PAPER TOPIC: Affirmative Action
Replies
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By protecting liberty and personal property. Nothing more. There will always be socioeconomic inequality. The role of government is absolutely not to to determine adequate levels of social equality and correct them through social justice programs and legislation.
Very well said. Thank you for giving me your perspective. The most coherent opinion here!
this is false. capitalism creates socioeconomic inequalities. and the role of government can serve to correct injustices that they create.
and don't get me started on "liberty" and personal property. how both of those notions are acquired is the sole premise of oppression. property is and has always been theft and a social construction.
100% wrong. Read the writings of Bastiat, he gives the best rebuttal to this illogical line of thinking.
Any conceptual rights beyond natural rights are a complete fabrication.
Your Marxist/Socialist/Collectivist beliefs (whatever communal/societal **** you believe in) rests on a bed of contradictory assumptions.0 -
i think both of you should read: http://www.feministezine.com/feminist/modern/WhitePrivilege-MalePrivilege.html
and that was the one website that didn't pdf it, or i would have linked to another one, so don't slam feminism
Three generations ago my great grandfather came to the US. He did not get anything from the government and clearly (my last name might be a clue) was not considered a "priveleged white male". My grandfather left school before he was ten and did not know how to read but made sure his sons valued an education (he did not have a daughter or she would have been taught the same thing). The government did nothing to assist either my uncle or my dad (neither did being a "white male"). My uncle was made it through medical school with his father's financial assistance, a father who never made more than $4.50/hr. My dad graduated college, was accepted into medical school, dental school and law school. He had a family though and chose not to finish his education and went into construction - being a white male had nothing to do with his staying employed when everyone else would get laid off during the various housing crisis over the past 40 years, it was his ability to get the job done faster with less waste that kept him going when everyone else went home.
I went to a law school that had a 50% ratio of men to women. White male privilege did nothing for me. I was the one that got the grades, did the work, and paid for the loans to get my education - not the government, not a rich family member, and certainly not because I am white (unless people look at my name and start questioning). Even though I graduated in the top two percent from college I still had to pay for my law degree myself, no grants to "assist" me and I am just fine with that. I work in a field that is not populated by the "White" male in an area that "whites" are a minority and have been successful because I get the job done.0 -
As a person who's profession requires me to depend on the person beside me to keep me alive, I'd prefer the best person get the job and not someone hired to fulfill a quota.
i agree, it is too bad that there are marginalized communities who live in shelters that actually have a medical degree.
I would respond to this, but you used big words and now I'm confused.
Not really...but I'm in Canada and I don't know what you mean.
i'm in canada too....and i work in a shelter, so it happens here. it isn't something people see everyday.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.0 -
i think both of you should read: http://www.feministezine.com/feminist/modern/WhitePrivilege-MalePrivilege.html
and that was the one website that didn't pdf it, or i would have linked to another one, so don't slam feminism
Three generations ago my great grandfather came to the US. He did not get anything from the government and clearly (my last name might be a clue) was not considered a "priveleged white male". My grandfather left school before he was ten and did not know how to read but made sure his sons valued an education (he did not have a daughter or she would have been taught the same thing). The government did nothing to assist either my uncle or my dad (neither did being a "white male"). My uncle was made it through medical school with his father's financial assistance, a father who never made more than $4.50/hr. My dad graduated college, was accepted into medical school, dental school and law school. He had a family though and chose not to finish his education and went into construction - being a white male had nothing to do with his staying employed when everyone else would get laid off during the various housing crisis over the past 40 years, it was his ability to get the job done faster with less waste that kept him going when everyone else went home.
