It must be more than math...

jonilynn70

I did the calculations and my BMR is 1,382. I am 142, 5'6, 41 years old. I added in 30% for "lightly active" and this gives me 1,796 for maintenance. My food diary is unlocked. I have my bad moments as we all do but for the most part I eat fairly healthy and rarely hit that 1,800 figure. So why am I not losing? In fact I am gaining again. Is it the 2 or 3 bad choices I make each week really affecting my ability to lose? I know people who eat a horrible diet and still lose or at least maintain. So my question is, is it really all math??!

AmyRhubarb

You said you've figured maintenance at 1796? If you are eating 1800, or close to it, that's probably why. What is your TDEE? And did you use the BMR calculations here at MFP or from another site?

This thread gave me some great info and links to tools to calculate my BMR, my TDEE and helped me figure out how much I should be eating to meet my goals. It's working for me - check it out: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

LoraF83

You diary is locked!

How do you figure "lightly active"? Most people underestimate their activity level.

I agree with AmyRhubarb - read the link she posted. It's great!!

Acg67

Underestimation of caloric intake

deksgrl

What is your target calorie goal? If you are eating near your maintenance and possibly underestimating the amount you are eating, that is why you aren't losing. You should eat 15-20% less than maintenance to lose weight. Which should be somewhere around the 1,500 calorie range.

Sarauk2sf

The numbers are just estimates based on averages. They are not specific to you. If you are gaining, you are eating more than you expend. This can be boiled down to two reasons - you are overestimating your expenditure or underestimating your intake.

mariposa224

I didn't look at your diary when you messaged me earlier. I just had a look. You don't have sodium tracked or your water intake. Plus some days you're WAY under on calories... If you're exercising the amount you mentioned in the message, I would have to confirm my thought that you actually aren't eating enough for your activity level... And your sodium may be high, espcially with the Subway and things like that. The sodium content in one sandwich is ridiculous. I don't know how much water you're drinking, but if your sodium is high, you need to drink even more. As I also mentioned, I think the gain you experienced is also more than likely water retention.

jonilynn70

The numbers are just estimates based on averages. They are not specific to you. If you are gaining, you are eating more than you expend. This can be boiled down to two reasons - you are overestimating your expenditure or underestimating your intake.

In your opinion does it matter WHAT the calorie consists of or just the fact that you burn more than you take in? THAT is the item I am struggling with the most right now. If it is simple math and it doesn't matter what the calories consist of, it'd be a lot easier than trying to balance the carb/fat/protein etc. etc. balance or do you follow low glycemic or low carb or low cal or clean eating or what. Argh!!

Sarauk2sf

The numbers are just estimates based on averages. They are not specific to you. If you are gaining, you are eating more than you expend. This can be boiled down to two reasons - you are overestimating your expenditure or underestimating your intake.

In your opinion does it matter WHAT the calorie consists of or just the fact that you burn more than you take in? THAT is the item I am struggling with the most right now. If it is simple math and it doesn't matter what the calories consist of, it'd be a lot easier than trying to balance the carb/fat/protein etc. etc. balance or do you follow low glycemic or low carb or low cal or clean eating or what. Argh!!

Unless you have some kind of medical condition, and assuming that you have a relatively nutrient dense diet for health reasons, then no, it does not matter. I would recommend however making sure you get enough protein (combined with resistance training to minimize LBM loss) and enough fats for your body to work effectively.

Basically, eat mostly nutritious foods in whatever way ensures compliance with maintaining a calorie deficit.

lmelangley

Lightly active means exercising several days a week. If you're not doing that, even if you're a busy kind of person, your lifestyle is probably sendentary. What I'd suggest is moving your setup to sendentary and then eating back exercise calories.

Good luck!

Sarauk2sf

Lightly active means exercising several days a week. If you're not doing that, even if you're a busy kind of person, your lifestyle is probably sendentary. What I'd suggest is moving your setup to sendentary and then eating back exercise calories.

Good luck!

Not on here is does not. The activity settings for MFP are re lifestyle and do not include exercise.

JasonDetwiler

It is more than math. All calories are not created equal and timing is important.

Sarauk2sf

It is more than math. All calories are not created equal and timing is important.

Lolz

JasonDetwiler

Would you care to expand on that? To simply imply that calories regardless of source and regardless of timing disregards much of how the body functions.

Sarauk2sf

Would you care to expand on that? To simply imply that calories regardless of source and regardless of timing disregards much of how the body functions.

Would you like to expand on your statement that all calories are not created equal, from a long term weight loss perspective and that intra day meal timing is in any way shape or form relevant.

