The Starvation Myth
Replies
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What I find interesting is that there is a lot of discussion about "starvation mode" and "eating back your exercise" on MFP but you don't see it in other forums. Actually I've never seen "eating back your exercise" on other forums (or I can't remember seeing it).
This! Before coming to MFP I never once heard anything anywhere about eating back your exercise calories. If that is "THE" way to go, why had I never heard about it before? My doctors and trainers had never mentioned it, not even once. You would think that if this was the secret to weight loss, everyone would know. Or maybe I live under a rock, which is possible. :bigsmile:
I had never heard of it either, unless you were involved in serious endurance sports or very heavy lifting.
It's only MFP where I've ever seen such a big deal made of it.
Once you start paying attention to what you're eating and move away from processed junk towards more quality food, you often find that you can't eat that much anyway.
Hahaha! Speak for yourself! LOL I can knock out 3500 calories of high quality unprocessed, home prepared, organically grown food easily!! :laugh:
You're also a man and rather larger than me, so what's your point?
I thought the point was pretty obvious but if your a little slow on the uptake I'd be happy to explain it. You used the collective " you" to state that eating less processed and higher quality food, "you" (collective) can't eat that much anyway. That statement would contain the logic fault of generalizing from the specific instance. You didn't say "I", you said "you". What applies to you doesn't apply to all.
There! Clearer?? Glad I could help.
edited for spelling
Thank you for clarifying this to someone who is so obviously lacking in intelligence as according to your humble opinion. I hope you feel better now after that little episode of patronising and belittling which you obviously thought necessary to make your point.
Could you also clarify where all these unprocessed 3500+ cals are you say you're consuming so regularly?
According to your last 6 days entries you consumed 2294 (no exercise), 2275 (no exercise), 2335 (no exercise), 2225 (no exercise) 2324 - 401 exercise = 1923 net, and 2074 (no exercise).
And I'm also not entirely sure whether protein powder classifies as unprocessed, homecooked and organic?
Didn't say I do. Said I could. Different. But hey, good diary reading. I'm glad you find my diary so facinating! And hey, no prob on the clarification. Glad to be able to help! Have a great day!0 -
I want to write this in caps!! People over estimate how many calories they burn during the work out. Simple 40 mins cardio is not burning 700 calories i take credit for 200 in 9 for example a zumba class) there is a warm up cool down so right there you are at 45 mins not an hour. There are alot of hard core people who burn alot of calories and may need to eat them back in order to have the energy to train hard. But thise of us who go do a circut and and hour class are not burning in excess of 300 calories.
This is the biggest issue in "eating back calories". There are many instances where MFP (and other sites) overestimate calories. The elliptical is the biggest villain that I know of. You'll see someone freewheeling on that thing and it says that they burned 600 calories. It's probably closer to 2/3rds of that. Small miscalculations on your portion sizes along with this and it is easy to get nowhere fast.0 -
I want to write this in caps!! People over estimate how many calories they burn during the work out. Simple 40 mins cardio is not burning 700 calories i take credit for 200 in 9 for example a zumba class) there is a warm up cool down so right there you are at 45 mins not an hour. There are alot of hard core people who burn alot of calories and may need to eat them back in order to have the energy to train hard. But thise of us who go do a circut and and hour class are not burning in excess of 300 calories.
This is the biggest issue in "eating back calories". There are many instances where MFP (and other sites) overestimate calories. The elliptical is the biggest villain that I know of. You'll see someone freewheeling on that thing and it says that they burned 600 calories. It's probably closer to 2/3rds of that. Small miscalculations on your portion sizes along with this and it is easy to get nowhere fast.
Abso-freakin-lutely.0 -
What I find interesting is that there is a lot of discussion about "starvation mode" and "eating back your exercise" on MFP but you don't see it in other forums. Actually I've never seen "eating back your exercise" on other forums (or I can't remember seeing it).
The whole eating exercise calories back thing is because unlike every other site I have seen, MFP does not include your planned exercise in the calories it calculates for your weight loss. If you calculate out things pretty much anywhere else for a 1 pound per week weight loss, you will find the calories there are higher than MFP, but pretty close once you add your exercise calories. It is not realizing that which generates the whole controversy.0 -
What I find interesting is that there is a lot of discussion about "starvation mode" and "eating back your exercise" on MFP but you don't see it in other forums. Actually I've never seen "eating back your exercise" on other forums (or I can't remember seeing it).
