it at any time during the day.

skinnybearlyndsay

I've read two ways. 1.) Within 30 minutes to an hour you need protein to help "fill in" the muscles where you've expanded/injured them from working out. 2.) Eat better for 24 hours following an intense workout for recovery.

Personally, I usually eat some sort of protein bar within 30 minutes to an hour, just because I'm starving. And then I usually have something else at home with protein. I have noticed that while I am sore the following day, it's not as bad as when I don't eat extra protein.

To each their own.

Sidesteal

I've read that it would be beneficial to drink a protein shake right after working out.

Currently, I workout from 5 - 6 am, eat breakfast at 8 am, and have a protein shake for my mid-morning snack at 10:30 am. Am I doing myself a disservice by not having the protein shake right after working out? How important is this really? I am just trying to decide if I should flip my meals and have the protein shake before breakfast. (ps - breakfast is usually cereal/oats or yogurt with berries).

Any suggestions? Thanks.

To my knowledge the majority of research on this topic suggests that there's no urgency to drink a protein shake immediately post-training. There's essentially a nutrient overlapping effect in that if you're not training fasted and you're ingesting protein at some point prior to your training, you'll very likely still have sufficient amino acids and insulin in your system to reap the benefits that a protein shake would provide post-workout. It's by the same logic that you don't really need to eat every 2 hours for constant amino acid supply when trying to build muscle.


Lastly and most importantly, the other thing to consider is that even if it DID matter, how much would it matter?

It's going to be FAR, FAR more important that you hit your calorie and macronutrient totals by the end of the day, and it's also going to be far more important for you to consume enough protein, vs timing these nutrients.

Yanicka1

I take a protein shake if I am a bit low at the end of the day.

Take it when you can unless you are a bodybuilder and have a competition next weekend

ahamm002

Post work-out protein/carb shakes have become a staple among athletes for a reason. Here's a good article from Charles Poliquin that goes over the details. Keep in mind that he sells post-workout nutrition supplements, so he's obviously biased. However, there are numerous references listed at the end of the article if you don't want to take his word for it:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/414/Top-five-things-you-MUST-know-about-post-workout-nutrition.aspx

I've also read a study that demonstrated that you basically had a two hour window to get most of the benefit out of a post-workout protein shake, but I don't have time to try and look up the reference right now.

Sidesteal

a good article from Charles Poliquin

Genuine question: Do you put any validity into anything Piloquin says?

This man literally says counting calories is for morons yet he counts the 48 pills he stuffs in his name-brand coffee cup so he can chug in intra-workout.


I would suggest people take his info cautiously.

tamsinwhitfield

Seems to be some dispute over this, but the last thing my trainer usually says to me at the end of a session is "protein within two hours!", which seems to correlate with the post above. And I do it because I am obedient. Logically it does make sense (to me, at least) - if protein is to aid muscle repair / recovery, and presumably your body begins this process as soon as they're no longer in use (i.e. at the end of the workout), so I suppose the sooner the better? Plus protein is filling, and I'm always starving after a heavy workout - so that's a benefit I can definitely get on board with.

monty619

its just as important as pre workout protein... or protein at breakfast... or protein at any time of the day.

MariaLivingFit

Lastly and most importantly, the other thing to consider is that even if it DID matter, how much would it matter?

I think this is an important point to consider. While it may have some benefit, would it be substantial enough to change up my routine for?

Thanks for all the responses so far!

ahamm002

Genuine question: Do you put any validity into anything Piloquin says?

This man literally says counting calories is for morons yet he counts the 48 pills he stuffs in his name-brand coffee cup so he can chug in intra-workout.


I would suggest people take his info cautiously.

He's one of the best in the world when it comes to training a broad range of professional athletes. The results speak for themselves. So I'll put validity into his post-workout nutrition guides. Of course you have to take his supplement recomendations with a grain of salt since he sells them.

I don't know of him ever saying that counting calories is for morons? He does agree with Taubes that the notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie is for morons. But he's definitely not alone in that camp.

AMG00

Well it depends what you are trying to achieve? I am a figure and power lifter competitor so protein pre and post a weight training workout is important because I am trying to sustain my muscle mass. However protein isn't needed before or after a cardio workout.

Also if you are going to do a protein shake after a weight training session then you would use a whey protein because it is fast absoring and a mix protein for snacks.

