Running...help or hinder weight loss??

LauraMarie37

There are two types of muscle fibres. Fast type 11 and slow twitch type 1. In general slow running will build slow twitch muscle which uses oxygen has good blood supply and generally is aerobic. Slow twitch contracts more weakly but can contract repeatedly. these are used in endurance exercise such as marathon running and are why such athletes have lean long muscles. Essentially slow twitch fibres contract slowly in the presence of glucose they are cross chained.
Fast twitch muscle fibres are used in explosive exercise such as sprinting and are anaerobic activity. They give 'shape' to muscles and will be more compact and dense.

So it depends on your running: are you long slow endurance or fast explosive sprint. Or are you mixing on a treadmill. You can be building either slow twitch or fast twitch muscle fibres. Is this preset? Apparently not, muscle composition can change as form follows function.

Yes you can build muscle of different types. Slow twitch will not give definition to the muscle shape but its there. Yes you will burn muscle if you exercise intensively without glucose available. Preferentially the body will burn glucose from the blood circulation, glycogen is converted to fuel and is stored in muscles and then will convert fat to burn, finally it will use muscle.

Muscles will retain water when damaged or inflamed otherwise it isn't trapped in a muscle. Other retention is due to lymphatic drainage being poor.

Women find it hard without the higher testosterone levels of men to build fast muscle fibre, but with weight training of the right kind and persistence form can be achieved. When losing weight without compensating exercise it appears that it is fast fibres that are lost first. Since fast fibres burn more calories even at rest this will cause problems after diet with weight gain. Fast fibres are also lost with age where there is little exercise undertaken.
I haven't see any studies which elucidate which type of fast twitch are built under which circumstances, if any one can point me in that direction please.

Please comment as I would love to chat this through a little more.
Jasmin

This woman is correct. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there!

Yes, you can gain/maintain muscle - mostly your aerobic muscles, ie slow-twitch - during calorie deficit. Your heart would be a good example - do you think the people on Biggest Loser have just as strong heart muscles when they arrive as when they leave? No, their heart muscle (and other muscles) definitely gain strength. I'm pretty sure they are in a (extreme) calorie deficit the whole time.

A s Jasmin said above, anaerobic (fast twitch) muscles are the ones that give the really noticeable shape to muscles - those are what bodybuilders are going for, and those are much harder to build/maintain. I don't know all the scientific studies on this one, but I'd bet you can even build those in a calorie deficit (look at Allyson Felix - any sprinter has great fast-twitch muscles). But I'll agree that's much harder and much less likely unless you are in a calorie surplus, and testosterone does make it easier (though it's definitely not necessary).

As to the OP, and weight loss issues, I'd go back and check your calorie intake log - how well are you measuring things? Are you accounting for everything - spices you add to food, the oil it's cooked in, etc? Are you weighing/measuring your portion sizes? Most people are really terrible at estimating their food intake.

If you find you are really accurate with your calorie log, then perhaps you are eating too little. There are a lot of people on this site who are big proponents of eating back your exercise calories, and have lost more weight once they started eating more, as crazy as that sounds. There are links in my signature with more info.

Finally, if your food seems ok, then maybe you need to push yourself more in training. You should be pushing yourself enough that what you do gets easier every week or two - at which point you'll want to run faster, or farther, or do speed work/hills, or something different. (But you DEFINITELY want to do rest days - don't skip those!!) If you aren't pushing yourself, it's probably not going to give you noticeable results nearly as quickly.

Best of luck!

carriann2012

Running has helped me and I love it and I feel 100% better when I do. I also lift weights twice a week. It has taken me a year to loose 30lbs but well worth it!! I know it's the combination of both ~ Just give it some time ~ you can add me if you want ~ Good Luck!! :bigsmile:

marijasmin

A minor adjustment to my earlier post.

In order to build muscle, there has to be essential amino acid in the diet. Good quality protein is needed to build and repair muscle. Even if a diet was well in surplus if these essential building blocks aren't there at the right time muscle can't be built. They might be stolen from elsewhere in the body though: thought to be skin hair and gut muscle. But those proteins are broken down not good.

