Convince me (or not) that Paleo makes sense

Akimajuktuq

Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry.

Yeah, I thought that too after seeing 20 years worth of magazine articles and talk shows talking about eating your emotions and how you have to get in touch with your feelings and all that to lose weight. For ME -- not you or anyone else -- that was a bunch of BS. Within about three weeks of cutting out grains and eating a low carb, high fat whole foods based diet all of my "emotional" problems with food disappeared.

I imagine there's a lot of people out there who think they have some sort of eating disorder that don't realize the problem is a physical one brought on by the food they're eating and not psychological at all.

Yes, yes, yes! But supposedly the health improvements are imaginary. Whatever! Goodbye craving, binging, depression, anxiety... but now I might be "orthorexic" LOL.

kms1320

Is there benefit or room for a modified version? Yes.

I don't follow Paleo, but I do appreciate the concept of less processed food, more protein, more fiber, and less refined carbs.

Does that mean I don't eat processed foods? No... It just means I eat less of them than I did previously.

I don't think that food that comes from a powder is ever good for you. So there are some aspects of Paleo that are worth considering.

Exactly, I thought "Paleo" was just interchangeable for "common sense" when I first heard about it. There is nothing revolutionary about the Paleo diet, just people promoting common sense.

btw: I do think powders can be good.. protein shakes.. creatine.. etc..

robmcd88

I tend to defer to life expectancy as a guide to whose got it right or not. Now, give me Methuselah’s diet and I’ll be all on it.

kms1320

Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry.

Yeah, I thought that too after seeing 20 years worth of magazine articles and talk shows talking about eating your emotions and how you have to get in touch with your feelings and all that to lose weight. For ME -- not you or anyone else -- that was a bunch of BS. Within about three weeks of cutting out grains and eating a low carb, high fat whole foods based diet all of my "emotional" problems with food disappeared.

I imagine there's a lot of people out there who think they have some sort of eating disorder that don't realize the problem is a physical one brought on by the food they're eating and not psychological at all.

Yes, yes, yes! But supposedly the health improvements are imaginary. Whatever! Goodbye craving, binging, depression, anxiety... but now I might be "orthorexic" LOL.

No idea what orthorexic is, but a dear friend of mine fought with depression, anxiety, and being severely bipolar for years and it cost him his family. He participated in a Mayo clinic of Boston study where they changed his diet instead of giving him medicine to manage his mental health. It's working better than the medicine ever did, without the side effects.

WendyTerry420

I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.

^^^ This

I left the church where I was raised for this very reason. No one tells me what I can or can't put in my own body. :drinker:

PhilyPhresh

I tend to defer to life expectancy as a guide to whose got it right or not. Now, give me Methuselah’s diet and I’ll be all on it.

WendyTerry420

I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.

i eat meat and some type of veggie (not alwasy fresh)every day, it's fairly cheap and sustainable.

I think paleo people are crazy, though

Beans, beans, the musical fruit.......

sjohnny

I am against it. Why? Because it is not a diet that is environmentally sustainable in a world with 7 billion people. It's also expensive - beans are a big part of my diet because I can't afford to eat meat and fresh vegetables every day. Finally, I would never join a religion or a diet that does not allow me to eat all the wonderful foods on earth. If I was the kind of person who could just give up cheese, pie, biscuits, waffles, etc., I probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I would rather die than go Paleo.

^^^ This

I left the church where I was raised for this very reason. No one tells me what I can or can't put in my own body. :drinker:

I wouldn't belong to a religion that restricted my diet. I just don't want to get into heaven that way.

PhilyPhresh

I wouldn't belong to a religion that restricted my diet. I just don't want to get into heaven that way.

Did your church disagree with your apparent love for the "stout" of one of the brothers of the "unholy trinity"?

05saleengirl

I agree with Paleo's focus on whole and minimally processed foods. My problem with it are:

(1) The exclude some foods that are perfectly healthy, such as potatoes, rice, corn, beans and dairy.
(2) If I'm eating 80-90% healthy and covering all my bases, there's no evidence that having some ice cream or cake once in a while is going to harm me in any measurable fashion.

