The Starvation Myth
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You people are confusing the hell out of me........mfp needs a panel of nutritionists to jump in here and unscramble my brains.
I guess the only real way to loose is trial and error. If one don't work do the other.
eat less, move more generally works :laugh:0 -
You people are confusing the hell out of me........mfp needs a panel of nutritionists to jump in here and unscramble my brains.
I guess the only real way to loose is trial and error. If one don't work do the other.
eat less, move more generally works :laugh:
Although I've eaten significantly more since joining here and more again this week and I've lost weight and my 10k fell run yesterday for the first time I ran it without needing to walk some of the hills and my legs never tired, its not only my training paying off it was fuelling my body for the first time and giving it enough to run on.
Ultimately everyone is different you need to find what works for you and people who dont have actual knowledge to butt out from giving their opinions to individuals0 -
weight watchers does the same thing. You can earn points to eat more, thru exercise. That part of it did not work for me.0
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This "written by a nobody next to a shake weight ad" article trumped every article written in scientific journals in the last 40 years, I'm shocked!
You're kidding, right? Did you do any research into who the authors even were?
Dr. Tymoczko is a biochemist, teaches Biochemistry, Oncogenes and Molecular Biology of Cancer, part of Introductory Biology, and a seminar on Exercise Biochemistry. He has recently co-authored the 5th edition of Stryer's Biochemistry, and is currently writing an introductory level biochemistry text. His research interests are in the area of signal transduction.
Jeremy Mark Berg : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_M._Berg
Lubert Stryer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubert_Stryer
I guess those credentials don't make them very qualified to write a book on similar topics as this, though.0 -
I think the problem everyone is missing about eating back calories is that MFP uses your BMR and minus deficate calories off that. When trully your deficate should be subtracted from your Total Daily Energy Expendenture (TDEE) calories. So because MFP uses BMR your need to eat your calories back from exercise because you are already way under on calories needed before you even started exercising.
BMR calories are like others said is the approx. minimum your body needs to function doing absolutlly nothing all day.
TDEE is your BMR multiplied by your normal activity level per day.
Multiplier = My Description or Alternative Description
1.2 = Desk job with little exercise or Little to no exercise
1.375 = 1-3 hrs/wk of light exercise or Light exercise (1–3 days per week)
1.55 = 3-5 hrs/wk of moderate exercise or Moderate exercise (3–5 days per week)
1.725 = 5-6 hrs/wk of strenuous exercise or Heavy exercise (6–7 days per week)
1.9 = 7-21 hrs/wk of strenuous exercise/work or Very heavy exercise (twice per day, extra heavy workouts)
My current BMR is 2280 cal/day
My current TDEE is 2736 cal/day
if I want to loss weight of 2 lbs/week my calories based on my TDEE would only be 1736 cal/day but my body needs a minimum 2280 cal/day to function so trully my my healthy cal/day should not go under 2280 cal. Also if I where to exercise My calories eaten should always be my bmr plus my exercise calories to insure that my organs and muscles have enough energy to fuction.
MFP took my BMR of 2280 cal/day and minused 1000 cal/day (2lbs/week) making my goal 1280 cal/day. now if I where to do 1280 calories of work out in 1 day it would put me at 0 cal/day which means I could of just not even eaten that day and acheived the same goal hense why it is a absolute must to eat your exercise calories back.
good site to calculate your BMR, TDEE and daily calorie goal is: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/0 -
So you can't come up with an answer about the essential carbohydrate (which doesn't exist) and resort to attacking the person instead.I did say vegetables. The poster intentionally cut that out, because the poster just wants to argue and is, as I said, intentionally being obtuse.
(Some) Universities may well be teaching that glucose is the only fuel for the brain. They're wrong. Ketones can provide most of it and the rest can be from glucose produced within the body. Hence you don't have to eat any carbohydrates to live.
That's why your brain is the last thing to die (rather than the first), a guy can fast for over a year if he's fat enough, etc etc.0 -
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but a lot of people say they never heard of eating back exercise before.
