Fasting for weight loss vs. anorexia

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Replies

  • fbmandy55
    fbmandy55 Posts: 5,263 Member
    Having recovered from an ED myself, I'll just give my take... It becomes "disordered" when you are doing something IN SPITE of your health, rather than FOR it, and the focus is on the action itself (whether it be binging, purging, or fasting) rather than the result.

    Like the person who posted a topic earlier that she is going to 'fast' or not eat ANY FOOD for 10 days to lose weight for a special occasion. No regards to her health, just her vanity.
  • Jtoungate
    Jtoungate Posts: 2
    Please don't consider fasting as an option for weight loss because you will mainly lose muscle and not feed your body properly.

    I've lost 25lbs since I started using this app on 5/1812. I've followed my targeted goals I set for my weight loss. To do this I have changed the amount and types of foods that I eat to reach that daily goal. I've combined various exercises such as bicycling at least 6 miles a day 6 days a week, lifting weights and calisthenics for toning alternating days and most of the time come in under my daily goal. I'm eating more than I ever thought I could and losing weight.

    I understand that there is this issue in your past and would encourage you to eat healthy and exercise and you'll get to where you want to be. :)
  • secretlobster
    secretlobster Posts: 3,566 Member
    Like the person who posted a topic earlier that she is going to 'fast' or not eat ANY FOOD for 10 days to lose weight for a special occasion. No regards to her health, just her vanity.

    It's not up to me to diagnose an ED, but yes that's incredibly disordered eating...
  • SamanthaAnnM
    SamanthaAnnM Posts: 143 Member
    Anorexia is very much a mental disorder as much as it is a physical one. Simply fasting does not make you anorexic more than being sad for a few days makes you depressed. Also, a lot of people don't realize this but there are actually some stringent requirements to be diagnosed with anorexia in the DSM IV.


    A. A refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height (e.g. weight loss leading to a maintenance of body weight less than 85% of that expected, or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected).

    B. Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat, even though underweight.

    C. Disturbance in the way in which one's body weight or shape is experienced, undue influence of body weight or shape on self-evaluation, or denial of the seriousness of the current low body weight.

    Specify type:

    Restricting Type: During the current episode of Anorexia Nervosa, the person has not regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behaviour (i.e. self-induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas)

    Binge-Eating/Purging Type: During the current episode of Anorexia Nervosa, the person has regularly engaged in binge-eating or purging behaviour (i.e. self induced vomiting or the misuse of laxatives, diuretics or enemas).

    Although restriction is part of anorexia it's definitely not all of it.
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    So, we can always tell when it's ED but not when fasting may also be ED.

    I've never fasted, I don't know anything about it except all of my dietetic training taught me NOT to do it because the body is designed to process in a very particular way to solve issues for us. As a member of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, we NEVER endorse fasting. So, you can see where I'm coming from--fasting, in many situations, exhibits the same characteristics of ED.

    So, here's what I've compiled that many people have determined matters:

    Time frame
    Goal/intention (I attempted to establish in the title that it's for weight loss)
    Self control
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    Simply fasting does not make you anorexic more than being sad for a few days makes you depressed.

    I really like this comparison.

    According to the DSM criteria, are you not diagnosed until you're underweight?

    I know that's when I was diagnosed but I assume you could be in the full throws of it and be diagnosed. The criteria doesn't suggest that.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member
    i'm sorry, but if you've had an ED, you should know the difference.

    anorexia, bulimia, ect.. they are PROGRESSIVE psychological disorders.

    a fast is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am-i'll-try-it-and-see-how-long-i-last... a far cry from a progressive psychological disorder.

    Exactly how do you think EDs start?

    "I'll eat a little less today" then "I won't eat all today" then "I won't eat at all this week"

    Sounds a lot like "I won't eat for as long as possible" to me.

    unless you're a mental health professional or have had an ED before, i can understand how its difficult for you to understand everything that is an ED.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member
    i'm sorry, but if you've had an ED, you should know the difference.

    anorexia, bulimia, ect.. they are PROGRESSIVE psychological disorders.

    a fast is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am-i'll-try-it-and-see-how-long-i-last... a far cry from a progressive psychological disorder.

    ^

    http://www.something-fishy.org/

    I suggest anyone confused should read up on it, knowledge is power and all.

    Great site for recovery, also.

    exactly. :)

    great info for those that don't have an understanding.
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    i'm sorry, but if you've had an ED, you should know the difference.

    anorexia, bulimia, ect.. they are PROGRESSIVE psychological disorders.

    a fast is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am-i'll-try-it-and-see-how-long-i-last... a far cry from a progressive psychological disorder.

