What is the REAL paleo diet?
Replies
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If people read the article, they will be able to have an intelligent conversation about the topic. Otherwise, you're just giving an opinion on a different subject altogether.0
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Hello! This is not a thread about what diets can be beneficial (although I completely disagree with your statement) This is an tread about what the Paleo Diet is/should be/ must be/ actually was.
Any time a Veggie/vegan goes off about Paleo diets it always ends up a we are better than them kind of thing. People who identify as eating a Paleo/Primal diet do not ever generally think they are truly eating as our ancestors did, but contend that what is being recommended as healthy food right now isn't, and that taking a step back is much better for overall health. That is all. Yes, there are dirt eaters out there, but they are on the fringes, just as there are nutters on the edge of any philosophy.
And no, I'm not too lazy to read the article, I just don't care to presently. If it's anything new and exciting, I'll come across it from a reputable individual from my community. I'd rather use my time searching out that article that discusses how many animals are killed during the average harvest of all those grain crops everyone seems so fond of. But I wouldn't post it here with an inflammatory topic name and see if anybody took the bait and then pretend I didn't mean anything but a healthy discussion.
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Okay, so let me get this right. You don't want to read an article from Scientific American, because you want a biased article from someone who thinks like you do. The Hell with Science, I guess, right. I read articles on what the Paleo diet really is (the subject of this thread by the way) from paleo sources and I am not impressed. The SA article cited here is from a REAL scientist, not someone who has a book to sell.0 -
I read the article. There wasn't any bashing of Paleo or any other diets in there that I saw. I am not vegan, vegetarian, Paleo, low carb, etc. I just eat food. The article does make some really good points that I do see missing in the discussion very frequently.
Why would wine not be part of a Paleo diet? In regions and climates where grapes are prevalent, people would eat grapes. People would pick what they would carry. Grapes begin fermenting and turn into wine quite quickly. In some parts of the world I'm sure some groups of people were able to eat meat more frequently than others. In some areas, it would be very difficult and not very practical to catch an animal source of protein on a regular basis. People would eat what was available in their environment and it would change seasonally. That to me is just common sense. There is no one set this is what they ate, because where they lived really dictated what they ate.
:drinker: I totally agree that fermented foods would make a lot of sense when you are talking about nomadic peoples. Wine sounds like a very natural food, which likely has a long ancestral past.0 -
I read the article. There wasn't any bashing of Paleo or any other diets in there that I saw. I am not vegan, vegetarian, Paleo, low carb, etc. I just eat food. The article does make some really good points that I do see missing in the discussion very frequently.
Why would wine not be part of a Paleo diet? In regions and climates where grapes are prevalent, people would eat grapes. People would pick what they would carry. Grapes begin fermenting and turn into wine quite quickly. In some parts of the world I'm sure some groups of people were able to eat meat more frequently than others. In some areas, it would be very difficult and not very practical to catch an animal source of protein on a regular basis. People would eat what was available in their environment and it would change seasonally. That to me is just common sense. There is no one set this is what they ate, because where they lived really dictated what they ate.
:drinker: I totally agree that fermented foods would make a lot of sense when you are talking about nomadic peoples. Wine sounds like a very natural food, which likely has a long ancestral past.
You only have grape juice for a few days (maybe 2-3), then it starts fermenting. It would have tasted good, been easy to transport, and a simple way to get calories. The whitish stuff on the skin of freshly picked grapes is what starts the process.0 -
Not defending Paleo because lord knows I don't do it, but why do we have to have to overanalyze and eloquently "trash" a diet that can be a healthy diet and one that has helped a lot of people because it doesn't fit into our "box"...
I have no issue with people doing whatever diet works for them. But there are a lot of Paleos who are self-righteous twatwaffles about it, so it's nice to be able to point out to those people that they are self-righteous twatwaffles. That goes for anyone who is a self-righteous twatwaffle about anything, really.0 -
A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
I used to eat a lot of insects - I love chapulines con limon
Thailand dishes, yummm!
And several French cheeses that "move" on their own. Fantastic!
