Am I in 'starvation mode'? Am I getting out of it?

dickymint678

Good luck, take it a step at a time.

geekyjock76

To answer your question about fat redeposition during weight recovery, check out this study which keyed in on that aspect.

Basically, the biggest predictor to how much fat you regain depends on what your starting body fat percentage was prior - the higher body fat, the more you're likely to regain. Another variable contributing to fat regain is the degree of decline in thermogenesis - resting metabolic rate.

Autoregulation of body composition during weight recovery in human: the Minnesota Experiment revisited.

Dulloo AG, Jacquet J, Girardier L.

Source
Department of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Geneva, Switzerland.

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To gain insights into the control systems underlying human variability in the regulation of body composition during weight recovery, as well as the disproportionate recovery of fat relative to lean tissue, the classical Minnesota Experiment conducted on 32 men subjected to long-term semi-starvation and refeeding was revisited with the following objectives: (1) to determine whether the control of energy-partitioning between lean and fat tissues during weight loss and weight recovery is an individual characteristic, and if a predictor can be statistically identified, (2) to determine whether the reduction in thermogenesis during weight loss persists during weight recovery, and underlies the disproportionate recovery of fat tissue and (3) to integrate the control of energy-partitioning and that of thermogenesis in order to explain the pattern of lean and fat tissue mobilisation and deposition during weight loss and weight recovery.
METHODS:
Individual data on body weight, body fat, fat-free-mass (FFM), and basal metabolic rate (BMR), assessed during the control baseline period (i.e. prior to weight loss), at the end of 24 weeks of semi-starvation, and at the end of a 12 week period of restricted refeeding, were used to calculate the following parameters: (i) a quantitative index of energy-partitioning, the P-ratio, defined as the proportion of body energy mobilised as protein during weight loss, or as the proportion of body energy deposited as protein during weight recovery, (ii) a quantitative index of changes in thermogenesis, defined as the change in BMR adjusted for FFM (or for both FFM and fat mass) and (iii) the degree of replenishment of fat and FFM compartments, defined as the recovery of body fat and FFM (during refeeding) as a percentage of that lost during semi-starvation.
RESULTS:
This re-analysis indicates the following: (i) a large inter-individual variability in P-ratio during both weight loss and weight recovery, but for a given individual, the P-ratio during refeeding is strongly correlated with the P-ratio during semi-starvation, (ii) body composition during the control period is the most important predictor of variability in P-ratio, such that the higher the initial % body fat, the lower the proportion of energy mobilised as protein, and hence the greater the propensity to mobilise fat during semi-starvation and to subsequently deposit fat during refeeding and (iii) at week 12 of refeeding, the change in adjusted BMR is found to be reduced by a magnitude which is inversely proportional to the degree of fat recovery, but is unrelated to the degree of FFM recovery. A quantitative relationship is derived between the P-ratio during refeeding, the % fat recovery, and the P-ratio during semi-starvation.
CONCLUSIONS:
Evidence is presented here suggesting that (i) human variability in the pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery is to a large extent determined by individual variations in the control of energy-partitioning, for which the initial % body fat is the most important predictor and (ii) the disproportionate gain in fat relative to lean tissue during weight recovery is contributed by a reduction in thermogenesis (i.e. increased efficiency of food utilization) for accelerating specifically the replenishment of the fat stores. These control systems, operating via energy-partitioning and thermogenesis, have been integrated into a compartmental model for the regulation of body composition during underfeeding/refeeding, and can be used to explain the individual pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery in situations ranging from the rehabilitation after malnutrition to the relapse of obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8696417

auxiliaa

To answer your question about fat redeposition during weight recovery, check out this study which keyed in on that aspect.

Basically, the biggest predictor to how much fat you regain depends on what your starting body fat percentage was prior - the higher body fat, the more you're likely to regain. Another variable contributing to fat regain is the degree of decline in thermogenesis - resting metabolic rate.