I went to a law school that had a 50% ratio of men to women. White male privilege did nothing for me. I was the one that got the grades, did the work, and paid for the loans to get my education - not the government, not a rich family member, and certainly not because I am white (unless people look at my name and start questioning). Even though I graduated in the top two percent from college I still had to pay for my law degree myself, no grants to "assist" me and I am just fine with that. I work in a field that is not populated by the "White" male in an area that "whites" are a minority and have been successful because I get the job done.
that is awesome, but it is still worth reading. i just think it happens to be invaluable info.0 -
I'm totally against race based affirmative action.... as a white person... that's right I admit it.... I'm white... .I was raised by my parents to be tolerant of all races..... and I grew up believing that all races are equal. fundamentally I still believe that
... however... as an adult.... I am so sick and tired of having racism shoved down my throat....I am sick of making allowances for people because of their race and culture.... I am tired of having to look the other way and turn the other cheek when people of a different race or god forbid religion are just flat out RUDE.... now I know that white people are rude too... but when a white person makes the slightest misstep they are castigated as being racist to the point where it is no longer safe to even make THIS statement..... someone somewhere will have already decided based on what I just wrote that I too am a racist.....
I'm not racist I believe that every individual on earth has the capacity be either good or bad....and I believe that people should be judged on who they are , how they behave and what they think..... and that should be in all situations... whether it's employment, education or social situations.... and I'm tired of people using this as an excuse to get benefits that they simply are not entitled to.....
we will NOT be equal until we ACCEPT that we are, as individuals and as a society as a whole... it cannot be legislated....
ducks :flowerforyou:
This. I complete agree with this statement.
I too, completely agree.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".0 -
Here is my comments: First we have to assess the success of the program. We know that Government is not able to conduct a successful business, and that's where the problem begins.
Ideally employers should be able to hire the best person for the job. When government starts to dictate how an employer is to hire someone, a change takes place.
the question the is: Is affirmative action a form of public assistance or a form of government control?
There are bigger issues than the obvious ones. There are also lost of people doing jobs that they are not qualify to do.
AS you continue your research I hope that you can remain subjective about the issue.
That's all!!0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
That isn't racism. The root cause of all of this is people with your absurdly confused logic. You have no concept of rights, merely some distorted sense of social justice. It honestly makes me sick.
please pinpoint exactly where that person was racist.
I don't think you know what oppression means. You use the term FAR too loosely. Oppression quite literally means a right is being violated. Being held back because of socioeconomics factors does mean personal rights have been violated. On the other hand, lifting them up (affirmative action and social justice) ALWAYS violates the direct personal rights of others.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
now you just sound ridiculous... there are hundreds of millions of people who believe that myself included.. does that make me racist?? no.0 -
Where people bristle regarding affirmative action is the perception that hard working, highly qualified individuals are turned down for a less qualified candidate, because the virtue of American thought is that we live in a meritocracy, and merit should be merited. This thought does not take human nature into consideration. American idealism is meritocratic. American realism is that the system is based on nepotism. If who you know didn't matter in the American workplace, networking wouldnt be so popular. Affirmative action (in theory anyway), eases the nepotism, and invites the great guy to the lunch table.
I agree with most of your post except for this. Yes, who someone knows may get their foot in the door but they will not be highly sucessful without drive, ambition, and talent. One example I think of is a friend I went to college with who got his first job with a company in part because of who his dad was. His older brother interviewed with the same company and did not get a job. The one who did was successful and now has his own company. His brother did not have the same drive and also has not been successful. Yes, nepotism is around but it doesn't help the success of a company or organisation.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
That isn't racism. The root cause of all of this is people with your absurdly confused logic. You have no concept of rights, merely some distorted sense of social justice. It honestly makes me sick.
please pinpoint exactly where that person was racist.
likening affirmative action to: "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
"If you want something in life, you go out and get it. "
"I think people should get what they earn, nothing more."
these concepts suggest that minorities are able to just work harder, and they will get everything they "deserve", it is so wrong, and so false, and in the end racist. you can work as hard as you like, but if you are an oppressed class, your work will rarely get you to the same place on the spectrum as someone from a more privileged class
and it is ok that my comments make you sick, because it makes me just as sick to see people complain about the "race card", when they clearly have no idea how racist the notion of a 'race card' is.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
now you just sound ridiculous... there are hundreds of millions of people who believe that myself included.. does that make me racist?? no.
