intermittent fasting critis

samhigh

I have been doing the www.LeanGains.com method of IF for six months. Huge thanks to Martin, internet high lord of IF, and also to Andy at www.rippedbody.jp for their tremendous service to anyone intelligent enough to challenge, or at least question, some of the mainstream and institutionalized approaches to fitness and nutrition.

Just so you know, the original creator of IF was "Ori Hofmekler" The author of "The Warrior Diet" it was published in 2003.

Leangains.com has been active since 2009.

Good to know. Props to that guy as well. Many people, and lab mice, have contributed to Martin's particular method.

Eat Stop Eat has also been successful for many people, not sure when that dude started.

meerkat70

So would you recommend trying it?

I have done it and lost 32 pounds.like I said do your homework and yes I do.can't hurt anything

When you say 'do your homework', did you mean the almost total lack of human trials?

(I have no issue with IF - people have done this for centuries without naming it as such. But there is a lack of current research... only a couple of trials to date.)

asgumbs86

Intermittent fasting when done properly actually is a very powerful tool, if you want to find out more about it read

http://cutandjacked.com/Intermittent-Fasting-For-Fat-Loss

Just remembering everything has a balance, you don't have to be as strict as what one thing says but you take from it and make it your own to suit your needs and goals, that is the same for any type of training or any type of diet.

Intermittent fasting is definately worth a try and its a really good way of changing eating habits. Hope that link helps anyone curious about intermittent fastinging, also their is a really good article on that site about carb cycling.

Enjoy :happy:

ZivileZu

I did IF for 6 months a couple of years ago. Turned out to be great for my health too - according to my doctor after a very thorough check up.

Trying to get back to it now. First week in at the moment.

meerkat70

Intermittent fasting when done properly actually is a very powerful tool, if you want to find out more about it read

http://cutandjacked.com/Intermittent-Fasting-For-Fat-Loss

Just remembering everything has a balance, you don't have to be as strict as what one thing says but you take from it and make it your own to suit your needs and goals, that is the same for any type of training or any type of diet.

Intermittent fasting is definately worth a try and its a really good way of changing eating habits. Hope that link helps anyone curious about intermittent fastinging, also their is a really good article on that site about carb cycling.

Enjoy :happy:

Again, this is all lovely, and I have no problem with IF per se. But that's an article, not research. There's no real evidence base for the claims being made about this. I honestly can't see anything harmful in IF, and if it works for people, that's fab. Just be wary of some of the claims....

clobercow

Intermittent fasting when done properly actually is a very powerful tool, if you want to find out more about it read

http://cutandjacked.com/Intermittent-Fasting-For-Fat-Loss

Just remembering everything has a balance, you don't have to be as strict as what one thing says but you take from it and make it your own to suit your needs and goals, that is the same for any type of training or any type of diet.

Intermittent fasting is definately worth a try and its a really good way of changing eating habits. Hope that link helps anyone curious about intermittent fastinging, also their is a really good article on that site about carb cycling.

Enjoy :happy:

Again, this is all lovely, and I have no problem with IF per se. But that's an article, not research. There's no real evidence base for the claims being made about this. I honestly can't see anything harmful in IF, and if it works for people, that's fab. Just be wary of some of the claims....

That same advice could be said for just about EVERYTHING said about fat loss and everything related. I've seen studies done that completely contradict each other. I decided to try IF. I am hooked and it didn't take me long to identify that what is said is true. I may be different that most people, but I can say that all of the claims that didn't sound like complete bull****, are true. I could rattle off a bunch of them, but I'm not trying to sell this to you. Could it be placebo? Could it be real? That's up for you to decide if you chose to try it.

meerkat70

That's simply not true, clober. There's a pretty consistent evidence base for many weightloss related practices. For instance, we know how cals in and out work, we understand the relative benefits of protein intake, carb reduction, resistance training, endurance work, HIIT.

However, with IF, there aren't just weightloss claims (which really can be explained largely through overall calorie reduction) there are also claims around the impact on ageing, for instance. There's pretty much NO human trial based evidence for this. There're are also few human trials comparing weightloss from IF vs weightloss from ordinary cal reduction.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a minimal evidence base. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone should stop on the basis of this, and if you're benefiting from it, that's absolutely great, and I'm genuinely happy for you. But don't be suggesting that critics haven't 'done their homework', since reading up on this practice is pretty challenging, given that there's not much out there to read.....

stephvaile

BBC Horizon did a show on this recently. It was very interesting and looked at fasts from eating only 50 calories per day for four days a month through to fasting every other day. In the end the guy who made the film went with eating only 500 to 60) calories in one meal two days a week. He didn't always have those two days consecutively. Other than that he didn't change his diet. He lost 14lbs in 5 weeks and his body fat dropped significantly. Various blood measures improved also.

