The Ketosis Diet - Any opinions?

vytamindi

I tried this diet before. I would not recommend it for long term weight loss. Definitely consult your doctor but exercising and eating good will help. I classify that diet as a yo yo diet.

Well then, my Yo Yo is broken since it only Yo's one way! :laugh:

Betty_Canada

Some points from the sharp end; I can only speak to my own experience and understanding of dietary ketosis:

0) A ketogenic diet (which is generally anywhere between 20-60 grams of carbohydrate a day) is designed *specifically* to trigger dietary ketosis. It is NOT a long term eating plan, it is a starting point, generally no more than two to three weeks in duration, from which you gradually add back in more vegetables, fruit and other low glycemic carbohydrate items until you reach the point where you stop showing on the Ketostix, and then you *continue to add* until you stop losing weight. Given that most people will stop showing anything at about 80 grams, but will continue to lose weight at anywhere from 100-150 grams, the pre-maintenance phase does not include ketosis at all, as you are trying to establish where you stop losing weight. At no point is it a NO carbohydrate way of eating, a common misconception. But there's a world of difference if you're insulin resistant between the twenty grams of carbs in one hamburger bun and eating approximately thirteen cups of salad a day. (Two cups of Earthbound Farms Organic Spring mix is three grams of carbs and one gram of fiber. 20/3 = 6.67 x 2 = 13.33).

0.5) NOTE: The Ketogenic diet prescribed for epilepsy patients is much lower carb than this, and usually only applied to treatment resistant children as it is less effective in adults, and not to be confused with the system described in point zero. For more information on the medical application of the ketogenic diet, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

1) I've been put on Metformin because I'm IR. This pretty much means I have to eat low GI/low carb if I ever want to leave my bathroom again. It's not difficult, but it does take a little more attention. Simple starches and sugars react poorly with this medication.

2) Dietary keto-lipolysis =/= diabetic ketoacidosis. If you are at a healthy weight, your body will produce ketone bodies every night as you switch between the insulin / glucagon cycle to burn a little fat to keep your brain from starving to death while you sleep. This is *normal* and *desirable*. This natural endocrine driven ketosis is a factor in "morning breath". Ketostix are designed to pick up ketone bodies at a level where, if it were uncontrolled diabetic ketosis, there might be cause for concern. But that bottom end is still pretty high when measured against the daily balancing act of a healthy insulin response.

3) Yes, I can and will give up bread, pasta, pizza, quesadillas etc. for the rest of my life if it's what I need to be healthy. If I was diagnosed with Celiac's disease and it meant the difference between life and death, nobody would question the fact that it needed to be a lifelong adjustment. Because I choose to do it voluntarily, this becomes a "problem".

4) Moderate to low carbohydrate dietary restriction is *not for everyone*. It is a specific treatment, to treat a specific condition. That condition is insulin resistance. Not every person who is overweight is overweight due to metabolic syndrome. But if you ARE overweight due to metabolic syndrome, restricting simple starches and sugars can do wonders to control insulin levels. Cutting calories and exercising with no thought to macronutrient distribution may not be as effective for someone with insulin resistance, as your body will hang onto that fat with every last erg you've got because it thinks you're starving it to death - high insulin levels cause low blood sugar. My insulin levels will not normalize on a 55-65% (AHA recommendation, last time I checked at least) carbohydrate diet, no matter how low the calories are. If there is excess insulin in the bloodstream, it turns off the HSL receptors on the fat cells so they don't break down triglycerides for release and conversion into glucose. In this *specific* scenario, treating the insulin behavior is the critical part, and that can only be done successfully long term through dietary changes. (Medication will control it for a while, but tolerance builds up and you end up back at square one.)

5) I do better on a non-ketogenic modified carbohydrate diet of approximately 75-125 grams of carbohydrate (net - after fiber is removed from the equation) per day. Different people will have success at different levels and with different dietary changes. This level is generally NOT enough to induce dietary ketosis, it provides me with a huge amount of dietary flexibility in choosing whole foods, fruits, vegetables, nuts and cheeses that will be healthier for me, and I am still losing weight at between 1-2 pounds a week.

6) I am IR and have PCOS. My partner is Type II diabetic. We are not viewing this as a temporary fix. It is the way our bodies need to be fed for us to be at our healthiest. We're not shoving our food choices down anyone else's throats, and we'll even buy buns or bread for guests if they come for dinner.

