build muscle on calorie deficit?
Replies
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I have been lifting for 6 months, in a deficit. Have I built new muscle? No. Has the muscle I already had (covered with fat and almost useless) begun to show and look better? Yes. That's the difference...I haven't gained any muscle mass technically, but I look more muscular and am stronger. Isn't that what I was going for in the first place?
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There are exceptions to the rule. If you are obese, if you are new to lifting, are a few cases where you can build muscle but for the majority of the rest, you need to be in a calorie surplus. Now eating enough protein and eating in a calorie deficit will help you maintain lean body mass while losing body fat which will expose the underlying muscle.... Best of Luck.... :-)There are 3 conditions that would allow ong">building ong">muscle on a deficit:
1) Steroids
2) Newbie Gains
3) Very overweightHowever, it can be done in the following scenarios:
1) You are new to weight training;
2) You are returning to weight training after a layoff; or
3) You have a high percentage of body fat.
Okay, HOW obese must you be? I've lost 65-67 pounds (depending on the day and the fickle mood of my scale LOL). I still need to lose another 40 to 60 pounds. It's been a struggle the past few months. The weight loss has slowed considerably. I have started some weight training, though really not lifting what y'all would probably call "heavy" right now. I want to make more progress and faster. I also want to build bone density. I have done a lot of hiking and while my stamina and speed have improved, I still get so winded on the big hils. *sigh*... Anyway... I want to kick it up a notch and get this weight loss moving. The word I read everywhere is that strength training is the way to do it. I have read both views more than once and have had two dieticians tell me exactly the opposite on whether or not you can build muscle while dieting/calorie deficit. I give up trying to solve that riddle.. but maybe it turns on the overweightness factor... so.... HOW overweight do you think you must be to have this as a possibility. Would my extra 50 pounds or so be enough? Advice please.0 -
No.0
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Dawn - somebody earlier in the thread linked to an article at bodyrecomposition.com, where Lyle discusses the mechanism of how it happens for overweight beginners. Read this article (it's part 1 of a 5-part series, which really merits reading in its entirety), in which Lyle specifically defines what he considers overweight/obese for purposes of training, and lays out a lot of other very useful diet/training information:Okay, HOW obese must you be? I've lost 65-67 pounds (depending on the day and the fickle mood of my scale LOL). I still need to lose another 40 to 60 pounds. It's been a struggle the past few months. The weight loss has slowed considerably. I have started some weight training, though really not lifting what y'all would probably call "heavy" right now. I want to make more progress and faster. I also want to build bone density. I have done a lot of hiking and while my stamina and speed have improved, I still get so winded on the big hils. *sigh*... Anyway... I want to kick it up a notch and get this weight loss moving. The word I read everywhere is that strength training is the way to do it. I have read both views more than once and have had two dieticians tell me exactly the opposite on whether or not you can build muscle while dieting/calorie deficit. I give up trying to solve that riddle.. but maybe it turns on the overweightness factor... so.... HOW overweight do you think you must be to have this as a possibility. Would my extra 50 pounds or so be enough? Advice please.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/training-the-obese-beginner.html0 -
You can build muscle in a deficit if you are completely new to resistance training. After a short while the "noob gains" will halt. Beyond that point, there is no other way to build muscle effectively but to eat in a caloric surplus, or to "bulk". Please do not listen to people that tell you that you can "burn fat and build muscle" simultaneously. Those two events are direct opposites and require opposite conditions, and the fact has been set in stone for quite some time now. Of course if you don't mind making miniscule fat losses and miniscule muscle gains over an unnecessarily long period of time, then yes, it is only JUST possible, but not worth the effort and results.0
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Dawn - somebody earlier in the thread linked to an article at bodyrecomposition.com, where Lyle discusses the mechanism of how it happens for overweight beginners. Read this article (it's part 1 of a 5-part series, which really merits reading in its entirety), in which Lyle specifically defines what he considers overweight/obese for purposes of training, and lays out a lot of other very useful diet/training information:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/training-the-obese-beginner.html
You know I love articles like this... Off to go read the details.. wonder how I missed the link earlier.0 -
only beginners or those on drugs can build muscle on caloric defecit... u can build strength on caloric defecit but not skeletal muscle.0
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I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.0
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You can absolutely build muscle on a calorie deficit, but not for a long time. If you're just getting into weight training, you'll get some decent results up to 6 months, give or take. It also depends on how restrictive your diet is. You should try not to exceed a deficit of 500 calories if you're getting into weight training. The most important factors for putting on some muscle are:
-consistent training (full body workouts divided into separate days for different muscle groups)
-progressive training (increase weight and effort week to week)
-increase water consumption (depends on your height/weight but at least 64 ounces, more if you need it, less on days off if you can't drink it all)
-plenty of rest/recovery (you can hit the gym 5-7 days a week if you have it in you, but don't hit the same muscles for at least 4 days before returning to them, make sure you get enough sleep too, good for hormones, good for growth and recovery)
You don't need gobs of protein or supplements. Under optimal conditions the human body can't really synthesize more than a pound of muscle per week depending on the persons size of course. And that will only happen in the beginning. Incorporate your entire body in your weight training. That doesn't mean all at once, but throughout the week. This will increase the release of hormones you need to build muscle, and it will also help to keep your from over/under developing muscle or muscle groups which can have a negative effect over long term.
