Who's the crazy one?
Replies
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I think you need to find a new doctor. I'm sure he knows his medical stuff, but I don't think he knows his people stuff. You went to him for help and he sure didn't give you any.
Like others have said, I'm no doctor, but even I know that "food is food" is a load of hooey! I know how I feel after I eat fast food, and it is not good! I feel sluggish and weighed down. How can I exercise after that? If I eat good, healthy foods, I feel much better and have more energy.
As for exercise: Just move? yeah, I'll roll over in my sleep, is that moving? I don't think so. I know I need to do cardio to get my heart rate up just to burn calories, fat, etc. And I need to do strength training to be strong enough to keep my body moving during cardio. And as for injuries, a person can hurt themselves just walking.
bottom line is: you know your body better than anyone, and if something isn't right, then it isn't right. Get a 2nd opinion.0 -
If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
I know you followed this up with seeking a second opinion (which I agree the OP should do), but this might be the most reckless statement anyone can follow when it comes to medicine. Doctors are not all created equal, and doctors quite frequently are blowhards who give advice as if they are specialists in a field they took one class on in med school. You wouldn't go to a cardiologist for your gall bladder, so listening to a GP who doesn't necessarily have any advanced knowledge in nutrition or fitness isn't wise either.
The best advice I was ever given when it came to dealing with medical issues was be a strong advocate for yourself, because no one else will be. If you believe your doctor isn't hearing you, or is dismissing your concerns, find a new doctor. Plain and simple. It can sometimes truly be the difference between life and death.0 -
Excellent thought about the sleep apnea. People with sleep apnea can sleep for hours and never rest because they wake up many times a night that they don't remember. It's very sleep related.
You have a lot of weight to lose and you're young. Treat yourself. Go to a dietician or nutritionist and get a good workup from a professional. Your doctor can give you a referral. Often if you have health insurance they will pay for it because it saves them money in the long run.
It will make you feel better, it will keep you healthier, and it may save your life.
In the mean time, if you feel that bad following your doctor's advice, don't do it. Things that make you feel that bad are not good for you.0 -
Regarding the sleep issue, when I weighed over 300lbs, I had the beginning signs of sleep apnea. I never felt rested, since I lost weight all signs of sleep apnea are gone and I do sleep better. But, I think if you are not happy, get a second opinion from another MD.0
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I think you need to find a new doctor. I'm sure he knows his medical stuff, but I don't think he knows his people stuff. You went to him for help and he sure didn't give you any.
Like others have said, I'm no doctor, but even I know that "food is food" is a load of hooey! I know how I feel after I eat fast food, and it is not good! I feel sluggish and weighed down. How can I exercise after that? If I eat good, healthy foods, I feel much better and have more energy.
As for exercise: Just move? yeah, I'll roll over in my sleep, is that moving? I don't think so. I know I need to do cardio to get my heart rate up just to burn calories, fat, etc. And I need to do strength training to be strong enough to keep my body moving during cardio. And as for injuries, a person can hurt themselves just walking.
bottom line is: you know your body better than anyone, and if something isn't right, then it isn't right. Get a 2nd opinion.
How you "feel" does not affect how calories work. When he said "calories are calories", i'm pretty sure he meant she could eat x amount of burgers or x amount of healthy food and lose or gain the same amount of weight.0 -
I agree 100%. I know that my experience is not everyone's, but I gained weight and lost my hair on it. And he shouldn't be arguing about birth control. If he is disagreeing with you on blood pressure or thyroid medicine that there could be good reasons for you to be on specific drugs than that makes some sense. But why fight someone to go on a specific birth control. There are a lot of choices out there.
I can't speak to BMR at all, but your doctor should be respectful and helpful. Saying, Just Move is neither.
Time for a new dr.0 -
I basicly told him I was experiencing an inconsistency with my sleep (sometimes I sleep too much and sometimes I sleep too litle) and that I never feel rested when I wake up, that I have low energy and depression, in addition to the stalled weight loss.
Also apparently it doesn't mater if fast food / soda is part of that number or not. "food is food".
