Who's the crazy one?
Sepheara
Posts: 208 Member
Hey All, I seem to be at an impasse with my doctor, so I would like to ask the MFP Community. I understand that my doctor is probably right but I would just like to hear what other people have to say.
Before I continue on, my doctor is not specialized in nutrition or weight loss, he is a family practice general practitioner.
I used to see him rarely, just for my perscriptions and injections, so this was relaly the first time we had a lengthy conversation.
I went to him concerned about my weight loss, my scale has been stalled for several months (after a 10lb gain).
I basicly told him I was experiencing an inconsistency with my sleep (sometimes I sleep too much and sometimes I sleep too litle) and that I never feel rested when I wake up, that I have low energy and depression, in addition to the stalled weight loss.
I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
I then went on to explain That I walk over 5000 steps a day (sometimes closer to 10k), that I cut out ALL soda from my diet,
that we stopped eating out every night, that I joined a gym and go three times a week. That i weigh all my food and drinks on a scale, and that I log all my food in a journal. And I was concerned that I wasn't losing weight after doing doing all these things for over a month. I also took a hand figured copy of my BMR, and exported excel sheets of data from my bodymedia armband (it's like a fitbit). He told me I wasn't losing weight because I was gullible and misinformed.
He said that the formulas for calculating BMR are outdated an inaccurate. He claimed that are a major marketing tool and that people are so diverse that BMR estimates are just wild guesses( mine was something like 2800). He then told me that since I was eating 22-2400 calories a day and not losing weight my BMR (At 5'10'' 350 lbs) was 1800 calories, and to just start eating 1500 a day. Also apparently it doesn't mater if fast food / soda is part of that number or not. "food is food".
He also told me that tracking calories burned for steps/exercise is a waste of time and not even to time myself, to just "get up and move and don't worry about how many cals you burn or what the muscle group is, just move"
But when I told him I elliptical 3 times a week and then jog/run once or twice he got upset and told me not to do activities like that because I'll injure myself, and that weight lifteing at my weight is dangerous because of bad form, so I'm not sure what he expects me to do. When I asked he said "just move!".
I mean he eventually drifted in to trying to explain calorie burn. He picked a box up off his desk and said "it doesn't take a lot of energy to move this box, but if it was heavy it would take more effort. You are going to burn more calories taking the stairs the an average person because you are heavier" but when I asked if since I was burning more calories then an average person why he wanted me to eat 1500 calories only he just kept talking about this stupid box.
at the end of our apt he raised my thyroid meds, and told me to come back in a month.
Am I crazy for trrying to eat 1500 a day at my size/activity level? because I feel crazy, headache and stomach cramps, and really cold, or is he crazy just because he's crazy?
Additional details,
5'10''
350 lbs
female
23 years old
lightly active
underactive thyroid (40mcg synthroid)
previously depo provera, but now ortho evra. didn't gain weight from the shot (already had most of it when I started) but still think problem may be hormonal. DO NOT WANT AN IUD.
Before I continue on, my doctor is not specialized in nutrition or weight loss, he is a family practice general practitioner.
I used to see him rarely, just for my perscriptions and injections, so this was relaly the first time we had a lengthy conversation.
I went to him concerned about my weight loss, my scale has been stalled for several months (after a 10lb gain).
I basicly told him I was experiencing an inconsistency with my sleep (sometimes I sleep too much and sometimes I sleep too litle) and that I never feel rested when I wake up, that I have low energy and depression, in addition to the stalled weight loss.
I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
I then went on to explain That I walk over 5000 steps a day (sometimes closer to 10k), that I cut out ALL soda from my diet,
that we stopped eating out every night, that I joined a gym and go three times a week. That i weigh all my food and drinks on a scale, and that I log all my food in a journal. And I was concerned that I wasn't losing weight after doing doing all these things for over a month. I also took a hand figured copy of my BMR, and exported excel sheets of data from my bodymedia armband (it's like a fitbit). He told me I wasn't losing weight because I was gullible and misinformed.
He said that the formulas for calculating BMR are outdated an inaccurate. He claimed that are a major marketing tool and that people are so diverse that BMR estimates are just wild guesses( mine was something like 2800). He then told me that since I was eating 22-2400 calories a day and not losing weight my BMR (At 5'10'' 350 lbs) was 1800 calories, and to just start eating 1500 a day. Also apparently it doesn't mater if fast food / soda is part of that number or not. "food is food".