7) Could I lose those pounds if I just restricted myself to 1200 calories a day like the diet sites suggest? Given that my Katch McArdle BMR is 1250 calories a day, perhaps, but I would lose lean muscle tissue and it would be unlikely to work more than a month or two before my BMR adjusted. I am eating 1400-1600 calories a day right now, My protein levels are probably a little high, but I'm still working on the dietary fat thing.

For me, it has generally been a painless experience. I eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. I waste less money eating out. I have more energy, I sleep better, I am not constantly looking for a source of food, and I'm not passed out under the table after supper. Yes, food costs a little more. But as I'm generally eating less of it because I'm not starving all the time, it comes out in the wash.

Others' mileage may vary. I think it is important to remember that we can each only speak to the validity of **our own experience**, and we must remember that each body, and each body's *needs*, are different.

If you want to learn more about carbohydrate metabolism in a more or less layman's sense of the word, I recommend the book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, which explains the increasing body of literature on how carbohydrates and fat are metabolized differently by the body, and how dietary changes and the agricultural revolution have affected cultures transitioning from a "hunter-gatherer" society. It does make a few dietary suggestions near the end, but understanding the science behind the endocrinological effects of insulin and glucagon on the storage and release of fat is helpful if you are trying to decide if a ketogenic diet might be helpful for you.

=Betty=

smokinjackd

Why do so many seek the magic trick when plain ol' boring healthy well rounded eating does the trick.

Silverkittycat

OP, please just try this diet and see if it works for you. Those replying might have found out what works best for them for varying reasons. They are not you, one way of eating does not work for all. Good luck to you.

leftoverbun

There is more than 1 way to lose weight. For me and others, LCHF is extremely easy and effective. I've been on it for 10+ months and lost almost 100 lbs. In the past on low calorie and/or low fat diets, I've never been able to last for more than 4 months and 40lbs (which came back when I stopped, duh).

In addition to rapid weight loss (for some), I've also experienced a multitude of other positive reactions to the diet, ranging from no headaches, reduced acne, all the way to something minor like no ear wax. Those alone tell me this is the way I should have been eating my entire life, and you can be sure I'll be eating this way from here on out.

MrDangerSass

Just....no. Anything that "throws" your body into something that is essentially an emergency response like ketosis...is not healthy or good fitness. It may bring (and I stress may) bring short term results but will not result in a long term benefit. Carbs are not evil...diets that exclude the are.

foodie178

i generally avoid diets that focus on cutting out a certain food group, because i've seen and heard that although your body will lose the weight on the diet, it will be gained back and then some after the food is reintroduced. ketosis may occur while you aren't eating carbs, but as soon as you start eating carbs again i'd be wary of regaining all that weight!

if you want to lose weight, something that really helped me was remembering that the body was made to eat ALL of the food groups, but that food is supposed to be ENERGY. you don't need to diet, because no matter what you eat it will be used towards fueling your body. any excess is what turns into fat. of course, sugar isn't the ideal energy source, so be wise in your eating. good luck!

fitsin10

very interesting so I am bumping..thanks to all

fitsin10

but how do you know when your in ketosis doing a low carb diet?

TheVimFuego

Just....no. Anything that "throws" your body into something that is essentially an emergency response like ketosis...is not healthy or good fitness. It may bring (and I stress may) bring short term results but will not result in a long term benefit. Carbs are not evil...diets that exclude the are.

If you don't want to be in ketosis then don't fall asleep.

We are all in, to some degree, ketosis overnight.

We don't 'throw' our bodies into ketosis, we just give them the idea that being fuelled by carbohydrate isn't what we need right now, given we have some fat on our person to burn.

Ketosis is not an emergency response, it's a perfectly natural state of energy production.

If it wasn't then we would not be here to debate it ad infinitum.

All carbs are not the devil, correct, but we have not evolved to rely on them for energy.

TheDreadPirateRoberts

but how do you know when your in ketosis doing a low carb diet?

You can get some strips that you use to check your urine. They are avilable in the US / Canada in pharmacies and should be in the diabetic section. Aside from that it tends to be that you have a sweet, fruity breath as your body disposes of ketones.

Read this (http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets) and you get an idea of the potential risks and potential benefits of a low carb diet

Oh and if you cant be *ssed to copy and paste the link, then risks include (all below is copied and pasted from the above):

What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?
High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.

High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. This is especially true if the protein is not balanced with enough good vegetables, especially green cruciferous vegetables, such as broccoli.

Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce the risk of developing cancer.

Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause the body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

Is a Low-Carb Diet Right for Me?

These theories of weight loss remain unproven, and most experts are concerned that high-protein, low-carb diets can cause a host of problems, particularly for the large segment of the population that is at risk for heart disease. What's more, the plans that don’t allow intake of fruits and vegetables are the most problematic. Again, a balanced diet of protein, carbs, and good fats is ideal. The experts say to achieve permanent weight loss you must change your lifestyle. This means following a balanced diet combined with participating in regular physical activity.

Before starting this or any diet, be sure to talk with your doctor to determine what approach is right for you.

TheVimFuego

but how do you know when your in ketosis doing a low carb diet?

You can get some strips that you use to check your urine. They are avilable in the US / Canada in pharmacies and should be in the diabetic section. Aside from that it tends to be that you have a sweet, fruity breath as your body disposes of ketones.

Read this (http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets) and you get an idea of the potential risks and potential benefits of a low carb diet

Oh and if you cant be *ssed to copy and paste the link, then risks include (all below is copied and pasted from the above):

What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?
High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.

High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. This is especially true if the protein is not balanced with enough good vegetables, especially green cruciferous vegetables, such as broccoli.

Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce the risk of developing cancer.

Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause the body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

Is a Low-Carb Diet Right for Me?

These theories of weight loss remain unproven, and most experts are concerned that high-protein, low-carb diets can cause a host of problems, particularly for the large segment of the population that is at risk for heart disease. What's more, the plans that don’t allow intake of fruits and vegetables are the most problematic. Again, a balanced diet of protein, carbs, and good fats is ideal. The experts say to achieve permanent weight loss you must change your lifestyle. This means following a balanced diet combined with participating in regular physical activity.

Before starting this or any diet, be sure to talk with your doctor to determine what approach is right for you.

So much rehashed rubbish .. a well formulated ketogenic diet is not 'high protein' it is high fat.

And dietary fat is nothing to be scared of.

And don't get me started on the 'evil cholesterol' stupidity.

One day we'll get past this and move on.

SoDamnHungry

Seems highly unnatural to me.

TheVimFuego

Seems highly unnatural to me.

Unless you take a longer view ...

TheDreadPirateRoberts

Seems highly unnatural to me.

Unless you take a longer view ...

You're obviously a fan of this kind of diet. I had never heard of it until my friend went on it. As I posted previously he ended up in intensive care with heart and organ failure. He nearly died. It was not "rehashed rubbish" that got him into A&E, it was the diet. The acidicity of his blood damaged his organs.

This link is from the NHS, which tends to know what its talking about: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ketosis/pages/introduction-old.aspx and it says that this "potentially serious condition", can affect your urine and may eventually cause serious damage to your liver and kidneys. I know it uses the words "can", "potentially" and "may", but it also uses the words "serious damage to your liver and kidneys".

AbbsyBabbsy

OP, please just try this diet and see if it works for you. Those replying might have found out what works best for them for varying reasons. They are not you, one way of eating does not work for all. Good luck to you.

This. A high-fat, ketosis diet makes me miserable. I get bad breath, bo, female problems, one infection after another. These are conditions I'm never inflicted with otherwise. However, others find these diets amazing and are very successful on them.

AbbsyBabbsy

And dietary fat is nothing to be scared of.

Some people, like me, can't handle a high-fat diet. More than 40% fat and I start having serious consequences.

The push back from the low fat era is proving to be as annoying as the low fat era itself. High fat is not for everyone. Some of us should in fact fear eating too much of it.

fishgutzy

OP, please just try this diet and see if it works for you. Those replying might have found out what works best for them for varying reasons. They are not you, one way of eating does not work for all. Good luck to you.

This. A high-fat, ketosis diet makes me miserable. I get bad breath, bo, female problems, one infection after another. These are conditions I'm never inflicted with otherwise. However, others find these diets amazing and are very successful on them.

Bad breath is an indicator that your protein intake is too high. Decrease protein, increase fat intake.
I have to keep fat high and carbs low. Otherwise my cholesterol, triglycerides and blood glucose all go up. It only took 8 momths of this way of eating to lower my cholesterol 30% and return my A1C and blood glucose back to normal level. I was pre-diabetic.