Weight Watchers does this. When I was on their plan, I could earn extra points through exercise. Same concept,0 -
I watched a youtube diary/vlog thing of a chick who did 40 day fasts 3 times...with very short (I tihnk like a weekish) spaces in between them to lose weight and because she thought fasting would make her feel closer to God (she was very religious). She actually did fine and 6 months later was really healthy, and was pregnant...and eating normally. I kind of wish I had that sort of drive, except then after I would probably regain because I wouldn't have developed better eating habits like I've been trying to do.0
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In case I haven't posted it yet on this page, WW 'eating back' is optional and maxes at half your exercise calories. It's a little different from MFP's "eat ALL your exercise calories or risk starvation mode".National Institute of Health--
Food Intake and Starvation Induce Metabolic Changes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22414/
Did you post this as part of the discussion about what brains use for fuel or about starvation? I think they're talking about starvation effects from 0 intake in this article, aren't they?0 -
WebMD.com has an interesting article about "The facts on Leptin", a hormone that is said to give feedback to the brain about the state of the body's fat stores and starvation signals.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-facts-on-leptin-faq0 -
If you can find something about how it is okay to eat below 1200 calories for an extended period of time in a scholarly research journal and prove me wrong than I will admit defeat. But I am pretty sure I will not. I am in the exercise science industry and I do not believe that it is healthy in any way shape or form to be eating that little for an extended period of time.
You may have to define "extended period of time". Most clinical studies of weight loss in overweight or obese people use diets below 1200 calories, for quick and significant effect. It's worth saying that 1200 calories appears to be "an American thing" and isn't a level given any significance in the UK's health service (for example). I hadn't met it until I came on here.
http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf - 8 weeks at 600 calories/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488 - 2 months at 420 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7595165 - 12 weeks ar 330 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20379151 - 6 weeks at 800 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592223 - 12 weeks at either 450 or 800 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18198305 - 890 cals/day until 15% of initial weight lost (3 months)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19258409 - 800 calories until BMI < 25 (~158 ± 70 days)0 -
Wow bad analogy. So those extra calories I eat are just getting me all moldy up inside and not giving me energy?I, personally, believe that starvation mode is utter bull-pucky, unless you've been eating less than 500 calories for several months consistently. People who freak out about their metabolism slowing down drive me nuts...it's like soaking your house in water to prevent fire. Sure, no fire, but now you have mold, lovely.
The entire "starvation mode" myth is moldy as f***
The extra calories aren't literally molding you but they might be contributing to the metabolism 'damage' no one here speaks of-- metabolic syndrome. There are many reasons to quit *****footing around and get the weight off. Obesity has serious health consequences in most people. It's so popular here to fly the tortoise flag but most dieters won't stick to a diet for years with painfully slow results. The scale has to move or they give up. And that's a dead tortoise who wins no races.
But if your theory about cutting 1000 cals daily would reduce you 2lb a week then why arent you at 16-24lbs lost?
You cant even make your theory work for yourself.
So why would anyone believe you that it works?
Insane!
If you joined in May and its August now, thats at least 8 weeks- 12 weeks.
So what you are really saying is cutting 1000 cals from your daily intake helps you lose .83-1.25lbs a week.
I have people losing that eating closer to 2k a day.
This is my point from the beginning.
You said it yourself!
Math and science!
As for.....http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf - 8 weeks at 600 calories/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9226488 - 2 months at 420 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7595165 - 12 weeks ar 330 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20379151 - 6 weeks at 800 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592223 - 12 weeks at either 450 or 800 cals/day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18198305 - 890 cals/day until 15% of initial weight lost (3 months)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19258409 - 800 calories until BMI < 25 (~158 ± 70 days)
You guys can eat 420-800 cals a day if you want to but I prefer feasting!
And losing weight at a steady rate.0 -
Come on people the word starvation mode is taken way out of context around here... No one is comparing anything to starving kids in Africa.... The way most use this term is that if you run to high of a caloric deficit your bodies metabolism slows to a crawl and your weightloss stalls... So in essence your body tries to protect itself aka starvation mode.... Then there is the other side "Eating more to lose weight" this comes in to play when you consume those calories burned during exercise. You have to fuel your body for the workouts you ask of it to do... It is as simple as that...
Read the article, though: your metabolism *slows down*, doesn't stop. You will incrementally lose weight slower, but you will still be losing weight at a rapid pace. You don't stop losing weight from fat until you are under 10% bf. and hardly anybody on this forum applies to that.
