I really need other parents opinions!

leavinglasvegas

This is totally not about health or fitness, but the stress does interfere with all that for me! I really need some other parents to tell me what you think.

Heres the story.
My daughter is 9 and just started fourth grade. She has had issues with a certain other little girl since she started at this school in the first grade. They were friends and her mom was around the school all the time. I like the mom alot. By the second grade, mom was never around and this kid was getting out of control, she is a bully. Her father, (the type of guy who had an affair with another married parent at the school and hits on all the moms and teachers) is an idiot. Plain and simple. He has been the only one around over the past few years.
At the end of second grade I had to request that my child be seperated from this kid when they did third grade class placement which her teacher was more than happy to do. Last year (3rd grade) This kid decided to play nice and be my daughters friend on the playground and at latchkey. Thank GOD my daughter and I have an open relationship. She told me that this girl was talking about things that made her uncomfortable...things that her dad does with her new step mom. :noway: You know what I mean?
Long story short, last year was a nightmare. My daughter was constantly coming home telling me that the lunchmom made her miss recess because she didn't want to play with this kid. There were accusations of "touching" on the playground which resulted in my daughter being accused and a long drawn out arguement/meeting with the teacher, principal and social worker. In the end I was able to get the social worker to agree that there really wasn't a problem with my daughter and the teacher reacted unjustly towards my daughter.
This year I immediatley had a meeting with her new teacher to let her know that we are here for education and that is all. But this kid is still bullying my daughter. She even fake cried today and told her teacher that my daughter pushed her and got some other kids to lie too. One of the kids involved admitted that she lied, but said that she would not confirm that with the teacher because she didn't want to tattle on the bully kid.
I can't take this anymore! By all means I know that my daughter is not innocent all the time, but she is good hearted and moral. She cried when I explained that the girl who admitted that she lied probably did so because she is not considered "popular" and has a low self-esteem so she did it to be accepted by this bully who apparently sets the standard for popularity. She cried because she felt sorry for HER! She just wants to have fun on the playground without having to wonder when the next attack will take place and who she can and cannot trust. And she definatley cannot trust the school staff!

I know that was long and I'm sorry. I felt like I needed as many details as possible and I edited out alot. I don't want to spend the next school year raging war with teachers, principals and lunchmoms who keep sweeping this under the rug and falling for this kids crap. I don't want to have to go at it with the father, because he really is an idiot, I dealt with him when his kid called ME to tell ME that MY daughter was a fat loser! I don't want to rip my kid out of school and teach her that its ok to run away when you don't get along with someone. (I'm tempted to put her in another school, but leary of all public schools now, especially around here. I think it all has to do with the parents and unfortunately I have seen some pretty bad stuff around here. Drugs, drinking, fighting, promiscuity, etc...these are the parents I'm talking about BTW.) I can't afford private school and I can't afford to stay out of work to home school or pay a sitter. And I can't afford to move yet, but we will certainly be moving in the next couple years if I can ever sell this place. I really need to hear from some other parents. I don't even know if I am thinking rationally anymore. I am scared to send my daughter to school out of the fear that she is learning that there are more bad peole then good. She hardly has any friends and that just kills me inside! I try to keep her in stuff outside of school; dance, choir, church stuff....but school is where we spend our childhood, she shouldn't be afraid of it!
If you read all that, thank you. Prayers are appreciated of any denomination! And if you can offer advice, I would be so greatful! :flowerforyou:

Holly

MTGirl

If you pulled her out of that school and put her in another school, i don't think you would be teaching her that it is o.k. to run away when you can't get along with someone. I think you would help her understand that she is in a very unfair situation that that school is overlooking and sometimes you have to change your situation because you can't make any headway with the people who are supposed to be there to defend you and help you.