This! Before coming to MFP I never once heard anything anywhere about eating back your exercise calories. If that is "THE" way to go, why had I never heard about it before? My doctors and trainers had never mentioned it, not even once. You would think that if this was the secret to weight loss, everyone would know. Or maybe I live under a rock, which is possible. :bigsmile:
I'm with you guys, eating back your exercise calories makes no sense at all to me.
For an example, let's say MFP set you up at 1200 calories/day to lose 2lbs per week. MFP is estimating your TDEE @ 2200 calories per day and you have a 1000 calorie deficit/day.
Because you are already set up at a deficit, if you eat what MFP gives you and don't work out, you will lose the 2 lbs per week. Now if you workout your deficit has just gotten larger, let's say you burn 500 calories at the gym, your TDEE for the day is now 2700 calories. If you only eat the 1200 calories, you are at a deficit of 1500 calories. From experience I can't lose weight with more than 1000 calorie deficit.
I hope that helps, other websites will tell you to eat more because they count the workouts in your total, if you miss a day of workout with MFP, you don't have to worry!0 -
Eat too little and your body will hang onto whatever fat it can, it will try to burn more muscle then fat, as fat stores are preserved for longer periods of famine, eat a little more (it doesn't even have to be as much as what would have previously been maintenance calories, as the famine will have slowed your heartrate, and blood pressure and temperature to protect the body from the ongoing famine, ie starvation mode) and the body will try to add to the fat stores for the next famine that comes along. So to me if following VLCD you will likely easily become skinny fat, and don't end up with a desirable body shape and get crap metabolism. Starvation mode will happen as the body uses its build in mechanisms for surviving famines, and the best way to overcome them is to trick the body into thinking there is no famine, (ie eat more) and preserve muscle by doing strength training.
This is how we as a species have managed to survive periods of plenty and famines. It is also why some of us store fat so easily, and most people that don't store fat so easily were selected against during natural selection, they simply died during periods of famine as they didn't have enough stores of body fat to get through the famine, and their genes were not passed along for the next generation.
This is also one of the theories put forward for why pacific islanders put weight on so easily.They most likely originate from a tribe in Taiwan, made long sea journeys in canoes, went for months (probably) with little food, so when they arrived and settled the various islands of the Pacific (Samoa, Tonga, New Zealand etc) only those with genes that made it easy for them to preserve their fat stores and add easily to their fat stores survived those long journeys, and passed their genesalong to the next generation. They have in a population a high number of individuals who lay fat down much easier then a population who didn't originate from the survivors of those long sea journeys.0 -
I think (and shoot me if you must) that too many people get too caught up in what everyone else is doing & thinking that they know best. How come WW current research is right when for years they’ve said differently - I went to WW many years ago having never struggled with my weight until I became ill and needed to lose a few lbs. I did what I thought was right and cut down my eating and upped my exercise. I was advised by WW leader to eat more, she said I wasn’t eating enough to support my bodies metabolism (I was averaging 13 WW points a day so I was hardly starving myself) and given I was working out quite hard 2-3 times a week I needed to eat more. I was scared to death when eating a salad meant I didn’t lose/gained weight but suddenly I could have carbs & protein with that salad and the weight came off. It took a while but it worked I was more energised I could enjoy my workout and I could eat without guilt.
Mainly due to health reasons my weight yo-yos and yet I still go to the low calorie plan when I want to lose weight, this time rather than doing points or syns I thought its calories in v calories out lets see where I’m going wrong. With an increased awareness around how many calories is in food and how many calories I’m burning (based on my HRM readings) I had got my weekly net average up to around 900/day. Talking to a few cyclist friends, real hard core exercisers I was SHOCKED at what they eat, they said ‘you need to fuel your body to work out effectively’ Ok I don’t need 3000 cals per day but having reviewed my past few weeks diaries and they advised me to try to get my net average calories above my BMR.
I’m only days in but already I feel better, I have more energy and ok I might not lose weight/ I might even put a few lbs on but I am doing this for health more than weight loss although I am hopeful that I will start to lose as well.
Its not a simple case as one size fits all, we are all different we all have different needs we all burn calories differently and we all like different things. So rather than criticise each other for what they’re doing can we not offer help guidance if its asked for and be more supportive when people are struggling to change their lifetime habits – we didn’t wake up one morning the way we are and we need to make small daily steps to a better lifestyle.
