SHOCKING!!! Health Screening Vegetarian to Paleo Comparison
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Also, as others have pointed out, you are only one person, your results are not generalizable to other people.
Where did she say it was? She shared what worked for her, her preferences and her individual circumstances - nothing more.
This is a general point (not directed at you specifically) but if a person is so emotionally invested in a certain way of eating that they feel defensive when someone else merely shows success with a different approach they must ask themselves if that is in fact a healthy mindset
"WOW is all I can say!!! Changing from a Vegetarian diet to a Paleo diet CLEARLY changed ALL my paramenters (except glucose, see * above) in the positive direction! So all that B.S. about eating eggs, bacon, fatty foods, red meat, and other things with lots of cholesterol is A TOTAL CROCK!!! "
Just because something worked for her doesn't mean everything else is a crock and her number changes were quite small. She's acting like he lost 50lbs and significantly lower all her points, which she didn't. And as others pointed out, she wasn't really even paleo.
It is a crock to say that red meat and animal fat is bad for you. She's been eating red meat and animal fat for a year. She didn't do that before. Her numbers are better now, not worse as vegans would like us to believe. She's not attacking you, she's celebrating finding a healthy diet she liked. Get over yourself.0 -
You can be perfectly healthy on a vegetarian diet. You can also be perfectly healthy on a paleo diet. However, everyone has different lifestyles, and one may be a better fit than the other. Paleo seems to be working better for the OP. She's not saying vegetarianism is bad, just that it doesn't work as well for her.
But let the nit picking continue...I suppose that's inevitable in these paleo/vegetarian threads.0 -
Weight isn't the gauge of health she was using, which is my point.
after a _year_, none of these numbers are impressive
BMI 25 24 [-1] 18.5-24.9
WaistCircumference 29.5 29 [-.5] <35 [one half inch.. no other measurements?]
Blood Pressure 128/75 mmHg 122/74 [-6/-1] <120/80
Total Cholesterol 198 mg/dl 190 [-8] 100-199
HDL (healthy) Cholesterol 87 mg/dl 99 [+12!!!] >50
LDL (bad) Cholesterol 95 mg/dl 79 mg/dl [-16!!!!!!!!] <100 [bad cholesterol 79mgs]
Triglycerides 75 mg/dl 57 mg/dl [-18!!!!!!] 45-149
Risk Ratio 2.3 1.9 <4.4
Fasting Glucose 92 mg/dl 95 mg/dl [+3*] 50-99
Her physical fitness is impressive, diet, not so much. next time I'll keep my mouth shut and just give everyone a misguided praise since obviously this isn't a place for honesty.0 -
Paleo seems to be working better for the OP.
And that would be awesome for her. If she was actually on a paleo diet and that is my point.0 -
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Oh my, the paleo police!
Here's paleo:
- meat (preferable grass-fed, humanely raised, non-processed). Some people bend the rules and eat processed meat like lunch meat. It's depends how "strict" you are. Some people (the HORROR) eat Boar's Head. Other's spend a little more and buy Apple Gate or another brand that is probably more healthful (and expensive). Some people even select an item in the MFP diary that is SIMILAR to something they ate, but not exactly the same brand. Oh dear. How to police that!
- veggies (preferably organic, at least for the dirty dozen). Even POTATOES!!! Yes, sweet AND white, but some people limit white if they're trying to lose weight.
- fruit (some limit to 2/day based on desire to lose weight, and choose less carb-heavy ones, but all fruit is welcome!)
- seeds
- nuts - some people limit the nuts if they are trying to lose weight, or if they have nut allergies
And, with all of the above, emphasis put on eating healthy fats, and limiting unhealthy fats from processed foods and seed oils like canola, safflower, sunflower, etc.
That's it folks. Not too complicated. I would not say it's a strictly meat-based diet. I would say it's equally meat and veggie/fruit.