Agreed! Same here. I've read from some people how following Paleo helps them with autoimminue issues, allergies, etc. Supossedly it has various health benefits. I myself generally follow it, but not to a T either. I generally don't eat sugar, only the occasional treat. Sometimes I eat beans and rice. I do not cut out dairy either. Some have though and feel better without it. Again, it goes back to internal health issues. I think if someone has a lot of "gut" issues, then Paleo could help them sort it out and find out what foods are causing those issues.

Drussander

Here is from the Paleohacks site (which was taken from yet another site) as to what paleo man actually ate:

"Paleolithic diets necessarily included things that most Americans (who are the primary consumers of this woo) wouldn't touch with a 10-foot squeamish pole. Next time you meet a paleo, ask him or her if they eat:

Small game - really small game - like rats, mice and squirrels.

Unpleasant plants, pre-selective breeding. Sour and bitter tastes existed in many plant foods before human interference. Although paleolithic man probably would avoid downright foul-tasting (and likely poisonous) food, the plants that they ate were hardly nice, friendly spinach or carrots. Many modern vegetables are more pleasant mutations of less pleasant or even poisonous plants such as the genuses solanum (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers) and prunus (almonds, peaches, apricots, plums, cherries). Safe varieties were likely discovered by just eating them and hoping it didn't kill anybody. In addition, paleolithic people are known to have eaten woody stems, stripped bark, and pith: things suspiciously absent from the modern paleo diet that probably contributed to the extreme wear and tear on their teeth observed in fossil individuals.

Organ meat - a critical part of paleolithic man's diet. Does the average paleo dieter eat brains, tongues, stomach, eyes, liver, or kidneys? All of these brought important nutrition to our "healthy" ancestors that doesn't exist in white meat and cuts of grazing beef.

Insects, especially grubs and large beetles, including roaches.

Lizards, newts, frogs, turtles and anything else that had meat on its bones.

Grains and other starches such as sorghum, wild corn (in both North and South American), potatoes (South America), and a large variety of seeds. Evidence for consumption of legumes such as wild lentils has also been found, along with stone tools associated with processing them."

Marketing aside, this all doesn't mean that the modern paleo diet isn't healthy or doesn't help people.

californiagirl2012

Hi All,

I have never really understood the 'paleo' basics. Besides the fact that semantically the diet makes little sense I want the reason why things like legumes, peanut butter, potatoes, dairy are off limits. I can go with the idea that gains aren't the purest form of what we should be eating (even if I don't adhere and eat whole grains) and even dairy to some extent but I struggle intuitively with the other stuff.

I also am not looking for "I eat paleo and feel great" but more concrete reasons why physically we as a species should not consume these items. If you tell me it has a certain effect on the body I would like a medical study I can look at to learn more.

Finally, I often get the impression Paleo is a bit 'all or nothing'. There are certain non-Paelo items I will never give up. Full stop. Is there benefit/room for a modified version?

Any diet that says some foods are good and some are bad sets you up for emotional food issues bordering on being emotionally disturbed over time. I've tried something similar called the Makers diet, along with a long list of diets I have tried. I spent 15 years doing the yo-yo with all the various diets.

Low fat high carb, Slim-Fast, Weight Watchers, Atkins, Organic, Weston Price Diet, The Schwarzbein Principle, Eat Fat Lose Fat, The Ultimate PH Solution, The Makers Diet, A friends diet from a personal trainer/dietician

I finally just got sick of it all and made up my own diet with healthy foods I enjoy and smaller portions.

All that matters is calories. A healthy balanced diet within a calorie budget for a deficit that is right for YOU is all that matters for weight loss. Don't make it complicated.

To say eat more is wrong.

To say eat less is wrong.

To find the exact calories needed for YOU to be in a healthy sustainable calorie deficit is the right answer. Wait, if you need to adjust by 100 do it, wait, adjust, wait, adjust, wait. The tortoise wins this race.

Some people can eat at a big calorie deficit and some people can't. Everyone is different. Even a small calorie deficit puts your body in a state of flux with hormones as such, add a new workout routine, and those will make more spikes. This is a huge waiting game and requires much patience. Add in emotional eating issues and then you have more complications.