Autoregulation of body composition during weight recovery in human: the Minnesota Experiment revisited.

Dulloo AG, Jacquet J, Girardier L.

Source
Department of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Geneva, Switzerland.

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To gain insights into the control systems underlying human variability in the regulation of body composition during weight recovery, as well as the disproportionate recovery of fat relative to lean tissue, the classical Minnesota Experiment conducted on 32 men subjected to long-term semi-starvation and refeeding was revisited with the following objectives: (1) to determine whether the control of energy-partitioning between lean and fat tissues during weight loss and weight recovery is an individual characteristic, and if a predictor can be statistically identified, (2) to determine whether the reduction in thermogenesis during weight loss persists during weight recovery, and underlies the disproportionate recovery of fat tissue and (3) to integrate the control of energy-partitioning and that of thermogenesis in order to explain the pattern of lean and fat tissue mobilisation and deposition during weight loss and weight recovery.
METHODS:
Individual data on body weight, body fat, fat-free-mass (FFM), and basal metabolic rate (BMR), assessed during the control baseline period (i.e. prior to weight loss), at the end of 24 weeks of semi-starvation, and at the end of a 12 week period of restricted refeeding, were used to calculate the following parameters: (i) a quantitative index of energy-partitioning, the P-ratio, defined as the proportion of body energy mobilised as protein during weight loss, or as the proportion of body energy deposited as protein during weight recovery, (ii) a quantitative index of changes in thermogenesis, defined as the change in BMR adjusted for FFM (or for both FFM and fat mass) and (iii) the degree of replenishment of fat and FFM compartments, defined as the recovery of body fat and FFM (during refeeding) as a percentage of that lost during semi-starvation.
RESULTS:
This re-analysis indicates the following: (i) a large inter-individual variability in P-ratio during both weight loss and weight recovery, but for a given individual, the P-ratio during refeeding is strongly correlated with the P-ratio during semi-starvation, (ii) body composition during the control period is the most important predictor of variability in P-ratio, such that the higher the initial % body fat, the lower the proportion of energy mobilised as protein, and hence the greater the propensity to mobilise fat during semi-starvation and to subsequently deposit fat during refeeding and (iii) at week 12 of refeeding, the change in adjusted BMR is found to be reduced by a magnitude which is inversely proportional to the degree of fat recovery, but is unrelated to the degree of FFM recovery. A quantitative relationship is derived between the P-ratio during refeeding, the % fat recovery, and the P-ratio during semi-starvation.
CONCLUSIONS:
Evidence is presented here suggesting that (i) human variability in the pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery is to a large extent determined by individual variations in the control of energy-partitioning, for which the initial % body fat is the most important predictor and (ii) the disproportionate gain in fat relative to lean tissue during weight recovery is contributed by a reduction in thermogenesis (i.e. increased efficiency of food utilization) for accelerating specifically the replenishment of the fat stores. These control systems, operating via energy-partitioning and thermogenesis, have been integrated into a compartmental model for the regulation of body composition during underfeeding/refeeding, and can be used to explain the individual pattern of lean and fat tissue deposition during weight recovery in situations ranging from the rehabilitation after malnutrition to the relapse of obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8696417

Wow, thank you so much for that. It's reassuring because I was never "fat" to begin with but now noticing the weight sitting on my stomach causes worry because I've never carried weight there, I've always been bottom heavy. But it sounds like the body returns to an equilibrium and tries to reestablish it's former self ..

dsco86

I'm not a doctor, but I agree with the poster that suggested trying protein shakes/smoothies. I have one everyday myself. It is really helping me to gain lean muscle, which is something you really need. When you aren't getting the nutrition your body needs, your body seeks out your muscle first, hence maybe why you're feeling so weak. Start off small and gradually start consuming more protein and then try strength training to build up more muscle. I'm not sure why the bloating is happening, but maybe its got something to do with retaining water? Start drinking tons of water and make sure you're getting enough potassium to help balance out sodium intake. I'm sure once you start exercising, eating in a healthy manner, and building up your strength, your stomach will not look bloaty.