Now, some people do not feel the need to limit dairy, and the inclusion of dairy has been coined "Primal" based on Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint. Primal in general, is less restrictive than Paleo.
So, Primal = everything above, plus dairy. But it's usually easier just to say Paleo because Primal sounds funny. Whatever.
You can look at both of these "diets" as emphasizing foods that our ancestors ate. Or you can ignore that, and think of them more as "diets" that eliminate many foods that are related intestinal issues, inflammation, insulin resistance, obesity, allergies, and auto-immune disorders.
Bon appetit.0 -
LOL. I love HuffPo, but sometimes it makes me crazy. Here's what I posted in reply on the Paleo group board.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/745936-head-bang-sigh-another-bad-article-about-paleo-on-huffpo0 -
Paleo seems to be working better for the OP.
And that would be awesome for her. If she was actually on a paleo diet and that is my point.
oh my GOHD! Please just stop and go back to wherever you came from... Seriously. Why are you taking someone else's successes in life so personally? Go eat whatever you want, exercise however you want and stop judging!!! After a year these numbers arent impressive? For real? Where are your numbers and diary that are so much better?! The proof is in the pudding.
Mmmm.... pudding.....0 -
Also, as others have pointed out, you are only one person, your results are not generalizable to other people.
Where did she say it was? She shared what worked for her, her preferences and her individual circumstances - nothing more.
This is a general point (not directed at you specifically) but if a person is so emotionally invested in a certain way of eating that they feel defensive when someone else merely shows success with a different approach they must ask themselves if that is in fact a healthy mindset
"WOW is all I can say!!! Changing from a Vegetarian diet to a Paleo diet CLEARLY changed ALL my paramenters (except glucose, see * above) in the positive direction! So all that B.S. about eating eggs, bacon, fatty foods, red meat, and other things with lots of cholesterol is A TOTAL CROCK!!! "
Just because something worked for her doesn't mean everything else is a crock and her number changes were quite small. She's acting like he lost 50lbs and significantly lower all her points, which she didn't. And as others pointed out, she wasn't really even paleo.
It is a crock to say that red meat and animal fat is bad for you. She's been eating red meat and animal fat for a year. She didn't do that before. Her numbers are better now, not worse as vegans would like us to believe. She's not attacking you, she's celebrating finding a healthy diet she liked. Get over yourself.
I haven't seen many people make the argument that small amounts of red meat and animal fat are bad for you, I have seen some argue that in excess they are, which is the typical american diet. I am also vegan and I am not attacking her, I'm just pointing out that no one said these foods were, in themselves bad, but in excess, like with most things they can cause problems. Get over yourself.0 -
Paleo seems to be working better for the OP.
And that would be awesome for her. If she was actually on a paleo diet and that is my point.
oh my GOHD! Please just stop and go back to wherever you came from... Seriously. Why are you taking someone else's successes in life so personally? Go eat whatever you want, exercise however you want and stop judging!!! After a year these numbers arent impressive? For real? Where are your numbers and diary that are so much better?! The proof is in the pudding.
Mmmm.... pudding.....
I'll post back in 2 weeks. I should be able to shake this upper respiratory infection by monday. Today i weighed in at 140 and when I joined in mid july, I started at 147. All of my cholesterol numbers and such have been at the low end of healthy and if my blood pressure was any lower I'd be fainting. Should I keep my regular diet? paleo? or clean? your choice.0 -
Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks to me like someone got the bright idea to call "normal healthy nutrition" Paleo and made a billion dollars. Geesh, what a world:laugh:
Indeed.
However, I doubt there has been a "billion dollars" made from paleo yet...that will come once larger food manufacturers start labeling things as "paleo", "paleo approved", etc...and yet, these foods will be nothing like the current interpretation of "paleo". I'm seeing more and more people who formerly identified themselves as "paleo" distancing themselves from the label (but still adhering to the "lifestyle"), so perhaps that day is closer than I think.