I was in a similar situation with my daughter and a girl who was bullying her, thankfully the school and the parents stepped up and helped me handle the situation and stopped the bullying and the girl was closely watched and punished. If it was me, I would check into some other schools in the area - not all public schools handle these kind of situations like your current school. I would consider moving her to a different school in the district, since you can't do any of the other alternatives. Or maybe check with some local private schools and see if there are any scholarships or vouchers available, or if you can do something to reduce the cost. I def. would not leave her in that situation though. Leaving a child in that kind of situation would be emotionally and mentally damaging. Good luck! Give her extra hugs :flowerforyou:

leavinglasvegas

Thank you. I am glad to know that I'm not crazy or overreacting. I feel so let down that I'm not sure sometimes if I'm seeing the whole picture clearly. I can't even imagine how she feels. I'm going to hug her right now!

guidosgal

Wow sounds like you are in our school district (no kidding) We have had issues with the school where I live too. We have been fighting them for 9 years over different issue(but the issue of a childs ediucation and the right to go to school with out being bullyed is a right for every child) First I believe you said you went to the teachers and the Principal? The chain of complaints after that is to go to you disrict office and file a personal complain against what ever staff member at the school that is letting this happen. After you file the written complaint it then gos up the chain of comand at the district (usually the head of Hiring then after meeting with that person they will take the complaint back to the principal then because it is an offical complaint the school can no longer push it under the rug. If you are unhappy with the resolution then you have the right to take the complaint to leval to (the assitant superintent) then after that the school gets a second written warning and then if you still are not happy you go to a leval 3 complaint the superintendent) The schools rarly like complaint to go this high because if they cannot control the situation you then can go to the state educational board and file a complaint there. After the first complaint is filed it is law that the school cannot retaliate against your child in any way shape or for and the must by law provide a safe educational enviroment. I would not confront the father because then it is a he said she said issue. I wish you the best of luck Holly :flowerforyou:

Wecandothis

I'm so sorry to hear of your problems. Do not give up, there is someone there - another teacher or counselor or school nurse who will be able to at least influence how things are going or tell you the truth or maybe even which administrator you should talk too.

If you honestly can get no results with the school, look into who is a member of the school board - research and go to the one that you think might be the most sympathetic to your cause.

If you keep approaching everyone humbly but with great persistance they will begin to understand that you are not going to allow this to keep going on unaddressed.

And I'm praying with you for you and your daughter - peace for you both.

Wecandothis

I just thought of something else - one of the Pastors at my church is always happy to go to bat for the kids that he has in his youth programs. Perhaps he or she would go with you to talk to the principal?

BrendaLee

Going to the parents rarely works, because parents generally take their child's side no matter what. I'm surprised that going to the teachers hasn't helped. I would talk to the teacher, and then the principle of the school, and if that didn't help, I would go to the school board. Schools are supposed to be less and less tolerant of bullying, and I would imagine someone at the school board could help solve the situation.

Make your presence known around the school if you can. In the past, I've often confronted my daughter's bullies myself- I know, not recommended, but it almost always works. I just let the bully know that I'm aware of what they're doing, and that it's not going to be tolerated.

courtney_love2001

This made me really mad and I'm not even a parent! I hope you can find someone to help you :flowerforyou: Your daughter and your family are in my prayers!

rochelle971

FYI;

A really good website for moms to vent.

http://www.mamasource.com/


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amymeenieminymo

I don't know if this will help much, because I am not a parent. But I thought maybe I could lend some advice as once being that kid that was picked on.

I had two good friends in elementary school up until the fourth grade. I was the center of their attention (though I didn't revel in it) and they would typically get into arguments because each wanted to play with me after school but they didn't particulary get along with each other.

That all changed the summer before fourth grade, they decided to be best friends ( oh the catty lives of children) and leave me out in the cold. And not just not being my friend, but declaring an all out war on me and picking on me and getting almost the whole class to call me a lovely name they made up. To this day I still don't know why, I guess some people don't need a reason to be mean.

This went on all 4th, 5th and 6th grade. My parents didn't know a whole lot because I didn't want to appear weak and tell them about it, but my dad started noticing that I faked sick quite often to stay home from school. He talked to my teacher about it, but he was basically non-confrontational and said he was waiting for me to come to him about it, nice teacher huh?

Long story short, one day I just couldn't take it anymore and I started crying on the playground. Everyone rushed over and asked what was wrong and between sobs I said why I was crying, that I just couldn't take the bullying anymore and I didn't understand why they were being so mean.

Apparently I got through to whatever heart the girls had and they never bothered me again. We were never best friends again, or friends at all, but that was the last day that they picked on me. In fact one of them contacted me on myspace a couple years ago to send their condolences when they heard that my mom had died.