He also told me that tracking calories burned for steps/exercise is a waste of time and not even to time myself, to just "get up and move and don't worry about how many cals you burn or what the muscle group is, just move"
But when I told him I elliptical 3 times a week and then jog/run once or twice he got upset and told me not to do activities like that because I'll injure myself, and that weight lifteing at my weight is dangerous because of bad form, so I'm not sure what he expects me to do. When I asked he said "just move!".
Additional details,
5'10''
350 lbs
female
23 years old
lightly active
underactive thyroid (40mcg synthroid)
OK- I quoted everything I think is very pertinent.
You need consistent sleep for muscle repair and general well being. I personally wouldn't think that was hormonal either. The "food is food" comment was just him being *kitten*. In theory- yeah, when you have that much weight to lose, it is a matter of calories in calories out to just get the process started, but he didn't need to be an *kitten*. And in the beginning, you do need to just move, and get to a weight where you aren't getting in the way of yourself to do something in the correct and healthy manner. Once again, he was being an *kitten* with his delivery, but I think what he really meant was "Focus on one thing at a time. Lets get the relationship with food down pat, and then we can worry about jogging etc." Quite frankly, at that weight, you COULD hurt yourself. I have 2 inches on you and you have 150 pds on me. And I just started feeling comfortable jogging without hurting my knees. I'm not trying to be an *kitten*, just honest. And you have an under active thyroid. Huge factor.
Start by trusting MFP for a little bit. That is the beginning. Go for a walk, keep moving your body. Don't hurt yourself. Breath. Give it time.
Oh, and get an ACTUAL second opinion from a doctor or nutritionist
Best of Luck! 0 -
If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
While I do agree that she should seek another physician, she specifically prefaced that hers wasn't an expert in nutrition or fitness. If I were you, OP, I would seek the opinion of a trained nutritionist, dietician and possibly even a personal trainer to get the information you need to get the proper diet, caloric intake and workout routine.
Him arguing with you when you wanted to stop taking Depo is ridiculous too, you can make choices about your body too and if you don't want to take that horomonal injection anymore he shouldn't argue with you about it.0 -
I am 315lbs and mfp has me eating 1600 cals a day. Now when I calculate my BMR from any formula it is way up over 2000. Many months on mfp I would eat 1600 c plus my excersise cals back and didn't drop 1 lb. So now I eat around 1500 and do not eat my excersise cals back and I dropped 7 lbs in one month. I believe that since we are bigger we can go below are brm and be okay. just drop your cals a little every week until the scale starts moving..
My beleif is that counting steps is ok but it is not the best becasue it does not factor in effort. Take the number that your armband gives you. I have the same one and that is the only thing that I look at.0 -
I agree he sounds like a jerk. That being said, some of it makes sense.
-if you want to log your steps, thats cool, but I would not count every step you make as exercise. This is misleading. Although BMR shows you a number that would be what you burned in bed, that doesn't make every step you take exercise you would literally consider "exercise" calories.
-Just move is actually great advice, don't over think it. Sounds like he did a poor job explaining what he meant, but I think he may have been trying to explain every movement isn't "exercise". Move as much as possible. Take the stairs instead of the elevator, make multiple trips when you have things to carry from one room to another, pace the floor when you are on the phone, get up on commercials and walk across the house. Just always be in an active mindset, and stay moving. It adds up. Again, his explanation is lacking!
-Do NOT stop the elliptical! DO be careful with jogging. The extra weight is a factor that could lead to injury, so ease in and be cautious. An injury would set you much farther back than starting slowly will. (again, he did not explain that well!)
-1500-1600 hundred calories is reasonable, choose the foods that allow you to eat the most for your calorie buck! I eat 1500 calories a day, and I eat a ton of food. If you don't feel well eating that amount, bump it up a little, but remember this will determine how steady your weight loss is. If you are stalling, you have to change things. You are eating too many calories, and considering regular basic human movement as calories burned.0 -
I basicly told him I was experiencing an inconsistency with my sleep (sometimes I sleep too much and sometimes I sleep too litle) and that I never feel rested when I wake up, that I have low energy and depression, in addition to the stalled weight loss.
Also apparently it doesn't mater if fast food / soda is part of that number or not. "food is food".