I think this was a good way to end this horrendous conversation... Well put (as always) J!0 -
Of course, what was the quality of your vegetarian diet? I mean, I've known vegetarians who didn't like vegetables and got fat on cheese fries. It's a lot harder to overeat on Paleo, because snack machines are full of chips and candy and low on big hunks of beef.0
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Another person enlightened! Another person rejecting the lies of angelic carbs vs evil fat.
Fat does NOT make people fat. Carbs and your body's insulin response to carbs is what makes people fat. Period!
The science is clear. The government is trying to fatten us up just like the agricultural industry fattens livestock. Grains, grains, and more grains. Why would they want to fatten us up, you ask? Because inflammation based diseases, which are produced by excessive carbs over years and represents the majority of modern diseases, require expensive drugs to try and hold at bay. And we spend billions over billions on them every year. /EndRant
I'm so glad you've seen the light!
Oh god.
Feel free to provide that science why don't you.0 -
Another person enlightened! Another person rejecting the lies of angelic carbs vs evil fat.
Fat does NOT make people fat. Carbs and your body's insulin response to carbs is what makes people fat. Period!
The science is clear. The government is trying to fatten us up just like the agricultural industry fattens livestock. Grains, grains, and more grains. Why would they want to fatten us up, you ask? Because inflammation based diseases, which are produced by excessive carbs over years and represents the majority of modern diseases, require expensive drugs to try and hold at bay. And we spend billions over billions on them every year. /EndRant
I'm so glad you've seen the light!
Oh god.
Feel free to provide that science why don't you.
That is a funny rant. I really don't think the government, Big Agriculture and Big Pharma are in cahoots in some secret conspiracy to fatten us up. But, you're right. Inflammation-based diseases are big money because so many people suffer from them, and many of those drugs really do save lives, so doctors recommend them, and insurance companies put them on their formularies. And yes, Big Pharma has a HUGE lobby to elect pharma-friendly politicians on both sides of the aisle, and to lobby the insurance companies to reimburse their expensive new drugs.
And, why do so many people requiring very expensive life-saving drugs? Because often they are obese and diabetic with chronic heart disease, RA, arthritis, etc etc. Largely due to their diet. Which brings us back to Big Agriculture pumping out the corn and wheat and sugar and soy that goes into all the processed foods and oils. And they ALSO have a huge lobby to politicians.
But I don't think our politicians are trying to fatten us and kill us. I think they are merely enslaved by the system of lobbying and campaign dollars.
It would make for a great conspiracy novel, though. Thanks for the idea!!! Who's going to race me to self-publish that one?
Oh wait... gosh darnit. I think Michael Pollan already beat me to it, right? Corn is taking over the world, and has us wrapped around it's delicious little ear. I love that guy.0 -
The Paleo diet has been found to be healthier on every parameter of blood chemistry. The key is that it reduces blood sugar and thus excessive insulin, high triglycerides, and other things as a consequence--such as reducing high levels of cortisol, bad LDL cholesterol and raising good HDL cholesterol. I'm surprised that your fasting blood sugar went up---most people find that theirs' go down. You could have it tested again just to make sure that there was no lab error.
I have lost 14 pounds since I went on Paleo and have been able to nearly get off my blood pressure medications. I was taking two medications at the maximum dose for each and now I take a quarter dose of one I am confident that I will be able to get off of that when I lose a bit more weight and become even more active. My arthritis is better than it has been in a long time and I feel so much more energetic! I will never go back to eating sugar and grains! It is fairly certain that high consumption of sugar and grains, combined with sedentary lifestyles, is responsible for the obesity and Type II diabetes epidemic that Western nations are currently experiencing.
I believe the Paleo Diet can be healthy. Just wanted to put that out there before anyone accuses me of bashing it.
But your post prompts a few questions:
1. Who has found the Paleo diet "to be healthier on every parameter of blood chemistry", and healthier than what?
2. Are you sedentary and eat a Paleo diet? If not, then how can you logically attribute all the success to the diet, since exercise alone is known to improve blood chemistry, as well as improve energy levels?