Sidesteal

I don't know of him ever saying that counting calories is for morons?

He said it, on a video, recently. I think he's a quack.

ahamm002

I think this is an important point to consider. While it may have some benefit, would it be substantial enough to change up my routine for?

Thanks for all the responses so far!

Well it's impossible to say exactly how much difference it would make and certainly depends on your exercise regimen. The higher volume and heavier the resistance, the more important proper post-workout nutrition will be for muscle recovery and growth.

ahamm002

I don't know of him ever saying that counting calories is for morons?

He said it, on a video, recently. I think he's a quack.

I think I know the video you're talking about, and I think you're misquoting him. If he's a quack, how did he train so many Olympic athletes successfully? Luck?

RonSwanson66

LOLoquin lost his mind years ago.

Breakfast
2 VasculoGuard
2 Resveratrol Px
2 EFA Complete
1 Über C

Lunch
2 VasculoGuard
2 Resveratrol Px
2 EFA Complete
1 Über C

Dinner
2 VasculoGuard
3 Magnesium Glycinate
1 Über C

Evening Snack
4 ÜberMag
5 Chondro Px
2 Sinew Plex
2 Inflam Px

...


Pre-Workout (45 minutes before working out)
4 JavaStim
3 Yang R-ALA

During Workout
40 BCAA Excellence
20 Beta Alanine Supreme
5 Lysine
5 Yang R-ALA

Immediately Post-Workout
2 tablespoons of Primal Greens in 2 cups of water
10 Amino Acid Supreme

30 minutes Post-Workout
150 grams of QuadriCarb and 50 grams of Whey Stronger mixed in 2/3 liter of water, and 1/3 liter of a high-glycemic-index juice such as grape juice.
With it I take 5 Yin R-ALA and 3 ÜberMag

ahamm002

LOLoquin lost his mind years ago.

Unlike you, he provides studies to back his claims up. How about the people saying that post-workout nutrition doesn't matter provide some studies? Ya know, given that post-workout nutrition has been incredibly heavily studied over the years, I'm sure you'll easily be able to find some studies supporting your claims . . .

RonSwanson66

LOLoquin lost his mind years ago.

Unlike you, he provides studies to back his claims up. How about the people saying that post-workout nutrition doesn't matter provide some studies? Ya know, given that post-workout nutrition has been incredibly heavily studied over the years, I'm sure you'll easily be able to find some studies supporting your claims . . .

Care to point to a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes? Not even remotely relevant for weight-training in a fed state.

ahamm002

Care to point to a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes? Not even remotely relevant for weight-training in a fed state.

Post workout nutrition is a heavily studied area. If you can't find a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes then you didn't search very hard. Regardless, no study is perfect and you can always find some fault if you look hard enough. So instead of taking the easy road by just criticizing the studies posted by others, why don't you actually support your own point for a change?

Sidesteal

I don't know of him ever saying that counting calories is for morons?

He said it, on a video, recently. I think he's a quack.

I think I know the video you're talking about, and I think you're misquoting him. If he's a quack, how did he train so many Olympic athletes successfully? Luck?

I think I am not misquoting anything. It is literally the first thing out of his mouth. See here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=145332551

EDIT: I'll try to stop being an *kitten*.

Sidesteal

Care to point to a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes? Not even remotely relevant for weight-training in a fed state.

Post workout nutrition is a heavily studied area. If you can't find a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes then you didn't search very hard. Regardless, no study is perfect and you can always find some fault if you look hard enough. So instead of taking the easy road by just criticizing the studies posted by others, why don't you actually support your own point for a change?

You are the one declaring that there is a direct benefit to proper post workout nutrition.

MariaLivingFit

Well it depends what you are trying to achieve? I am a figure and power lifter competitor so protein pre and post a weight training workout is important because I am trying to sustain my muscle mass. However protein isn't needed before or after a cardio workout.

Also if you are going to do a protein shake after a weight training session then you would use a whey protein because it is fast absoring and a mix protein for snacks.

My workouts consist of mostly cardio, but I try to throw in some weights as well. I am currently using 8 - 10 pound free weights - so I guess you could say I'm not really a power lifter! ;-)

I also always use whey protein. Thanks!

RonSwanson66

Care to point to a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes? Not even remotely relevant for weight-training in a fed state.