Note: I'm not saying that eating more than 1200 calories is BAD for you or will make it hard to lose weight (on a case-by-case basis, of course), I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with 1000-1200 calories a day for most people. It's just hard and takes some adjusting. You won't stop losing weight if you eat 1200 cals. You won't gain weight if you eat 1200 cals. And it is not an automatic "well you will lose muscle, then", either.
Hate to burst your bubble but after 37 months of being in a caloric deficit and losing 310 lbs, thru diet and exercise and trial and error coming from not being able to stand and support my own weight to where I am today I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that my body did shut down, did stop losing weight and did actually start retaining calories I was putting in causing me to completely stall out because of those high calorie deficits.... After I figured it out everything changed... Now I eat 3200-3400 calories a day presently to lose 1/2 lb. a week.... I had a BMI of 74+ and after 310 lbs. lost I still have a BMI of 33% (still obese by their standards)
Not by mine:
So I respectfully have to disagree..........
Wow, that's amazing. Way to go!0 -
I set my TDEE to my goal calories. I eat when Im hungry. I exercise like crazy. Try to stay 500-800 below my calories.0
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Bump, great post!0
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I went into starvation mode and ate a few human beings cold blooded.
hahahaha0 -
With how much exercise ?So what you are really saying is cutting 1000 cals from your daily intake helps you lose .83-1.25lbs a week.
I have people losing that eating closer to 2k a day.0 -
I set my TDEE to my goal calories. I eat when Im hungry. I exercise like crazy. Try to stay 500-800 below my calories.
Do you mean you set your goal calories to your TDEE?
In which case, TDEE being defined as what you burn daily with all activity, you would maintain.
Do you mean you set your goal to your non-exercise TDEE?
And now exercise creates the deficit?
That's a great way of doing it for those that have decided to have a great exercise routine.0 -
I guess there are many many methods out there for workout. I have to agree with the MFP system though. I am 25, weight 220ish (5'8"). I think that eating back the calories is a good method. Notice, though, that the guidelines for fat, sodium, sugar, etc are all still considerably lower, and are not completely proportionate to the caloric addition.
I am no expert by any means of the word. I am learning about my body, but I can say that I have been following the plan on here for a week, and have already lost 4 pounds healthily. I just work out at a pace of about 1000-1500 calories a day. If I were to keep the same workout routine, and eat pizza all day, My body would not be able to sustain because of the lack of nutrients, and chances are I will not lose a pound. As far as the calories go....hey, your car needs more gas when you floor it on the freeway, as opposed to a sunday stroll down the avenue. I think that is where the theory of "eating back the calories" comes from. To me, thats logical. That is how I feel.0 -
Not to mention, it is said that if you work out in the morning, whatever you consume thorughout that day is processed faster. Your body speeds up its activity, and uses more calories doing it. So instead of only burning 5 calories a half hour answering phones, you may burn 9 (just an example). Am I right?0
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I don't know about starvation mode but I do know that I have lost SOOO much more weight eating a healthy amount rather than back when I used to try to starve myself. I think it has more to do with the fact that I have more energy and can go harder during workouts. On top of that, I LIKE eating so screw eating very little haha.
I don't agree with eating back calories from exercise But I
your response haha 0 -
Right. Calories is energy, your body wants to store extra energy for a time that you can't eat so it makes fat. When you don't eat it uses fat but as most studies say that you can lose less weight by not eating enough, your body is rationing the remaning fat for you.As far as the calories go....hey, your car needs more gas when you floor it on the freeway, as opposed to a sunday stroll down the avenue. I think that is where the theory of "eating back the calories" comes from. To me, thats logical. That is how I feel.
I've lost 11 pounds so far in 6 weeks. I have to weigh in again to see this 7th week that's pretty good for eating 1950-2400 calories a day. You can't convince me that I could do my job (building scaffold can be rather labor intense) and exercise daily on 1000 and not feel like crap. It's not healthy.0 -
With how much exercise ?So what you are really saying is cutting 1000 cals from your daily intake helps you lose .83-1.25lbs a week.
I have people losing that eating closer to 2k a day.