I don't know if this will work on this girl, but I try to believe that everyone has some good in them. It sounds crazy but lots of people just don't realize how horrible they are behaving to someone. Why do bully's pick on people? Because they have low self esteem and they are trying to make themselves feel better. So deep down, perhaps they don't realize they are having that much of an impact on the person they are bullying because they don't view themselves as powerful as they are.

You've tried every other angle, try having your daughter approach this other girl and see if she can have any sort of serious talk with her. Have her tell her that she doesn't know what went wrong in their friendship, but she is really sad that it is over and that they can't at least get along civilly. Have her express remorse that if she did anything to upset the bully (ya never know) then she is sorry but she is really upset by how she has been treating her. Maybe this will appeal to this girls human side. If not, you tried.

So I don't know if that will help or not, but perhaps to offer you some peace of mind....bullying really hurts, and I hated school for that three years. But when it was done, I went on to enjoy jr high and high school, never super popular but always had enough friends and I would say I grew up happy and well adjusted. So don't worry too much about this scarring your daughter. Kids are resilient, and as much as it sucks, they need to learn how to deal with it because as well all know, adults can be bullys too.

Good luck!

Georg

As a teacher, parent & former school administrator, my advice (worth every penny ) is to make an appointment with her teacher. Ask what you should do & how you can help. (You still don't have to - but get his or her opinion.) The teacher might have some suggestions or at least insight into the whole dynamic of what's up with the girls.
You've already met once, now go back & see what she's observed & how it's going from her point of view. Ask how she's "handling the problems so you know how to support your daughter at home." Surely the school is doing something to intervene. Find out what it is because you all need to be working toward the same goal - your daughter's education.
When parents confront other parents, it rarely goes well. I DON'T recommend that. :ohwell:
-You want to assume that the teacher/school/admin/whatever are all aware of the problems. If not, tell them all about it.
-You want to be non-confrontational when you go.
-You want the school to back up your daughter & you want to back them up, too.
-You want to emphasize (as you did before) that you are there for education only, not theatrics & heartache.
-Tell them what you've seen & your child's side of the story. See if there's more you don't know.
-You want to acknowledge that your daughter may need help seeing how best to handle the problem, too.
-Realize that 4th grade is often a rough year for girls. They're going through lots of changes - some will be menstruating soon & that often comes with mood swings & behavior changes.
-Realize that the other girl must be suffering with her lack of popularity & family changes, but that doesn't make it okay for her to be mean.
-Stay calm & focused & factual. Your attitude will set the tone for he meeting. And ultimately help your daughter's situation.
If the teacher isn't very helpful, take the same tactics & make an appointment with the principal.
Good luck. School should be a safe place to learn.

bettersusan

I went to a private school from 4th to 8th grade. Seventh and Eighth grade a couple fo girls, one of which I was a friend to when she first transferred in and didn't have a friend, decided to to pick my me. They were completely heartless and brutal and got the whole class involved in doing the same. I hated going everyday. It seemed they lived to pick on me and the teachers were uninvolved and useless. Half the time they weren't even in the room. It got SO bad. I didn't have one friend. I begged my mother to let me go back to public school. There are issues wherever you go, but I LEARNED to be more careful and more selective in choosing friends and the new school gave me a FRESH START. There are nice kids everywhere and hopefully your daughter will FIND those nice kids, friends who stay out of trouble and who look out for each other. Then when the awful ones come along, she will hve some buddies. I think I would CHANGE schools if you are able to do so where you live. She ISN'T learning to RUN from her troubles! She hopefully has learned what type of people to avoid and will get a fresh start.

Is she involved in a youth group at church? I think that was the only way I got through those two years! I had friends there and it made SUCH a difference. I had to endure the week of school, but I had Sundays, Wednesday nights, and Monday night youth devotionals to keep me busy.

I wish you both the best. We live for our children and when they hurt, we hurt. I wish you both well.

Susan

shinybonnie

My heart goes out to you. Girls can make life hell for other little girls.