(nicely explained ingies)0 -
Oh, how I laughed. You actually posted that in a thread titled "The Starvation Myth".Eat too little and your body will hang onto whatever fat it can0 -
I want to write this in caps!! People over estimate how many calories they burn during the work out. Simple 40 mins cardio is not burning 700 calories i take credit for 200 in 9 for example a zumba class) there is a warm up cool down so right there you are at 45 mins not an hour. There are alot of hard core people who burn alot of calories and may need to eat them back in order to have the energy to train hard. But thise of us who go do a circut and and hour class are not burning in excess of 300 calories.
This is the biggest issue in "eating back calories". There are many instances where MFP (and other sites) overestimate calories. The elliptical is the biggest villain that I know of. You'll see someone freewheeling on that thing and it says that they burned 600 calories. It's probably closer to 2/3rds of that. Small miscalculations on your portion sizes along with this and it is easy to get nowhere fast.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
Spot on.0 -
I want to write this in caps!! People over estimate how many calories they burn during the work out. Simple 40 mins cardio is not burning 700 calories i take credit for 200 in 9 for example a zumba class) there is a warm up cool down so right there you are at 45 mins not an hour. There are alot of hard core people who burn alot of calories and may need to eat them back in order to have the energy to train hard. But thise of us who go do a circut and and hour class are not burning in excess of 300 calories.
This is the biggest issue in "eating back calories". There are many instances where MFP (and other sites) overestimate calories. The elliptical is the biggest villain that I know of. You'll see someone freewheeling on that thing and it says that they burned 600 calories. It's probably closer to 2/3rds of that. Small miscalculations on your portion sizes along with this and it is easy to get nowhere fast.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
Spot on.
Right-o! I concur! Cherrie-o!
Everybody should read this. If you are exercising and cutting caloriesevery week, there is no reason an average person who is in the obese "BMI" chart and only loose .5 pounds a week. This is why, people!! Why bust your a** at the gym just to have another meal? Especially when the equipment lies! Such sweet gypsy lies. My apartment gym's elliptical (a nice expensive one, too) says I burn up to 800-900 calories in an hour. PUHLEASE. Kidding me? Probably more like 400. So if I ate 900 calories back, and ate 1250 calories that day (my BMR) I would definitely gain.0 -
There is plenty of need to fuel your workouts advice - if you want to actually see improvements from your workouts. But indeed, some people love to feel like they are pushing hard (and with their body not improving, they are) and not get great changes besides some basic improvement from previous inactive state.
I meant in WW I never heard any "you need to fuel your workouts" advice. Their clientele is admittedly more likely to be walking than pushing at lactate thresholds and such. Which is also true of most people here, I'd imagine. Though I bet they Zumba their *kitten* off before eating back those 1000 calories of carbs they burned.0 -
You know Mcarter for someone whos.........been haunting diet forums for many, many years.
Did you do the 1200 calorie diet over the many many years?
Youve only been here for a few months.
TBH I plan to make this a career.
I'm even going back to school for this so I dont misinform people anymore.
But iof youve been doing this for many many years then obviously something didnt work.
When i'm contacted by a friend or random person whos had huge success with my help it truly brings a tear to my eye.
I've helped change their lives for the better.
I wont haunt these forums because the word haunt brings a sort of negativity.
Instead i'll be here to steer people in the right direction if they get lost.
but for someone whos......been haunting diet forums for many, many years.
Maybe your 1200 calorie way doesnt work very well.
Maybe people shouldnt be cutting 1000 cals from their food daily and just walking.
Take a deep look and youll see the truth.
Maybe its time to try it another way.
You wont bash it so quickly once you see that it works.
BTW folks, starvation is no food.
Zero.
You are starving.
Zero food.
So next time you see the title on a forum that asks the Starvation question I challenge you to post.....
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omg this stuff all just drives me crazy!! i just want not to be fat is that too much too ask??
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/grabs popcorn
this should be interesting
ohhhh yea. lmbo0 -
On 1200 cals a day and walking, 9 obese women lost 40 lbs in 48 weeks. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2374273
" Thus, neither dietary regimen, combined with modest physical activity, was associated with long-term reductions in resting metabolic rate that exceeded decreases anticipated with the achievement of a lower body weight."0 -
Come on people the word starvation mode is taken way out of context around here... No one is comparing anything to starving kids in Africa.... The way most use this term is that if you run to high of a caloric deficit your bodies metabolism slows to a crawl and your weightloss stalls... So in essence your body tries to protect itself aka starvation mode.... Then there is the other side "Eating more to lose weight" this comes in to play when you consume those calories burned during exercise. You have to fuel your body for the workouts you ask of it to do... It is as simple as that...