Whose daily intake? Mine? Oh, is Dan getting personal, assuming I'm saying I eat at 1000 calorie deficits every day therefore if I don't lose 2 lbs/week, science is wrong and he's right? Despite that he has no clue of my intake level or weight or goals?
And the fact that no one can provide published evidence to refute the WW scientists is irrelevant because I lose a pound a week?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Why don't I go into starvation mode when I get sub 5% for body building comp's guys? If it did exist, how could I possibly get so low?0
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No.Not to mention, it is said that if you work out in the morning, whatever you consume thorughout that day is processed faster. Your body speeds up its activity, and uses more calories doing it. So instead of only burning 5 calories a half hour answering phones, you may burn 9 (just an example). Am I right?0 -
I set my TDEE to my goal calories. I eat when Im hungry. I exercise like crazy. Try to stay 500-800 below my calories.
Do you mean you set your goal calories to your TDEE?
In which case, TDEE being defined as what you burn daily with all activity, you would maintain.
Do you mean you set your goal to your non-exercise TDEE?
And now exercise creates the deficit?
That's a great way of doing it for those that have decided to have a great exercise routine.
YES.My TDEE is set for sedentary. So if i go over I should gain. If I go under I should loose. Am I right? Just started this so I really dont know.0 -
Quoted from the WW article.
They are saying there is some sort of a slowing of weightloss. This is all based off a 2000 calorie diet. TDEE says that if someone has a 2000 a day the could be female 5' 4", weigh 150 age 25 and do light exercise. That would keep your current weight. If you're over that weight these numbers aren't for you.However, if an individual actually reduces their intake to 500 calories, the weight loss would not likely be a steady 3 pounds per week because of the reduced metabolic rate. It would likely be around 2¼ to 2½ pounds. This "lower than expected" rate of weight loss is a lot different than "no" weight loss as the "starvation mode" notion proposes.
They are saying here that they don't know the relationship, but then go to say others suggest small reductions in metabolism accompaning the reductions in calorie deficit. The calories reduce so does the metabolism.It is unclear as to whether the relationship between reduced caloric intake and a lower metabolism follows a straight path or becomes more pronounced the greater the caloric reduction. Some studies have found no significant reduction in metabolism until the caloric restriction is quite large (e.g. 800 calories or less per day).2 Others suggest a linear relationship with small reductions in metabolism accompanying small reductions in caloric restriction, with the gap increasing as the caloric deficit is enlarged.
This article isn't really helping anything.0 -
YES.My TDEE is set for sedentary. So if i go over I should gain. If I go under I should loose. Am I right? Just started this so I really dont know.
Yep. Even better, since the body is still doing stuff the next day to recover and repair, you should keep burning more even the day eating at non-exercise TDEE.0 -
Yes you should take your deficet from your TDEE not your BMR then eat back any exercise calories. You really should not go that far under your BMR because I beleive the theory of BMR is the bare minimum calories at your current age and weight to keep your body functioning if you did nothing all day so if you go under your BMR your bodys orgains and stuff can suffer stress specially if you have a low body fat% hense why people who strarve them selfs start to have orgaon faliureI set my TDEE to my goal calories. I eat when Im hungry. I exercise like crazy. Try to stay 500-800 below my calories.
Do you mean you set your goal calories to your TDEE?
In which case, TDEE being defined as what you burn daily with all activity, you would maintain.
Do you mean you set your goal to your non-exercise TDEE?
And now exercise creates the deficit?
That's a great way of doing it for those that have decided to have a great exercise routine.
YES.My TDEE is set for sedentary. So if i go over I should gain. If I go under I should loose. Am I right? Just started this so I really dont know.0 -
This mentions nothing about exercise. If you eat 1000 calories a day and burn 400 calories during a workout you are technically starving yourself because your body NEEDS for than 600 calories to perform its necessary PHYSIOLOGICAL functions. This does not take a genius to understand that. MFP already puts us at a deficit so we can lose weight SAFELY... you don't have to eat the calories back but I GUARANTEE that if you compare the longevity of success of someone who eats their calories back vs those who don't you will see that those eating them are more successful because they are taking better care of themselves. I have never been overweight, so who am I to put my two cents in
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