Hunter-gatherers vs Westerners
Replies
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she said a spam filter removed it, and made sure it was re posted, I guess you just forgot to mention that part.The Vegesource article contains a comment by T. Colin Campbell to Ms Minger. I think that is highly relevant, don't you? Especially since Ms Minger censored responses on her own blog that she didn't like or agree with.
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Yeah, after she was outed
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because it illustrates your "lifestyle' is flawed, how can anyone that has to rely on supplements and food sources trucked from around the world to survive claim their diet is optimal?And why on earth would I want to drop myself off in the middle of nowhere and try to survive.
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My lifestyle is flawed ! Oh, how tragic for me! I am 69 years old, work out every day, have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, have gone on 40 + mile bike trips this summer, work every day, and I haven't eaten meat since 1979. I am in very good health. In fact, I don't know anyone my age who is in as good shape as me. How old are you?
Wanna arm wrestle?
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what problems would that be, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis?We have a civilzation where the problems you are worrrying about have been sovled thousands of years ago.
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I agree. Those are problems for meat eaters.
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obviously you know nothing about how long it takes for the human body to adapt.Why would I not want to eat a diet that is right for THIS CIVILIZATION.
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To adapt to what? A totally insane diet?
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as I said before we don't do this.As I said previously, you are free to go out and eat bugs and worms, and slugs, and whatever you can catch
wrong assumption, really makes you look foolish when you make assumptions. Typical veggie.(Bytheway I assume that if you were planning to be dropped in the middle of nowhere you would bring a rifle with you. Now that is a really good paleolithic tool!)
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Wow! Knowing what you would and wouldn't do means you actually thought about it. Okay, so tell me how would you survive. No wait -don't tell me. We're back to eating worms and bugs aren't we?
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Sure, right. And how many hours do I have to waste trying to prove a negative. Forget it. If you can't prove you know what you are talking about, I will simply form a logical opinion about what you believe.
You come on here, to a thread that had NOTHING to do with the paleo diet and start with your veggie propaganda, and your strawmen. I understand you veggies like to think you're superior to us meat eaters, but please keep it on your little veggie sites and leave the rest of us that live in the real world alone. I like to eat prey animals, I even like to go out and kill them myself. So while you're out there killing a poor defenseless cabbage, I'm killing a big fat juicy deer, big deal.0 -
but I am sure these people have significant differences in genome from the wider population.
You are sure? Well scientific man, where is you scientific study to back that up? LOL
This actually makes sense. That tribe probably only reproduce, so to speak, with their own tribe. That may not ALWAYS be the case, but I would bet they keep within their tribe.0 -
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Wow! Knowing what you would and wouldn't do means you actually thought about it. Okay, so tell me how would you survive. No wait -don't tell me. We're back to eating worms and bugs aren't we?
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Dang you ever get tired of being wrong, didn't your mommy ever tell you about making assumptions? I wouldn't take a rifle because I hunt with a bow, gee it's really just that simple, I don't live in the mountains with cantina wire surrounding my fort, and a stock pile of weapons and freeze dried food.0 -
but I am sure these people have significant differences in genome from the wider population.
You are sure? Well scientific man, where is you scientific study to back that up? LOL
This actually makes sense. That tribe probably only reproduce, so to speak, with their own tribe. That may not ALWAYS be the case, but I would bet they keep within their tribe.
True but it doesn't mean they are genetically different than us.0 -
You guys are hilarious. I'm enjoying the long stream of hot air you're all blowing at each other.
Why is it so funny? Because who seriously gives a crap about what someone else thinks, when that person will never have any impact on your life? Why are you trying to shove your ideas down the other persons throat? Really...
Too funny...0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.0 -
back to the original subject would hunter gatherers really burn any more calories than modern day people? to be honest when i see animals in the wild they are usually standing around or laying down. they only seem to run when catching food or running for their life.0
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its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
LOL I know right?0 -
so the only big difference in our diet is i eat real meat? and i dont think a diet of meat, fruit , vegetables nuts and tubers is new. but yes the name isits odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.0 -
but I am sure these people have significant differences in genome from the wider population.
You are sure? Well scientific man, where is you scientific study to back that up? LOL
This actually makes sense. That tribe probably only reproduce, so to speak, with their own tribe. That may not ALWAYS be the case, but I would bet they keep within their tribe.
True but it doesn't mean they are genetically different than us.