The article seems interesting, thanks OP!0 -
Not defending Paleo because lord knows I don't do it, but why do we have to have to overanalyze and eloquently "trash" a diet that can be a healthy diet and one that has helped a lot of people because it doesn't fit into our "box"...
I have no issue with people doing whatever diet works for them. But there are a lot of Paleos who are self-righteous twatwaffles about it, so it's nice to be able to point out to those people that they are self-righteous twatwaffles. That goes for anyone who is a self-righteous twatwaffle about anything, really.
Okay. Trying to keep this discussion on the article. Sticking it to twatwaffles may be fun and overall a good thing do to, but doing it in this discussion is not really on topic. Please read the article if you haven't and then comment.0 -
What the hel! did I just walk into?0
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A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
I used to eat a lot of insects - I love chapulines con limon
Thailand dishes, yummm!
And several French cheeses that "move" on their own. Fantastic!
The article seems interesting, thanks OP!
According to the article, that was probably authentic Paleo.0 -
Not defending Paleo because lord knows I don't do it, but why do we have to have to overanalyze and eloquently "trash" a diet that can be a healthy diet and one that has helped a lot of people because it doesn't fit into our "box"...
I have no issue with people doing whatever diet works for them. But there are a lot of Paleos who are self-righteous twatwaffles about it, so it's nice to be able to point out to those people that they are self-righteous twatwaffles. That goes for anyone who is a self-righteous twatwaffle about anything, really.
I think people who follow the paleo diet have many things going for them. Eating fresh fruits and vegetables in abundance and avoiding refined foods which tend to be of low nutrient density for the number of calories they provide are worthy goals.0 -
I actually read the article and found it very interesting. Very funny too. Thanks OP for the link.0
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Not defending Paleo because lord knows I don't do it, but why do we have to have to overanalyze and eloquently "trash" a diet that can be a healthy diet and one that has helped a lot of people because it doesn't fit into our "box"...
I have no issue with people doing whatever diet works for them. But there are a lot of Paleos who are self-righteous twatwaffles about it, so it's nice to be able to point out to those people that they are self-righteous twatwaffles. That goes for anyone who is a self-righteous twatwaffle about anything, really.
I think people who follow the paleo diet have many things going for them. Eating fresh fruits and vegetables in abundance and avoiding refined foods which tend to be of low nutrient density for the number of calories they provide are worthy goals.
I don't think I criticized the diet, but OK.0 -
\m/ 0 -
That's actually an interesting article that I have read before. Based on this and other articles, it is asserted that man is primarily frugivorous, followed by nuts and vegetables (leafy I believe). Meat plays a minor role, but is still present.
I think the big point of this post and the article is that paleo man was not exactly feasting constantly on meat and that this concept is rather contrived.
Not sure why there is so much drama about this thread? People are damn touchy in these forums...
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That's actually an interesting article that I have read before. Based on this and other articles, it is asserted that man is primarily frugivorous, followed by nuts and vegetables (leafy I believe). Meat plays a minor role, but is still present.
I think the big point of this post and the article is that paleo man was not exactly feasting constantly on meat and that this concept is rather contrived.
Not sure why there is so much drama about this thread? People are damn touchy in these forums...
Agree with everything you said.0 -
Not defending Paleo because lord knows I don't do it, but why do we have to have to overanalyze and eloquently "trash" a diet that can be a healthy diet and one that has helped a lot of people because it doesn't fit into our "box"...
I have no issue with people doing whatever diet works for them. But there are a lot of Paleos who are self-righteous twatwaffles about it, so it's nice to be able to point out to those people that they are self-righteous twatwaffles. That goes for anyone who is a self-righteous twatwaffle about anything, really.
I think people who follow the paleo diet have many things going for them. Eating fresh fruits and vegetables in abundance and avoiding refined foods which tend to be of low nutrient density for the number of calories they provide are worthy goals.
I don't think I criticized the diet, but OK.