Low carb high protein is toxic. Of that there is no doubt. But low carb high fat is actually what endocrinologists recommend for diabetics.
There is a lot of actual science to back this up.

tamicaron

I went in a weight loss clinic a year ago and they gave me the ketosis diet plan, but it is just a jump start and a big end when it is hard to lose the last few lb.
It consist in a 500 cal a day of protein only that means no milk, chesse an etc just meat, egg and whey protein shake. If you cheat and have even a bite of something else the "deal is off" and it won't work. You can do it from 3 to 14 days but no longer than that and no exercice at all just your normal daily activities. With this you are going to have a 10~12lb jump start.
The thing is if you get back to your normal diet right after you finish you ate going to gain more than you lose, so now you ask me how did you keep it off?
You add only vegetables for the next 15~30 days and it doesn't include tomatoes or potatoes or beets but only GREEN vegetables and no more then 1000 calories a day 700 protein and 300 vegetables. After you complete this stage you go to another one. You can add fruits to your diet 1 cup a day that you can divide into 2 or more servins. Your caloric intake should be around 1200. Light exercise is in courage in this 2 stages as walk or dance. Anything with moderation because it is a low caloric intake so you won't feel hungry and crave.

When your complete this you can add the healthy carbs like rice, potatoes, you may also eat cheese and drink milk with moderation and your exercice can be vigorous.

Since I was in a clinic program and seen a doctor between every stage I can guarantee it worked, but it is like I said it is hard and if you give a step out it won't work.

Coffee us allowed since it is one cup a day and no cream, tea should also be 1 or 2 cups a day.
I hope that helped.

janbez

I'm on a medically supervised protien sparing modified fast which is essentially the "keto" diet. I've been on it for a month, have stayed in mild ketosos, have lots of energy, am working out and sleeping well. I lost 15 pounds in 30 days. I would like to be "friends" with others who have had success with this plan.

JaceyMarieS

I have been in ketosis for 10 months now, lost almost 100 pounds, and have had a host of non-weight related improvements. For me, it's been a godsend.

I do gentle exercise 4-5 days a week, and have had no issues. I have more energy than ever.

Yep, this. I go in and out of ketosis. My blood sugar has stabilized at normal levels, my eczema is gone, arthritis flares only rarely now, I work out daily, IBS flares only rarely, lipid panel shows marked improvement, I no longer have heartburn and on and on and on.

LauraDotts

I'm on a medically supervised protien sparing modified fast which is essentially the "keto" diet. I've been on it for a month, have stayed in mild ketosos, have lots of energy, am working out and sleeping well. I lost 15 pounds in 30 days. I would like to be "friends" with others who have had success with this plan.

That is the diet that my doctor has me on. I have adjusted it up a little to better fit me but not by much. I was on it previously and it worked great but sticking to it for the long haul was just too restrictive. This time I've been on it for 5 months. Adjusting it to allow more foods than is specifically listed by the diet has helped me tremendously. Adjusting my goals here on MFP and logging my food helps me identify what I can eat and still be on target.

vytamindi

Bad breath is an indicator that your protein intake is too high. Decrease protein, increase fat intake.
I have to keep fat high and carbs low. Otherwise my cholesterol, triglycerides and blood glucose all go up. It only took 8 momths of this way of eating to lower my cholesterol 30% and return my A1C and blood glucose back to normal level. I was pre-diabetic.

Low carb high protein is toxic. Of that there is no doubt. But low carb high fat is actually what endocrinologists recommend for diabetics.
There is a lot of actual science to back this up.

I have horrible keto breath and my protein rarely exceeds 35% of my total calories. I thought it was just excess ketones leaving the body through your breath? Anyway, I'll drink more water just to be sure!

Caseyann2501

Low carb high fat: good.
Low carb high protein: bad. This one is toxic. A tell tale sign that your eating too much protein is *kitten* breath.

Low carb works for burning fat in people who have the same problem I have. Carb don't convert to energy, they get stored as fat. Carbs make me sluggish and sleepy. I dubbed it carb induced narcolepsy. :bigsmile:
The best part of low carb high fat is that is not a "diet." It is a change in eating lifestyle.
If I did a so-called "balanced diet" I would immediately stop losing weight and then gaining it back.
I was pre-diabetic and had high cholesterol. After the first 8 months of LCHF I had my annual checkup and full blood workup.
No longer pre-diabetic and cholesterol and triglycerides dropped 30%.
If my carbs are too low at the end of the day I sometime add Exotic chips (Caribbean root chips). Gets the fat count up too.
Nuts are a decent source of bound carbs too.