auxiliaa

I'm not a doctor, but I agree with the poster that suggested trying protein shakes/smoothies. I have one everyday myself. It is really helping me to gain lean muscle, which is something you really need. When you aren't getting the nutrition your body needs, your body seeks out your muscle first, hence maybe why you're feeling so weak. Start off small and gradually start consuming more protein and then try strength training to build up more muscle. I'm not sure why the bloating is happening, but maybe its got something to do with retaining water? Start drinking tons of water and make sure you're getting enough potassium to help balance out sodium intake. I'm sure once you start exercising, eating in a healthy manner, and building up your strength, your stomach will not look bloaty.

I'm not sure why but the thought of protein shakes is disgusting to me, even though I definitely see their benefits. I don't think I'm physically strong enough to do strength training yet, but I'll begin to incorporate planks/some sort of stomach strengthening exercises to see if it minimizes the bloat (which I think is purely due to my stomach not being used to food which is why it's discouraging)

geekyjock76

At some point, even body weight exercises will benefit you. You'll eventually have to increase your lean body mass since you likely have reduced it to some degree. The amount of lean body mass you have determines your Resting Metabolic Rate. Thus increasing lean body mass, along with gradually increasing caloric intake, will help restore your Resting Metabolic Rate to a more optimal state.

auxiliaa

I think it would be beneficial for me too, even if I start doing a few a day for now.

I also need to stop looking at the scales. Despite feeling like I'm holding all this weight, it's gone back down to 93

auxiliaa

I just want to ask - do people agree that you need to eat an extra 3500 to gain a pound a week?

Josh2040

If you are coming from a very low calorie diet and you increase your calories with "carbs" you will gain some water weight but this will be limited and also fluctuate from day to day.

If may well be worth speaking to your doctor about the concerns you may have in regard to you diet.

Without knowing you, my tuppence worth is that you are getting to few calories. You may want to consider upping your intake - fat may be a good way of getting the extra calories as you will not have to add much in the way of volume of food. Rest assured that AS LONG AS YOU ARE IN CALORIE DEFICIT any fat you consume will be burnt off for energy.

Good luck.

So consuming less than the 1500 my BMR + activity adds up to will not increase my weight at all?

Be careful with that thought process. If you are consuming less that your BMR and are doing activities it is possible for someone in your situation to gain weight, BUT it will most likely be in the form of muscle mass as your body is going to try to build that back(which is a good thing).

auxiliaa

When I said 'activities' I meant accounting for my sedentary lifestyle (BMR x 1.2) - my BMR is now 1200 and with lifestyle 1500 - what should I be working towards?

Josh2040

I think it would be beneficial for me too, even if I start doing a few a day for now.

I also need to stop looking at the scales. Despite feeling like I'm holding all this weight, it's gone back down to 93

Please throw your stupid scales away they are holding you back from being healthy and happy.

auxiliaa

I think it would be beneficial for me too, even if I start doing a few a day for now.

I also need to stop looking at the scales. Despite feeling like I'm holding all this weight, it's gone back down to 93

Please throw your stupid scales away they are holding you back from being healthy and happy.

I know but it's so hard not to be curious when I've got this massive bloat

the_sal

You might find the article I've linked below helpful, it's all about the symptoms you'll experience when you start to try to increase your intake after a long period of not eating very much.

You'll have a lot of bloat, a hard stomach that might make you feel like you're practically pregnant (this is your poor intestines trying to get used to having more food in there, and moving things along at a faster rate - before now they would have slowed right down to try to get the most out of your severely restricted intake. It may not even be your IBS - even in people without IBS they experience bloating, discomfort, constipation and gas when increasing after a starvation diet. You just have to ride it out!). You also may put on some weight around the midsection at first, and that's going to be distressing, but you have to keep going - it just happens because your body is frantically trying to protect and replenish your internal organs. The weight will redistribute with time, so be kind to yourself and keep eating!