One thought I had is to see if there are volunteer opportunities at your daughter's school. There may even be something that works with your employment situation. In my town, we have "Communities in Schools." I don't know if its a gov't program or what, but adults in the community are encouraged (and their employers are encouraged) to have somewhat of a presence in the school. Maybe once a month, you go and have lunch with the class you are assigned to. Or, you go and read to the first grade. Or you volunteer at the after-school program. The benefit of this for your situation, is that (1) you get to know the paras, lunch ladies, secretaries, etc, and they will tell you what's going on in the school in general, and with your kid; (2) your kid's classmates see you around the school and begin to associate you with the school authority; and (3) your daughter knows that you are around with your ear to the ground.

When my daughter was in 3rd grade, the social aspect of school became a big problem. That year, I volunteered as cheerleader coach (I knew NOTHING about cheerleading) and once a week did the afterschool program. It didn't completely solve the problems, but I was there, I could see what my daughter was doing to aggravate the situation, the girls are always on their best behavior for "Coach Bonnie," etc...

If it's at all possible for you, I might also suggest substitute teaching at her school. That gets you in there even more. I subbed when my daughter was in Kindergarten and First grade (I felt she was too little to be away from me, so I was at the school all the time! lol)

amymeenieminymo

P.S Wannabeacullen.......I LOVE your username

mommyskis

Does your daughter have some other friends in her grade? Most often bullies succeed because by-standers are afraid to do anything. If you could maybe arrange some "playdates" or after school activities with your daughter and some other girls, perhaps they could band together on the playground. This has several advantages - the mean girl is less likely to confront your daughter if she's surrounded by friends and the friends are witnesses to what really happens. Most likely there are very few girls who actually like this mean girl. Most of her "friends" are probably just scared of her and therefore follow her. Teach your daughter and her friends how not to be a victim and support each other. Another piece of advice is to have your daughter hang out close to the recess supervisor, that way the other girl can't make stuff up. She doesn't have to be obvious, just stick within sight. 4th grade girls can be ruthless, but many of them are just so scared. When you get them talking, they realize how many of them feel the same way. My other recommendation is to document all contact with the school. Print off any emails and file them. Stay proactive. Volunteer at school any time you can. BTW - I used to teach 4th grade. If things don't improve, I don't think switching schools is giving up, you've been dealing with this for a few years already. Good luck!

iRun4wine

As a teacher, parent & former school administrator, my advice (worth every penny ) is to make an appointment with her teacher. Ask what you should do & how you can help. (You still don't have to - but get his or her opinion.) The teacher might have some suggestions or at least insight into the whole dynamic of what's up with the girls.
You've already met once, now go back & see what she's observed & how it's going from her point of view. Ask how she's "handling the problems so you know how to support your daughter at home." Surely the school is doing something to intervene. Find out what it is because you all need to be working toward the same goal - your daughter's education.
When parents confront other parents, it rarely goes well. I DON'T recommend that. :ohwell:
-You want to assume that the teacher/school/admin/whatever are all aware of the problems. If not, tell them all about it.
-You want to be non-confrontational when you go.
-You want the school to back up your daughter & you want to back them up, too.
-You want to emphasize (as you did before) that you are there for education only, not theatrics & heartache.
-Tell them what you've seen & your child's side of the story. See if there's more you don't know.
-You want to acknowledge that your daughter may need help seeing how best to handle the problem, too.
-Realize that 4th grade is often a rough year for girls. They're going through lots of changes - some will be menstruating soon & that often comes with mood swings & behavior changes.
-Realize that the other girl must be suffering with her lack of popularity & family changes, but that doesn't make it okay for her to be mean.
-Stay calm & focused & factual. Your attitude will set the tone for he meeting. And ultimately help your daughter's situation.
If the teacher isn't very helpful, take the same tactics & make an appointment with the principal.
Good luck. School should be a safe place to learn.

Glad I read through all the responses before I started typing, because I was going to say many of the same things. As a certified teacher and currently the Director of a middle school After School Program I am in regular contact with parents, administration, teachers, and the "high ups" and the pointers that Georg gave are PERFECT!

Make sure you're objective when you speak with the school- just like we're taught as school personnel. Tell the facts- things that cannot be refuted.