JasonDetwiler

Would you care to expand on that? To simply imply that calories regardless of source and regardless of timing disregards much of how the body functions.

Would you like to expand on your statement that all calories are not created equal, from a long term weight loss perspective and that intra day meal timing is in any way shape or form relevant.

Long term weight loss, calorie counting is good and proven. Short term fat loss, not so simple. I've only been on this forum a day, but it seems folks here are too willing to discount the various ways that the body responds to stimuli.

First is to decide if you want to lose weight or lose fat. I only talk about losing fat. I'll bow out of any conversation where the barometer of success begins and ends with the number on the scale.

Now on to losing fat. Significant research exists to support that nutrient timing WRT both waking and Pre/Post training affects the way the body responds to different macro nutrient inputs. Since your profile says you'll "take the $#!+ out of some bro-science," which I interpret to mean that you will listen to anecdotal evidence from someone who has experienced a result for himself or one of his bros, I offer you my latest experience with Carb Backloading. 12 weeks ago I weighed 215, up from 205 before I started eating everything in sight to pack on as much as I could over the holidays and into the spring. I started CBL with three weeks of Carb Nite, dropped to 195 rather quickly with the same total calorie intake as before, just moving everything carb related to meat except my Carb Nite. Now I'm on CBL and the calories are really not that different, maybe up or down 1-200 each day depending on the next morning's training session, and I'm still losing fat at 190.

The CBL book is 327 pages and has 30 pages of works cited. Significant research exists to support the idea that eating different things at different times can aid in fat loss, especially when at a caloric deficit.

Sarauk2sf

Would you care to expand on that? To simply imply that calories regardless of source and regardless of timing disregards much of how the body functions.

Would you like to expand on your statement that all calories are not created equal, from a long term weight loss perspective and that intra day meal timing is in any way shape or form relevant.

Long term weight loss, calorie counting is good and proven. Short term fat loss, not so simple. I've only been on this forum a day, but it seems folks here are too willing to discount the various ways that the body responds to stimuli.

First is to decide if you want to lose weight or lose fat. I only talk about losing fat. I'll bow out of any conversation where the barometer of success begins and ends with the number on the scale.

Now on to losing fat. Significant research exists to support that nutrient timing WRT both waking and Pre/Post training affects the way the body responds to different macro nutrient inputs. Since your profile says you'll "take the $#!+ out of some bro-science," which I interpret to mean that you will listen to anecdotal evidence from someone who has experienced a result for himself or one of his bros, I offer you my latest experience with Carb Backloading. 12 weeks ago I weighed 215, up from 205 before I started eating everything in sight to pack on as much as I could over the holidays and into the spring. I started CBL with three weeks of Carb Nite, dropped to 195 rather quickly with the same total calorie intake as before, just moving everything carb related to meat except my Carb Nite. Now I'm on CBL and the calories are really not that different, maybe up or down 1-200 each day depending on the next morning's training session, and I'm still losing fat at 190.

The CBL book is 327 pages and has 30 pages of works cited. Significant research exists to support the idea that eating different things at different times can aid in fat loss, especially when at a caloric deficit.

Actually, I like peer reviewed studies NOT anecdotal evidence, so if you could quote some of these that would be great. However, I do agree that there is some possibility to carb backloading being beneficial based on a study I have seen. Its not conclusive but imo is compelling if somewhat micromanaging the weight loss process.

Here, I will start and cite it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137

Could you add to this as you seem to be referring to a broader spectrum than just carbs at night.

Also, I agree that fat loss is the important factor imo, not weight loss.

JasonDetwiler

Thanks for clearing up your position on Broscience. When I read your profile I wasn't sure if you meant you were in favor or opposed, so I took a guess.

At this point in my experience, I have only experimented with the CBL and I have not read any of the peer reviewed scientific publications that Kiefer refers to in the CBL book, but I have read the book through once and gone back to re-read the parts that were particularly applicable to me (training in the morning).

I'll see if I can make a good summary of the response from the body and the theory behind CBL, but I'm going to need to get the book out and make sure I'm on point and not wrecking Kiefer's good work. Good discussion, should we move this to a new thread?

Sarauk2sf

Thanks for clearing up your position on Broscience. When I read your profile I wasn't sure if you meant you were in favor or opposed, so I took a guess.

At this point in my experience, I have only experimented with the CBL and I have not read any of the peer reviewed scientific publications that Kiefer refers to in the CBL book, but I have read the book through once and gone back to re-read the parts that were particularly applicable to me (training in the morning).