it actually does. we all have a little of every 'ism' in us, but becoming self-aware of why you think things like that is the first step.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
That isn't racism. The root cause of all of this is people with your absurdly confused logic. You have no concept of rights, merely some distorted sense of social justice. It honestly makes me sick.
please pinpoint exactly where that person was racist.
likening affirmative action to: "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
"If you want something in life, you go out and get it. "
"I think people should get what they earn, nothing more."
these concepts suggest that minorities are able to just work harder, and they will get everything they "deserve", it is so wrong, and so false, and in the end racist. you can work as hard as you like, but if you are an oppressed class, your work will rarely get you to the same place on the spectrum as someone from a more privileged class
and it is ok that my comments make you sick, because it makes me just as sick to see people complain about the "race card", when they clearly have no idea how racist the notion of a 'race card' is.
There is no such thing as an oppressed class. merely oppressed individuals. And these individuals you are talking about are not actually oppressed. Their rights are not being transgressed upon. I see you bought that Proletariat hogwash hook line and sinker. It's a fabrication.
Anyways, I broke my cardinal rule again. never argue with internet Marxists.0 -
where is my dwight shrute 'false' pic again....Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
That isn't racism. The root cause of all of this is people with your absurdly confused logic. You have no concept of rights, merely some distorted sense of social justice. It honestly makes me sick.
please pinpoint exactly where that person was racist.
likening affirmative action to: "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
"If you want something in life, you go out and get it. "
"I think people should get what they earn, nothing more."
these concepts suggest that minorities are able to just work harder, and they will get everything they "deserve", it is so wrong, and so false, and in the end racist. you can work as hard as you like, but if you are an oppressed class, your work will rarely get you to the same place on the spectrum as someone from a more privileged class
and it is ok that my comments make you sick, because it makes me just as sick to see people complain about the "race card", when they clearly have no idea how racist the notion of a 'race card' is.
There is no such thing as an oppressed class. merely oppressed individuals. And these individuals you are talking about are not actually oppressed. Their rights are not being transgressed upon. I see you bought that Proletariat hogwash hook line and sinker. It's a fabrication.0 -
likening affirmative action to: "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
"If you want something in life, you go out and get it. "
"I think people should get what they earn, nothing more."
these concepts suggest that minorities are able to just work harder, and they will get everything they "deserve", it is so wrong, and so false, and in the end racist. you can work as hard as you like, but if you are an oppressed class, your work will rarely get you to the same place on the spectrum as someone from a more privileged class
and it is ok that my comments make you sick, because it makes me just as sick to see people complain about the "race card", when they clearly have no idea how racist the notion of a 'race card' is.
you are wrong.
il just leave it at that.0 -
Affirmative action is like saying "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
People use it as a crutch, or an excuse.
If you want something in life, you go out and get it.
Affirmative action, in my opinion, breeds the idea/thought that you are 'owed' something because of the colour of your skin, your gender or whatever... which in turn breeds laziness and furthers prejudices and racism.
I think people should get what they earn, nothing more.
this is a perfect example of how prevalent racism is today. i could report this for racism, but i know that the moderators (here and any website) would just be like, "duhhhh, how is that racist", people don't generally get what privlege and oppression are because they have grown up, generation, through generation, not knowing, thinking they "worked harder than everybody else".
That isn't racism. The root cause of all of this is people with your absurdly confused logic. You have no concept of rights, merely some distorted sense of social justice. It honestly makes me sick.
please pinpoint exactly where that person was racist.
likening affirmative action to: "Hey you need special privileges because you aren't good enough to make it on your own."