Good luck, and hang in there. :flowerforyou:

KatWood

I am not a parent but here is my advice:
Try one last time to make this work. Visit with the teacher, or principal or counselor. Be sure to be clear that you are there to make the situation better for everyone involved.
If that doesn't work, change schools. Ask some of your nearby friends who have childern to recommend a school or do some research on the internet. There are sites where people rank schools, elementary right up to university. People can post comments on these sites too for you to read. I don't think you would be teaching your daughter to run by switching schools. You would be teaching her that not everything is in your control and that sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away. Explain to your daughter your decision. Maybe even ask her how she feels and what she wants to do. Don't put the decision on her shoulders, but make sure she knows that her input and feelings are important. I think that unless something changes asap, leaving her in that school will be much more determental to her than taking her out of it.

Good luck. You are in my thoughts:flowerforyou:

robbienjill

I work as investigator with child protective services. It has me concerned that the other little girl tells other students what her dad does to her mom. Is he doing that in front of the child??? You may wish to speak with the social worker at the school, just so that he/she may speak with the child to make sure its not anything that is happeneing to her (the child). The behavior issue with the other child seems to be caused by something. It may be nothing at all....but I have learned in my job that you can never dismiss anything that causes concern. Just a thought... good luck:flowerforyou:

ilike2moveit

I have a teaching degree and have worked in the school system alot. Our school systems have a zero tolerance bullying program and they have a behavior program that teaches children how to deal with bullying, etc. Does your school have a program like this? (I'[m also a mother of 4 children and girls can be very catty and very difficult to deal with.) My advice is to have a meeting at school with everyone involved (principal, teachers, parents and whoever you want there) to work out a resolution that is exceptable to everyone. I was teaching first grade and two children were so bad that the principal finally implemented a rule that they were not allowed to go near each other-an absolute no contact rule- It was so bad that no other behavior modification worked. Good luck to you and your daughter.

thumper44

I work as investigator with child protective services. It has me concerned that the other little girl tells other students what her dad does to her mom. Is he doing that in front of the child??? You may wish to speak with the social worker at the school, just so that he/she may speak with the child to make sure its not anything that is happeneing to her (the child). The behavior issue with the other child seems to be caused by something. It may be nothing at all....but I have learned in my job that you can never dismiss anything that causes concern. Just a thought... good luck:flowerforyou:

I would go up the chain of commmand, teacher, principal, etc.
I'm not a parent yet, but I would think that taking care of the symptoms won't solve the real issue.

The real issue being this female bully who obviously has problems.
If you fix the situation for your daughter, which I know is what best you want for your daughter, this doesn't mean that another girl will be bullied, and this bully girl might go down the wrong road in life.

The bully repeating what her father and step mom are doing is flashing red light IMO.


I re-read your post. You mentioned that you can't talk to the father, he's an idiot etc, but at the beginning of the post you said that her mom used to be at the school all the time, and you got along with her, but you haven't seen her.

Is it possible to have a coffee with her and tell her what is going on, or see if the school can bring her in on these meetings.

I'm sure every mother would want to know, if something was happening to your daughter under yoru "ex's " roof.

You never know, but maybe the mom would fight for custody and the bully might get taken out of that school?

leavinglasvegas

I work as investigator with child protective services. It has me concerned that the other little girl tells other students what her dad does to her mom. Is he doing that in front of the child??? You may wish to speak with the social worker at the school, just so that he/she may speak with the child to make sure its not anything that is happeneing to her (the child). The behavior issue with the other child seems to be caused by something. It may be nothing at all....but I have learned in my job that you can never dismiss anything that causes concern. Just a thought... good luck:flowerforyou:

From what I understand the dad and new step mom are VERY open about sexuality and walk around naked. I have expressed these concerns to the Pincipal and social worker and they say they are aware of the families problems and have dealt with an older sibling in the past.

I totally believe that the way this girl acts is based on her torn apart family and what she witnesses at home. The social worker has spoken to her and her parents, but what came of that I do not know. I just know that her behavior has gotten worse and the principal thinks that removing her from school is too harsh. He doesn't want to damage her anymore:huh: So meanwhile, my daughter and several other girls have to endure her bullying because the principal feels sorry for her.

leavinglasvegas

Thank you all for your input. I can't really remember who said what, so I will try to repsond as best I can.

I appreciate the teaches who have weighed in. I will make one more attempt to find a resolution with them. Unfortunately, I have gone up the chain of command in the past and as a result they keep them from being placed in the same classes. This is not helping and the principal says he doesn't believe in harsh punishments. I'm starting to think he just doesn't want to deal with it. He always says that girls always have trouble getting along, but he refuses to see the magnitude of this particular situation.