Read the article, though: your metabolism *slows down*, doesn't stop. You will incrementally lose weight slower, but you will still be losing weight at a rapid pace. You don't stop losing weight from fat until you are under 10% bf. and hardly anybody on this forum applies to that.
Note: I'm not saying that eating more than 1200 calories is BAD for you or will make it hard to lose weight (on a case-by-case basis, of course), I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with 1000-1200 calories a day for most people. It's just hard and takes some adjusting. You won't stop losing weight if you eat 1200 cals. You won't gain weight if you eat 1200 cals. And it is not an automatic "well you will lose muscle, then", either.
you have hit the nail on the head thank you for reiterating what the article reads0 -
could not have said it better myselfI want to write this in caps!! People over estimate how many calories they burn during the work out. Simple 40 mins cardio is not burning 700 calories i take credit for 200 in 9 for example a zumba class) there is a warm up cool down so right there you are at 45 mins not an hour. There are alot of hard core people who burn alot of calories and may need to eat them back in order to have the energy to train hard. But thise of us who go do a circut and and hour class are not burning in excess of 300 calories.
This is the biggest issue in "eating back calories". There are many instances where MFP (and other sites) overestimate calories. The elliptical is the biggest villain that I know of. You'll see someone freewheeling on that thing and it says that they burned 600 calories. It's probably closer to 2/3rds of that. Small miscalculations on your portion sizes along with this and it is easy to get nowhere fast.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
Spot on.0 -
The term "starvation mode" is absurd.
Now, hear this!
Low cal diets do indeed stifle metabolism. FACT!
Every study confirms this.
Don't believe me? Go ahead and crash diet...BE MY GUEST:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
While you're restricting and miserable, I'll be getting great results eating VERY WELL!
My diary is open for any and all to check out.
Answer for yourself. Who's having more fun? Who is getting better results?
Simple deal.:bigsmile:0 -
Right, same here. And who wants to go on some miserable crash diet when they can get better results eating wellI don't know about starvation mode but I do know that I have lost SOOO much more weight eating a healthy amount rather than back when I used to try to starve myself. I think it has more to do with the fact that I have more energy and can go harder during workouts. On top of that, I LIKE eating so screw eating very little haha.
DUH! ?
Starvation diets don't work.
Why?
Because if your calorie deficit is too great, you can easily suffer from
loss of muscle mass (slows down your metabolism) and impaired general progress.
You have to find what is right for you but you also need to remember that your body
is a machine and without the right type and amount of fuel there could be problems
either with loss of muscle, loss of energy, less weight loss/plateaus, etc.
Check out this topic:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/238282-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing-redux?hl=700+calories
Don't fall into the crash diet trap. Stick with the MFP recommendations.
Here's a great group right here on MFP:
Eat More To Weigh Less
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/3817-eat-more-to-weigh-less
Join up and connect with other for support.
Good Luck0 -
I have. I've heard it on numorous sites. I've been at this three years and can think of three sites that I've heard it on.What I find interesting is that there is a lot of discussion about "starvation mode" and "eating back your exercise" on MFP but you don't see it in other forums. Actually I've never seen "eating back your exercise" on other forums (or I can't remember seeing it).0 -
Now I'm going to sit back and watch the show...lol.
The show that I would want to watch would be exercise physiologists and nutritionists and other people who have gone to school for a long time argue about things like this.
This is where MFP could be so much better. Get some of those people and have EXPERTS giving advice on this kind of stuff. I am in the exercise science industry but not a nutritionist nor a personal trainer (will have that soon tho)...and these threads infuriate me at times. Yes. It is important to gain advice and support from others. But when it comes to things that may in the end harm your body, if you are going to post things about how there is no such thing as "starvation mode" or eating too little then don't write it on MFP...join a pro-ana website.
if you are in that industry then you know it takes a whole lot to get to starvation you wont get it by eating 1200 calories you wont even get it by eating 1000 calories but people should be smart enough to know that a 500 calories a day is no where they need to be but 500 calorie per day deficit however will not hurt them in anyway0 -
Right, same here. And who wants to go on some miserable crash diet when they can get better results eating wellI don't know about starvation mode but I do know that I have lost SOOO much more weight eating a healthy amount rather than back when I used to try to starve myself. I think it has more to do with the fact that I have more energy and can go harder during workouts. On top of that, I LIKE eating so screw eating very little haha.
