The Starvation Mode Myth...again.
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Not to mention most of the "starvation mode" (lack of a better term) wont even start until your BF gets below 10 percent according to what ive read and understand.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I always used to think that "starvation mode" was mostly hype. However, a bit more than a month ago, I cut my daily calorie intake from 1,930 to 1,680 in order to accellerate weight loss. Within 1 week, I started gaining weight. Within 4 weeks, I had gained about 5 lbs.
Really, in order to GAIN weight, you need to be taking in more calories than you were expending. You cannot consume LESS and gain weight, just like you drink more alcohol and get less drunk. It really is that simple.
I've always thought that and understood it to be the case. So tell me... wtf happened in my circumstance?
No idea. I'm by no means an expert. But there are lots of variables that could have affected weight. You say you felt hungrier - is it possible that you (even subconsciously) cut down on cardio due to lack of energy? 1680 is not a lot of calories - I eat more than that! Last week I cut my calories and I was so tired from the change that I skipped all my dance classes for the first three days, went home and slept.
Did you change the actual foods you were eating? I know people say it doesn't matter what you eat, only how much, but for me more processed foods (sodium) shows a gain or a stall on the scale.
If I'm strength training hard, especially if I just upped the weight a notch, I'll completely stall on the scale.
Lots of things can play a part, but not starvation mode. Like someone just said, for metabolic issues to occur, we're talking way more than a few weeks and far fewer calories than 1600.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I always used to think that "starvation mode" was mostly hype. However, a bit more than a month ago, I cut my daily calorie intake from 1,930 to 1,680 in order to accellerate weight loss. Within 1 week, I started gaining weight. Within 4 weeks, I had gained about 5 lbs.
Really, in order to GAIN weight, you need to be taking in more calories than you were expending. You cannot consume LESS and gain weight, just like you drink more alcohol and get less drunk. It really is that simple.
I've always thought that and understood it to be the case. So tell me... wtf happened in my circumstance?
No idea. I'm by no means an expert. But there are lots of variables that could have affected weight. You say you felt hungrier - is it possible that you (even subconsciously) cut down on cardio due to lack of energy? 1680 is not a lot of calories - I eat more than that! Last week I cut my calories and I was so tired from the change that I skipped all my dance classes for the first three days, went home and slept.
Did you change the actual foods you were eating? I know people say it doesn't matter what you eat, only how much, but for me more processed foods (sodium) shows a gain or a stall on the scale.
If I'm strength training hard, especially if I just upped the weight a notch, I'll completely stall on the scale.
Lots of things can play a part, but not starvation mode. Like someone just said, for metabolic issues to occur, we're talking way more than a few weeks and far fewer calories than 1600.
I wasn't really exercising before-hand beyond normal daily activities, and didn't afterwards. The Fitbit didn't indicate a major decrease in normal daily walking.
I did not change the actual foods, just ate less than normal.
Seriously, though, it would be nice to have an explanation. The problem with any explanation that people try to come up with is that it is based on another [assumed] change that occured. I didn't change activity levels, I didn't change the actual foods, I didn't change sleep habits, I didn't change macros or even micronutrients... I didn't change anything except the amount of food (calories). Making that one change caused me to gain weight, and then making the change back caused a quick loss of the recent gain. By the way, that confirmed what I had read (that eating less than RMR could cause weight gain).0 -
Maybe your scale broke!0
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Maybe your scale broke!
Same scale, relatively new in fact, showing downward trends for 2 months, then an upward trend for a month, and now a downard trend again. So even if it was broken when I bought it, there are patterns... so it is not as though it was just giving random results.0 -
i mean, not having monitored you for the entire time, I really can't say. There are just too many things that are the real culprit of weight gain, not eating less.0
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It could be a decrease in leptin at that level of food intake (starvation mode, depending upon what terminology you care to use). Everyone here at MFP wants to believe it is as simple as calories in vs. calories out. The human body is much more complex than that, and it is important to acknowledge this important fact.0
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Here is my idea about it, yes, based on anecdotal clinical work. I found that working with women who were eating approximately 800-1200 kcals per day, they often were stalled in weight loss. If we bumped them to above 1200 kcals per day weight loss would restart. What we thought was going on is that below about 1200, metabolism slows (aka body getting more efficient) thus slowing weight loss. Once down below about 800 kcals, the deficit is too great for even the slowed metabolism to compensate for, so with very low calorie diets you will still see weight loss progress. Our rule of thumb was 1200 minimum for females and 1800 minimum for males.
Like I said, this is anecdotal and there isn't any empiricism to it, but if you are stalled and below those thresholds, trying to raise your calories might help.2 -
Yeah. What is it with you and that book?0
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If you are implying that I'm claiming to be an expert, you are wrong. I merely brought up leptin as a possible explanation for my circumstance. I really seriously wish I had a better (or any plausible) explanation as to why I gained weight when cutting calories below RMR.
So if you are an expert, please enlighten me. (PS: I've already pointed out no changes in types of foods, activity, or methods and tools of measurement for both foods and my weight from when I was losing weight at higher calorie intake to when I was gaining weight at a lower calorie intake and then back to losing again upon returning to a higher calorie intake at a smaller deficit).
As I've said, I always used to believe the idea of "starvation mode" and gaining weight at lowered calorie intake was complete BS until my own experience.0 -
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The whole leptin thing has been pretty much debunked.
Downloaded you Guyton's?
