"Starvation mode", exercise calories, dillema?

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  • hippietofugirl
    hippietofugirl Posts: 430
    Thank you so much for clearing this up! I was so confused before, but now things are clear :flowerforyou:
  • angelalf1979
    angelalf1979 Posts: 244 Member
    Bump
  • billyh333
    billyh333 Posts: 213
    If humans went into true starvation mode after only skipping 1 meal or not eating for a day we would not have survived this long fact not fiction.
  • billyh333
    billyh333 Posts: 213
    And FYI anyone says Intermittent Fasting .in the same phrase as diet. has not idea about nutrition.
  • gjsmommy
    gjsmommy Posts: 90 Member
    Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
  • sicchi
    sicchi Posts: 189 Member
    Bump to continue the reading of this thread


    That is so cute!
  • billyh333
    billyh333 Posts: 213
    Bump to continue the reading of this thread


    That is so cute!
    just curious what does bump mean lol?
  • bbrat333
    bbrat333 Posts: 158 Member
    Bump to read later
  • gemmaleigh1989
    gemmaleigh1989 Posts: 241 Member
    bump for later. from what I skim read, it looks interesting!
  • gemmaleigh1989
    gemmaleigh1989 Posts: 241 Member
    Bump to continue the reading of this thread


    That is so cute!
    just curious what does bump mean lol?

    Whenever you comment on a post, it puts it into your recent read posts on your home page, therefore people "bump" so they can easily find this post later on to read more in depth or whatever
  • nellelaughs
    nellelaughs Posts: 7


    So your body requires a certain amount of calories just to function, this is called your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) and consists of energy needs for autonomic functions such as respiration, involuntary muscle contraction (like digestion and heart function), Central Nervous System activity...etc. Things you have little or no control over. These activities require about 60 to 75% of most people's calories. No matter what you do, you need this many calories to function, this is not a debate. The rest is all subject to variation, thermogenesis (the conversion of calories to heat), daily activity, and extra activities (exercises not occuring through normal daily activity) all add to the above total giving you your Total Daily Energy Expendature (TDEE).
    Luckily for most people, they have a significant amount of calories stored in their body. Not only as fat, but also as protein and glycogen (and cholesterol to a smaller degree). Even fit and healthy folks with low body fat percent have a large amount of stored calories.
    So what happens when you eat below what you need?

    Part 3 long term underfeeding
    This can begin anywhere from 10 days to six weeks depending on how large the deficit is. The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage. Muscle mass is critically low or starting to become critically low. If the person is keeping track, they will now see that their stamina and power is both significantly lower. And they will have large periods of the day where they are tired and/or lethargic, and could even exhibit "colds" and acheness very easily.
    This point is where the brain is criticaly effected and organs can begin slowing down their efficiency. The long term health risks are now an issue. Some organs can shut down in parts, and sometimes these parts never start back up again. Compromised thought processes can dull perception and lead to balance and awareness issues. Sleeping becomes more difficult. It's a cycle that can end in chronic diseases and sometimes even death. I don't say this to scare folks, it's just the logical outcome (although would take quite a while unless in full blown starvation).


    As to the finer points of recognizing how many calories are "enough" for you. That's easy enough to estimate (with some impressision I admit, but it'll get you in the ballpark). Just find your approximate BMR (there's a ton of sites out there that do this, go to webMD and put metabolism calculator in, you'll find their tool for TDEE) and multiply by 25% and you'll get close to your TDEE.


    What do you mean by underfeeding? Are you saying that people who chronically eat below their TDEE experience adverse health effects? Or when you say underfeeding are you speaking of below BMR?

    Also, I really don't understand what you're saying in the last paragraph I quoted. If I go to webMD and use their metabolism calculator to find my TDEE, then why do I need to multiply by 25%?
  • painauxraisin
    painauxraisin Posts: 299 Member
    bump
  • KarinFit4Life
    KarinFit4Life Posts: 424 Member
    I vote for STICKY!

    Great post!!
    :flowerforyou:
  • Anastasia0511
    Anastasia0511 Posts: 372 Member
    Bump
  • xxnellie146xx
    xxnellie146xx Posts: 996 Member
    Bump to read later
  • minnielovesmickey
    minnielovesmickey Posts: 84 Member
    Fab read, thanks!!
  • kellygirl5538
    kellygirl5538 Posts: 597 Member
    bump
  • rgbink
    rgbink Posts: 22 Member
    Bump
  • emnpepper
    emnpepper Posts: 16 Member
    Bump
  • avalonwomon
    avalonwomon Posts: 4
    I had never heard the term "starvation myth" until I saw this post. But I was so put off by the third paragraph that I didn't want to read the rest - mainly because paragraph 3 was so combative and judgey.

    So I googled "starvation myth" and found out some really interesting information.

    I liked this post - http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html

    So many opinions on this but as we are often told, we must do what we think is right for ourselves.
  • ladyark
    ladyark Posts: 1,101 Member
    bump
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    Hey,

    Maybe you could help me here. Just signed up last week and ready to go. A few months ago I took up a challange to get fit. I got a gym membership for 12 months so that I would continue to go and I love it. I am fitter than ever have been. So now I am looking at food to help with my weight loss to help my change to a healther lifestyle.

    I have noticed after using this counter and such that I am falling short of the caleries I need to take in daily, i'm not hungry. I know i can add more vege and such in but would have to eat alot to still make them up.