The environment can determine which genes are experessed. (If interested, look up Epigenetics. ) After many years and mutations, certain phenotypes which have survivability characteristics become dominant and recessive non-valuable characteristics disappear. The Inuits and Lapplanders have a superhuman ability to eat fat and meat and not get cancer or heart disease. They are different from other populations. Additionally the Trobriand Islanders mentioned previously probably also evolved similarly.0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
Really? Look up Pythagoreans, Essenes, Therapeutae, Naserenes, to name a few.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
Really? Look up Pythagoreans, Essenes, Therapeutae, Naserenes, to name a few.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.
Sub societies and cults do not count. I'm talking long lived, thriving societies. Nice try though, hint I look things up before I post.0 -
im not sure if there is actually proof of the essenes being vegetarians. they were extremely devout jews so im fairly certain the practiced animal sacrifices. this is likely peta propaganda.its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
Really? Look up Pythagoreans, Essenes, Therapeutae, Naserenes, to name a few.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.
Sub societies and cults do not count. I'm talking long lived, thriving societies. Nice try though, hint I look things up before I post.0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
Really? Look up Pythagoreans, Essenes, Therapeutae, Naserenes, to name a few.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.
Sub societies and cults do not count. I'm talking long lived, thriving societies. Nice try though, hint I look things up before I post.
Hint, you're wrong. Read the China study (Oh Gasp!) Most cultures in China are vegetarian. And you are using the word "society" with a non-standard quite idiosyncratic meaning.0 -
its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.
You aren't going to change their minds.
I have a friend who lives off the grid; no electricity, hand carries his water, and is 4 hours away from an actual town unless he takes a motor boat across a enormous lake, which he can't usually do in the dead of winter when there is a couple of feet of snow. He was vegan when he moved out there. Once he realized how difficult and fairly impossible it was to actually sustain himself on that type of diet he started to eat meat. We live in the mountains so we don't have a long growing season. He gets interns from the local University, who are getting a primitive living degree, and he teaches them how to live without civilization. Teaches them how to tan hides and such. He raises bees, he is one of my state's largest producers of organic queen honey bees, and sleeps with his hives to keep bears away. This dude is hard core. Whenever he comes to town he pigs out. He is not very big, my height of 5'6", but he eats as much as 2 people when he is here. He calorie loads whenever he can. He is in such incredible shape from the amount of hard work he does. He teases my chubby husband all the time that he should come spend 6 months out at the ranch and all of his fat will disappear.0 -
im not sure if there is actually proof of the essenes being vegetarians. they were extremely devout jews so im fairly certain the practiced animal sacrifices. this is likely peta propaganda.its odd that a diet encouraging meat, vegetables, fruits and tubers is considered a fad. but a diet that includes fake soy meat is not.
90% of my diet consists of veggies,. fruits and nuts. Yup, I also eat processed soy products. As far as I know vegetarianism has been around since before Jesus Christ, so I would say it is well beyond the fad stage. The Paleo diet, however, despite its name is brand new.
Really? Look up Pythagoreans, Essenes, Therapeutae, Naserenes, to name a few.
There is NO record of a vegetarian society, ever in history.
Sub societies and cults do not count. I'm talking long lived, thriving societies. Nice try though, hint I look things up before I post.
Okay, I am not going to argue with someone who obviously knows nothing about the subject. I encourage you to do some reading, since there are dozens of books on the subject (Hint: Google Dead Sea Scrolls)0 -
i actually do intend on reading about it. not that i think it even matters.0
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i actually do intend on reading about it. not that i think it even matters.
Fine. Message me if you want some book titles on the subject.0 -
I would agree whole heartedly. Not only do we as a society eat way too much, but completely the wrong types of foods. I'm come to the conclusion that 90% of the food available to us is crap! Eveything availble to us as consumers contains preservatives, nitrates, refined sugar and flour, etc. Eating healthy is more time consuming and requires much diligence, that being said the rewards are worth it! Sure exercise plays a part, but I can't help but think its food and food alone causing the rise in obesity.0
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Okay, not interested in continuing here other than a reply to wackyfunster -One other interesting thing is that rats don't appear to respond to leptin the same way humans do, so that makes metabolic comparison somewhat questionable (I am not knocking rat research at all, but in this case there are some distinct differences).
OTOH genetically suppressing the insulin response in rats results in a doubled lifespan, which is pretty cool.
I was the lab rat, along with several others.
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What is the "China Diet?" I have never heard of that.