Even if my daughter stays away from this girl on the playground this girl manages to infulence others to do her dirty work. It is so bad that my daughter has to spend recess in the view of lunchmoms and teachers at all times. It is ridiculous that MY daughter has to remain visible at all times to prove her innocense while the provoker is off spreading hate. The one time my daughter was out of view, this girl got 3 children to lie and say that my daughter pushed her. What actually happened was that she gave my daughter the finger then charged at her and pushed her into a wall. Rather than fight, my daughter walked away. But guess who got in trouble. After school her friend told her she was sorry for lying, but the bully told her too and she didn't want to make the bully mad at her too.

And to ttthumper: I would love to talk to the mom, but it seems as though she is gone for good. Dad is the only one around, he is the one who gets called and comes in for meetings. I'm not sure what that is about. I do know when the sex stuff began, the latchkey mom and the social worker did speak to her. I really do feel sorry for this girl and I want her to get help.

As far as appealing to her human side, my daughter tried that and she used it as more fuel to pick on her. This kid really has no fear of consequenses, obviously because she has none. What is even scarrier is the way she can manipulate an adult. The tears, the lies, all followed by a quick shift in her face to laugh at them. My daughter told me about it and I almost didn't believe it till I saw it myself. I hid around a corner and watched them in the latchkey room. It is frightening, like a psychopath in a movie. And shame on these adults for being taken by a 9 year old! If something doesn't happen to stop her, I hate to see what happens in her later years.

ilike2moveit

I work as investigator with child protective services. It has me concerned that the other little girl tells other students what her dad does to her mom. Is he doing that in front of the child??? You may wish to speak with the social worker at the school, just so that he/she may speak with the child to make sure its not anything that is happeneing to her (the child). The behavior issue with the other child seems to be caused by something. It may be nothing at all....but I have learned in my job that you can never dismiss anything that causes concern. Just a thought... good luck:flowerforyou:

Teachers are required by law, to report to CPS any signs of child abuse, etc. Dad walking around naked and the child talking about "adult recreation" would be included. I've been in the system and a foster parent long enough to know that CPS's main goal is to keep families together and to work with families through parenting classes etc. Most children that are pulled from the home are placed back in the home once the parenting plan has been completed. With the exception of serious abuse-and I hate to say it but many of those cases have been returned to the home and slipped through the cracks.

czewwhat

Change schools, the child suicide rate is alarming in her age group. Go to the superintendents office and threaten a law suit because of the inaction on the part of his staff. Change schools immediately!
Get CPS involved, naked daddy talk is an indication of worse things!

angiered

Have you tried calling a few private schools and asking about a work/study scholarship? You volunteer for the school, doing whatever they need done, in exchange for a full or partial scholarship. You might get lucky. It's always worth a shot.

leavinglasvegas

Have you tried calling a few private schools and asking about a work/study scholarship? You volunteer for the school, doing whatever they need done, in exchange for a full or partial scholarship. You might get lucky. It's always worth a shot.

I never thought of that. That is a really great idea!!! Thanks.

leavinglasvegas

Today I was informed that two boys my daughters age raped two younger girls on the playground in my community. It is less than 100 yards from my front porch.

Forget changing schools. I'm moving the heck out of this place. There seems to be a pattern around here. I am disgusted. I know those girls. So does my daughter, they have played together.:brokenheart:

Cindysunshine

I have a daughter the same age. I feel for you. We homeschool and have from day one. Your scenerio is one that I was afraid of and helped me make my decision to homeschool. Good luck . Cindy

angiered

OMGosh! That's horrible! I totally agree, time to get the hell outta dodge!

MTGirl

Wow Cullen - that is scary! Yep - I'm with you. I'd be gone. Good luck! I hope everything works out well. You are in my thoughts.

ilike2moveit

Today I was informed that two boys my daughters age raped two younger girls on the playground in my community. It is less than 100 yards from my front porch.

Forget changing schools. I'm moving the heck out of this place. There seems to be a pattern around here. I am disgusted. I know those girls. So does my daughter, they have played together.:brokenheart:

YIKES! Best of luck to you all.