    Exactly how do you think EDs start?

    "I'll eat a little less today" then "I won't eat all today" then "I won't eat at all this week"

    Sounds a lot like "I won't eat for as long as possible" to me.

    unless you're a mental health professional or have had an ED before, i can understand how its difficult for you to understand everything that is an ED.

    See, but "how is fasting mentality any different?" is the question.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    It's a denial thing. That's really all there is to it.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member
    i'm sorry, but if you've had an ED, you should know the difference.

    anorexia, bulimia, ect.. they are PROGRESSIVE psychological disorders.

    a fast is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am-i'll-try-it-and-see-how-long-i-last... a far cry from a progressive psychological disorder.

    Exactly how do you think EDs start?

    "I'll eat a little less today" then "I won't eat all today" then "I won't eat at all this week"

    Sounds a lot like "I won't eat for as long as possible" to me.

    unless you're a mental health professional or have had an ED before, i can understand how its difficult for you to understand everything that is an ED.

    See, but "how is fasting mentality any different?" is the question.

    if someone is fasting, it is short lived and definitely aware of the fact that they are fasting. they're not in denial.

    anorexia nervosa is a slow progressing psychiatric disorder.

    no one wakes up and decides that day that they're going to become anorexic.
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    So, not eating for vanity reasons can branch 2 different directions.

    Don't know about all the other ED recoverers here but I wouldn't have considered myself in denial but defensive of my habits. More of a 'it's none of your business'.

    So, is it denial you have a problem, denial that you're doing damage, denial that you need help, etc?

    Mine was that last. I was fully aware of the other two.
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    Also, it's great to see so many perspectives here. I would like a little more input from people who have done extended fasts to lose weight, if they're out there.

    I don't know how you wouldn't become obsessed. LOL...spoken like a true addict.
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member
    i'm sorry, but if you've had an ED, you should know the difference.

    anorexia, bulimia, ect.. they are PROGRESSIVE psychological disorders.

    a fast is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am-i'll-try-it-and-see-how-long-i-last... a far cry from a progressive psychological disorder.

    Exactly how do you think EDs start?

    "I'll eat a little less today" then "I won't eat all today" then "I won't eat at all this week"

    Sounds a lot like "I won't eat for as long as possible" to me.

    unless you're a mental health professional or have had an ED before, i can understand how its difficult for you to understand everything that is an ED.

    I seriously doubt most people with EDs understand everything that is an ED. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing no one on this planet knows everything biological and psychological about EDs, else there would be an end-all cure.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member

    I seriously doubt most people with EDs understand everything that is an ED. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing no one on this planet knows everything biological and psychological about EDs, else there would be an end-all cure.

    cases are different, there's not one set "reason" someone develops an ED.

    just like there's different reasons for people having depression. or an addiction.
  • estitom
    estitom Posts: 205 Member
    The "professional" definition of a disorder is when the behavior is impacting your life negatively in 2 or more areas. Work AND home. Home and friendships. School and church. Physically and socially. You get the idea.

    Technically, it isn't a clinical disorder unless you're having some kind of trouble. So if you are fasting, but you aren't changing your social life, work performance, or physical health for the worse, you don't have a clinical disorder.

    You're still playing with fire, imho.

    I agree with this!
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    Break it up, you two! ;)
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,873 Member
    I haven't done fasting for weight loss, but I do fast for religious reasons. I'm basically slowly losing weight that crept on even more slowly, so I think it is fair to say that my eating is relatively ordered.

    I think the main difference is the reason for not eating. When someone is fasting, whether it be for religion or for weight loss, there is a defined start point and end point and a defined objective. For example, I am going to fast from sundown on Saturday to nightfall on Sunday this week because it is a day of mourning. Someone who is doing IF will wait until lunchtime to eat their first meal of the day because they think it will assist them in reaching goal weight X.