This might all sound like a lot but just getting into the gym and lifting consistently is the thing to do. Find what works for you. Some weeks you won't feel like there's a difference, some weeks you just see a muscle that wasn't there last time. Just give it a good 3 months. It takes time for the body to change. And don't get discouraged, it is a little harder for females to put on the muscle. Less testosterone, which is powerful hormone for growth. And don't worry about getting to big, because its a lot of work and takes a good amount of time.
But anyways, after a while you'll need to get into a calorie surplus, but if you're trying to burn fat also, your body will use that as the extra energy it needs to grow muscle. When you're out of excessive fat reserves you might want to start eating extra calories, but only 250 extra a day to start. Don't play into the bulking hype. If you're just starting out, you have a long time before you need to worry about that. Nothing to it but to do it!
This is a great post to reflect on when you're questioning what to do and how to do it. Thanks for writing something that everyone is able to understand!0 -
I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?0 -
Hey guys! I've read that you need to be at a calorie surplus to gain muscle. If I am following MFP guidelines and eating at a deficit but eating at least 1 gram of protein for each lb of body weight can I still build muscle?
You may build some muscle even while in calorie deficit if any of the following are true:
- you are returning to lifting after a long hiatus
- you are beginner
- you are very overweight0 -
I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.0 -
Sigh. Not this again.
You can get newbie gains by being new to lifting or returning from a long break. You can gain some muscle (very minimal gains) from being obese and using fat stores as calories. Or you can take steroids.
Other than that you need to be in a surplus to build new tissue. Again this is beyond newbie gains.
You cannot build new tissue on a calorie deficit. Not fat. Not muscle. Not anything. It is BIOLOGICALLY impossible.0 -
I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?0 -
I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
Again, you gained a small amount of LBM from being a beginner as well as overweight. Your LBM will not increase much more than that until you start feeding your body a surplus of calories.0 -
I only had my BF% tested once and it was when I was close to my goal. I ate at a deficit for 13 months, how much of that 13 months would you consider to be in the beginner stage? Thx.I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?0 -
Does it matter?
Lift weights, and eat adequate protein to get the best body composition results when you reach your goal.0 -
I only had my BF% tested once and it was when I was close to my goal. I ate at a deficit for 13 months, how much of that 13 months would you consider to be in the beginner stage? Thx.I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?
Million dollar question I suppose as it would also vary depending on the weigh so there are two variables at play. Normally 'newb' gains are pretty much done well within 6 months, but the overweight part is also a factor - which was also presumably getting lower. Thanks for the input.0 -
Most have it right......................deficit means less calories than your body needs thereby weight gets lost. To gain muscle you have to add calories (with the exceptions mentioned above). You can't build muscle with a supply to build it with. Some will just say "eat a lot of protein", but protein will also be used as energy if the body senses less energy from carbs and fats.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Yes it is the million dollar question, : ) I have read soo many different opinions on how long you can expect to see newbie gains etc. I lost the majority of my weight by the 7th month and I gained more lean muscle from the 6th month thru the 13th month than I did during the first 6 months because of eating at less of a deficit during the later months.
I only had my BF% tested once and it was when I was close to my goal. I ate at a deficit for 13 months, how much of that 13 months would you consider to be in the beginner stage? Thx.I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?
Million dollar question I suppose as it would also vary depending on the weigh so there are two variables at play. Normally 'newb' gains are pretty much done well within 6 months, but the overweight part is also a factor - which was also presumably getting lower. Thanks for the input.0 -
I am with morebean... why does it matter?... In my opinion when most people ask this question what they are really asking is will weightlifing on a deficit make me:
1# get stronger
2# look better
3# feel better
The answer to all of these questions is YES!!