"If you want something in life, you go out and get it. "
"I think people should get what they earn, nothing more."
these concepts suggest that minorities are able to just work harder, and they will get everything they "deserve", it is so wrong, and so false, and in the end racist. you can work as hard as you like, but if you are an oppressed class, your work will rarely get you to the same place on the spectrum as someone from a more privileged class
and it is ok that my comments make you sick, because it makes me just as sick to see people complain about the "race card", when they clearly have no idea how racist the notion of a 'race card' is.
There is no such thing as an oppressed class. merely oppressed individuals. And these individuals you are talking about are not actually oppressed. Their rights are not being transgressed upon. I see you bought that Proletariat hogwash hook line and sinker. It's a fabrication.
Anyways, I broke my cardinal rule again. never argue with internet Marxists.
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.0 -
If you have what you need, then you would put out effort because you don't want to live a boring life. When I say "need," I'm referring to the basics that anyone in a functioning society should have access to: food, water, shelter, healthcare, education. Most people wouldn't be satisfied with only that, but everyone should have at least that.
If you don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from (or when), you can focus on building your skills and following your own natural talents and passions. Do you really believe that no one dedicates their lives to a career simply because they have a passion for it, that getting rich is the only reason we have the drive for innovation? You can't stop a writer from writing, or a musician from playing, or a doctor from healing the sick; it's who they are and what they want to do.
If someone is willing to settle for the bare minimum, how does that have anything to do with you? Would your dreams and accomplishments be somehow less important or meaningful just because other people wouldn't be forced into homelessness? Would it really be so awful if everyone had a roof over their head and food on the table and treatment for their illnesses?
Example: my dad had a business partner who did not work hard, was not nearly as talented, and at the end of each month cost the company more money than he earned but he was more than happy to continue doing as he always did as long as he got his half of the profits my dad brought in by working 12 hour plus days six days a week. This lasted until there wasn't enough profits for two families and the business dissolved. That is a microcosm of human nature. As an aside my dad wasn't in it to get rich but he couldn't continue to support a profit loss and still feed his family. If the government, however, made sure the "partner" got what he needed the company may have lasted longer since they would have been using money from a larger pool of people but eventually the return would have been reduced more and more, slowed down only by the increased effort of my dad... certainly not that of his partner. So, why should my dad work harder and harder to support someone who had little interest putting out the effort necessary to make a profit?0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
Sorry I don't let anecdotal evidence and emotion override logic and philosophy.0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
Sorry I don't let anecdotal evidence and emotion override logic and philosophy.
what about hard, quantitative research0 -
Where people bristle regarding affirmative action is the perception that hard working, highly qualified individuals are turned down for a less qualified candidate, because the virtue of American thought is that we live in a meritocracy, and merit should be merited. This thought does not take human nature into consideration. American idealism is meritocratic. American realism is that the system is based on nepotism. If who you know didn't matter in the American workplace, networking wouldnt be so popular. Affirmative action (in theory anyway), eases the nepotism, and invites the great guy to the lunch table.
I agree with most of your post except for this. Yes, who someone knows may get their foot in the door but they will not be highly sucessful without drive, ambition, and talent. One example I think of is a friend I went to college with who got his first job with a company in part because of who his dad was. His older brother interviewed with the same company and did not get a job. The one who did was successful and now has his own company. His brother did not have the same drive and also has not been successful. Yes, nepotism is around but it doesn't help the success of a company or organisation.
I agree - you have to do a good job on some level to move forward. Affirmative action and nepotism serve the beneficiary the same way - to get their foot in the door.0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
Sorry I don't let anecdotal evidence and emotion override logic and philosophy.