Cardiac muscle is a special sort of muscle called smooth muscle. The fibres don't knot or twist or make lots of cross chains. Cardiac muscle can repair itself very slowly (est 1% pa) but generally good skeletal muscle helps the heart by returning blood easily to the heart. Helps heart health and lowers pumping rate by the heart. Heart muscle also needs essential protein to repair itself.

Jasmin

skinnygurl02

First off.. You are not gaining muscle.. not even a teeny tiny bit. Unless you doing heavy strength training, eating in a calorie surplus and taking steroids, there is no way muscle is being gained.

Second, what you are prob. seeing is water retention from the muscles healing... which means you are going to see the scale go up temporarily, but it won't last long.

Third, how are you measuring calorie burns from the runs? It could be possible that you are overestimating calories burned and eating too much.. and that will also hinder weight loss.

Fourth, please start strength training.. running is great and all, but strength training will help you preserve muscle and lose mainly fat instead of fat and muscle.

Wrong, I notice the best leanest muscles in my calves from running and my butt muscles is really developing!

Thank you Tsbrenia!! Love ya girly! You r always my "go to" girl for the running info, U ROCK!!

Enigmatica

Walking and running have worked just fine for me. :happy:

skinnygurl02

I've been running distance for over 15 years, competitively. If you are running distance you are not going to "gain" muscle to the point that you notice. You will gain some, but mostly you will define and tone the muscle you already have.

If you're "gaining muscle" to the point you can notice it, from running, only 2.5 miles, it's not muscle gain.

***Edit*** 12 miles per week for 6 weeks, for sure will not be "muscle gain". I don't know the full story here, but a person upping their cardiovascular exercise should be losing weight. Running will burn fat, and actually, when pushed hard enough....it will burn muscle.

Sorry, I should of clarified. I assume I am building some sort of muscle but, no I can't look at my legs and tell, they just look more toned up. Guess I was really wondering why I am doing all this running and not dropping the weight even with a calorie deficit. Thanks:)

skinnygurl02

I've been running distance for over 15 years, competitively. If you are running distance you are not going to "gain" muscle to the point that you notice. You will gain some, but mostly you will define and tone the muscle you already have.

If you're "gaining muscle" to the point you can notice it, from running, only 2.5 miles, it's not muscle gain.

***Edit*** 12 miles per week for 6 weeks, for sure will not be "muscle gain". A person should be losing weight.

Thank you.

Sorry, I should of clarified. I assume I am building some sort of muscle but, no I can't look at my legs and tell, they just look more toned up. Guess I was really wondering why I am doing all this running and not dropping the weight even with a calorie deficit. Thanks:)

skinnygurl02

:indifferent: OK so the nice lady seemed to be asking why she is not losing weight...maybe we can all leave our opinions out of it and tell her what we did to lose weight (as some did and thank you for that).

I personally weighed 250lbs one year ago, I started running on a regular basis, i started eating right, i started losing weight. the only muscle that I have gained is in my legs. I currently run between 40 and 50km per week, and recently started adding some core training (weights, situps, pushups, planks). My weigh in on Sunday was 189lbs.

Hope this was helpful :ohwell:

Thank you!! Thank you!!

skinnygurl02

There are two types of muscle fibres. Fast type 11 and slow twitch type 1. In general slow running will build slow twitch muscle which uses oxygen has good blood supply and generally is aerobic. Slow twitch contracts more weakly but can contract repeatedly. these are used in endurance exercise such as marathon running and are why such athletes have lean long muscles. Essentially slow twitch fibres contract slowly in the presence of glucose they are cross chained.
Fast twitch muscle fibres are used in explosive exercise such as sprinting and are anaerobic activity. They give 'shape' to muscles and will be more compact and dense.

So it depends on your running: are you long slow endurance or fast explosive sprint. Or are you mixing on a treadmill. You can be building either slow twitch or fast twitch muscle fibres. Is this preset? Apparently not, muscle composition can change as form follows function.