3. Limiting sugar and eating whole grains instead of overly processed grains has had the same affect that you describe for many people. Do you not feel it's possible that you would have had similar results had you simply reduced your intake of these things, along with total calories?
1. Admittedly, the people certifying it as healthier are those obesity experts who are enthusiastic about the diet.
2. I am fairly sedentary because of my arthritis although I am beginning to be more active due to the diminution of my arthritis symptoms and my increased energy levels. I eat a lot more fish than red meat because red meat is associated with higher levels of inflammation but then, I have always eaten more fish than red meat. The consumption of sugar and grains is also associated with inflammation.
3. I have always eaten whole grains when I was eating them and I have eaten little if any junk food for years.0 -
I've been looking all over for the snack machine with big hunks of meat0
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I've been looking all over for the snack machine with big hunks of meat
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Another person enlightened! Another person rejecting the lies of angelic carbs vs evil fat.
Fat does NOT make people fat. Carbs and your body's insulin response to carbs is what makes people fat. Period!
The science is clear. The government is trying to fatten us up just like the agricultural industry fattens livestock. Grains, grains, and more grains. Why would they want to fatten us up, you ask? Because inflammation based diseases, which are produced by excessive carbs over years and represents the majority of modern diseases, require expensive drugs to try and hold at bay. And we spend billions over billions on them every year. /EndRant
I'm so glad you've seen the light!
kcwebguy, where do you come up with these idiotic ideas? If you ever quoted (with citations) an actual scientific paper or study I would be shocked. The nonsense you spew, if you used half the effort (you spend trying to convince people your not a fool) into study you could actually learn a fact or two.0 -
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I'll post back in 2 weeks. I should be able to shake this upper respiratory infection by monday. Today i weighed in at 140 and when I joined in mid july, I started at 147. All of my cholesterol numbers and such have been at the low end of healthy and if my blood pressure was any lower I'd be fainting. Should I keep my regular diet? paleo? or clean? your choice.
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youre still missing the point. the OP wasnt even about weight loss. it was about overall health.0 -
Was your vegetarian diet healthy? I'm a veggie but used to eat very unhealthily - last year totally changed it around and lost 35lbs and eat healthily and exercise. I am still a veggie - bet if you did my stats from a year ago to now there would be a huge difference.... it's all about the types of choices you make - and anyone with any sense knows that eating healthily is the key. You can be amssivily obsese vegetarian or skinny one or meat eater or whatever....0
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I'll post back in 2 weeks. I should be able to shake this upper respiratory infection by monday. Today i weighed in at 140 and when I joined in mid july, I started at 147. All of my cholesterol numbers and such have been at the low end of healthy and if my blood pressure was any lower I'd be fainting. Should I keep my regular diet? paleo? or clean? your choice.
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youre still missing the point. the OP wasnt even about weight loss. it was about overall health.
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Ok,I will comment on the OP's point about how shocking her paleo diet has made her so much healthier over the course of a year compared to her unknown vegetarian diet.
Her over all numbers, completely discounting the weight loss, isn't impressive. Her choice of foods on the paleo diet isn't impressive. she suggested we look at her food log. did you look at it? did you review more than 3 days during various times of the week/month? It's not impressive.
It's not impressive for the course of a year. Her over all numbers over the course of year are not impressive. Her over all claim is not impressive. For 3-5 months, sure! for a year? Not so much.
This site is supposed to be supportive, I get that. I'm generally a supportive person when it comes to nutrition. However, I'm not going to lie and say "Oh, that's awesome, good for you" maybe I should. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut next time. or all the time. It's ridiculous to be patting someone on the back when they claim this kind of thing.
That is all I have to say.0 -
:bigsmile:Every night before I go to bed I eat 4 girl scout thin mints and I consistantly lose about 2lbs a week, thank you thin mints!
I am intrigued by your thin mint diet and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.0
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