Also people play mental accounting games with calories just like with finances. Make steps to make sure you are making accurate measurements. Packaged foods can have MORE than they say but not less (they get in trouble if less so they would rather error with MORE).

If you typically intake sodium at a certain rate your body adjusts, but if you make a sudden change then you will see a spike.

Exercise is for making your lean body mass pretty (especially lifting weights) for when the fat is gone. Losing fat with no muscle is ugly and cardio alone will not make you pretty. You cannot out exercise too many calories.

AlabasterVerve

Yes, yes, yes! But supposedly the health improvements are imaginary. Whatever! Goodbye craving, binging, depression, anxiety... but now I might be "orthorexic" LOL.

I actually went on a low carb diet after four months of eating the healthy whole grain, lots of fruits & vegetables lean meat diet that's recommended by Harvard School of Public Health. I was constantly hungry eating that way and eating massive amounts of low calorie fruits and veg in order to try and still be under my calories but I was losing weight and felt much better than I did before -- if asked, I'd have said I felt great.

Looking back I didn't feel great at all, not compared to how I feel now. Physical symptoms have completely disappeared for me and my husband -- this is not my imagination or a placebo effect. I had no idea that eating this way would clear up problems I didn't realize I had until they were gone. I was just trying a low carb diet in an effort to ward off diabetes, heart disease and the cancer that runs in our families.

I'll never go back to eating the sensible, healthy whole grain, everything in moderation diet again.

Dave198lbs

[
Any diet that says some foods are good and some are bad sets you up for emotional food issues bordering on being emotionally disturbed over time.

if you start out as an emotional waste basket, then MAYBE

but these kind of statements are just pure horseshiit

bcattoes

while never, ever being hungry (unless it's real hunger).

I don't understand this remark? Why would your hunger be more real than anyone else's? Are you refering to cravings?

I'm refering to the constant struggle with hunger, cravings, binging that occurs when I eat a "normal" diet. I mean that I am only hungry now when my body really needs food, and then it's not uncomfortable and I have no need to over eat.

I can't count the posts that I've read to the effect of "help me, I'm always hungry" or "I can't stop eating", whatever. Yup, that was me, BEFORE.

Interesting. Binge eating is a psychological disorder rather than a physical one. I've never been a binge eater, but I'm sure people who are binging realize, at least on some level, that they are not really hungry. It is interesting to me that you chose such a restrictive diet that would possibly meet the criteria for orthorexia, another psychological disorder, to cure your binges.

I don't mean that as in insult. I'm glad you found a way to get healthy, but it would be an interesting research topic, don't you think?

Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be long before someone tried to throw the imaginary illness of "orthorexia" in my face. I am nowhere near as strict with my food as I should be exactly because I have no such disorder. I don't think the disorder exists but someone with OCD could certainly manifest the traits. No I do not have OCD. lol So, wanting to eat healthy to be healthy and to help my child be healthy is orthorexic???

If binge eating is only a psychological disorder, why was it only finally resolved by eating a certain way? Do you think I didn't try WW and all the high carb/low fat recommendations a thousand times? Also, my extreme depression and anxiety have been remedied as well. And a huge long list of physical health problems too.

I knew that I was over-eating and couldn't possibly need more food but I have done lots of research and there are processes in the body that when damaged by poor nutrition don't work properly. Hunger signals is just one of those processes.

Yes, further research (that isn't adulterated by a financial agenda of any kind) is definitely needed, but research does include real-life experience of real people. Research isn't just done in a lab. Do you really think that agri-business, the health industry, government agencies, food processors, etc really want us to stop eating wheat, corn, soy, etc? Yeah, not likely.

I did not mean to throw anything in your face. I was merely pointing out that the "rules" of the Paleo diet could meet the criteria for orthorexia, which is not yet a recognized disorder. I apologize for the remark and won't belabor the point since clearly it upsets you. It was just something that popped into my mind as interesting.

But I do not see how the fact that you were able to stop binge eating and rid yourself of the health problems it created through a restrictive diet means that the binge eating was not a psychological problem. Doesn't the very fact that you stopped eating <whatever> when you chose to prove that you were never physically compelled to binge on it? And if not a physical or psychological compulsion, then what?