He said it was the show that has had the biggest impact on him. He was so convinced of the benefits he decided to adopt the fasting into his life.

The suggested benefits are that the reduced calorie intake (perhaps specifically reduced protein intake) reduces IGF1 (human growth hormone) which is related to age related diseases. Also, there is evidence that hunger sends signals the the brain to start repairing itself thus reducing risk of age related brain deterioration.

Very interesting show.

Intermittent fasting
One area of current research into diet is Alternate Day fasting (ADF), involving eating what you want one day, then a very restricted diet (fewer than 600 calories) the next, and most surprisingly, it does not seem to matter that much what you eat on non-fast days.

Dr Krista Varady of the University of Illinois at Chicago carried out an eight-week trial comparing two groups of overweight patients on ADF.

"If you were sticking to your fast days, then in terms of cardiovascular disease risk, it didn't seem to matter if you were eating a high-fat or low-fat diet on your feed (non-fast) days," she said.

I decided I couldn't manage ADF, it was just too impractical. Instead I did an easier version, the so-called 5:2 diet. As the name implies you eat normally 5 days a week, then two days a week you eat 500 calories if you are a woman, or 600 calories, if you are a man.

There are no firm rules because so far there have been few proper human trials. I found that I could get through my fast days best if I had a light breakfast (scrambled eggs, thin slice of ham, lots of black tea, adding up to about 300 calories), lots of water and herbal tea during the day, then a light dinner (grilled fish with lots of vegetables) at night.

Continue reading the main story
Healthy living

What is a healthy weight?
Being active may depend on finding a form of exercise which suits you
A diet and fitness plan can help physical and mental health
Source: BBC health

How to make your lifestyle more healthy
On my feed days I ate what I normally do and felt no need to gorge.

I stuck to this diet for 5 weeks, during which time I lost nearly a stone and my blood markers, like IGF-1, glucose and cholesterol, improved. If I can sustain that, it will greatly reduce my risk of contracting age-related diseases like cancer and diabetes.

Current medical opinion is that the benefits of fasting are unproven and until there are more human studies it's better to eat at least 2000 calories a day. If you really want to fast then you should do it in a proper clinic or under medical supervision, because there are many people, such as pregnant women or diabetics on medication, for whom it could be dangerous.

I was closely monitored throughout and found the 5:2 surprisingly easy. I will almost certainly continue doing it, albeit less often. Fasting, like eating, is best done in moderation.

Michael Mosley presents Horizon: Eat, Fast and Live Longer on BBC Two at 21:00 BST on Monday 6 August. Watch online afterwards via iPlayer (UK only) or browse Horizon clips at the above link.

this is the article to the horizon programme i thought i may give this ago for 4 weeks and see how i feel

meerkat70

Where comparisons are available:


http://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-9343(94)90302-6/abstract
Use in obesity linked diabetes:
"The intermittent VLCD improved weight loss and glycemic control, but these effects were quite modest and do not appear to justify the clinical use of an intermittent VLCD"

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=intermittent+fasting+weightloss+&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=

comparing calorie restriction to an intermittent fasting regimen:
"Last observation carried forward analysis showed that IER and CER are equally effective for weight loss"
i.e. no difference between the two groups.

This is the pattern of the research. It works fine. It doesn't appear to have any particular advantage over more traditional forms of calorie counting.

myofibril

Could it be placebo? Could it be real?

I think that's rather the point of having further research, preferably in a controlled rather than free living environment, with a decent methodology.

Unfortunately IF seems to be going much the same way as the low carb movement in some of the exaggerated and cherry picked claims that are made on its behalf.

I do think that IF has many benefits, particularly if improving your body composition is your primary focus as it really helps with adherence. Does it have any significant benefit over an isocaloric diet spread over say 3-4 meal? Not really. In addition, if your goals are more athletic than aesthetic (which is probably the minority of people) I think it is a sub optimal choice much like low carb. I agree with Anthony Colpo's assessment in this regard.

meerkat70

Unfortunately IF seems to be going much the same way as the low carb movement in some of the exaggerated and cherry picked claims that are made on its behalf.

