can't build muscle on a calorie deficit?

Sarauk2sf

When his friends say he gained muscle, what they mean is that he got more *muscular*. When I drop weight I lose upwards of an inch off my arms, but the muscle finally showing instead of the fat makes people think my arms got a lot bigger. There's a technical difference, but who cares? I look better and I'm healthier.

The thing that bothers me is people getting too wrapped up in the technicals and get demotivated. "I cant gain muscle on a deficit so why bother strength training ". Nooooooooooooooo. Just do it. You'll get stronger. You'll look better. Just do it.

Thanks. You are absolutely right. There are soo many benefits to weightlifting even on a deficit. Maintaining muscle is number one and helps continue the weight loss. Muscle is very expensive calorie wise. Having more muscle burns more calories just being there. Since muscle burns calories all day everyday it will actually burn more than going to the gym. Not only that but posture, confidence, stamina, strength, and other health benefits have all improved from lifting heavy.

To add to the list of benefits already noted and to expand on the 'other health benefits', weight training is very beneficial to improving bone density, which is particularly important for women as they have a much higher propensity for osteoperosis.

Wonderob

I'm on a 1,000 calories per day deficit and can definitely feel muscles growing larger now from my workouts.

Firstly congratulations on your weight loss so far. I would like to share some maths that might make you change your mind.

You say that you have 100lbs to lose, so I reckon 250lbs will be a good example to use as a starting weight

A realistic body fat percentage for 250 lbs and average height would be 35% - so you would have had over 160 lbs of lean body mass (The amount of weight you carry on your body that isn't fat)

You say that you have have gained big muscles and muscle weighs more than fat per density so let's say you have gained 30 lbs of pure lean muscle - enough for you to notice there. That's your Lean body mass up to 190lbs!

That puts you at 280 lbs

Now your scales tell you that you are 33lbs lighter than you started so you weigh 217 lbs
Therefore:

You was 250 lbs at 35% body fat with 160 lbs of lean body mass

You have lost fat and gained muscle so you are now
217 lbs with 190 lbs of lean body mass

So if you had gained 30lbs of muscle and lost all your weight in fat you would now have a body fat percentage of 12%!


Even if you had retained all you original muscle you would be

217 lbs with 160 lbs of lean muscle mass
26% body fat - which is pretty good, and if your figures are anything like that example then you have done damn well and should be proud

Kara_xxx

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

amy1612

I'm on a 1,000 calories per day deficit and can definitely feel muscles growing larger now from my workouts.

no

Its a good job no-one is in my office to see me laughing right now.

Wonderob

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

Hi Kara, would you consider sharing your stats as that would indicate how much you have actually gained in muscle mass

i.e. Start weight and body fat percetage
Current weight and body fat percentage
Calorie consumption v TDEE

I'd be intested to see how it works out

dad106

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

Did you even read the post or did you just focus on that and decide to jump in?

If your picture is a recent one, that doesn't look like you have gained much muscle to me.

To OP:
You got excellent advice already.. and I have nothing more to add.

mandylooo

The problem that arises with question is that people think they want more muscle mass when it's often unnecessary- weight lifting will make you look more muscular whether you're building actual muscle mass or not. There's a few reasons:

1) Neuromuscular adaptation is when your nervous system learns to use the muscle you already have- you're able to "fire" muscle fibers that you haven't been using, which makes your muscle feel firm and makes you feel stronger. Most people interpret the muscle firmness and added strength as new muscle- its not, but does it really matter? Muscle firmness and strength are probably the results you were looking for to begin with.

Is this neuromuscular adaptation accompanied by an increase in muscle size which is not just due to water?

Matt_Wild

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

You are no doubt revealing what you had before you dieted.

I'd love for you to tell me how you build muscle (calorie excess) in a diet (a calorie deficit).

What most people completely miss is MUSCLE is mainly redundant in survival. Which is what they body and its hormonal systems are designed for. It doesn't make any genetic sense for the body to waste crucial life giving energy when it is in a state of decline in terms of calories.

dinosnopro

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

Hey, look a special snowflake.

MoreBean13

The problem that arises with question is that people think they want more muscle mass when it's often unnecessary- weight lifting will make you look more muscular whether you're building actual muscle mass or not. There's a few reasons:

1) Neuromuscular adaptation is when your nervous system learns to use the muscle you already have- you're able to "fire" muscle fibers that you haven't been using, which makes your muscle feel firm and makes you feel stronger. Most people interpret the muscle firmness and added strength as new muscle- its not, but does it really matter? Muscle firmness and strength are probably the results you were looking for to begin with.

Is this neuromuscular adaptation accompanied by an increase in muscle size which is not just due to water?