Fair enough. Paleo appears to be a reaction to some of the excesses of the SAD (Standard American Diet), and I just wanted to point out that I agree with the rethinking of what has become a national disaster.0 -
A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
I read the article better than you did, it seems. He hopped from stone age humans to our relatives, such as chimpanzees, and then started up with the insects. Our stone age ancestors in colder climates did eat a lot of meat and not much else because there wasn't much else to eat.
Although if it really makes people happier, we low carb people can always say we're following a modified Inuit diet, which is where modern very low carb diets have a lot of their basis.0 -
I want to try the Henry the VIII diet. Whos with me?!?!
:laugh:0 -
Admittedly I didn't read the article linked, but I have started the new canine diet. Basically I follow my dog around and eat what she eats. It does get a bit uncomfortable when we are staring at each other growling over the last dog turd in the yard, other than that it's been a pretty easy diet to follow.0
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Admittedly I didn't read the article linked, but I have started the new canine diet. Basically I follow my dog around and eat what she eats. It does get a bit uncomfortable when we are staring at each other growling over the last dog turd in the yard, other than that it's been a pretty easy diet to follow.
:laugh: And you get a bit of workout with it, too!0 -
My response is going to be biased. But the OP is clearly a vegetarian, nearly a vegan, and posting that article in itself was kind of biased. It's an article pretty much pointing out how Paleos have it wrong, and vegetarians have it right. Yes, I did read it.
The main point of a Paleo diet is not MEAT MEAT MEAT. I eat more vegetables than my vegetarian friends. At least the way I take it, it's just about eating real, whole food and knowing exactly what you're eating.
No "packaged" foods. No cheese/milk/butter/whatever substitute (look at the ingredients in Daiya vegan cheese... gross). Just real food.0 -
I found the article interesting, and I don't think the OP is pushing an agenda. I read 'twatwaffle' and now I want a waffle with maple syrup.0
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I want to try the Henry the VIII diet. Whos with me?!?!
:laugh:
I'm more of a Louis XIV kind of dieter, myself.0 -
Great article I thought. Balanced and informative with a lot to recommend it. I like how it in some way gave an indication that there are many viable dietary approaches with some suiting individuals better than others for factors specific to that individual and their evolutionary make up.
I would have liked to have seen the author's view of the evolution of relatively much larger gut and colon size of primates in comparison to humans but yet a much smaller brain development in terms of body size. Did the efficiency of the human stomach's ability to extract high quality nutrients from food intake lead to an increase in mass of the old grey matter and therefore less need for gut and colon size to drive what is the most calorifically expensive organ in the body - the brain. Given we know that meat is highly digestible over and above most plant based fare, especially the fibrous variety, was that a main driver behind this difference (note to readers: if anyone thinks this is me recommending ditching delicious and healthy fibrous veg please think again. If you can think that is...)0 -
My response is going to be biased. But the OP is clearly a vegetarian, nearly a vegan, and posting that article in itself was kind of biased. It's an article pretty much pointing out how Paleos have it wrong, and vegetarians have it right. Yes, I did read it.
The main point of a Paleo diet is not MEAT MEAT MEAT. I eat more vegetables than my vegetarian friends. At least the way I take it, it's just about eating real, whole food and knowing exactly what you're eating.
No "packaged" foods. No cheese/milk/butter/whatever substitute (look at the ingredients in Daiya vegan cheese... gross). Just real food.
I am the OP, and I have an interest in both evolutionary biology and nutrition. I thought this was an interesting article with contemporary appeal because the paleo diet has become very popular this year. At the risk of sounding a bit too self-important, I invite you to read my previous postings on this thread. I am attempting to keep my comments respectful and unbiased. Feel free to call me out if I cease doing that. :flowerforyou:0 -
The article supports what most true Paleo dieters say: eat whole fruits and veggies and supplement with meat. The reason the article seems to be anti-paleo is because it starts on a false premise: the paleo diet concentrates on meat with a supplement of fruits and veggies.
The article clearly does not say that early man was a vegetarian. In fact, the article points out that man's digestive tract isn't the same as a herbivore's digestive tract. It also states that early man's diet focused on fruits and veggies and was supplemented with meat.