I'll see if I can make a good summary of the response from the body and the theory behind CBL, but I'm going to need to get the book out and make sure I'm on point and not wrecking Kiefer's good work. Good discussion, should we move this to a new thread?

Taking the piss = laugh at it (English term)

If you do get a chance to pull the studies I would be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

mmapags

Bump I would also like to see the studies that indicate nutrient timing is relevant. My reading has indicated the opposite.

mmapags

The numbers are just estimates based on averages. They are not specific to you. If you are gaining, you are eating more than you expend. This can be boiled down to two reasons - you are overestimating your expenditure or underestimating your intake.

In your opinion does it matter WHAT the calorie consists of or just the fact that you burn more than you take in? THAT is the item I am struggling with the most right now. If it is simple math and it doesn't matter what the calories consist of, it'd be a lot easier than trying to balance the carb/fat/protein etc. etc. balance or do you follow low glycemic or low carb or low cal or clean eating or what. Argh!!

Unless you have some kind of medical condition, and assuming that you have a relatively nutrient dense diet for health reasons, then no, it does not matter. I would recommend however making sure you get enough protein (combined with resistance training to minimize LBM loss) and enough fats for your body to work effectively.

Basically, eat mostly nutritious foods in whatever way ensures compliance with maintaining a calorie deficit.

I completely agree. I would add that managing your macronutrients is also a key part of the equation.

mmapags

It is more than math. All calories are not created equal and timing is important.

A calories is nothing more than a unit of measure for energy. What you may mean is that every macronutrient and/or micrronutrient is not created equal? How much you eat is one issue (calories). What you eat is another.

TheVimFuego

You can disregard the state of your metabolism and treat this like a pure energy in/out maths puzzle if you wish.

I wouldn't.

pg3ibew

It is ALL Math. You are either over/underestimating your daily activity level and/or your dialy caloric intake level. Or you are measuring your food wrong. It is ALL MATH.

You are doing something wrong.
Are you weighing and measuring properly.

TheVimFuego

A calories is nothing more than a unit of measure for energy. What you may mean is that every macronutrient and/or micrronutrient is not created equal? How much you eat is one issue (calories). What you eat is another.

What you eat determines how it is processed, which determines how the calories are used.

And changing the macronutrient composition will have a profound effect on this.

pg3ibew

You can disregard the state of your metabolism and treat this like a pure energy in/out maths puzzle if you wish.

I wouldn't.

I did just that and and used just math and it worked marvelously.

jonilynn70

And the back-and-forth conversation above is half the reason why I don't even know what is the right direction to reach the last part of my goal.... too many things that can be done wrong, too little to do right, too confusing to know what is best. I guess I'll just go about my way with my plan to be consistent with my exercise and let the calories fall where they may. Just trying to whiddle my middle and drop that final size.

StinkyWinkies

From my research 30% is too high (for me, just to be clear). I set activity to 'sedentary' and 'eat back' calories burned, if I choose. Drink plenty of water, get plenty of rest; these are factors in weight loss/gain as well.

deksgrl

And the back-and-forth conversation above is half the reason why I don't even know what is the right direction to reach the last part of my goal.... too many things that can be done wrong, too little to do right, too confusing to know what is best. I guess I'll just go about my way with my plan to be consistent with my exercise and let the calories fall where they may. Just trying to whiddle my middle and drop that final size.

You never answered what your actual calorie goal is. Your original post was not clear on that.

mmapags

A calories is nothing more than a unit of measure for energy. What you may mean is that every macronutrient and/or micrronutrient is not created equal? How much you eat is one issue (calories). What you eat is another.

What you eat determines how it is processed, which determines how the calories are used.

And changing the macronutrient composition will have a profound effect on this.

There is some validity to this line of thinking. However, taking in too much energy of any kind will cause fat storage. But, in support of what you said, taking in too many carbs can cause things like insulin sensitivity, increased triglycerides etc. Thus, my statement a few posts back applies. You need to manage both total calories and macronutrients.

jonilynn70

It is ALL Math. You are either over/underestimating your daily activity level and/or your dialy caloric intake level. Or you are measuring your food wrong. It is ALL MATH.

You are doing something wrong.
Are you weighing and measuring properly.

Well I have been using the counters here on MFP for both exercise and food calories so I'm not certain where I could be going wrong in that regard. I believe my poor food choices in the last week have created some of the problem and being close to my goal may make it just that much more difficult. I have never been this close to goal before so it's all new territory for me. Thanks for your thoughts.