The article is describing recovery from anorexia, but don't let that put you off - to be blunt, that basically is pretty much what you're doing in going from sub-500 cal per day to more (and even though your restriction was initially caused by IBS, it sounds like you're developing symptoms common to anorexics - the coldness and the low body fat, the fear of gaining weight etc - all of this is caused by being on a starvation diet and it's very serious). Hope this helps you understand what's happening - I agree, you might just have to try to weigh yourself less often for the moment - can you try for every second day, maybe? Then ease back from there. Your body is going to change with the increased intake, and although most of it is temporary, you don't want to panic yourself into starting to eat less again. This is a genuinely serious medical issue, you can't survive like this!

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/recovering-anorexia-what-expect

You really have to go and speak to a doctor, nutritionist, or a better yet a psychologist/counsellor specialising in eating disorders - they'll help you to know what to expect, and help you get through the tough process of getting off a starvation diet.

TheDreadPirateRoberts

I think it would be beneficial for me too, even if I start doing a few a day for now.

I also need to stop looking at the scales. Despite feeling like I'm holding all this weight, it's gone back down to 93

Please throw your stupid scales away they are holding you back from being healthy and happy.

I know but it's so hard not to be curious when I've got this massive bloat

Why are you still asking people here?? You are seriously and dangerously underweight due to a medical problem. You should not be asking a bunch of untrained people who know nothing about you to any useful degree. You should see your doctor and you should stop asking people on an internet forum. That is dangerous.

Serenstar75

You are already significantly underweight for your height (check the charts here: http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm), so you need to be putting on weight and not eating way, way too little as you currently are.

If you have physical problems increasing your calories injested to the level you need, then you should see your doctor as it sounds like you "may" have an eating disorder.

I don't think it's an eating disorder so much as a body that isn't handling food well at all. I deal with IBS and can understand. My best friend has Crohn's so I have seen major issues come about from certain foods. You clearly want to eat more. Increasing in small amounts is good. Also, find out if there is a protein or meal replacement powder that your doctor would suggest or approve of. Often this is an easier way to get in some calories without as much bloating.

I'm on a medicine now too that makes me have little to no appetite at all whatsoever. I have to be careful what I eat due to bloating and feeling miserable as well as stomach cramps. It's horrible. Don't worry about weight gain so much as how you feel. You need to have energy and feel healthier. That's going to require more calories in, but there are ways to get that without bulkier foods. Also see if your doctor can get you with a nutritionist who is aware of your medical situation and can help formulate an eating plan to help you gain back weight and feel better in a healthier way. I'm not a doctor, of course, just a woman with many health issues. Get a good doctor you trust if you don't have that now and make sure it's one that supports you becoming healthy

TheDreadPirateRoberts

You are already significantly underweight for your height (check the charts here: http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm), so you need to be putting on weight and not eating way, way too little as you currently are.

If you have physical problems increasing your calories injested to the level you need, then you should see your doctor as it sounds like you "may" have an eating disorder.

I don't think it's an eating disorder so much as a body that isn't handling food well at all. I deal with IBS and can understand. My best friend has Crohn's

However, you are not a doctor and even if you were a doctor you are not this person's doctor.

With the best will in the world, she cannot be properly helped here. She is being given some dangerous advice by some people who really have no clue what they are on about. Just because they knew someone who was similar or read about someone similar or were someone similar, it does not make them qualified to help her. I am concerned that the OP is still asking advice on here when the answers are not here. People mean well no doubt, but they are not the right people to be asking. Their doctor is and as you say below, they should see them.

Cookiedough9

Talk to me if you want, I had problems with eating too then once I started to eat normally my stomach goes into insane bloat mode.
It's still the same now, but reducing carbs has helped and drinking more water.