Yes you can build muscle of different types. Slow twitch will not give definition to the muscle shape but its there. Yes you will burn muscle if you exercise intensively without glucose available. Preferentially the body will burn glucose from the blood circulation, glycogen is converted to fuel and is stored in muscles and then will convert fat to burn, finally it will use muscle.

Muscles will retain water when damaged or inflamed otherwise it isn't trapped in a muscle. Other retention is due to lymphatic drainage being poor.

Women find it hard without the higher testosterone levels of men to build fast muscle fibre, but with weight training of the right kind and persistence form can be achieved. When losing weight without compensating exercise it appears that it is fast fibres that are lost first. Since fast fibres burn more calories even at rest this will cause problems after diet with weight gain. Fast fibres are also lost with age where there is little exercise undertaken.
I haven't see any studies which elucidate which type of fast twitch are built under which circumstances, if any one can point me in that direction please.

Please comment as I would love to chat this through a little more.
Jasmin

This woman is correct. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there!

Yes, you can gain/maintain muscle - mostly your aerobic muscles, ie slow-twitch - during calorie deficit. Your heart would be a good example - do you think the people on Biggest Loser have just as strong heart muscles when they arrive as when they leave? No, their heart muscle (and other muscles) definitely gain strength. I'm pretty sure they are in a (extreme) calorie deficit the whole time.

A s Jasmin said above, anaerobic (fast twitch) muscles are the ones that give the really noticeable shape to muscles - those are what bodybuilders are going for, and those are much harder to build/maintain. I don't know all the scientific studies on this one, but I'd bet you can even build those in a calorie deficit (look at Allyson Felix - any sprinter has great fast-twitch muscles). But I'll agree that's much harder and much less likely unless you are in a calorie surplus, and testosterone does make it easier (though it's definitely not necessary).

As to the OP, and weight loss issues, I'd go back and check your calorie intake log - how well are you measuring things? Are you accounting for everything - spices you add to food, the oil it's cooked in, etc? Are you weighing/measuring your portion sizes? Most people are really terrible at estimating their food intake.

If you find you are really accurate with your calorie log, then perhaps you are eating too little. There are a lot of people on this site who are big proponents of eating back your exercise calories, and have lost more weight once they started eating more, as crazy as that sounds. There are links in my signature with more info.

Finally, if your food seems ok, then maybe you need to push yourself more in training. You should be pushing yourself enough that what you do gets easier every week or two - at which point you'll want to run faster, or farther, or do speed work/hills, or something different. (But you DEFINITELY want to do rest days - don't skip those!!) If you aren't pushing yourself, it's probably not going to give you noticeable results nearly as quickly.

Best of luck!

Thank you SOOOO much:)

NikkiSixGuns

My personal experience...

I started running at the end of last year (over a year after I achieved my goal weight, so I took it up out of curiosity rather than a desire to lose weight). Nothing extreme: about 3.5 miles 3 - 5 times/week. Been doing it ever since.

I didn't lose at all during the first 5 months of running. I actually gained a couple of pounds.

About three months ago I added in more strength training using free weights and body-weight exercises. I'd been doing some prior to then, but pretty moderate amounts. I doubled the weight I was lifting and within a month I noticed my weight dropping. Overall it's dropped about 5 pounds, and I have far more defined and noticeable muscle than I did prior to increasing the weight training.

Not sure why it's gone down instead of up (since muscle weighs more than fat) but whatever. My clothes fit better, I've lost inches, and I like the way my body looks now.

That's just what happened for me. Short story - I highly recommend resistance training!

Good luck!

skinnygurl02

My personal experience...

I started running at the end of last year (over a year after I achieved my goal weight, so I took it up out of curiosity rather than a desire to lose weight). Nothing extreme: about 3.5 miles 3 - 5 times/week. Been doing it ever since.

I didn't lose at all during the first 5 months of running. I actually gained a couple of pounds.

About three months ago I added in more strength training using free weights and body-weight exercises. I'd been doing some prior to then, but pretty moderate amounts. I doubled the weight I was lifting and within a month I noticed my weight dropping. Overall it's dropped about 5 pounds, and I have far more defined and noticeable muscle than I did prior to increasing the weight training.