Getting into the specific body processes of muscle growth, (as opposed to adaptation), just muddies the water for most people...0 -
I am with morebean... why does it matter?... In my opinion when most people ask this question what they are really asking is will weightlifing on a deficit make me:
1# get stronger
2# look better
3# feel better
The answer to all of these questions is YES!!
Getting into the specific body processes of muscle growth, (as opposed to adaptation), just muddies the water for most people...
I think it matters because people go on about making gains on a deficit which can put some women off from weight training as they think misguidedly that they will build a lot of muscle mass. It also matters to correct misinformation.0 -
Yes it is the million dollar question, : ) I have read soo many different opinions on how long you can expect to see newbie gains etc. I lost the majority of my weight by the 7th month and I gained more lean muscle from the 6th month thru the 13th month than I did during the first 6 months because of eating at less of a deficit during the later months.
I only had my BF% tested once and it was when I was close to my goal. I ate at a deficit for 13 months, how much of that 13 months would you consider to be in the beginner stage? Thx.I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?
Million dollar question I suppose as it would also vary depending on the weigh so there are two variables at play. Normally 'newb' gains are pretty much done well within 6 months, but the overweight part is also a factor - which was also presumably getting lower. Thanks for the input.
The challenge is that you did not get your BF% tested at the beginning or during so it is really hard to make that assertion.0 -
training like you want to get bigger, while eating like you want to get smaller.
I really like this phrase......I think I may steal it...hope you don't mind!
[/quote]
Works for me too.0 -
No challenge at all :happy: When I started working out I took measurements every month ( And yes I do understand fluid retention) And I had gained inches in my arms, chest, shoulders, forearms, calves, traps when I reached my goal of 204 lbs compared to when I started at 287 lbs. Infact I didnt have visable ab's prior to gaining weight when I was skinny as a rail, never had traps and even at 287lbs you could push on my upper chest and feel bone, you could also feel bone were my bi's,tri's and delts met on the outside of my arms. At 287 lbs I could wrap hand around my forearms and could easily touch my index fingers to my thumbs but couldnt come close to doing that at 204lbs. At 204 lbs the same shirts that I wore at 287lbs did not fit or fit very tight in my arms, chest, shoulder, traps and neck even though they looked like I was wearing a tent in other area's.
Yes it is the million dollar question, : ) I have read soo many different opinions on how long you can expect to see newbie gains etc. I lost the majority of my weight by the 7th month and I gained more lean muscle from the 6th month thru the 13th month than I did during the first 6 months because of eating at less of a deficit during the later months.
I only had my BF% tested once and it was when I was close to my goal. I ate at a deficit for 13 months, how much of that 13 months would you consider to be in the beginner stage? Thx.I built plenty of muscle while eating at a deficit. But if you dont have alot of weight to lose you should do it by bulking and cutting.
Were you significantly overweight and/or a beginner?
Yes to both, but I continued to gain LM. while on a deficit long after I was no longer significantly over weight and a beginner.
Lifting heavy and eating at a slight deficit is the key.
I get the beginner/overweight - it's pretty well documented that is totally 'do-able' and actually a decent amount of gains can be made, depending on the routine, deficit, individual etc etc. However, the gains while on a deficit interests me. How did you test your BF% and do you know how much you gained over what period (after the overweight/beginner stage)?
Million dollar question I suppose as it would also vary depending on the weigh so there are two variables at play. Normally 'newb' gains are pretty much done well within 6 months, but the overweight part is also a factor - which was also presumably getting lower. Thanks for the input.
The challenge is that you did not get your BF% tested at the beginning or during so it is really hard to make that assertion.0 -
I am with morebean... why does it matter?... In my opinion when most people ask this question what they are really asking is will weightlifing on a deficit make me:
1# get stronger
2# look better
3# feel better
The answer to all of these questions is YES!!
Getting into the specific body processes of muscle growth, (as opposed to adaptation), just muddies the water for most people...
I think it matters because people go on about making gains on a deficit which can put some women off from weight training as they think misguidedly that they will build a lot of muscle mass. It also matters to correct misinformation.
When you say "make gains on a deficit" you are talking specifically about building more muscle fibres. The problem is that many people take that to mean "won't get stronger, won't get fitter, won't get more defined, won't see benefits..." The "gains" that get focussed on in these threads are a very narrow part of the picture, particularly for women who are unlikely to see real muscular size gains ever...
