Is Sugar Toxic?
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Moderation is the key! Even things that are good for you can cause harm if you injest too much of the stuff. For example, we all know how good water is for you and I read somewhere that you can drink too much of the stuff.
With something that is good for you, moderation is the key. With smoking, you wouldn't say "moderation is the key", right? You'd say - better to stop using it, or cut way back if you are too addicted to stop altogether.
Our bodies need water. Yes, you can drown. But you can't stop drinking water, and you shouldn't try. We all need a balance of nutrients in our systems. But added, processed sugar isn't a requirement at all, and has been proven to be harmful - it's not a quack theory.
sugar, added processed sugar isn't needed. But it's been proven to be harmful? In what levels and concentrations? Peanut butter isn't needed either and at certain levels or concentrations it can be harmful. So peanut butter is toxic? Same can be said for chicken, onions, garlic, bologna and cheesecake.0 -
It wasn't called Sugar Diabetes for nothing...
it was called that because the doctors at that time didn't understand the cause of diabetes. They called it that because people had a high blood sugar count, not because they ate too much sugar. But, hey, don't ever let scientific stuff get in the way of good posts on social media sites.
and when you eliminate sugars (and crappy carbs) from your diet, your chance of getting diabetes is less.
hell, people with diabetes that eat a diet lower in carbs can get off their diabetes meds.
OK, if we stick to Type 2 diabetes, you're slightly right. Sugar did not cause their Type 2 diabetes but eating high levels of sugar can cause problems BECAUSE they have diabetes. And reducing the foods that cause spikes in their blood sugar levels such as those carbs you're talking about can make things better for them. Again, sugar not the cause of the disease.....0 -
You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. First you should probably start with metabolically how do refined sugars differ from their naturally occurring counterparts.
The history lesson part, frankly, I don't have time for right now. Maybe after dinner, if I still feel like playing
. A little research on Google would probably show you the truth, but I can see you aren't that sort of guy.
The sugar part is easy - I am not claiming a metabolic difference between refined sugars and glucose. Read carefully - that isn't what I said. I said the brain can make glucose from sources of carbohydrate other than added refined sugar. In fact, it can make glucose from fat as well.
Nobody needs refined sugar in their diet. Punto, period, end of story. It's yummy, though.0 -
Don't let the fact that adult onset, oh wait, type 2 diabetes is skyrocketing along with the consumption of sugar and refined carbohydrates. And that the best treatment for diabetes is a low carb diet.It wasn't called Sugar Diabetes for nothing...
it was called that because the doctors at that time didn't understand the cause of diabetes. They called it that because people had a high blood sugar count, not because they ate too much sugar. But, hey, don't ever let scientific stuff get in the way of good posts on social media sites.
Is it the only factor? Probably not but don't kid yourself -- sugar matters.0 -
You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. First you should probably start with metabolically how do refined sugars differ from their naturally occurring counterparts.
The history lesson part, frankly, I don't have time for right now. Maybe after dinner, if I still feel like playing. A little research on Google would probably show you the truth, but I can see you aren't that sort of guy.
The sugar part is easy - I am not claiming a metabolic difference between refined sugars and glucose. Read carefully - that isn't what I said. I said the brain can make glucose from sources of carbohydrate other than added refined sugar. In fact, it can make glucose from fat as well.
Nobody needs refined sugar in their diet. Punto, period, end of story. It's yummy, though.
but you've changed what you originally said. Now you're saying processed sugar isn't needed. I think most people will agree with that. That's much different than saying sugar is toxic.0 -
Nobody needs refined sugar in their diet. Punto, period, end of story. It's yummy, though.
We aren't debating the physiological need for refined sugar, we are debating toxicity. You claimed it was toxic. Please provide dosage and context.0 -
Death by sugar..... what a yummy way to go...... *dreams of funnel cakes*0
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Don't let the fact that adult onset, oh wait, type 2 diabetes is skyrocketing along with the consumption of sugar and refined carbohydrates. And that the best treatment for diabetes is a low carb diet.It wasn't called Sugar Diabetes for nothing...
it was called that because the doctors at that time didn't understand the cause of diabetes. They called it that because people had a high blood sugar count, not because they ate too much sugar. But, hey, don't ever let scientific stuff get in the way of good posts on social media sites.
Is it the only factor? Probably not but don't kid yourself -- sugar matters.
never said sugar didn't matter. I said sugar doesn't cause diabetes.0 -
You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. First you should probably start with metabolically how do refined sugars differ from their naturally occurring counterparts.
The history lesson part, frankly, I don't have time for right now. Maybe after dinner, if I still feel like playing. A little research on Google would probably show you the truth, but I can see you aren't that sort of guy.
The sugar part is easy - I am not claiming a metabolic difference between refined sugars and glucose. Read carefully - that isn't what I said. I said the brain can make glucose from sources of carbohydrate other than added refined sugar. In fact, it can make glucose from fat as well.