He also told me that tracking calories burned for steps/exercise is a waste of time and not even to time myself, to just "get up and move and don't worry about how many cals you burn or what the muscle group is, just move"
But when I told him I elliptical 3 times a week and then jog/run once or twice he got upset and told me not to do activities like that because I'll injure myself, and that weight lifteing at my weight is dangerous because of bad form, so I'm not sure what he expects me to do. When I asked he said "just move!".
I mean he eventually drifted in to trying to explain calorie burn. He picked a box up off his desk and said "it doesn't take a lot of energy to move this box, but if it was heavy it would take more effort. You are going to burn more calories taking the stairs the an average person because you are heavier" but when I asked if since I was burning more calories then an average person why he wanted me to eat 1500 calories only he just kept talking about this stupid box.
at the end of our apt he raised my thyroid meds, and told me to come back in a month.
Am I crazy for trrying to eat 1500 a day at my size/activity level? because I feel crazy, headache and stomach cramps, and really cold, or is he crazy just because he's crazy?
Additional details,
5'10''
350 lbs
female
23 years old
lightly active
underactive thyroid (40mcg synthroid)
previously depo provera, but now ortho evra. didn't gain weight from the shot (already had most of it when I started) but still think problem may be hormonal. DO NOT WANT AN IUD.
0
Replies
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I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor but your doctor sounds like a jerk. He should tell you what type of moving he wants you to do. "Just move!" isn't good enough. I personally don't think you're eating enough. If you burn more calories because you're heavier than you should be eating a little more in my opinion. Again, I'm no expert.0
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I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor but your doctor sounds like a jerk.
I agree. From what you have told us, I would go seek a second opinion. He doesn't sound helpful at all!0 -
Honestly 2800 seems high for a BMR. I plugged your information into two different online BMR calculators and they both came back with about 2400. Have you tried just putting your information into MFP and seeing what numbers it comes up with? My guess is your BMR is lower than you think, maybe not 1800, but lower.
I don't have much experience with thyroid medications, but that might be the root of the problem. I really don't know. My suggestion would be, since what you're doing isn't working for you, that you cut back on your calories (not to 1500 just yet though), and don't eat back your exercise calories. Unless your thyroid is seriously screwing up your metabolism then eating a bit less should work.
I don't think I was much help, so maybe someone can offer you better information, and good luck.0 -
I would fire his *kitten* and get a new doctor!!!0
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You should never eat below your BMR. I don't know why your doctor is suggesting that. Many of the things he said are absolutely ridiculous. I'm not a doctor either but that sounds crazy to me.0
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If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:0 -
I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil and having trouble with weight is one of the most common side effects of that shot. I could go into more details about the rest of the side effects (including early menopause) but since weight is your main concern right now, that's enough of a reason to get off of it. And don't get Mirena because it has the same hormone and while it's less common for Mirena to affect weight, it can and does in some people.0 -
TBH, I'm inclined to side with him. The number you're eating does sound high to me, and no, the type of calories consumed does not matter, but you'll probably feel better if you eat healthier food in general. Give 1500-1800 a chance. Tons of people eat below their BMR and don't have any negative side effects.0
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I would get a second opinion. He sounds woefully misinformed. Good luck.0
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Having a hypothyroid can definately cause all those problems your talking about... maybe get that adjusted and on the right strength of synthroid and then worry about the weight coming off. It seems like you are doing everything right, some things are just out of our control unfortunately.0
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I would get a second opinion, possibly from someone that specializes in weight loss. Perhaps you'll find that this doctor was right... but hopefully you'll get usable information from someone who is less of a jerk about it.0
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I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor but your doctor sounds like a jerk.
I agree. From what you have told us, I would go seek a second opinion. He doesn't sound helpful at all!
I agree- at the very least he should have referred you to a nutritionist for assistance in reexamining your calorie needs and dietary choices.
Sounds to me like you have made some great changes on your own- good for you!!0 -
One thing to say...second opinion!0
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No expert here at all but I would say everyone I know who has thyroid issues ( I know quite a few people with it) have trouble losing weight. Also PCP's have no knowledge about health and nutrition, they aren't trained in it so he either learned his info on his own or from some other quack....I would not eat 1500 calories though that seems really low. Maybe something in between. Good Luck!!!0
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I would probably ask for a referral to a woman's health clinic to discuss hormones, they were a big part of my weightloss journey. I also would get better control of my thyroid, it can effect the cold, weakness, etc. And probably meet with a dietician as well. I had a dr tell me, when I was about 40lbs overweight, that its just what happened with age and women and not worry about it - I was worried and sought my own information out.0
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2800 isn't high. My BMR when I was 373 pounds was 3000.