Re the fast first pounds, almost any "diet" will shed the first pounds quickly. I've lost the first 30 a few times over the last decade. :laugh:
LCHF is the first time I have changed how I eat and understanding why I must sustain this change even after I get to my goal weight. I can't go back to snacking on Doritos or other processed carbs.


For what it is worth, science has found that your brain functions more efficiently on ketones than on carbs.

What is the correct fat to protein ratio to avoid *kitten* breath? I would still use MFP to watch my calories and carbs, so what percentage should i input for the fat and protein? Definitely would like to avoid the bad breath!

witchy_wife

I eat lower carb. I don’t think I go low enough to produce the level of ketones that can be measured on a ketostick but I find lower carb a great way to help me lose weight. I find that once I eat bread / pasta / potatoes I crave more. I don’t find them satisfying and find I have to eat a lot to fill up. I now eat around 70 – 80g of carbs a day and get these from fruit and veggies. This isn’t difficult as fruits have quite high carbs, but my aim isn’t really to just eat low carb, it’s to eat healthy and cut out the foods that cause me to binge and over eat.

I use full fat versions of foods such as full fat mayo and full fat cream cheese, I eat a lot of salads and vegetables and I feel full and happy. I eat the same number of calories as I used when I ate bread and pasta but this way I don’t feel like I am constantly wanting more. For me this is a lot easier to do long term than eating higher carb / low fat where I was constantly wanting more and feeling hungry and deprived a lot.

DearCatherine

The Ketosis diet encourages eating vegetables more than anything else!

mscolleen2003

The only sustainable diet is one you are not on. You need to eat healthy (that requires a change in habits) and exercise. I have been on just about every known diet my whole life ( I also had a gastric bi-pass in 2006). 3 months ago I finally got wise and changed my eating habits and started to exercise. I am now 31 lbs down and at 54 years old feel like I am finally living a normal life. Please consider a change in eating habits for life, it's so much more fun to eat and live a normal existence then to constantly be looking for your next diet.

yarwell

The acidicity of his blood damaged his organs.

So there was something wrong with him other than the diet. My blood pH is controlled in the usual way and is spot on target while being in ketosis.

Very high levels of ketones combined with high blood sugar lead to ketoacidosis in diabetics, but these levels aren't seen in nutritional ketosis.

Think of all the dead epileptics that would be piling up if ketosis was fatal - http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/health-professionals/clinical-guidelines/the-ketogenic-diet-in-the-management-of-epilepsy/

The link above has "old" in it, might be a clue. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ketosis/pages/introduction-old.aspx

failedspinster

Talk to your doctor. They are the best person to advise on the right way for you to lose weight, because they know your state of health and your medical history. What is safe for somebody else may not be safe for you, and vice versa.

Personally, I don't believe that there's any quick fix or reliable way to lose weight permanently except by following a healthy, balanced diet and exercising regularly. Fashionable/fad diets always seem to me to be beset by claims - "it works", "it's bad for you", "it's linked to X disease or Y condition." These diets are surrounded by so much clamour from nutritionists, scientists and people in the street, all competing to shout the loudest about it, that nobody could ever work out the truth. So whether you think ketosis, or any other fad diet, may be the answer, you need to be aware that a) a bunch of people will agree with you; b) a bunch of people will disagree with you; and c) there's no such thing as a free lunch. That's to say, there probably is a catch in it somewhere. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

That said, you asked for opinions, OP, and mine is that I'm not sure that going into ketosis (if that's what this diet will do to you) is a good thing for your body. I base this entirely on the fact that I went into ketosis during a very long labour with my son in April (I kept being sick and couldn't keep anything down). The doctors were absolutely terrified for my health, so I can't imagine a medical person would want you to voluntarily induce ketosis in yourself. As I understand it, ketosis causes the body to break down fats from the liver, which doesn't sound very good for you. Also, who wants to lose weight off their liver?

I dunno. I'd rather stick to moving around more and eating less. It just makes more sense to me.

yarwell

As I understand it, ketosis causes the body to break down fats from the liver, which doesn't sound very good for you. Also, who wants to lose weight off their liver?

Anyone with a brain would like to remove fat from their liver, as fatty liver disease is not a good thing be it from alcohol or eating too much.

The liver is indeed the organ that breaks down fatty acids from fat stores and creates ketones for the brain and other organs to use as fuel. That's how our bodies work. You can fast for a week without ill effect because ketones keep your brain going.

http://www.phschool.com/science/science_news/articles/ketones_to_the_rescue.html