I don't really know how to answer this question :ohwell:
In the beginning of strength training, when the possibility for newbie gains exists, I suppose it's possible- but its unlikely you will see a continuing size increase.

Here is a graph taken from my Exercise Physiology text that might help illustrate what happens:

but I realize this doesn't directly answer your question. I will look more in to it and see if I can find a better answer for you, but my inclination is to say that it's possible for a short time to get some hypertrophy with strength training on a deficit.

ETA: Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and answer this since I really don't know.

mustgetmuscles1

no

Sorry I had to come back just for this. LOL

mmapags

You can't gain muscle mass in much quantities as to be any form of noticeable.

Well I must be some strange human anomaly then... :huh:

I am lifting heavy, eat a high protein / high fat / low carb diet and I've been building muscle quite nicely thank you.

Hey, look a special snowflake.

ROFL!!

Great explanation MoreBean!

PercivalHackworth

Everything has been pretty much said around.
If you guys still think you can really build muscles in deficit, do you really think a weakened body (a deficit is a pretty self-explanatory word) will achieve muscle synthesis ? Nothing comes out from thin air. And the process is a very costly one, immune system prevention, or any other function amongst the thousands the body does are the priority when there is a deficit, building new - rather than preserving almost never occur.

Sarauk2sf

The problem that arises with question is that people think they want more muscle mass when it's often unnecessary- weight lifting will make you look more muscular whether you're building actual muscle mass or not. There's a few reasons:

1) Neuromuscular adaptation is when your nervous system learns to use the muscle you already have- you're able to "fire" muscle fibers that you haven't been using, which makes your muscle feel firm and makes you feel stronger. Most people interpret the muscle firmness and added strength as new muscle- its not, but does it really matter? Muscle firmness and strength are probably the results you were looking for to begin with.

Is this neuromuscular adaptation accompanied by an increase in muscle size which is not just due to water?

I don't really know how to answer this question :ohwell:
In the beginning of strength training, when the possibility for newbie gains exists, I suppose it's possible- but its unlikely you will see a continuing size increase.

Here is a graph taken from my Exercise Physiology text that might help illustrate what happens:

but I realize this doesn't directly answer your question. I will look more in to it and see if I can find a better answer for you, but my inclination is to say that it's possible for a short time to get some hypertrophy with strength training on a deficit.

ETA: Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and answer this since I really don't know.

This is also my understanding. Muscle mass increases by increasing the size of your existing muscle cells. You generally can only do this at a surlpus. You can get strength gains on a deficit because you are using the muscle mass you have more effectively. An increase in size however requires hypertrophy which only happens on a surplus or for 'newbie' gains or for relatively signifcantly overweight individuals. The size gains for a newbie is sort of like using your muscle to its full potential without extra fuel, is relatively small and has a 'shelf life' as that potential will be met at some point without additional fuel (surplus). For non-newbies, that potential has basically been met.

mcarter99

Does anyone know how limited this 'newbie gains' thing usually is? I was reading McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook the other day and I thought he said something like someone new to lifting could grow muscle at a deficit for a couple MONTHS or something. It seems like you could do some not-insignificant changing to a smallish female body within months.

mustgetmuscles1

Does anyone know how limited this 'newbie gains' thing usually is? I was reading McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook the other day and I thought he said something like someone new to lifting could grow muscle at a deficit for a couple MONTHS or something. It seems like you could do some not-insignificant changing to a smallish female body within months.

A couple weeks, up to a couple months but it still wont be much. Maybe like a pound or two spread out over the whole body probably wont even be noticeable.

lizziebeth1028

I'm on a 1,000 calories per day deficit and can definitely feel muscles growing larger now from my workouts.

no

Agree totally and found this the funniest post I've seen in ages!

1000 calories a day = starvation, fatigue, muscle loss, hair loss

Sarauk2sf

Does anyone know how limited this 'newbie gains' thing usually is? I was reading McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook the other day and I thought he said something like someone new to lifting could grow muscle at a deficit for a couple MONTHS or something. It seems like you could do some not-insignificant changing to a smallish female body within months.

My understanding is that it pretty much is exhausted within 6 months (rough estimate). From a size perspective, we are only talking about 1 -2 lb max in general (excluding water retention). It is all subjective obviously, but a combination of the definition you get from the small size gains combined with the drop in body fat can make a pretty impressive visual impact within a few months in my opinion.

ETA: the law of diminishing returns applies to the 'window'.

wgn4166

I'm on a 1,000 calories per day deficit and can definitely feel muscles growing larger now from my workouts.

no

Well this just cracked me up!!!! HAHAHA

33neenaj

I'm on a 1,000 calories per day deficit and can definitely feel muscles growing larger now from my workouts.

no

lol