He also told me that tracking calories burned for steps/exercise is a waste of time and not even to time myself, to just "get up and move and don't worry about how many cals you burn or what the muscle group is, just move"
But when I told him I elliptical 3 times a week and then jog/run once or twice he got upset and told me not to do activities like that because I'll injure myself, and that weight lifteing at my weight is dangerous because of bad form, so I'm not sure what he expects me to do. When I asked he said "just move!".
Additional details,
5'10''
350 lbs
female
23 years old
lightly active
underactive thyroid (40mcg synthroid)
OK- I quoted everything I think is very pertinent.
You need consistent sleep for muscle repair and general well being. I personally wouldn't think that was hormonal either. The "food is food" comment was just him being *kitten*. In theory- yeah, when you have that much weight to lose, it is a matter of calories in calories out to just get the process started, but he didn't need to be an *kitten*. And in the beginning, you do need to just move, and get to a weight where you aren't getting in the way of yourself to do something in the correct and healthy manner. Once again, he was being an *kitten* with his delivery, but I think what he really meant was "Focus on one thing at a time. Lets get the relationship with food down pat, and then we can worry about jogging etc." Quite frankly, at that weight, you COULD hurt yourself. I have 2 inches on you and you have 150 pds on me. And I just started feeling comfortable jogging without hurting my knees. I'm not trying to be an *kitten*, just honest. And you have an under active thyroid. Huge factor.
Start by trusting MFP for a little bit. That is the beginning. Go for a walk, keep moving your body. Don't hurt yourself. Breath. Give it time.
Oh, and get an ACTUAL second opinion from a doctor or nutritionist Best of Luck!
The elliptical is what I used before I was in good enough shape to go jogging. It's much lower impact.0 -
I don't think MFP will set your calories below your BMR unless you force it too. I know it adjusted my weight loss per week to keep me at my BMR until I forced it to recalculate. Am I wrong about that?0
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I'm not going to judge the doctor after only hearing one side of the story, but I don't see that he said anything that was hugely crazy. I mean, essentially he said:
1. You aren't losing weight because you are eating too much. You need a calorie defecit to lose weight -- he recommended you eat 1500 calories. Maybe that's too low; I don't know. Did you tell him you felt sick at that number? His point is that your eating 2200-2400 isn't working -- you need to decrease.
2. You lose weight via a calorie defecit, and it doesn't matter if you eat soda and fast food as long as you keep this defecit.
3. He wants you to get moving, but is concerned you might injure yourself by doing what you are doing now. I think this is a valid concern at your current weight. His box example is trying to tell you that by doing almost anything you will be burning calories which will help you lose weight. From what you've said, he wants you to worry less about exactly how many steps you are taking and how many calories you are burning and more about just moving more.
If you disagree with him, or don't like his manner, then go ahead and find a new doctor or get a second opinion. In fact, you should, because you obviously already feel that he doesn't know what he is talking about, and that is never good in a doctor/patient relationship. But, I really don't see that anything he said is that crazy. Of course, I could be wrong since I'm not a doctor, nutritionist, or dietician either.0 -
My doctor told me the same thing. I'm 28, 362 lbs, and eating 1300-1500 cals a day. I walk for 15-30 minutes 5 days a week, and recently added 2 days of 1 hr water aerobic classes each week. I've lost 71 lbs since September 2011. My doctor said at this point, walking is all I should be doing to lose weight. I have a bad knee, so there are some things I physically can't do. My doctor also said to not eat back exercise calories unless I burn more than 400 in one day. I am monitored with monthly check ins and bloodwork, and so far I've been able to stop taking 2 medications.0
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First of all, you need to find yourself a new general practitioner. The interaction you described proves that this medical "professional" has horrific bedside manner. Moreover, he seems very negative. He told you a lot about what you shouldn't do but not much about what you should do.