DUH! ?
Starvation diets don't work.
Why?
Because if your calorie deficit is too great, you can easily suffer from
loss of muscle mass (slows down your metabolism) and impaired general progress.
You have to find what is right for you but you also need to remember that your body
is a machine and without the right type and amount of fuel there could be problems
either with loss of muscle, loss of energy, less weight loss/plateaus, etc.
Check out this topic:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/238282-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing-redux?hl=700+calories
Don't fall into the crash diet trap. Stick with the MFP recommendations.
Here's a great group right here on MFP:
Eat More To Weigh Less
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/3817-eat-more-to-weigh-less
Join up and connect with other for support.
Good Luck
The american gangster at it again! Good stuff bro.0 -
the reason i named it Myth is not only thats the name of the article but also because in reality you can not unless you eat 500 calories or less a day you will not go into starvation mode like it states in the article your body will slow down but NOT COMPLETELY STOP understand?The thing that I find ironic is that the person who started the thread called it a myth but quoted an article by weight watchers that actually says that the body does go into a starvation mode. Ironical.0 -
Starvation mode = adaptive thermogenesis = metabolic slowdown
Starvation mode =/= Starvation (or any argument involving anorexics or africans)
There, I just cleared it up for you. Now we can all agree.
thats great0 -
If you must insist on eating at such highly restricted calories please start resistance weight training over cardio.
Study for the reason I say this and article that sites the study.
http://www.jacn.org/content/18/2/115.abstract
http://fitnessblackbook.com/dieting_for_fat_loss/maintain-muscle-mass-on-800-calories-per-day/Results for the Dieters Who Did Cardio Only
The cardio only group lost most overall weight than the resistance only group, but unfortunately lost a significant amount of lean body mass. They also experienced a decrease in resting metabolic rate. So, obviously if someone is dieting hard they need to more than just cardio to maintain their lean muscle mass.
Results for the Dieters Who Did Resistance Training
This group didn’t lose any muscle mass whatsoever. In fact they lost more body fat than the cardio only group. Also, you have probably heard that “the metabolism slows down if calories are kept too low”. Well…this group actually had a higher resting metabolic rate than when they started. So resistance training is key when you are dieting.
Note that this study disproves all the people saying you do not lose muscle mass until low body fat %. You can lose muscle at anytime if your body feels it is not needed and you are eating at a deficit.
good info0 -
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Notice weight watchers says there is no biological evidence to support lower calories produces starvation mode..in fact starvation mode only begins after 3 days of no calories. Even then true starvation (see Wikipedia or medical texts) only exists when all fat stores are depleted.
good info but i would not trust Wikipedia0 -
You know Mcarter for someone whos.........been haunting diet forums for many, many years.
Did you do the 1200 calorie diet over the many many years?
Youve only been here for a few months.
TBH I plan to make this a career.
I'm even going back to school for this so I dont misinform people anymore.
But iof youve been doing this for many many years then obviously something didnt work.
Who said anything about what I eat or what I have to lose? Weight management and fitness are two of many interests of mine.
I'm not advocating anything except that people not have a mountain of myth to consider in their own decision on how to lose weight.
If you can't address the information, attack the person, though. Like when you tell me to STFU. Posting cartoons and silly images is a nice redirect, too. As are your 'client' testimonials.0 -
Eat until you're full and then STOP. Don't eat just to fulfill some caloric goal of 1500 or whatnot. My opinion.
yes! i hate people that are like, "oh i'm not hungry but i have 200 cals left for today..what should i eat?!"
don't eat if you're not hungry!
both are correct your body knows more than you however you shouldn't wait until you are hungry to eat you should eat 5 times a day healthy balanced meals & you will never feel hungry0 -
You know Mcarter for someone whos.........been haunting diet forums for many, many years.
Did you do the 1200 calorie diet over the many many years?
Youve only been here for a few months.
TBH I plan to make this a career.
I'm even going back to school for this so I dont misinform people anymore.
But iof youve been doing this for many many years then obviously something didnt work.
Who said anything about what I eat or what I have to lose? Weight management and fitness are two of many interests of mine.
I'm not advocating anything except that people not have a mountain of myth to consider in their own decision on how to lose weight.
If you can't address the information, attack the person, though. Like when you tell me to STFU. Posting cartoons and silly images is a nice redirect, too. As are your 'client' testimonials.
many people who loose an argument will stoop to attacks just to make them self look better all the while making themselves look bad0
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