    Can someone give me suggestions on getting this up?
    I am also Lactose and Frusctose intollerant if people could keep this in mind

    I don't want to fall into the trap i did a number of years ago where my body went in to starvation mode, I came out of it unwill and worse than when i started (didnt kow about it at the time)

    send me a PM and I'll see if I can make some suggestions.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    If humans went into true starvation mode after only skipping 1 meal or not eating for a day we would not have survived this long fact not fiction.

    Hmm, since starvation mode is a process not a condition, not sure what this is referring to. As I said in my post, the first 1 to 2 days, nothing really changes in the first 24 to 48 hours, so while the process of starvation mode begins after your deficit grows to large, hormonal changes don't really start until glycogen reserves get to low. Which takes about 24 hours in the case of fasting, and about 48 hours in the case of underfeeding (enough to deplete the glycogen reserves).

    Were you referring to something else?
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member


    What do you mean by underfeeding? Are you saying that people who chronically eat below their TDEE experience adverse health effects? Or when you say underfeeding are you speaking of below BMR?

    Also, I really don't understand what you're saying in the last paragraph I quoted. If I go to webMD and use their metabolism calculator to find my TDEE, then why do I need to multiply by 25%?

    to answer your first question. Underfeeding is any time you eat below TDEE yes, but as I stated, in order to begin and continue in the process of starvation mode, you must underfeed enough to not be able to maintain the deficit. think of it like this:

    if Calories consumed + energy from storage (fat, protein...etc) =TDEE
    then
    You can maintain the deficit and lose fat.

    BUT
    If Calories consumed + energy from storage is LESS than TDEE then eventually, your body will continue to use glycogen at a greater rate then it can be created, eventually the body will require a means to balance out, this means adusting the energy burning portions of the body (muscles organs, autonomic functions, heat, immune system...etc)
    This is a long slow process, but eventually it can become dangerous.

    AND
    The more fat you have, the larger the amount of energy the body can pull to make the equation above equal out.
    But the body can only use so much fat, because it can't pull fat from unexposed areas (think of a melting ice cube, you can't melt the middle until the top is melted). So there's a finite amount of energy that the body can pull from fat at any one point in time.

    as to your second question. I probably should have been clearer on that. WebMD is a TDEE calculator, so no need to multiply by your activity level. If you're using a BMR or RMR calculator then you would, but not if it already asks for your activity level.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    I had never heard the term "starvation myth" until I saw this post. But I was so put off by the third paragraph that I didn't want to read the rest - mainly because paragraph 3 was so combative and judgey.

    So I googled "starvation myth" and found out some really interesting information.

    I liked this post - http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html

    So many opinions on this but as we are often told, we must do what we think is right for ourselves.

    I know that post well, and I know her well, she was a member on here for a while. Much of that post is dead wrong. I'm sorry I put you off, but if you've been on here long enough and watched the forums, you'll see that there is much controversy about this concept, and much misinformation. I truly am sorry that you considered it combative and judgey, but I post the way I feel, then add my facts to back up my feelings. That's just how I do things.

    best wishes,

    -Banks
  • sandyinsc
    sandyinsc Posts: 70 Member
    Bump for later. Thank you for posting this! :flowerforyou:
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    I'll post some of my research papers later today per request, I'm about to leave for work, so I can't do it right this second, but I will when I have a few minutes.

    I did post a few here the other day, you can read them if you want.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/710506-net-calories?page=1#posts-10446027
  • mocha76
    mocha76 Posts: 184 Member
    bump
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    For the record, my two favorite books are:

    Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism / Edition 6 by Sareen S. Gropper, Jack L. Smith (although I read 5th edition, this is what's out now)

    and

    Advanced Human Nutrition / Edition 2 by Denis M Medeiros, Robert E.C. Wildman

    Both are excellent books, both are college level masters texts though, and both dive very deeply into Anatomy and Physiology and bio-chemistry so be forewarned if you buy them.

    If you read these and comprehend them, you'll understand the human metabolism and why all the topics I've discussed occur.

    for a more layman's read though, there's a great book called

    Strength Training / Edition 1 by NSCA -National Strength & Conditioning Association, Lee Brown

    while it's mostly about strength training, the introductory chapters cover a lot of muscle metabolism and some nutrition as well, I recommend it to all newbie trainers (or aspiring trainers) and anyone who's serious about health and wellness.

    and no, I don't have any connection to these books, this is straight up recommendations based on my likes and dislikes.
  • Wecandothis
    Wecandothis Posts: 1,083 Member
    I had never heard the term "starvation myth" until I saw this post. But I was so put off by the third paragraph that I didn't want to read the rest - mainly because paragraph 3 was so combative and judgey.


    Banks!!!!! I've thought about you a lot since I've been back and you were absent. I've frankly avoided the forums lately because they have become quite 'judgey' - but I've never known you to be. It's great to see that you are still out there - hope you and your wife are both doing well.

    avalonwomon: Honestly Banks is not combative or judgey. He is a great guy who has in the past taken a great deal of time to to help many people on here. I understand why you might think that about him. His writing is very authoritative and unless you know him a little you might make that knee jerk assessment of him. (I don't really know him personally - except I feel like I do because I used to read all of his -very long- posts word for word because they were such good advice) If you do get to understand him you will see that he HONESTLY wants to impart good information that he's studied for quite some time. He wants to help people, and not encourage some of the misinformation that is often given around here. Banks is one of the good guys.

    As far as the 'sticky' goes, he used to have GOBS of posts stickied. They were my bible when I started this years ago. Didn't even know they were gone.

    And THANK YOU BANKS! Your advice made a positive difference in my life. That thank you is long overdue. Don't think that I ever told you before.

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