I noticed you mentioned that you take medication for a hypothyroid. Is your condition monitored by your general practitioner or an endocrinologist? Your condition really needs to be carefully monitored by a compassionate endocrinologist, as he/she is better versed than a general practitioner in the particulars and new findings regarding hormones. Your constant tiredness, inability to feel alert when rising from sleep, and the lack of weight loss despite genuine effort suggest that you may need a higher dose of medication. Recent research has shown that a young woman's TSH level should be 1.0 and that anything 2.5 or higher indicates unresolved hypothyroid. Either way, a good endocrinologist will see the goal of treatment as finding the dose that alleviates your symptoms and lowers your TSH level to 1.0 - 2.0. IMPORTANT NOTE: I offer this advice as someone recently diagnosed with and being treated for hypothyroid; I am not a doctor. Moreover, since every person is unique, acceptable hormone levels vary from person to person. I offer this information for informational purposes only and to recommend that you consult with an endocrinologist to confirm or rule out the hypothyroid or other hormones as the cause of your issues.
Regarding caloric intake, I highly recommend that you let MyFitnessPal calculate the "magic number" for you or you consult a nutritionist to help you with that task. I hate to agree with your horrible general practitioner, but a caloric intake of 1500 calories a day sounds reasonable; I currently weigh 230 lbs and consume 1280 calories a day. Some people will say that it is not enough, but it works for me. Play with the caloric intake and find the magic number where you are shedding pounds but not feeling hungry constantly.
As for exercise, do whatever feels comfortable for you. Obviously, you want to make sure that your exercise routine doesn't overly stress your joints, but you'd feel it in your joints if that was the case. Again, if you are concerned, a nutritionist or trainer would be a better source of information than the general practitioner in this matter. If you are really concerned, try aqua aerobics because it allows you to lift the weights while taking pressure off the joints.
Good luck and make sure to get opinions from compassionate specialists and not your jerky general practitioner!0 -
I can't say whether his advice is right or wrong, but I definitely think that even if everything he said is right, you have the right to go to a medical professional that isn't a ****head about explaining things to you. I hate going to doctors that are jerks...part of being a medical professional is the PROFESSIONAL part and how you treat people and give advice. So I'd seek out a second opinion and maybe see a weight loss specialist.
Also, I have heard a lot of bad things about the depo shot. I tried it for 3 months, and decided to go back to the pill because I was honestly scared about all the terrible things I'd heard (extreme weight gain, months-long and super heavy periods when quitting the shot, etc. etc.) and I didn't want to be on it long enough for those things to start happening to me. There are a lot of birth control options besides the shot and an IUD. I have been on ortho-tricyclen for years (with the exception of those 3 months on depo) and I have never had any problems or side effects.0 -
These are the things I would do if I were you.
1. Get an HRM. (Heart Rate Monitor). The Polar ft4 is easy to program and use, is reasonably priced and accurate. It measures effort (your HR)...not what a machine thinks it the average persons cals burned for your weight" That way you can watch your heart rate so you dont over-do or under-do. I really think its the safest way to start out for someone like you.
2. Cut your calories down...2800 is a lot. I can understand eating that amount if you go to the gym and burn 800+ HRM calories a day but not for someone who is just starting out. I started out on a 2000 calorie a day diet and it worked great for me.
3. The type of food you eat is important. I would love to see your diary. I am so proud of you for cutting the soda and take out but there are many types of food at home that are just as bad if not worse. If your carb loading, fat loading or eating heaps of sugar...well, that will do it.
4. Exercise. Honestly, do whatever you feel you can do. That doctor is covering his own butt. If it burns, keep going it. If it hurts...stop. Try all the machines and if all else fails, go to aqua therapy or water aerobics. Its so awesome and super easy on your joints.
5. Make sure your drinking enough water and measuring everything...and I mean everything.
Sorry to edit0 -
Follow your Doctors advice BUT make an appointment with another physician for a 2nd opinion. Try and stick with 1500 calories like your Doctor recommended. It won't kill you, that's more than I (and many of us) get a day. Be honest with yourself...what you have been doing up until this point is not working. More than likely you were consuming too many calories...healthy calories or not, too much is still too much.
Hang in there, it takes time! And get that 2nd opinion, it will make you feel better!0 -
I don't think MFP will set your calories below your BMR unless you force it too. I know it adjusted my weight loss per week to keep me at my BMR until I forced it to recalculate. Am I wrong about that?
