You Are Not Different

Jester522

Bump because I agree with above post.

Mads1997

Bumping for later

WendyTerry420

The more I see from this Lyle McDonald guy, the more I know he is just spreading more bro-science.

Here's three reference that disprove his theory that it's impossible to gain muscle mass while eating at a deficit:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2662322

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/3533812/reload=0;jsessionid=MEU4b8RAmpXNvw1jazad.0

http://jap.physiology.org/content/79/3/818.short

There are more if you actually care to look instead of just believing what you read on some guys blog.

By the way, this phenomenon has NOTHING to do with thermodynamics (or actually everything). He, and you seem to be forgetting that obese people are walking around with thousands and thousands of excess calories readily available for use when needed. There is no physiological reason why these calories are any different than those we eat. As long as obese individuals have sufficient protein and amino acid intake (the requirements of which are easy to do while eating at a deficit), it's not only possible, but in fact likely for an obese person new to resistance training to ADD to lean body mass.

Frankly, I think THIS may well be one of the reasons behind some of the "plateaus" people always complain about here. Though I will add that since most of them never bother to check their LBM, it's kind of hard to tell.

I don't see where those studies disprove what was stated in the article. Maybe I missed something, but I see these studies more as complementary rather than contradictory. Yes, if you are obese and burning fat, then that means you are using stored energy rather than dietary energy, but it's "six of one, half dozen of another." In other words, same damn thing!

I have increased my own lean body mass in this manner. Anyone can do it under the right conditions, with the right diet and activity.

WendyTerry420

I am still trying to find what you are referring to because I am honestly confused where you are seeing this. You seem to like extracting quotes - doing so in this case would probably clear up a lot of the confusion that appears to be happening.

ETA: I in no way disagree with you on your comments about gaining LBM while on a deficit when someone is obese, and in fact have made the same point in this and other threads, so I am definately not trying to debate that point:

So it sounds like we may be closer together on this issue that you realize. I'm not saying EVERYTHING he wrote is incorrect, but I do have 2 serious issues with his article:
1. The aforementioned statement that you can't gain LBM eating at a deficit. (I'll get to this in a minute), and
2. The remainder of the article where he talks about how some people are different, yet then goes on to say no one is different.

I think the reason I find this so offensive is because there is quite a bit of information that comes out of the bodybuilding world (such as most of this author's stuff), that simply DOES NOT APPLY to those of us that are more than 30 lbs overweight. Tons of people on MFP post stuff that may be great advice for someone trying to go from 12% to 8% BF, but is terrible advice for an obese person. The reverse is also true. Physiologically, there are some serious hormonal differences between an obese body and one just carrying a few extra pounds. As a result, we just can't make these type of generalizations. An example would be statements like "it's all about thermodynamics, just eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight." It sounds good, but it discounts the fact that our bodies are not just simple machines that respond exactly the same every time. Even the author know that or he wouldn't have made his money hyping various modified eating plans, macro requirements, etc,, and wouldn't have talked at length in this article about how some people have to really struggle to lose fat.

As to the quote that started my rant (yes I recognize it as such),

You can’t gain bodymass unless your energy intake exceeds your energy output because you can’t make something out of nothing (muscle or fat).

That is quoted from the article and is the place where I got so turned off by this guys stuff. I could easily re-write this sentence without changing the meaning by simply eliminating the parenthetical statement and instead putting it where the antecedent "something" is at: "You can’t gain bodymass unless your energy intake exceeds your energy output because you can't make muscle or fat out of nothing." Further, just to clarify, if you remove the words "or fat" from the statement it becomes "You can’t gain bodymass unless your energy intake exceeds your energy output because you can't make muscle out of nothing."

This is still the same statement. I'm not sure why you can't see that, but I suppose it's because you're a fan of this author.

The ladies are right on this one. Your quote from the article says body mass. Body mass is not the same thing as lean body mass. If you are obese, doing strength training, and taking in adequate protein, you can decrease body mass while increasing lean body mass. That is not a contradiction.

WendyTerry420

People on forums are sheep. The snowflake saying cracks me up. Someone made it up and now everyone throws it out there. Sorry everyone is an individual unless you have an identical twin.

Cant wait for the next years buzzwords to come out so you sheep can use it in every sentence.

Signed,
Opinionated Snowflake

Hate to break it to you, but the whole 'special snowflake' idiom has been around for some years. Maybe you should watch Fight Club.

ETA: This is a great thread and I'm coming back to read this whenever my inner entitled American corner-cutter wants me to think differently about physics.

That is one movie that I never cared to see. I always wondered where the "special snowflake" thing came from.

wackyfunster

You know, if people took half the effort they spend trying to prove they are a special snowflake/magical unicorn and that their motabolism is the reason they are fat, NOT the fact that they overeat and underexercise, and used that effort to eat less and move more, they would already be fit. I guess whining about how unfair life is is easier?

indianstallion

I completely agree. I used to be one of those people who kept whining that I just couldn't lose weight despite the fact that I wasn't eating huge portions of food and wasn't snacking on junk food. But I was lying to myself. I might not have gorged myself silly, but my food choices were almost always high calorie foods (fried food was pretty much my staple diet) and I didn't exercise. It was no wonder that I kept putting on weight year after year. I was a 112 kg (247 lbs) (basically obese based on my BMI) in December before I went on an exercise regime and started watching what I ate. I am now 77 kg (170 lbs) and I never felt better. So yeah the first step is to admit to yourself that you need to change your lifestyle and stop blaming genes or your low metabolism , whether you are obese or overweight.

VelociMama

Good read!

mmapags

You know, if people took half the effort they spend trying to prove they are a special snowflake/magical unicorn and that their motabolism is the reason they are fat, NOT the fact that they overeat and underexercise, and used that effort to eat less and move more, they would already be fit. I guess whining about how unfair life is is easier?

Word!

tobnrn

You know, if people took half the effort they spend trying to prove they are a special snowflake/magical unicorn and that their motabolism is the reason they are fat, NOT the fact that they overeat and underexercise, and used that effort to eat less and move more, they would already be fit. I guess whining about how unfair life is is easier?

What. I'm not a special snowflake/magic unicorn. My mommy lied to me. :sad: :sad:

mmapags

You know, if people took half the effort they spend trying to prove they are a special snowflake/magical unicorn and that their motabolism is the reason they are fat, NOT the fact that they overeat and underexercise, and used that effort to eat less and move more, they would already be fit. I guess whining about how unfair life is is easier?

What. I'm not a special snowflake/magic unicorn. My mommy lied to me. :sad: :sad:

Well, Ok you can be. But no one else!!

soulfulsally

What I've learned from reading Lyle McDonald's piece: that I'm not a special snowflake . I just have a Diet Resistant body.

tobnrn

You know, if people took half the effort they spend trying to prove they are a special snowflake/magical unicorn and that their motabolism is the reason they are fat, NOT the fact that they overeat and underexercise, and used that effort to eat less and move more, they would already be fit. I guess whining about how unfair life is is easier?

What. I'm not a special snowflake/magic unicorn. My mommy lied to me. :sad: :sad:

Well, Ok you can be. But no one else!!

:happy: :flowerforyou:

AmberJo1984

Excellent read. I'll have to re-read this later... more closely than I can at work.

junodog1

I WANT to be a unicorn

Crochetluvr

Heathermetoo

Good!!

CoderGal

bumping this incase it makes the special snowflakes read it.

Ivy_leaves

HodderAL

Bump. Sadly, I thought I WAS different They lied...