    Someone who has an eating disorder will be afraid to eat food all the time out of a desire to keep getting skinnier and skinnier, with no real stop point as they are never satisfied with their body.
  • sobriquet84
    sobriquet84 Posts: 607 Member

    I seriously doubt most people with EDs understand everything that is an ED. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing no one on this planet knows everything biological and psychological about EDs, else there would be an end-all cure.

    and by the way... sufferers of an ED most certainly do understand what it is to have an ED. they are the ones suffering from it, after all. they may not understand the reasons for them having it or full extent of their issues that led to it, but i assure you they know what it is to have one.
  • jackieatx
    jackieatx Posts: 578 Member
    Read the stickies on the intermittent fasting group. There's a huge difference between controlling when you eat and letting food completely control you.
  • davert123
    davert123 Posts: 1,568 Member
    Some people fast for religious reasons - not sure I understand the theology behind this but I'm sure that this is very different to an ED. From my understanding though fasting for an extended period has the chance of causing long term neurological damage which could leave people more susceptible to forming EDs later.
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
    I would say that anorexia is a disease, and fasting COULD be a symptom of that disease.

    Similarly, the flu is a disease, and coughing and sneezing are symptoms of that disease, but not all coughing and sneezing is the flu.
  • marieautumn
    marieautumn Posts: 928 Member
    i would never fast. all the people on my friends list that fast on a regular basis clearly have eating disorders in my opinion because even when they aren't fasting, they are only eating 400-600 calories a day. needless to say they get deleted pretty quickly as i cannot stand to watch some one do that to themselves.
  • HeidiMightyRawr
    HeidiMightyRawr Posts: 3,343 Member
    Anorexia is a mental illness, fasting is not.

    With general fasting you would assume that there is an element of control, you can stop and resume normal eating when you want or need to. Anorexia it's a lot more complicated than that.

    A person may fast as part of anorexia, but there are many reasons for fasting besides that (religion to name just one)
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member

    I seriously doubt most people with EDs understand everything that is an ED. As a matter of fact, I'm guessing no one on this planet knows everything biological and psychological about EDs, else there would be an end-all cure.

    and by the way... sufferers of an ED most certainly do understand what it is to have an ED. they are the ones suffering from it, after all. they may not understand the reasons for them having it or full extent of their issues that led to it, but i assure you they know what it is to have one.

    I don't think many ED sufferers do understand, the ones in remission and seeking help do, but there are a lot of people ON THIS SITE that clearly have disordered eating habits and are still denying it, even though the evidence is in black and white.

    And that isn't even what I said in my post, I said they don't "understand everything that is ED" just like you originally said only people who have EDs can "understand everything that is ED". The human mind is extremely complex and very poorly understood scientifically.
  • sabusby
    sabusby Posts: 78 Member
    @ Heidi- So it's also safe to assume that we have plenty of fasters out there who are justifying an ED?

    I just don't get how people can fast for vanity reasons and not call it 'disordered.' :?
  • wattssal000
    wattssal000 Posts: 62 Member
    Well the first stage of my eating disorder was anorexia. I see dieting and anorexia two completely different things.

    Dieting you are obviously wanting to lose some weight and feel better aobut yourself for whatever reason.

    With anorexia it consumes your whole life, you are terrified of weight gain and eating. You think about every calorie you put into your mouth, what the next thing you eat is going to be, distancing yourself from social outings because of the food element and in my case become dangerously thin but are still terrified to eat and have a very unrealistic body image.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    Please don't consider fasting as an option for weight loss because you will mainly lose muscle and not feed your body properly.

    This is not true ^^

    Please learn a little more about how fasting works.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    i would never fast. all the people on my friends list that fast on a regular basis clearly have eating disorders in my opinion because even when they aren't fasting, they are only eating 400-600 calories a day. needless to say they get deleted pretty quickly as i cannot stand to watch some one do that to themselves.

    So, I'm not on your friends list, but when I'm not fasting I eat somewhere between 1900 and 2400 calories a day, depending on what my workout was like that day.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    @ Heidi- So it's also safe to assume that we have plenty of fasters out there who are justifying an ED?

    I just don't get how people can fast for vanity reasons and not call it 'disordered.' :?

    I'd be curious to know how many people who truly do have an eating disorder try to disquise it by calling it fasting... but even there are those who try, it would still fall apart pretty quickly:

    "Yeah, I'm fasting..."
    "Really? I've never tried that before. How long since you've eaten?"
    "Umm... I think it was... maybe June something, so what's today? I guess about 40 days..."
    "Is that healthy?"
    "Oh yeah, everyone's doing it..."

    Seriously?

    Also, as far as fasting for 'vanity' reasons, I think that's a bit of a grey area. Let's assume that everyone on MFP is here to get into better shape... there's a health aspect to that, yes, but you can't say there isn't also a vanity aspect. We all want to look better.

    Controlled fasting is healthy if done the right way. Not eating for 10 days - or eating 400 calories a day, or whatever - isn't healthy, no matter the reason.

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