This is *exactly* it for me. I see no problem with the practice. But when people start claiming it's a source of eternal youth, cures cancer and will fix global poverty, I start to get a little agitated.

darrensurrey

What I would like to know is whether IF helps those at the lower end of the BF range eg 14%.

myofibril

What I would like to know is whether IF helps those at the lower end of the BF range eg 14%.

If it suits your preferences as an individual then absolutely.

darrensurrey

What I would like to know is whether IF helps those at the lower end of the BF range eg 14%.

If it suits your preferences as an individual then absolutely.

You mean it might not work for some?

clobercow

That's simply not true, clober. There's a pretty consistent evidence base for many weightloss related practices. For instance, we know how cals in and out work, we understand the relative benefits of protein intake, carb reduction, resistance training, endurance work, HIIT.

However, with IF, there aren't just weightloss claims (which really can be explained largely through overall calorie reduction) there are also claims around the impact on ageing, for instance. There's pretty much NO human trial based evidence for this. There're are also no human trials comparing weightloss from IF vs weightloss from ordinary cal reduction.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there's no evidence base. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone should stop on the basis of this, and if you're benefiting from it, that's absolutely great, and I'm genuinely happy for you. But don't be suggesting that critics haven't 'done their homework', since reading up on this practice is pretty challenging, given that there's not much out there to read.....

Actually, I think weight loss is not as simple as calories in vs calories out. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that hormonal behaviors and how individual foods effect them matter just as much. Food addiction is a real problem for obesity and health, and has little to do with calories in vs calories out.. Caloric deficit makes sense to an extent, but It's overly simplistic. I agree that carb reduction is critical and resistance training is important as well and drastically underestimated in its effects.

Clearly what I said is anecdotal and is what I believe. I also suggested that it could be placebo and it's clearly my opinion. So I don't see any "bad news" so to speak. However, I also disagree with what you said. For decades the normal american diet was breakfast at 8:00am and dinner at 6:00pm. It has come clear, that as this normality started disappearing decades ago, obesity started to grow. That is a different topic though. I haven't checked, but there has to be a study somewhere that has something similar. After all, that is 14 hours between those two meals and does fall under the definition of IF that is commonly used and is very close to a normal diet frequency.

There are many areas of human anthropology that can support not eating for as little as 12 hours to as many as days at a time as being normal. So knowing that and what you're saying may be technically true, my body tells me that what I'm doing is a good thing and it's responding very positively. I feel better than I ever have, especially better than when I tried other diets just based on the overly simplistic calories in vs calories out. I wont say that you're wrong, just that I disagree and I will recommend this to others. It's up to each person to find out if doing something as simple as moving breakfast a couple of hours later, or moving dinner a couple of hours earlier is right for them. The same thing goes for low carb, or extended fasts which I also benefit from.

myofibril

What I would like to know is whether IF helps those at the lower end of the BF range eg 14%.

If it suits your preferences as an individual then absolutely.

You mean it might not work for some?

Yep, it might not work for everyone. It sits well with some people, not so well with others. Ultimately, it's about what you can adhere to and what you emotionally invest in...

I do think people should experiment with different eating regimes to find which one suits them better. "There are many roads which lead to Rome" and so on.

However, don't get sidelined by the idea that any one approach is significantly better on an inherent basis for all.

darrensurrey

What I would like to know is whether IF helps those at the lower end of the BF range eg 14%.

If it suits your preferences as an individual then absolutely.

You mean it might not work for some?

Yep, it might not work for everyone. It sits well with some people, not so well with others. Ultimately, it's about what you can adhere to and what you emotionally invest in...

I do think people should experiment with different eating regimes to find which one suits them better. "There are many roads which lead to Rome" and so on.

However, don't get sidelined by the idea that any one approach is significantly better on an inherent basis for all.

Thanks. But you're saying it can work for some with lower levels of bodyfat?

myofibril

Thanks. But you're saying it can work for some with lower levels of bodyfat?

For sure.

meerkat70

Thanks. But you're saying it can work for some with lower levels of bodyfat?

For sure.

Though, again, this is based on the 'hey, why not give it a go' principle, rather than on any evidence base.

darrensurrey

Thanks. But you're saying it can work for some with lower levels of bodyfat?

For sure.

Though, again, this is based on the 'hey, why not give it a go' principle, rather than on any evidence base.

Thanks... and thanks. Yes, appreciate the above was with the caveat that it might not work for many.