Yes, it will go down to a floor of 1200. For most of us, that's below BMR.
OP- I don't mean any of this meanly. Feeling a little tired and headachey, etc. is considered a normal side effect of eating at a new, lower level. It goes away. It can take a few weeks. Unfortunately it helps a lot to have the patience to get past it if you believe your new lower calorie level is the healthy route for your long term goals and health. That's sort of impossible to do if you believe everything you read here and not your doctor, though. Which is why I rant and rail.0 -
I can't say your doctor has the best tactics, but it does seem you are overeating still. 2400 calories seems to be a lot for somebody who isn't that active. To lose weight I have to stay around1800-1900 calories a day and I started out at 300lbs. It seems you should be eating around that range, and eat only a small portion of your exercise calories back until you have reached a much smaller weight. What a lot of the skinnier people who don't have a lot to lose forget is that people our size have a lot of extra fat on us that our bodies will burn before it even comes close to reaching any sort of starvation mode. You should be able to get plent of nutrition from that many calories as well. Just remember to eat a lot of protein, and stay away from crappy carbs.0
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I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil and having trouble with weight is one of the most common side effects of that shot. I could go into more details about the rest of the side effects (including early menopause) but since weight is your main concern right now, that's enough of a reason to get off of it. And don't get Mirena because it has the same hormone and while it's less common for Mirena to affect weight, it can and does in some people.
Uh... I've been on the Depo shot for a year now and I'm losing weight just fine. No side effects either. I'm not saying the Depo shot doesn't *kitten* some people up, but the same stuff that messes some up, works just fine with others so I wouldn't be going around calling anything the devil until you have a survey where 100% of those who were on something say it's horrible and no those random websites with a comment section don't count.0 -
When reading your post the first thing that came to mind is SLEEP APNEA. It can stall the weight loss process and cause all sorts of other disorders. I would highly advise you get this checked out. As undiagnosed sleep apnea can lead to weight gain, stroke, depression, diabetes, high blood pressure, memory problems and it can get children miss-diagnosed as ADHD and much more.......
It is not always a disease of the overweight, (I have seen it in young skinny teenagers) it can be caused by enlarged tonsils and adnoids, and may be because of an inherited small jaw or large tongue and soft palate.
This may not be you, but it might be worth looking into.0 -
I'm definitely not a doctor, but I have strong opinions on the depo shot.. I porked on 20 pounds after that thing, as well as everyone else I know that took it. Go to your ob/gyn for your b/c. There are MANY other b/c options out there now that don't cause the weight gain.
Number 2.. second opinion from a different primary doctor.. he sounds like a *kitten*.
Number 3.. ask for a referral to a nutritionist
You are on your way!0 -
If you are under the care of a physician, do what he says - period!
And if you need another opinion, seek out another Dr - don't troll MFP for somebody to agree with you.
Sounds like you just want to eat more.
Join the club.
Either take your doctor's advice, or fire him and seek medical services elsewhere.
Good Luck:flowerforyou:
I agree that if you're under the doctor care, do what he says and if you need another opinion seek another doctor.
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE that you sound like you "just want to eat more". Completely disagree with that.
You asked for opinions so I'll give mine. I agree that it takes more to move something heavy. It's a workout for me to mow but when I was lighter it was easier. If you are eating too few calories you're body will go into starvation mode and you won't lose....and at 1500 I think that would happen. Maybe try a few other BMR's to get a good average for you.
I would: increase plain water, increase fiber, maybe stick around 1900 calories - and find a new doctor. His "bedside manner" really sucks.
Good luck~!0 -
I don't think your doctor is crazy or being a jerk. The box analogy is a very good analogy. It is going to take more work to move 350lbs than it is to move 150lbs. This is just science. So just you moving your frame is going to burn more calories than someone who weighs less.
Jogging is a bad idea at that size. Your body's joints are not equipped to handle an over abundance of weight like that. If you lift or jog on legs that are not equipped with the muscles to handle that weight, you will hurt yourself. Walking for an hour a day and keeping a calorie deficit will probably help you a great deal more than trying to jog or lift weights.