Nobody needs refined sugar in their diet. Punto, period, end of story. It's yummy, though.
I did read what you said, so by your logic, naturally occurring sugars in fruits and veggies are toxic/harmful
"The simple answer is: Yes, refined sugar is essentially toxic."
"But added, processed sugar isn't a requirement at all, and has been proven to be harmful"0 -
I enjoy a good debate, but I really do have to eat. I worked out a lot today. I just stumbled onto this one and thought I'd add my two cents. Didn't know MFP was so lively!
Please do your research on sugar, instead of debating it - look around and make up your own mind. Comparing it to peanut butter is ridiculous. Why not celery? Why not pork rinds ?
Look at sugar for what it is, and do some independent research, if you are really curious.0 -
I have RA which I treat through diet, gentle exercise, herbs and acupuncture. The first thing my therapist took me off of was sugar, not just refined sugar, but even fruit. I can feel the difference in my pain levels when I avoid all forms of sugar and sweeteners, have been doing this for 12 years now.0
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do some independent research
I have. Have you?0 -
I enjoy a good debate, but I really do have to eat. I worked out a lot today. I just stumbled onto this one and thought I'd add my two cents. Didn't know MFP was so lively!
Please do your research on sugar, instead of debating it - look around and make up your own mind. Comparing it to peanut butter is ridiculous. Why not celery? Why not pork rinds ?
Look at sugar for what it is, and do some independent research, if you are really curious.
I look at sugar for what it is all the time. It's a sweetner that has a lot of calories. And if I eat too much of it, I gain weight. Same thing that happens if I eat too much peanut butter. Or too much chicken. Or too much potato salad.
BUT, sugar does not have the same effect on my body as toxins like Draino, chlorine bleach, hydrochloric acid, or gasoline have if I consume them.
TOXINS- poison. Sugar- NOT poison.
Now, if we want to really get some people posting in this thread, we need to say the secret word ASP---AME and presto, 1000 posts.....0 -
I have RA which I treat through diet, gentle exercise, herbs and acupuncture. The first thing my therapist took me off of was sugar, not just refined sugar, but even fruit. I can feel the difference in my pain levels when I avoid all forms of sugar and sweeteners, have been doing this for 12 years now.
sure, in some specific medical circumstances, sugar is bad for you. In general, no.0 -
Now, if we want to really get some people posting in this thread, we need to say the secret word ASP---AME and presto, 1000 posts.....
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!0 -
I enjoy a good debate, but I really do have to eat. I worked out a lot today. I just stumbled onto this one and thought I'd add my two cents. Didn't know MFP was so lively!
Please do your research on sugar, instead of debating it - look around and make up your own mind. Comparing it to peanut butter is ridiculous. Why not celery? Why not pork rinds ?
Look at sugar for what it is, and do some independent research, if you are really curious.
I look at sugar for what it is all the time. It's a sweetner that has a lot of calories. And if I eat too much of it, I gain weight. Same thing that happens if I eat too much peanut butter. Or too much chicken. Or too much potato salad.
BUT, sugar does not have the same effect on my body as toxins like Draino, chlorine bleach, hydrochloric acid, or gasoline have if I consume them.
TOXINS- poison. Sugar- NOT poison.
Now, if we want to really get some people posting in this thread, we need to say the secret word ASP---AME and presto, 1000 posts.....
acylation stimulating protein? heard that was a myth0 -
I enjoy a good debate, but I really do have to eat. I worked out a lot today. I just stumbled onto this one and thought I'd add my two cents. Didn't know MFP was so lively!
Please do your research on sugar, instead of debating it - look around and make up your own mind. Comparing it to peanut butter is ridiculous. Why not celery? Why not pork rinds ?
Look at sugar for what it is, and do some independent research, if you are really curious.
Just because people haven't reached the same conclusions as you doesn't mean they haven't thoroughly researched a topic themselves. They asked you a question, and you're giving the run around.0 -
First: I am not arguing either side of the argument. I just wanted to clear something up.
"Toxic" doesn't necessarily mean it will kill you. Your body (liver) will, however, process a toxin before other nutrients. For instance, alcohol is a toxin so your liver prioritizes the processing of alcohol and stops metabolizing fats until the alcohol has been broken down. The same holds true to environmental toxins and all other toxins.
As mentioned before, I am not taking sides because I have never looked into what happens with refined sugar. I just wanted people to understand the word "toxic" in this context.0 -
First: I am not arguing either side of the argument. I just wanted to clear something up.
"Toxic" doesn't necessarily mean it will kill you. Your body (liver) will, however, process a toxin before other nutrients. For instance, alcohol is a toxin so your liver prioritizes the processing of alcohol and stops metabolizing fats until the alcohol has been broken down. The same holds true to environmental toxins and all other toxins.