Post workout nutrition is a heavily studied area. If you can't find a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes then you didn't search very hard. Regardless, no study is perfect and you can always find some fault if you look hard enough. So instead of taking the easy road by just criticizing the studies posted by others, why don't you actually support your own point for a change?

LOL

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. YOU are the one claiming that it's important. YOU are the one that needs to support the claim. Appeals to authority (especially when that authority is a nutjob who makes his living selling this ****) don't count.

There have been literally thousands of studies (most funded by supplement companies) and not a single one that I've seen has used protocols relevant to fed trainees.

Ingestion of amino acids after resistance exercise has been shown at many different time points in several studies to stimulate increases in muscle protein synthesis, cause minimal changes in protein breakdown and increase overall protein balance. It has not been conclusively determined what time point is optimal. Similar changes have been found for studies that have administered amino acids alone or with carbohydrate immediately upon completion of an acute exercise bout, 1 h after completion, 2 h after completion and 3 h after completion. Interestingly, ingesting nutrients before the exercise bout may have the most benefit of all the time points.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t067456j53773760/fulltext.html

Acg67

Care to point to a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes? Not even remotely relevant for weight-training in a fed state.

Post workout nutrition is a heavily studied area. If you can't find a single study that doesn't use fasted endurance athletes then you didn't search very hard. Regardless, no study is perfect and you can always find some fault if you look hard enough. So instead of taking the easy road by just criticizing the studies posted by others, why don't you actually support your own point for a change?

Effect of protein supplement timing on strength, power and body compositional changes in experienced resistance trained men. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2009

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478342

ArroganceInStep

Just from a practical standpoint, if you drink a protein shake (and lets take this to the extreme for argument's sake) immediately before your workout, what happens to that protein in the time it took you to work out?

hark15

This really created a firestorm! I only drink protein shakes after a workout on lifting days and my trainer told me to "drink it within 30 minutes or you are wasting your workout." I don't know if that's really true but I do it anyway because I figure it can't hurt and after a hard workout the protein shake fills me up. Then I eat my "breakfast" around 9:30/10:00. I find that if I do that I feel less fatigued after a hard lifting workout. It could just be a mental thing.

You could maybe try it for a little while and see if you think you feel any better/different - probably personal preference since you are not a power lifter

JNick77

Just from a practical standpoint, if you drink a protein shake (and lets take this to the extreme for argument's sake) immediately before your workout, what happens to that protein in the time it took you to work out?

Wouldn't it depend on the type of protein shake? I would think that a 100% Whey or Hydrolized Whey would digest faster than a Casein or Egg protein mix.

Nice post Acg.

Dr. John Berardi posted his own work with Intermittent Fasting on his site PrecisionNutrition.com.

RonSwanson66

my trainer told me to "drink it within 30 minutes or you are wasting your workout."

Fire him.

cristaine

My personal opinion, just as a thinking human being, not a pro (disclaimer for any internet ragers out there lol) is that for the regular person, doing normal workouts and not massive endurance exercise or strength training (and eating) for extreme results is that it isn't all THAT important at the end of the day. But: Is it optimal? Science seems to say so (at the moment anyway....) at least for optimal muscle growth. Sure, it may be better, but will it completely *negate* your results as long as you are eating the proper amount within your 24 hour period anyway? Probably not enough that a regular joe/jill would notice. I would say goal 1 is to get your intake correct and clean over a 24 hour period first. Then, if you want to get even fancier or more optimal, then make sure you get your protein post-workout.

I'm still working on the daily aspect of it. I do keep proper timing in mind though if I can schedule my life/calories that way. Note: It is probably also true that the more of an athlete you are and the more you are doing that break down muscle tissue, the more efficient your body is likely at doing that and then timing may well be more important than to a straight beginner or intermediate just attempting to improve their health. Similarly the elderly have shown to do better having a good majority of their protein at one time.... humans are so variable, it would make sense that there would also be variables on what is best for which type of athlete and level of punishment the body is enduring during training.

Just my opinion though. I could be wrong. I just try to take all the info out there and make it workable for me at the end of the day, which for me is hard enough lol

jcmartin0313

Here is a different study which discusses protein supplementation during and after exercise. This is aimed at endurance athletes, however.

http://www.gssiweb.com/Article_Detail.aspx?articleID=719

jcmartin0313

Bump