Eating below BMR is fine when at 350 pounds. As weight decreases, eating nearer to BMR is preferable.0 -
You should never eat below your BMR. I don't know why your doctor is suggesting that. Many of the things he said are absolutely ridiculous. I'm not a doctor either but that sounds crazy to me.
He didn't say to eat below her BMR, he said her BMR isn't as high as she thinks it is. I'm inclined to agree, 2800 just seems too high. I'm a 5'10" male and at my heaviest (275) my BMR was only around 2300.0 -
Also, I plugged in your details to a few calculators and got a number around 2400 for your BMR. I definitely think you're eating too much. That isnt meant to be mean or anything, but if your current eating plan isnt working you need to change it up.0
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Hi there,
I have an underactive thyroid gland too and was on levothyroxine for years which wrecked my body. have recently switched to armour thyroid and feel amazing on it!
I gained a ton of weight on my previous meds and felt so miserable because no matter how much I dieted or exercised the weight would not come off.
You should think about switching to armour....
I could NOT even lose 1lb while on the levothyroxine no matter how hard I tried
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If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
This.0 -
Well...no expert here...but seems to me if you are questioning your doctor's advice, you aren't all that comfortable with him and it may be a good idea to get hold of a different doctor or a nutricianist for guidance.0
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One other thing with the sleep -- have you had a sleep study done? At your weight, sleep apnea is a very common disorder that could cause the problems you've described.
Bottom line, I agree with everyone who said to get a second opinion. And when you do, mention the things that have been mentioned here.0 -
Can you get a referral to see a nutritionist? Then you don't even have to fire your doctor, you'll just have someone else qualified helping you, too.0
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I know this isn't what you want to hear but I tend to agree with most of what he said. And doctors do of course understand how weight loss and nutrition fundamentally work. I think he wants you to increase your N.E.A.T. (google it), not focus on killing yourself on a cardio machine and adding/eating back. That's what's with the 'just move more'. Your BodyMedia can confirm for you that if you do just get up and walk around say 10-15 mins. of most waking hours, you burn much more overall than doing an hour run or on the elliptical. And it feels like less and you're less prone to injure yourself.
Broken record alert: There is no medical reason to not eat below your BMR.0 -
1. Drink a ton of water
2. Calorie cycle- do a few days of lower, then one or two higher, then back down again
3. Vary your diet-change it up.....try some spicier things and cut out refined sugars, processed meat, and starchy carbs.
4. Cardio and strength are good....keep at 'em-vary your cardio though....try some circuit training so your body doesnt get sued to doing the same routine.
5. HIIT-High intensity Interval Training-do bursts of higher intensity workouts....while you're on the elliptical, for every 5 minutes or so, do 1 minute of higher intensity.
6. Eat high fiber, high protein...lots of veggies.
7. Be patient0 -
I would plug your info into MFP and see what it says and go from there. I think what you are eating is a bit high calorie wise. I would maybe cut back to 1800 cals and go from there. If you still arent losing maybe cut back more. Because of your thyroid issues unfortunately you might have to cut back cals more then most people . I weighed 287 when I first started and have ate 1260 cals since starting not eating back exercise cals. I also have thyroid issues along with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. If you eat the right foods, foods that are filling it really isnt as hard as it sounds. Good Luck . You can do it......0
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I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
"Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil"
I'm agreeing with this. I too was once on that medication and experienced extreme weight gain. Like 30lbs in one year!!! THEN after I quit taking it, I never got my menstrual cylce back and ended up developing PCOS. This is a personal question ... but do you have a regular menses??
~ Anyways ~ Knowing what I know now ... I feel much better if I eat more like a diabetic (low sugar & high protein and fiber)
Sorry, this might not answer your question on how much you should be eating ... but maybe its something to think about regarding using that awful medicine.0 -
Please, please, please find a new doctor. He is so ill informed it's sick. I've been fighting thyroid for a long time and you have classic symptoms. Please find a doc that's informed as to the new parameters for thyroid blood hormones. You need to be eating more.0
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I'd be selective is who's advise you follow on this board. Most of us, including myself would not be qualified to provide answer. Go see a weight loss expert.
Now that being said, here is my 2 cents:
Try 1,800 cal.
Follow his advise and just move (either at the gym or elsewhere or everywhere)
Have you had yourself checked for sleep Apnea? - I would if I were u.0 -
Just reading your letter made me sad. I would say you have classic sleep apnea! I think you need to demand a sleep study test and get treated for that before you do anything else. Also, have you looked to see if your gym offers water aerobics of any sort? I swear I can work for a solid hour doing movements I couldn't do on dry land! I work up a sweat and have sore muscles when I am done! My goal is to go 5 times a week! I am here for you! Let's encourage each other!0
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