As mentioned before, I am not taking sides because I have never looked into what happens with refined sugar. I just wanted people to understand the word "toxic" in this context.
yes, there is a difference between the words "toxin" and "toxic". The original post used the word "toxic" which gets you the definition something like "acting as or having the effect of a poison". We can pull the definition for "poison" if needed.....0 -
yes, there is a difference between the words "toxin" and "toxic". The original post used the word "toxic" which gets you the definition something like "acting as or having the effect of a poison". We can pull the definition for "poison" if needed.....
True, but toxic, according to Merriam Webster, doesn't necessarily kill you either since the words "serious debilitation" are in the definition. In reality, it is all semantics anyway. I eat sugar so I don't give two poops about this debate.
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Just because people haven't reached the same conclusions as you doesn't mean they haven't thoroughly researched a topic themselves. They asked you a question, and you're giving the run around.
*throws down glove*
why, good sir (?), i take umbrage at this disparagement of my character!
I will endlessly debate any point, even if the point keeps being changed from what i said to something i did not say, simply because i have nothing better to do! have at thee!!!
seriously, though. is the question one of toxicity and dosage? sorry, i don't have that information, nor the will to find it for you. you win. congratulations!
i suspect that when the tobacco industries were first questioned about their product, they replied with similar statements: "our product, which brings such pleasure to so many, harmful? but, i've used it for years, with nary an ill effect. sure, *some* people get sick, but that doesn't prove anything. toxicity and dosage, please!"0 -
i'm allergic to sugar. it makes me fat. ;D
^^my fave quote. heh. but its true. people binge on sugar/carbs because theyre comfort foods.
i now binge on salad, and its just not the same.
True. Salad is nothing like sugar.0 -
Even water can be toxic in high enough doses. That said overtime with excessive ingestion and perhaps sometimes even not so excessive people can develop an intolerance to sugar which can escalate into other health problems.0
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Symptoms of ketogenesis is what diabetics need to go to hospital for. Shouldn't really be strived for by a healthy indivdual. We produce our own sugar from fat and/or protein only when our brains are in dire need of CHO, hence the nasty side effects. And the metabolic cycle requires CHO in order to process fat and protein. It's part of the Krebs cycle. Do we "need" "processed" sugar? Define need and define processed. There's so much marketing mumbo jumbo out there that anyone who can read a food label thinks they're a nutritionist/RD.
Good luck to you all.0 -
Symptoms of ketogenesis is what diabetics need to go to hospital for. Shouldn't really be strived for by a healthy indivdual.
That's ketoacidosis - way on the other end of the pH scale. Ketosis is different.
I don't think anyone was advocating it - just saying that the brain can be fueled by fat as well as carbohydrate/glucose/0 -
You might not want to believe it, but it's true. And the American Diabetes Association has nothing to gain from you knowing how toxic it is.
What is that supposed to mean? That the ADA has a secret agenda?
At a molecular level, sugar is sugar whether it is in fruit or candy. It breaks down to the same thing. However, there's way more of it in candy, which is why consumption needs to be limited and why dosage is important.0 -
Uh NO Not True . The brain's fuel is fat. The body does need ANY added sugar to function.The only source of fuel for your brain is sugar. So, well ... you tell me.0 -
Uh NO Not True . The brain's fuel is fat. The body does need ANY added sugar to function.The only source of fuel for your brain is sugar. So, well ... you tell me.
Actually, the brain needs some glucose (which is what all carbohydrate metabolises down to, not just 'sugar') to function optimally.
The key point being that it does not need to come from the diet, the liver can make enough through a process called gluconeogenesis.0 -
>>Upon doing a Google search, the only source of claims of the toxicity of sugar is Dr. Robert Lustig. Every single article that mentions sugar as being toxic or poisonous links back to him. Generally, when information is coming from one source, it is not reliable. There were no direct studies about fructose as a whole being toxic, but there was a mention of research from University of California Davis which is suggesting that excess consumption of high fructose corn syrup could increase your cholesterol, which can then increase risk for heart disease.
A Google Scholar search turned up absolutely nothing. Not a single article. Unless, of course, you're concerned about a type of sugar that is toxic to honey bees. <<
Wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHgChvUwh8
(jorge Cruze and Dr. Oz on sugar as a toxin)0 -
As we are looking way back then John Yudkin's "Pure White And Deadly" book from the 70s is probably relevant.
There is also a strangely priescent documentary "The Sugar Trap" on YouTube from 1986:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcH9K_RvYk
Look, I am not saying a bit of sugar is bad and maybe calling it 'toxic' is a bit much but it's in so much processed junk that it's so difficult to avoid.
Lustig also has some issues with both the facts in his presentations (documented by Zoe Harcombe on her website) and a credibility problem, i.e. he is sugar-fixated, podgy and admits to eating bagels and junk.
Call me crazy but I'd rather listen to someone like Mark Sisson or Robb Wolf for a decent well-rounded view of what constitutes good health.0
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