Not sure why it's gone down instead of up (since muscle weighs more than fat) but whatever. My clothes fit better, I've lost inches, and I like the way my body looks now.

That's just what happened for me. Short story - I highly recommend resistance training!

Good luck!

Thank you so much! Did you do any dvds or just do your own thing? Guess my question would be how would I learn how to begin this? I have done Jillian Micheals 30 DS but am pretty sure you are talking about a different kind of exercise. Thanks!!

CarsonRuns

Um, correct? Sorry, but it's a scientific fact that the body will eat muscle during extreme cardiovascular exercise (distance running), if you push too hard. I didn't say "everyone loses muscle by running" did I? It takes an absolute TON of exercise to add/lose enough muscle to notice it on the scale.

You define "extreme" as "distance running". What distance? How long? Not just your opinion, but show me some research that defines at what point the perfectly healthy body will turn on itself and start devouring muscle. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Meh, here's a quick google search. If you want go into the "Advanced Search" and find some .edu or .gov stuff, go ahead. I was basically not trying to write a novel on how once glycogen stores have been depleted the body will turn to the amino acids stored in muscles (burning muscle). You want a time and distance, who the hell knows, everyone is different. If you correctly fuel your body and keep it fueled during the duration of the exercise, it won't happen.

It's extreme, but it can happen.

Bold added by me for emphasis.

The point I was trying to make, which you have actually helped confirm, is that the body only starts to cannibalize muscle under extreme conditions. Extreme is not 10 hours or running a week, but even if it was, you state about that if you properly fuel it won't happen.

I see this "doing aerobic exercise only destroys muscle" argument thrown around here as a reason to do strength training too, when in reality, this is a non-issue. Unless you don't eat and are doing umpteen gagillion hours of cardio, your body isn't going to turn on itself. Now, is adding strength training to your program going to help you lose weight faster and produce a nice looking body? Sure! But if you don't do strength training, only run, and eat at a slight caloric deficit, you aren't going to waste away.

Opinion? Really? Maybe science has changed since the last time I Certified, but whatever.

That wasn't meant to be a slight, but just to reinforce that I wanted to see some data about at what point the body starts burn muscle. No disrespect intended.

Sabine_Stroehm

Building strength and building muscle are two separate things honey.

Wow, condescending much "honey". SMH and done with this.

Every post she's made on this thread has been rude and condescending. I guess that's what some folks call "supportive".
Sigh. Good to see some others actually tried to help the OP out.

Sabine_Stroehm

:indifferent: OK so the nice lady seemed to be asking why she is not losing weight...maybe we can all leave our opinions out of it and tell her what we did to lose weight (as some did and thank you for that).

I personally weighed 250lbs one year ago, I started running on a regular basis, i started eating right, i started losing weight. the only muscle that I have gained is in my legs. I currently run between 40 and 50km per week, and recently started adding some core training (weights, situps, pushups, planks). My weigh in on Sunday was 189lbs.

Hope this was helpful :ohwell:

:drinker: :flowerforyou:

Thank you!!

jellebeandesigns

I love to run! I can a)tell I have lost fat and b) tell I have gained muscle. My waist/hips arenas as big but my thighs are bigger. I am in Colorado and run outside so everything I run is up hill to an extent (meaning I don't long run the Rockies every weekend).

The people saying you won't build from running aren't doing to right. Run a hill and you will gain muscle! I don't lift at all, body weight work outs only

RGv2

DP

RGv2

I love to run! I can a)tell I have lost fat and b) tell I have gained muscle. My waist/hips arenas as big but my thighs are bigger. I am in Colorado and run outside so everything I run is up hill to an extent (meaning I don't long run the Rockies every weekend).

The people saying you won't build from running aren't doing to right. Run a hill and you will gain muscle! I don't lift at all, body weight work outs only

People aren't saying you can't build muscle from running. Hills and Sprints will build muscle. Just going out for a 2 mile run on a flat path or treadmill, isn't going to do it.