Your doctor is equipped to give you advice on weight and nutrition. What he was saying is valid, the calories are calories thing is true, but if you are eating big portions, or lying to yourself, or omitting calories it is not going to work. You have to keep an accurate count of everything you put into your body.
At the end of the day, in my opinion it seems as if you think your doctor is being a jerk or mean because he didn't say what you wanted to hear. At the size and age you are, at some point you are going to have to accept some tough love from your doctor, or get real with yourself. You have an enormous journey ahead of you if you want to get healthy. Good luck.0 -
I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil and having trouble with weight is one of the most common side effects of that shot. I could go into more details about the rest of the side effects (including early menopause) but since weight is your main concern right now, that's enough of a reason to get off of it. And don't get Mirena because it has the same hormone and while it's less common for Mirena to affect weight, it can and does in some people.
Uh... I've been on the Depo shot for a year now and I'm losing weight just fine. No side effects either. I'm not saying the Depo shot doesn't *kitten* some people up, but the same stuff that messes some up, works just fine with others so I wouldn't be going around calling anything the devil until you have a survey where 100% of those who were on something say it's horrible and no those random websites with a comment section don't count.
40% of people on Depo have serious side effects. That leaves 60% who don't.
That said, I know a lot of people -- A LOT -- who gained a ton of weight on that shot and couldn't lose it and it is a very common, well-known side effect.
That said, my best friend was on Depo for a while. She actually lost weight and couldn't gain if she tried. She also had lumps in her breasts -- they stopped removing them after the first three were benign, severe bone loss, went into menopause at 28 years old (they caught it just in time to reverse it) and many, many, many other problems directly connected to Depo.
And that is not an extensive list of what it does to women's bodies.
And my OB refuses to even prescribe it.0 -
^^my thoughts exactly. second opinion.Well...no expert here...but seems to me if you are questioning your doctor's advice, you aren't all that comfortable with him and it may be a good idea to get hold of a different doctor or a nutritionist for guidance.0 -
I'm only going to comment on one thing in your post:I wanted off the depo provera shot but he argued with me claiming the symptoms were not hormonal.
Get a new doctor. That shot is the devil and having trouble with weight is one of the most common side effects of that shot. I could go into more details about the rest of the side effects (including early menopause) but since weight is your main concern right now, that's enough of a reason to get off of it. And don't get Mirena because it has the same hormone and while it's less common for Mirena to affect weight, it can and does in some people.
Agreed. That shot was horrid to me... weight gain and depression resulted. Never again.0 -
I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor but your doctor sounds like a jerk.
I agree. From what you have told us, I would go seek a second opinion. He doesn't sound helpful at all!
I agree with the other comments - sounds like your doc is jerk. You deserve better medical advice than "just move!" If you're comfortable walking and swimming you can definitely start there, but if you have the time/money to have a few sessions with a certified personal trainer they can help you find exercises to safely build muscle, which will really help burn fat. My advice is always set mini-goals and then reassess when you reach those goals.
Great job on cutting out the soda! Do you have access to a certified nutrition specialist (maybe your insurance provider can recommend one in-network)? It might be worth sitting down with someone who can help get your diet, calorie goals, etc in line with your current body composition and have them help you focus on how to safely lose weight. I'm not an expert, but I think 1500 calories is too low and 2800 sounds a bit high.
You can use the MFP tools to help calculate your number so you have a ballpark idea of what you have to work with based on your goals. If you need help and/or support, please feel free to add me! Good luck on your journey to a healthier you!0 -
TBH, I'm inclined to side with him. The number you're eating does sound high to me, and no, the type of calories consumed does not matter, but you'll probably feel better if you eat healthier food in general. Give 1500-1800 a chance. Tons of people eat below their BMR and don't have any negative side effects.
Her and I are about the same height. At 165 lbs I eat roughly what she does to maintain my weight. She weighs more than I did to start (not picking on you at all OP) so she could easily eat that much. At 217 pounds eating 1500 was a horrible choice for me. Everyone is different though.
When I hit a plateau I started lifting heavy weights and it really helped. With just what I read about what the doctor said I would pick a new one. Especially with his horrible birth control advice.0
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