I do get where you are coming from though, but the battle is on two fronts. The two most common threads on womens weight lifing are either: Am I going to get huge? or I know I won't get huge, so is there any point?... unfortunately without taking the time to understand the details, people seem to conflate the two... IYKWIM
This is the reason I have a love/hate relationship with the "look at what weights did for my body" threads. On one hand I agree that any encouragement to lift is good. However I wish there was more focus on "look how much I can lift"... I just feel like focussing on performance over appearance is a healthier headspace. The thickness of your thighs is such a silly, subjective and potentially damaging thing to focus on... A max squat isn't, you can improve every cycle. That improvement might be from actual strength gains, but its likely a combination of technique, confidence, mobility etc....
/end rave0 -
I am with morebean... why does it matter?... In my opinion when most people ask this question what they are really asking is will weightlifing on a deficit make me:
1# get stronger
2# look better
3# feel better
The answer to all of these questions is YES!!
Getting into the specific body processes of muscle growth, (as opposed to adaptation), just muddies the water for most people...
I think it matters because people go on about making gains on a deficit which can put some women off from weight training as they think misguidedly that they will build a lot of muscle mass. It also matters to correct misinformation.
When you say "make gains on a deficit" you are talking specifically about building more muscle fibres. The problem is that many people take that to mean "won't get stronger, won't get fitter, won't get more defined, won't see benefits..." The "gains" that get focussed on in these threads are a very narrow part of the picture, particularly for women who are unlikely to see real muscular size gains ever...
I do get where you are coming from though, but the battle is on two fronts. The two most common threads on womens weight lifing are either: Am I going to get huge? or I know I won't get huge, so is there any point?... unfortunately without taking the time to understand the details, people seem to conflate the two... IYKWIM
This is the reason I have a love/hate relationship with the "look at what weights did for my body" threads. On one hand I agree that any encouragement to lift is good. However I wish there was more focus on "look how much I can lift"... I just feel like focussing on performance over appearance is a healthier headspace. The thickness of your thighs is such a silly, subjective and potentially damaging thing to focus on... A max squat isn't, you can improve every cycle. That improvement might be from actual strength gains, but its likely a combination of technique, confidence, mobility etc....
/end rave
I mean mass gains - so the concern in the first example of threads. I agree that the bigger picture is often missed. However, the question was asked and it is important to be correct in the response.
I am totally with you regarding the other benefits of lifting - but I was just trying to give my opinion of why it matters to get the facts right. I didn't say #1, #2 or #3 in your post were wrong - I totally agree with them.0 -
Im eating 1600 a day - my tdee being somewhere around 2200..
I believe my muscles appear larger because I'm losing the fat on top of them. I've lost inches all over, but not a damn pound.. and I'm okay with that. I look better.
I do cardio & strength training. I like how its working for me. Find what works for you. 0 -
I just started heavy lifting again for the past three months, about six weeks ago I had my body fat checked at 20%. Six weeks later I am at 17.5% body fat at the same weight of 209.5. I ate a 950 cal deficit not including my work out calories pretty consistent. My bench press work out weight went from ( my last set of 5x5) 250lbs to 270lbs. I lost an inch of my stomach. I lost size in my legs and arms but gained an inch around my chest. After running the numbers over all I lost about five lbs of fat and gained about five lbs of muscle in about six weeks. My over all appearance has also changed a lot with the eye test. My lean body mass went from 167lbs to about 172lbs. These are just my calculations with my own calipers using multiple sites and methods averaged out so there not scientific but I do believe I have made a lot of progress. I work out heavy 1.5 to 2 hours six days a week but just recently had to take off four days to catch up on rest. Hope this helps0
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A gain in strength does not mean you gained LM. Also no offense, but there is no way that you gained 5 lbs of LM in 6 weeks (even if you were eating at a surplus) Your muscle tissue is retaining fluids because you are lifting.I just started heavy lifting again for the past three months, about six weeks ago I had my body fat checked at 20%. Six weeks later I am at 17.5% body fat at the same weight of 209.5. I ate a 950 cal deficit not including my work out calories pretty consistent. My bench press work out weight went from ( my last set of 5x5) 250lbs to 270lbs. I lost an inch of my stomach. I lost size in my legs and arms but gained an inch around my chest. After running the numbers over all I lost about five lbs of fat and gained about five lbs of muscle in about six weeks. My over all appearance has also changed a lot with the eye test. My lean body mass went from 167lbs to about 172lbs. These are just my calculations with my own calipers using multiple sites and methods averaged out so there not scientific but I do believe I have made a lot of progress. I work out heavy 1.5 to 2 hours six days a week but just recently had to take off four days to catch up on rest. Hope this helps0
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