***Edit*** To the point that you'd really notice.

RGv2

Um, correct? Sorry, but it's a scientific fact that the body will eat muscle during extreme cardiovascular exercise (distance running), if you push too hard. I didn't say "everyone loses muscle by running" did I? It takes an absolute TON of exercise to add/lose enough muscle to notice it on the scale.

You define "extreme" as "distance running". What distance? How long? Not just your opinion, but show me some research that defines at what point the perfectly healthy body will turn on itself and start devouring muscle. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Meh, here's a quick google search. If you want go into the "Advanced Search" and find some .edu or .gov stuff, go ahead. I was basically not trying to write a novel on how once glycogen stores have been depleted the body will turn to the amino acids stored in muscles (burning muscle). You want a time and distance, who the hell knows, everyone is different. If you correctly fuel your body and keep it fueled during the duration of the exercise, it won't happen.

It's extreme, but it can happen.

Bold added by me for emphasis.

The point I was trying to make, which you have actually helped confirm, is that the body only starts to cannibalize muscle under extreme conditions. Extreme is not 10 hours or running a week, but even if it was, you state about that if you properly fuel it won't happen.

I see this "doing aerobic exercise only destroys muscle" argument thrown around here as a reason to do strength training too, when in reality, this is a non-issue. Unless you don't eat and are doing umpteen gagillion hours of cardio, your body isn't going to turn on itself. Now, is adding strength training to your program going to help you lose weight faster and produce a nice looking body? Sure! But if you don't do strength training, only run, and eat at a slight caloric deficit, you aren't going to waste away.

Opinion? Really? Maybe science has changed since the last time I Certified, but whatever.

That wasn't meant to be a slight, but just to reinforce that I wanted to see some data about at what point the body starts burn muscle. No disrespect intended.

No Problem.

I was just trying to make the point that gluconeogenesis is real. The people on this site it's going to affect (if at all) are those who are pushing themselves hard in they gym, but cut calories at a super low level.

It doesn't take a "gagillion" hours of cardio to do damage. An hour of pushing outside your limits without proper fueling could do it for some.

Agreed that cardio isn't going to cause a person to "waste away". It's like weight training. If you don't fuel before and eat proplerly after to help recovery...it will hinder results.

draculaspointer

Ive been running for a few months now and run about 20-25 miles per week. I have not lost significant weight with running, but I was in the "normal" bmi from the beginning. Even though I have only lost 6 pounds total, I have dropped inches off my legs, waist, hips, chest, and even arms. I went from a size 10 jeans to a size 6 and Im starting to slip out of those. I net between 1600-1800 calories a day which mfp thinks should make me lose 1 pound per week. I havent lost a pound since my third week running. Ive gotten over the weight and now focus on composition and size. Obviously running has done great things to my body shape and composition, even though it hasnt done significant things on the scale.

So my advice...dont worry so much on the scale and take measurements of everything! You may see more of a difference with measurements than on the scale. Of course, it depends on how much you have to lose as well. And it can take a while to really start seeing results. When I went from walking to running, it took almost a month to lose an inch. But after that, its been coming off rapidly. Actually Im kinda at a plateau now, and think Ill be here a while...there's only so small a body can shrink and still be healthy.

Edit: I should add that a few days a week I also do body weight exercises (pushups, situps, squat jumps) and/or 30DS or Biggest Loser Kinect. But I attribute 90% of my progress to running as I only recently started adding in those other things.

SoDamnHungry

First off.. You are not gaining muscle.. not even a teeny tiny bit. Unless you doing heavy strength training, eating in a calorie surplus and taking steroids, there is no way muscle is being gained.

Second, what you are prob. seeing is water retention from the muscles healing... which means you are going to see the scale go up temporarily, but it won't last long.

Third, how are you measuring calorie burns from the runs? It could be possible that you are overestimating calories burned and eating too much.. and that will also hinder weight loss.

Fourth, please start strength training.. running is great and all, but strength training will help you preserve muscle and lose mainly fat instead of fat and muscle.

Wrong, I notice the best leanest muscles in my calves from running and my butt muscles is really developing!

And my abs look great when I run!