what about hard, quantitative research
Empirical studies that show we are racists and that these marginalized victims have basic rights which have been violated? I'd like to see those studies, seeing as they would be the first of their kind in world history. Quantitative research proving or disproving modern political and economic philosophy as well as Aristotelian and Lockean thought would be groundbreaking, but impossible.0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
I have spent time in disadvantaged communities (and have lived that life style myself at times in the past)... In addition, I have been around and had to deal with people who are classified as economically disadvantaged. This is often (not always) in association with a single parent household, where the parent is unemployed, under employed, or working in a base paying job. What I see over and over, especially in households where the parent is unemployed is a child who is not interested in school in the first place and there is nothing the government can do to change that lack of desire... Unfortunately, the interests often are in areas that are self destructive and criminal in nature.0 -
Your dad had to work harder because he chose to go into business with a bad partner. Some people suck at their jobs, some businesses fail; that's true in any system that allows for private enterprise. But to my point, someone picking the wrong business partner isn't going to pay for it with their house, food security, or life. Under a purely capitalist system, losing the business means you lose everything, it means going destitute, it means actual danger for your family. When the concept of a safety net is considered wrong and unfair, a mistake like the one your dad made can destroy entire lives.If you have what you need, then you would put out effort because you don't want to live a boring life. When I say "need," I'm referring to the basics that anyone in a functioning society should have access to: food, water, shelter, healthcare, education. Most people wouldn't be satisfied with only that, but everyone should have at least that.
If you don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from (or when), you can focus on building your skills and following your own natural talents and passions. Do you really believe that no one dedicates their lives to a career simply because they have a passion for it, that getting rich is the only reason we have the drive for innovation? You can't stop a writer from writing, or a musician from playing, or a doctor from healing the sick; it's who they are and what they want to do.
If someone is willing to settle for the bare minimum, how does that have anything to do with you? Would your dreams and accomplishments be somehow less important or meaningful just because other people wouldn't be forced into homelessness? Would it really be so awful if everyone had a roof over their head and food on the table and treatment for their illnesses?
Example: my dad had a business partner who did not work hard, was not nearly as talented, and at the end of each month cost the company more money than he earned but he was more than happy to continue doing as he always did as long as he got his half of the profits my dad brought in by working 12 hour plus days six days a week. This lasted until there wasn't enough profits for two families and the business dissolved. That is a microcosm of human nature. As an aside my dad wasn't in it to get rich but he couldn't continue to support a profit loss and still feed his family. If the government, however, made sure the "partner" got what he needed the company may have lasted longer since they would have been using money from a larger pool of people but eventually the return would have been reduced more and more, slowed down only by the increased effort of my dad... certainly not that of his partner. So, why should my dad work harder and harder to support someone who had little interest putting out the effort necessary to make a profit?
Alternatively, if the dissolution of a business doesn't mean losing access to food or housing or medicine, it actually encourages risk-taking and innovation in business. There is a difference between losing the business and losing everything. Someone else's bad acts will not mean the destruction of your entire life and that of your family.
I don't advocate pure Communism (as in government ownership of everything) any more than I advocate pure capitalism (as in pure private and market control). The bare minimum should be guaranteed, and whatever extra you desire would be up to you to work toward and get for yourself.0 -
I agree - you have to do a good job on some level to move forward. Affirmative action and nepotism serve the beneficiary the same way - to get their foot in the door.
Neopotism that got the foot in the door will generally kick you back out the same door in a case where you do not perform. I suspect affirmative action does not have the same track record of termination for lack of ability and performance.0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
I have spent time in disadvantaged communities (and have lived that life style myself at times in the past)... In addition, I have been around and had to deal with people who are classified as economically disadvantaged. This is often (not always) in association with a single parent household, where the parent is unemployed, under employed, or working in a base paying job. What I see over and over, especially in households where the parent is unemployed is a child who is not interested in school in the first place and there is nothing the government can do to change that lack of desire... Unfortunately, the interests often are in areas that are self destructive and criminal in nature.
if you notice the pattern of these children being raised in an impoverished environment inadvertently turning to extralegal activities then how can you honestly believe that the government cannot change this. If X, then Y. Change X and you have a shot at changing Y. You won't ALWAYS be successful but if given X it is consistently the case that Y occurs with great regularity then why not change X?0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
I have spent time in disadvantaged communities (and have lived that life style myself at times in the past)... In addition, I have been around and had to deal with people who are classified as economically disadvantaged. This is often (not always) in association with a single parent household, where the parent is unemployed, under employed, or working in a base paying job. What I see over and over, especially in households where the parent is unemployed is a child who is not interested in school in the first place and there is nothing the government can do to change that lack of desire... Unfortunately, the interests often are in areas that are self destructive and criminal in nature.