The China Study, on the other had has yet to be seriously debunked. It has some problems, and Campbell the author of the study stated that given hindsight he might have done some things differently, but by no means did he ever state that his study had been "debunked." As far as I know, no one else with any scientific credentials has ever said that either.
Yes I meant China study, and really a person that did a study saying his study hasn't been debunked, now there's a shock.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ (debunk)
http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/ (debunk)
http://freetheanimal.com/2010/07/t-colin-campbells-the-china-study-finally-exhaustively-discredited.html (debunk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5TKlTJLpE (and for those that can't read here is a you tube debunk)
Some of these overlap, please look at the links to actual studies, don't come back with these are just bloggers or whatever.
Right?! The China Study/ Campbell has been discredited for quite a while now.0 -
http://jonnybowdenblog.com/why-i-am-not-a-vegetarian/“China Study” by Campbell represents, as mentioned, his conclusions about this data – conclusions which have been fiercely debated, by the way. He uses hand selected, cherry picked data from the study to support his rabid pro-vegan position and leaves out everything that contradicts it.(Campbell is associated with Physicians for Responsible Medicine, a vegan animal rights group masquerading as a responsible medical organization.)At one point, defending his “anti-animal protein” position, Campbell quoted a study done at Harvard University which, he said, had reached the exact same conclusion that he, Campbell, had reached. Even Harvard researchers agreed with him, was the implication.
A man sitting at the other end of the dais got up and introduced himself. “Excuse me, Dr. Campbell”, said the man.”I happened to be the lead researcher on that study you mentioned. And we made no such conclusions” It was David Ludwig, MD, of Harvard University.What I find interesting about the “China Study” is that it also compltely contradicts everything that my Chinese friends tell me about what they eat “back home”. Fish, eggs, chickens, and pork, PORK! They love all of these things, they’d love more beef too when they can afford it. China is one of the least vegetarian countries on Earth.0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_countryIn China, although full vegetarianism is a fairly rare practice,
GASP indeed. lol0 -
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/30/content_12806270.htm
And this vegan, sharing his troubles finding good veggie foods in China, you know that country where most are vegeterian, or did I get you wrong on that?I was a Ph.D. Research scholar to China as part of India-China Cultural Exchange program. The day I landed in Xiamen University, I couldn't find anything to eat for a vegetarian.I was a Ph.D. Research scholar to China as part of India-China Cultural Exchange program. The day I landed in Xiamen University, I couldn't find anything to eat for a vegetarian.0 -
Really ? The nation where they happily admit to "eating anything with legs apart from the table and chairs" ?Most cultures in China are vegetarian.0 -
Freerange are we getting vegetarianism confused with vegan-ism? A lot of vegetarians will eat fish and eggs.0
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http://jonnybowdenblog.com/why-i-am-not-a-vegetarian/“China Study” by Campbell represents, as mentioned, his conclusions about this data – conclusions which have been fiercely debated, by the way. He uses hand selected, cherry picked data from the study to support his rabid pro-vegan position and leaves out everything that contradicts it.(Campbell is associated with Physicians for Responsible Medicine, a vegan animal rights group masquerading as a responsible medical organization.)At one point, defending his “anti-animal protein” position, Campbell quoted a study done at Harvard University which, he said, had reached the exact same conclusion that he, Campbell, had reached. Even Harvard researchers agreed with him, was the implication.
A man sitting at the other end of the dais got up and introduced himself. “Excuse me, Dr. Campbell”, said the man.”I happened to be the lead researcher on that study you mentioned. And we made no such conclusions” It was David Ludwig, MD, of Harvard University.What I find interesting about the “China Study” is that it also compltely contradicts everything that my Chinese friends tell me about what they eat “back home”. Fish, eggs, chickens, and pork, PORK! They love all of these things, they’d love more beef too when they can afford it. China is one of the least vegetarian countries on Earth.
hmmm...not keen on Campbell or Ludwig, but thank you! I did not know about that incident... freerange, you have done your homework. Thank you for sharing. 0 -
Freerange are we getting vegetarianism confused with vegan-ism? A lot of vegetarians will eat fish and eggs.
A little. But to be technical if they eat animal products they are not vegetarian, vegans carry it to another level, they "try" to avoid all contact with anything that comes from, or caused the death of an animal. As in the cloths they wear, the makeup they use, etc, etc.
To be clear I have no problem with veggies (I lump them all in the same boat) as long as they leave me alone and don't try to force me to live my life as they see fit. My problem is with the militant, my way or the highway, killing bambi is bad, eating tofu is holy, crowd that I despise.0
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