Good.. Leptin is a hormone secreted by fat cells and has many physiological effects, but it is especially important in regulating appetite and energy balance, as discussed in Chapter 71.
https://www.inkling.com/read/guyton-hall-textbook-of-medical-physiology-12th/chapter-74/mechanisms-of-action-of-hormones
Methinks you don't understand your own bible.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »If you are implying that I'm claiming to be an expert, you are wrong. I merely brought up leptin as a possible explanation for my circumstance. I really seriously wish I had a better (or any plausible) explanation as to why I gained weight when cutting calories below RMR.
So if you are an expert, please enlighten me. (PS: I've already pointed out no changes in types of foods, activity, or methods and tools of measurement for both foods and my weight from when I was losing weight at higher calorie intake to when I was gaining weight at a lower calorie intake and then back to losing again upon returning to a higher calorie intake at a smaller deficit).
As I've said, I always used to believe the idea of "starvation mode" and gaining weight at lowered calorie intake was complete BS until my own experience.
Read my long post again.
What was your approach to get in the fat-burning mode while running a calorie deficit?
Just running a small calorie deficit caused me to lose weight. Running a larger deficit / fewer calories intaken caused me to gain weight. Why?0 -
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Well I'm a classic example of someone who has yo yoed, done many diet plans from Nutrisystem to Weight Watchers to Beverly Hills etc.. Never lost much weight, about 25lb total in the past 25 years of my life.
Fast forward to this year, I am 57, 5'1" tall and weighed 198 lb, on July 28th I started at the gym. I had my diet reviewed and was told I do not eat enough. Had my calories increased, been working hard on keeping my macros in line with prescribed ones by my PT who is also certified in Nutrition counselling. I am down 10 lbs, and many inches. I feel fantastic, I am not hungry and I don't feel the need to snack, ever!
I went from avg of 1450 calories per day to 1775 calories per day. While 1450 is not starvation mode years of not eating well set me in Yo yo mode. We all need to do our research, find out what works and stick to in consistently.
As someone who believed I needed to eat less, I am now happy to share that you can increase your calories as long as you eat mindfully and don't eat packaged garbage foods full of chemicals, too much sugar, salt and fat.
Good luck to all those who are struggling to find what works, be patient it will come. And when it does it is the sweetest feeling there is.1 -
@divediva2 I wish there were a "Like" button here. 0 -
please I don't understand does MFP is wrong and not a healthy way to lose ??
it said 1200 calorie goal for me...
anyone tell me am i in starvation mode ? but I eat
so confused
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I literally don't know where to start.
@midwesterner85, don't sweat it. You get to eat more and lose at a good pace, that's a good thing, don't worry too much about what did or didn't happen. I have had success eating higher calories (2000 as opposed to 1600-1700) when I paired it with HEAVY lifting. Didn't change my weight much but definitely made me much slimmer - I lost inches. I think there's something to be said about eating more and using that energy to be active. But I still don't believe eating less causes weight gain.
And whats'isname - To Kill a Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, anything by Bill Bryson - all great examples of other books one can read and enjoy. Step away from the Guytons.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Just running a small calorie deficit caused me to lose weight. Running a larger deficit / fewer calories intaken caused me to gain weight. Why?
Because you're a special snowflake who defies all the laws of physiology, that's why.
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It just bums me out a bit because I would like to speed up weight loss, but cannot do so without spending a lot of time on exercise in order to have a greater deficit (time I don't have).0
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I read a study that said Biggest Loser contestants did indeed lower their metabolisms for the long term even though they did retain some muscle because of the weight training.0
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FunkyTobias wrote: »The whole leptin thing has been pretty much debunked.
Downloaded you Guyton's?
Good.. Leptin is a hormone secreted by fat cells and has many physiological effects, but it is especially important in regulating appetite and energy balance, as discussed in Chapter 71.
https://www.inkling.com/read/guyton-hall-textbook-of-medical-physiology-12th/chapter-74/mechanisms-of-action-of-hormones
Methinks you don't understand your own bible.
It plays a role, of course, but in those who are of normal weight.
But they have tried to make leptin analogues and work on the leptin receptor in order to try to find a magic bullet pill to cure obesity, but they didn't come up with anything.
If you are overweight there is an override that blunts the effectiveness of leptin.
It is in Guton's, & I will get the chapter and verse later.
I won't hold my breath. But it would be amusing to see the giant chasm between what your source says and what you believe it means.
Actually if you look at the index and search for lepton you should stumble upon it yourself.
Sigh.
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Hey "Steve", when do we get to see an actual picture of what you look like, since you're such a champion of weight loss?0
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Totally off topic but..... Does it annoy anyone else when people keep quoting the entire original post as if we don't know what they are responding to?0
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Totally off topic but..... Does it annoy anyone else when people keep quoting the entire original post as if we don't know what they are responding to?
No because only the last post in the quote shows, unless you choose to click into 'show previous quotes'
And quoting someone to show what you are responding to is very useful - sometimes posts get added quickly and someone makes a post saying " I agree " or suchlike and we don't know what they are agreeing with.
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paperpudding wrote: »
You didn't get what I was trying to say. Instead of simply replying to the "original post" they click on quote and then reply underneath. I'm not talking about quoting someone else who has added some information.
But again, I post what is on my mind and I get what I deserve....0 -
Totally off topic but..... Does it annoy anyone else when people keep quoting the entire original post as if we don't know what they are responding to?
less than it used to, when we had massively concentric rectangles requoting requotes of reqoutes of...
A small fragment for context and to identify which post is being replied to is sensible.0
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