The one thing I like about this article is that it says that everyone should choose the diet that works best for him/her. This is true.0 -
The article supports what most true Paleo dieters say: eat whole fruits and veggies and supplement with meat. The reason the article seems to be anti-paleo is because it starts on a false premise: the paleo diet concentrates on meat with a supplement of fruits and veggies.
The article clearly does not say that early man was a vegetarian. In fact, the article points out that man's digestive tract isn't the same as a herbivore's digestive tract. It also states that early man's diet focused on fruits and veggies and was supplemented with meat.
The one thing I like about this article is that it says that everyone should choose the diet that works best for him/her. This is true.
I found it interesting that the author pointed out that certain populations evolved to eat dairy (due to a persistance of lactase production beyond infancy) and grains (due to a double set of amylase genes). I also found it interesting how he recommended that people look to their own immediate ancestry to inform their diet.0 -
A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
I read the article better than you did, it seems. He hopped from stone age humans to our relatives, such as chimpanzees, and then started up with the insects. Our stone age ancestors in colder climates did eat a lot of meat and not much else because there wasn't much else to eat.
Although if it really makes people happier, we low carb people can always say we're following a modified Inuit diet, which is where modern very low carb diets have a lot of their basis.
Have you ever looked up the lifespan of the Inuits? You might want to do so. Before exposure to white man's food, their lifespan was about 47 years. Now it is between 64 and 67 years.
What the article said was the only thing we know for CERTAIN was that from Hominids to Anatomically Modern Humans, the most common food was fruits, nuts, vegetables, and insects. Meat was extremely rare, and although there were some peoples who ate a lot of meat (such as the Inuits) there was no indication these people thrived any better then than they do today.0 -
A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
I used to eat a lot of insects - I love chapulines con limon
Thailand dishes, yummm!
And several French cheeses that "move" on their own. Fantastic!
The article seems interesting, thanks OP!
According to the article, that was probably authentic Paleo.
Well, I would eat that with tortillas and maybe a tequila. Cebollitas and a good Tampiquena (meat, mole, quesadillas, rice and beans). Not really paleo but really good food.
I would kill an Australopithecus for a really good Tampiquena.
The best Tomme cheese I have tasted had acari. Love my Tomme (see my diary just yesterday...)0 -
A few generations ago, the "Paleo Diet" was just called "eating."
Really? You consume a lot of insects?
It seems we are overrun with people who are too lazy to read the article.
Reading an article typically requires a link that works. More important, however, when you're sufficiently educated, you don't need to be spoonfed your science by popular magazines like "Scientific American."
I just tried the link. It works. Here it is again:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/07/23/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/
Also, I read other journals such as PNAS, PLoS ONE, Science, and Nature, among many many others. SA's articles are written by the top people in their field, and would generally be classified as "Review of the Literature" by some of the other journals.
I finished reading the article and found it meandering, patronizing, and in many places, an example of lazy scholarship. Parenthetically, I have no dog in this fight; I don't eat "Paleo," and I'm not a vegan.
The first thing any critical thinker with even a modicum of meaningful professional experience does before considering the value of a scientific source is to consider whether it may be subject to funding, ideological, or political bias. I'd only note that the author of this article appears to be a member of a "raw food" vegan meetup group. http://www.meetup.com/RawLasVegas/members/54092372/
With the foregoing in mind, the article raises a lot of obvious questions:
1. What do the Neanderthals, Denisovans, and us all have in common, and what happened to all of our vegetarian relatives throughout evolution?
2. Do the guts of chimpanzees and orangutans have zonulin?
3. Did our guts shorten compared to other apes and did we end up with larger brains? If so, is it likely that these things occurred as a result of eating more calorie dense foods or less calorie dense foods? Is there a more plausible theory than the so-called "Expensive Tissue Hypothesis?"
4. Is our masticatory systems the same as chimps and orangutans?
5. Has there been any credible challenge to the "Man the Hunter" theory that didn't involve eating copious meat?0
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