I think i too have IBS or some fast digestion. It's hell.

auxiliaa

You are already significantly underweight for your height (check the charts here: http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm), so you need to be putting on weight and not eating way, way too little as you currently are.

If you have physical problems increasing your calories injested to the level you need, then you should see your doctor as it sounds like you "may" have an eating disorder.

I don't think it's an eating disorder so much as a body that isn't handling food well at all. I deal with IBS and can understand. My best friend has Crohn's

However, you are not a doctor and even if you were a doctor you are not this person's doctor.

With the best will in the world, she cannot be properly helped here. She is being given some dangerous advice by some people who really have no clue what they are on about. Just because they knew someone who was similar or read about someone similar or were someone similar, it does not make them qualified to help her. I am concerned that the OP is still asking advice on here when the answers are not here. People mean well no doubt, but they are not the right people to be asking. Their doctor is and as you say below, they should see them.

I know. I need to see a dietitian/nutritionist asap.

auxiliaa

You might find the article I've linked below helpful, it's all about the symptoms you'll experience when you start to try to increase your intake after a long period of not eating very much.

You'll have a lot of bloat, a hard stomach that might make you feel like you're practically pregnant (this is your poor intestines trying to get used to having more food in there, and moving things along at a faster rate - before now they would have slowed right down to try to get the most out of your severely restricted intake. It may not even be your IBS - even in people without IBS they experience bloating, discomfort, constipation and gas when increasing after a starvation diet. You just have to ride it out!). You also may put on some weight around the midsection at first, and that's going to be distressing, but you have to keep going - it just happens because your body is frantically trying to protect and replenish your internal organs. The weight will redistribute with time, so be kind to yourself and keep eating!

The article is describing recovery from anorexia, but don't let that put you off - to be blunt, that basically is pretty much what you're doing in going from sub-500 cal per day to more (and even though your restriction was initially caused by IBS, it sounds like you're developing symptoms common to anorexics - the coldness and the low body fat, the fear of gaining weight etc - all of this is caused by being on a starvation diet and it's very serious). Hope this helps you understand what's happening - I agree, you might just have to try to weigh yourself less often for the moment - can you try for every second day, maybe? Then ease back from there. Your body is going to change with the increased intake, and although most of it is temporary, you don't want to panic yourself into starting to eat less again. This is a genuinely serious medical issue, you can't survive like this!

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/recovering-anorexia-what-expect

You really have to go and speak to a doctor, nutritionist, or a better yet a psychologist/counsellor specialising in eating disorders - they'll help you to know what to expect, and help you get through the tough process of getting off a starvation diet.

That was extremely helpful, thanks.

Serenstar75

You are already significantly underweight for your height (check the charts here: http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm), so you need to be putting on weight and not eating way, way too little as you currently are.

If you have physical problems increasing your calories injested to the level you need, then you should see your doctor as it sounds like you "may" have an eating disorder.

I don't think it's an eating disorder so much as a body that isn't handling food well at all. I deal with IBS and can understand. My best friend has Crohn's

However, you are not a doctor and even if you were a doctor you are not this person's doctor.

With the best will in the world, she cannot be properly helped here. She is being given some dangerous advice by some people who really have no clue what they are on about. Just because they knew someone who was similar or read about someone similar or were someone similar, it does not make them qualified to help her. I am concerned that the OP is still asking advice on here when the answers are not here. People mean well no doubt, but they are not the right people to be asking. Their doctor is and as you say below, they should see them.

Exactly, as I said ..See your doctor. I said it many times. So no real need to point out I'm not a doctor when my main advice is...Go see your doctor. People ask advice online a LOT. They do it for all kinds of medical and personal conditions. The only thing we online can actually do is say...Go see your doctor and if you don't feel your doctor is helping, get a new doctor. Think overall I had fairly good advice...since it was SEE YOUR DOCTOR, up to and including ways to get nutrition into the body less painfully...with doctor recommendations on what to do. Oi.