Just like chronic undereating, chronic overeating is surely a psychological problem.

meshashesha2012

no need for convincing. just try it for yourself for a few weeks. if it works for you then go with it. if it doesnt then there ya go.

morgansmom02

Doesn't paleo let you eat all the red meat you want? Wouldn't this make your cholesterol very high?

jofjltncb6

Here is from the Paleohacks site (which was taken from yet another site) as to what paleo man actually ate:

"Paleolithic diets necessarily included things that most Americans (who are the primary consumers of this woo) wouldn't touch with a 10-foot squeamish pole. Next time you meet a paleo, ask him or her if they eat:

Small game - really small game - like rats, mice and squirrels.

Unpleasant plants, pre-selective breeding. Sour and bitter tastes existed in many plant foods before human interference. Although paleolithic man probably would avoid downright foul-tasting (and likely poisonous) food, the plants that they ate were hardly nice, friendly spinach or carrots. Many modern vegetables are more pleasant mutations of less pleasant or even poisonous plants such as the genuses solanum (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers) and prunus (almonds, peaches, apricots, plums, cherries). Safe varieties were likely discovered by just eating them and hoping it didn't kill anybody. In addition, paleolithic people are known to have eaten woody stems, stripped bark, and pith: things suspiciously absent from the modern paleo diet that probably contributed to the extreme wear and tear on their teeth observed in fossil individuals.

Organ meat - a critical part of paleolithic man's diet. Does the average paleo dieter eat brains, tongues, stomach, eyes, liver, or kidneys? All of these brought important nutrition to our "healthy" ancestors that doesn't exist in white meat and cuts of grazing beef.

Insects, especially grubs and large beetles, including roaches.

Lizards, newts, frogs, turtles and anything else that had meat on its bones.

Grains and other starches such as sorghum, wild corn (in both North and South American), potatoes (South America), and a large variety of seeds. Evidence for consumption of legumes such as wild lentils has also been found, along with stone tools associated with processing them."

Marketing aside, this all doesn't mean that the modern paleo diet isn't healthy or doesn't help people.

This would be one of the reasons I've never liked the "paleo" label. Perhaps we'll eventually move to a more accurate description. Until then, I just explain to the truly interested what I choose to eat and not to eat.

bcattoes

Yes, yes, yes! But supposedly the health improvements are imaginary. Whatever! Goodbye craving, binging, depression, anxiety... but now I might be "orthorexic" LOL.

I actually went on a low carb diet after four months of eating the healthy whole grain, lots of fruits & vegetables lean meat diet that's recommended by Harvard School of Public Health. I was constantly hungry eating that way and eating massive amounts of low calorie fruits and veg in order to try and still be under my calories but I was losing weight and felt much better than I did before -- if asked, I'd have said I felt great.

Looking back I didn't feel great at all, not compared to how I feel now. Physical symptoms have completely disappeared for me and my husband -- this is not my imagination or a placebo effect. I had no idea that eating this way would clear up problems I didn't realize I had until they were gone. I was just trying a low carb diet in an effort to ward off diabetes, heart disease and the cancer that runs in our families.

I'll never go back to eating the sensible, healthy whole grain, everything in moderation diet again.

I'm not sure you understood the HSPH recommendations if you were eating "eating massive amounts of low calorie fruits and veg in order to try and still be under my calories", though there is certainly nothing wrong with a lot of fruits and veggies if you are also getting enough fat and protein.

But your post interests me. What ailments did you have while feeling great that were only discovered after they were gone?

Drussander

This would be one of the reasons I've never liked the "paleo" label. Perhaps we'll eventually move to a more accurate description. Until then, I just explain to the truly interested what I choose to eat and not to eat.

People should eat anyway that works for them. I just think the marketing of that diet is absurd, but most marketing is, so....

I do wonder - how close is "Nourishing Traditions" to this way of eating?

http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Traditions-Challenges-Politically-Dictocrats/dp/0967089735/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350672055&sr=8-1&keywords=nourishing+traditions