if you notice the pattern of these children being raised in an impoverished environment inadvertently turning to extralegal activities then how can you honestly believe that the government cannot change this. If X, then Y. Change X and you have a shot at changing Y. You won't ALWAYS be successful but if given X it is consistently the case that Y occurs with great regularity then why not change X?
Maybe because changing X has disastrous unintended consequences, violates certain clauses of the constitution, and restricts the freedom of everyone else?0 -
Ever Read Lipsitz's "Possessive Investment in Whiteness" ...great read. I'd highly recommend it.0
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Your dad had to work harder because he chose to go into business with a bad partner. Some people suck at their jobs, some businesses fail; that's true in any system that allows for private enterprise. But to my point, someone picking the wrong business partner isn't going to pay for it with their house, food security, or life. Under a purely capitalist system, losing the business means you lose everything, it means going destitute, it means actual danger for your family. When the concept of a safety net is considered wrong and unfair, a mistake like the one your dad made can destroy entire lives.
Alternatively, if the dissolution of a business doesn't mean losing access to food or housing or medicine, it actually encourages risk-taking and innovation in business. There is a difference between losing the business and losing everything. Someone else's bad acts will not mean the destruction of your entire life and that of your family.
I don't advocate pure Communism (as in government ownership of everything) any more than I advocate pure capitalism (as in pure private and market control). The bare minimum should be guaranteed, and whatever extra you desire would be up to you to work toward and get for yourself.
My dad was very good at his job but not the best judge of charactor. He did lose his house (and business) eventually when he met up with someone who didn't pay for a number of houses that he built and strung him along for a year. I happen to know what it is like growing up without a safety net, no health insurance, no dental insurance, and no public benefits. The one time my dad asked for help because a general contractor paid him with a bad check the government said that he made too much (not recognizing that he did not actually get paid).
Still, please show me any studies where the majority of people who have every need taken care of, whether they work or not, put in the effort of a true capitalist business person who is starting their own business. Sane people will not do this generally because it is not in their nature. The majority of people do not perform. You see this in the education system. I lived off of it in college where I knew that very few people out there were putting out there best effort. I got rewarded with A's and most were happy getting C's as long as they got to socialize all week and party on the weekends.0 -
you should spend sometime helping youth in a more marginalized community, maybe it will help you understand. or at a food bank. or abused women's shelter. or a walk-through the financial districts.....oh wait, that part will probably make you think how hard all those white suits worked for their cushy desk jobs.
I have spent time in disadvantaged communities (and have lived that life style myself at times in the past)... In addition, I have been around and had to deal with people who are classified as economically disadvantaged. This is often (not always) in association with a single parent household, where the parent is unemployed, under employed, or working in a base paying job. What I see over and over, especially in households where the parent is unemployed is a child who is not interested in school in the first place and there is nothing the government can do to change that lack of desire... Unfortunately, the interests often are in areas that are self destructive and criminal in nature.
if you notice the pattern of these children being raised in an impoverished environment inadvertently turning to extralegal activities then how can you honestly believe that the government cannot change this. If X, then Y. Change X and you have a shot at changing Y. You won't ALWAYS be successful but if given X it is consistently the case that Y occurs with great regularity then why not change X?
Maybe because changing X has disastrous unintended consequences, violates certain clauses of the constitution, and restricts the freedom of everyone else?
How would changing the system (whereby unemployed, underemployed, or simply low paid single parent homes are raising children who disproportionately subscribe to ideologies/perspectives/life avenues that will keep them impoverished and/or imprisoned) infringe on anyone's freedom?0
This discussion has been closed.
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